Marriage wedge.

[ccharles000]

Do you think what happened in California today will be used by republicans this November like they did in 2004.

[gateley]

1. Republicans will use anything that feeds on the fears of people --

and there are a lot of homophobes out there. So YES. nt

[David Dunham]

2. The Repugs will use it big time and it will really hurt Obama and other Dems

[redqueen]

3. I would've made that "Yes" a "Duh" option.

Cause you know they will.

[grantcart]

4. It will backfire - America's views of gays changes by the day

let alone 4 years

[nichomachus]

5. No -- they've already used that one -- they will think of something new

Never underestimate them.

[NotThisTime]

72. It worked the first time, it will work the 2nd time, they'll use it & that's why Obama has taken the

stand that he has.... He's not going to be swiftboated for anything.....

[Solon]

6. Yes, but I don't think it will work this, time, most Americans are concerned about...

bread and butter issues this time around, I don't think they can be hoodwinked by the Republicans again.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solon]

12. Fuck the timing, it needed to happen, sooner, rather than later...

civil rights should not be put on hold for political convenience.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maven]

26. You're not a real Dem, or a real friend, or a real anything.

History just happened and scapegoaters and chicken littles like you are irrelevant.

[meegbear]

28. Fuck. Off.

[closeupready]

39. +1

n/t

[sniffa]

78. I approve of this message

:thumbsup:

[terrya]

31. Being angry about being a second class citizen is "caring about no one but themselves"?

I'm not going to even try to reason to you. It's the same old "why can't those homos wait...and wait...and wait...and wait...and wait. Until we tell you when you can get full equality" bullshit.

So, just blow it out your ass. I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing that crap anymore.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

45. Go post on Free Republic where you belong.

Coward.

[bicentennial_baby]

46. Enjoy your stay...

And you don't know jack shit about the differences between civil unions and marriage.

[Solon]

56. Can you leave this board now, you are simply intolerable...

Civil rights should not have to take a back seat to ANYTHING, period!

[Bluebear]

66. Ruling: "domestic partnerships are not a good enough substitute for marriage"

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-CA-GayMarriage.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[closeupready]

76. If I was a moderator, I would tombstone your butt.

n/t

[chascarrillo]

35. Go and fuck off now.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bicentennial_baby]

40. Perhaps you would like to hear a word from Skinner, our Admin?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1324374

Read it and weep.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solon]

52. Acting like a freeper on this board is also grounds for being banned...

So stop acting like one!

[bicentennial_baby]

53. Waaaaaaaah!

[Bluebear]

61. Boo hoo.

[terrya]

65. I'd say that was pretty definitive

Unless David Allen has suddenly turned into a homophobic bigot since he posted that, I think that's pretty cut and dried.

:thumbsup:

[bicentennial_baby]

71. Indeed, my friend...

It's a good link to have handy. :)

[myrna minx]

41. LGBT folks have been second class citizens in this country for too long.

This is a historic ruling for HUMAN RIGHTS. You post is appalling.

[yardwork]

44. I hope that everybody on DU reads your post and remembers it.

[helderheid]

50. HOLLEE CRAP. You are a sad, sad, little person.

[Bluebear]

60. 'The gay community is fucking it up for everybody else.' - How utterly offensive.

[sniffa]

91. For reals

I hope everyone joins me in alerting. This has no place on DU.

[yardwork]

42. Yeah, well fuck anyone who thinks that its the "wrong time" for human rights.

If the country had waited for everyone to agree to Civil Rights, then Barack Obama would not have a college degree, much less be running for president. So just take your scaredy-cat homophobia someplace else.

[helderheid]

51. INDEED.

[Forkboy]

48. No time like the present to stand up for what's right.

Let us know when you find some courage.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

62. yes our civil rights should always wait for you.

:eyes:

[4_Legs_Good]

81. Timing is fine, November is 6 months off

Nothing to see here

Except an expansion of rights for a marginalized segment of our society!

Proud to be a Californian today.

David

[krabigirl]

83. Are you kidding??? Today was a wonderful day. I'm tired of being scared of the stupid GOP...yawn.

[TechBear_Seattle]

86. And gods damn you for being a selfish bigot

"WAAAAHHH! Equal rights will make us lose the elections! WAAAAAAHHHH!"

Go off and join the Republickers; I think you would fit in better with them.

[krawhitham]

8. This decision, as right as it is

Puts California in play for the Rethugs

[nebula]

57. Handing a huge wedge issue to the GOP

let's see how the gay community feels knowing they helped put McCain in the White House this November. they will be lucky to have civil unions, much less gay marriage, when that happens.

[yardwork]

67. It's always "the gay community's" fault with you, isn't it?

I don't live in California. I live in a red state that doesn't allow civil unions - it doesn't allow the most basic human rights to gay people like myself. I can get fired or kicked out of my apartment just for being gay in my state.

