Does a historic chance slip away with HRC?

[mkultra]

Heres what i mean. Ive heard a few folks mention that they are proud to see Hillary run and are voting for her becuase its a historic opportunity.

Doesn't this idea ignore that fact that voting for Obama is the same opportunity?

[papau]

1. A unity ticket would hold party together and win big-but Obama fans hate of Hill prefers loss/close

[mkultra]

6. start your own thread if you want to blabber your talking points

[EFerrari]

7. And again with the hate. n/t

[jenmito]

9. A unity ticket would bring all the baggage of the Clintons while also going against everything Obama

has campaigned for.

[slinkerwink]

12. *sigh*

[BlooInBloo]

34. Clinton = instant Democratic loss.

[mkultra]

39. her superior net-negatives make her an autolose

[RC]

2. Yes it does - Even more so, because the conventional wisdom was that

a woman would be President before a Black man.

[Mz Pip]

5. It's not like it

will never happen again. There will be other women. This isn't our last and only chance at history.

[mkultra]

10. conventional wisdom dictates real wisdom?

[rabidgeorge]

3. If Obama loses, yes

It will have been proved that Obama was unelectable, in that case.

[mkultra]

16. only HRC says hes unelectable

and shes implying that the reason is his race.

[elpresidenteAlex]

32. Hillary said he's electable

Remember? When asked if Obama could beat McCain she said, "yes, yes, yes". http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24156770/

[mkultra]

37. and of course she has said otherwise

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/04/richardson/

[jenmito]

4. It ALSO ignores Carol Mosely-Braun, but I guess she doesn't count since she

wasn't married to an ex-president. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

14. Bingo. n/t

[jenmito]

19. Thanks, sfexpat!

:hi:

[Occam Bandage]

8. I think that's awfully sexist, actually.

Do they seriously believe that no other women are capable of running for President?

[EFerrari]

11. That's not sexist, that's just short sighted. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

17. I think it is. They're saying that women are incapable of winning the Presidency,

with the single exception of HRC.

[mkultra]

18. well, not so sure about that

HRC is the first major female contender imho.

[EFerrari]

21. But they also don't believe the male candidate can win it.

And, I'll stop right there.:)

[Imagevision]

13. Maybe - maybe not, she can always run again after Obama's second term...

[TheDonkey]

15. or that there are other women that should be able to run for president again.

[Imagevision]

20. other woman, umm... that's even better yet.

[SeattleGirl]

22. Not at all. Obama is also "historic", and there will be other women

who will run in future races.

[PurityOfEssence]

23. Apples and oranges

They're both historic, but they're not the same.

[EmilyAnne]

24. Yes, a historic chance at the first female president slips away.

There is also a historic chance at having the first black president. Neither one trumps the other in significance, in my opinion, and the two candidates should be considered on their merits alone.

One day, these "firsts" will be distant memories as we will have plenty of women and minorities to choose from when electing our leaders.

[mmonk]

25. Yes but they are only looking at it from their historic perspective.

I can understand the desire but I'm miffed sometimes at the venom.

[evlbstrd]

26. Here's some history.

From Wikipedia

Year Name Party
1960 Whitney H. Slocomb Greenback Party
1964 Margaret Chase Smith Republican Party
1972 Shirley Chisholm Democratic Party
1972 Patsy Takamoto Mink Democratic Party
1972 Bella Savitzky Abzug Democratic Party
1976 Ellen McCormack Democratic Party
2000 Elizabeth Dole Republican Party
2004 Carol Moseley Braun Democratic Party
2008 Hillary Rodham Clinton Democratic Party

[rurallib]

27. There will be many more women in the future.

[juajen]

29. Yeah, but just how far did they come. You have to be twice as smart,

and twice as competent, hell, sometimes ten times as smart and ten times as competent. We will not see her ilk again, and this country will be the sorrier for it. We fight on for Hillary.

Talk about comparing apples to oranges; how many AAs are there in this country?

How many women are there in this country?

Are you brain dead, people, or DO YOU GET IT?

[davidinalameda]

35. and with African-Americans

you have to be more than twice as smart and more than twice as competent

the playing field is more level for women, especially white women, than for any African-American

[cali]

36. or you have to have been married to an ex-president, moved to NY

and become a Senator. There are plenty of other women just as smart and competent as Hillary. And if you think all women want Hilly think again. We don't. With her war vote and support and her aggressive fp stance, she does not represent me.

[emilyg]

46. I want her.

[mkultra]

38. i dont get it at all

there are 17 million black men and 99 million white women.

so either you think she "deserves" it because of these numbers or you would have to agree that Obama is MORE historic.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Perhaps. But there are others and perhaps better, who will follow.

It is ironic that the two left standing at the end were both historic firsts for our nation and that we are fighting over which breakthrough candidate will likely occupy the white house. We should be proud of our party and what it is doing to transform who we are as a people. We are the rainbow coalition of Jesse Jackson, and our time has come.

[mkultra]

40. true that

being both minorities, it makes it easier to decide based on issues rather than have identity cloud the issue(for some i guess). I personally don't vote my skin color or my sex organ so it doesn't really matter to me anyway.

[SoCalDem]

30. Not at all. In fact the NEXT female candidate will be stronger, more qualified, and

probably with her OWN accomplishments. there are MANY well-qualified governors right now, who are women.and with time, more and more women will be coming along. It takes a while to gain enough experience to run for president, and it takes more than being someone's wife. Hillary's senate seat came as a result of Bill being her husband, and her candidacy now came from the same place.

a woman who has "made it" on her own will be up to the challenge and will probably win the whole thing..

That's why I like janet Napolitano as vice president. She would only be 58 after two terms, and would be prefectly poised to run for president..after being a two term governor and two term vice president..

That's how a woman runs for and wins the presidency..

Sibelius ( a little bland for my tatstes) could do the same..

the first woman president will probably be a former governor or maybe a high profile congresswoman.

[mkultra]

41. janet is unelectable

her name sounds like a type of ice-cream.

[SoCalDem]

43. Obama-Napolitano..sounds deee-lish..like an "Eye-talian feast"

:)

[Renew Deal]

31. I think Hillary is a trailblazer

The way Jesse Jackson may have been. It's not meant to be this time around, but the next woman is going to be a much better candidate.

[SoCalDem]

44. Jesse never really had a chance.. His rhetoric was unacceptable to white people

and he had been marginalized before he ever ran..

[DU GrovelBot]

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[VotesForWomen]

42. i've heard it the other way far more times. i.e. can't stand in the way of O's historic candidacy.

[Terran]

45. No

Plenty of other women, *right now*, who could run successfully for president in the future. This should be obvious to a five year old.