So take your whining and give yourself a wedgie.

[Bluebear]

69. 'give yourself a wedgie.'

LOLOLOL!!!

Thank you for that giggle.

[yardwork]

73. Glad to oblige!

:toast:

[krawhitham]

89. I did not whine I stated a fact

I agree with the decision and it should have come sooner. But the GOP will use it, it is in their nature.

It will put California in play. Will the GOP win California, No I do not that the rethugs can get elected Dog Catcher this year. But they will use it and make California closer than it should be

[Bluebear]

90. "It will put California in play" - No way.

[yardwork]

93. I wasn't respoinding to your post. I was responding to the freeper who responded to you.

[MonkeyFunk]

94. How are you still here?

You've been on my "buddy list" for ages.

[LostinVA]

100. Wow -- this reminds me of when NJ got civil unions and how it was the gay's fault

we would further lose Congress to the Republicans, and I think we all know how that turned out.

If you think gays don't deserve equal rights, then you should get the fuck off this board, and that is as per Skinner. Do you thinks blacks should have had to wait for equal rights?

[JackBeck]

95. Wrong.

Did the Democrats lose Massachusetts or New Jersey after similar decisions?

[sniffa]

97. I really hate some people

But not you. :loveya:

[LostinVA]

101. Yeah -- just like what happened with New Jersey

Those damn gays ruin everything for you.

[myrna minx]

9. Of course they'll use it, but

it won't be as effective this time around. I am really happy for my LGBT sisters and brothers about this decision. This is a long time coming. :hug:

[newmajority]

10. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried it.

But with all the "gay republican" scandals in the last year or so, I really don't think it would be advisable of them to do so :evilgrin:

[Maven]

11. Yeah, and the same group of spineless whiners will be complaining pre-2010

and pre-2012, and pre-2014, and...

Of course some RW jerkoff will try to use hate against us.

[terrya]

13. I knew this would come up. I knew it.

Let's review.

The incumbent Republican President has an approval rating of 30%.

70% of Americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction.

The economy is sliding into recession.

Gas prices are the highest in history. And still climbing.

We are mired in an unpopular war in Iraq.

John McCain is a continuation of the Bush Adminstration. Hell, voting for him is voting for another 4 years of Bush.

If Barack Obama can't win under those circumstances, then there is a serious, and I mean, serious problem there. Regardless of today's ruling.

Of course, we'll be seeing "why can't you homos and dykes just wait" and "stop being so selfish about your personal lives" around here today.

[Maven]

15. What weaklings. All they do is identify themselves as unprincipled phonies

[BlooInBloo]

14. They tried. It didn't work.

[DearAbby]

16. I dont feel the people are going to be fooled again

Equal rights for Gays is important...I don't believe this used as a wedge will work this time...a lot of water has ran under the bridge since 2004.

[WeDidIt]

17. It'll be used by them...

It's kind of tough to worry about the two guys who live in the house down the street getting married when you're a paycheck away form foreclosure, your food bill has gone through the roof, and you're wondering whether to buy your medicine or fill up your gas tank, though.

[DevonRex]

18. Sure it will. But I believe this issue is one that we can actually

make great progress on. Some of my family is way wacko anti-gay. But when I have my wits about me I can engage them in a way that begins to bring them around. For example, I can talk to my brother-in-law who, like me, was in the military, and served alongside several gays. And when he begins to answer my questions about them and recalls some of his old war stories, he has no choice to admit that they were every bit as patriotic and every bit as tough as anyone else. Maybe more so.

And when we discuss gay marriage, I ask him questions about why he thinks gays shouldn't have the same rights. Eventually he has to admit that it's a religion thing.

He hasn't gotten to the point yet that he's willing to say that the prevailing religious belief shouldn't matter, but he will eventually. It's only a matter of time...

[anigbrowl]

19. Yes, but it won't work as well for them

Supporterss of gay marriage had to fight their way to the Supreme court, so it wasn't a hand-me-down victory from a bunch of activist judges. Our state SC is actually fairly conservative. Meantime there'll be a ballot motion to make it unconstitutional, but an equally big argument that the state constitution is not there for the taking away of rights from people. Couples will marry all summer and the sky will not fall...just as it has not fallen in Massachusetts.

Obama can support it and at the same time say it shows that states are capable of dealing with the issue themselves, so it needn't be a federal issue.

[ampad]

21. Yes they will use it but you know something

It is time for Dems to grow a set and stand with the gay community. Oh the bigots and idiots will come out in droves but we need to come back at them and let them know we are sick of their wedge issue bullshit. It's not even about the wedge issue for me as it is more about people receiving their rights. It is time, we have asked the gay community to take a back seat for way too long now, it is time.

[Wise Child]

22. I wonder if

Republicans and various demagogues have overdrawn the anti-Gay Marriage card from 2004. Not that they won't try, I'm sure they will get creative, but many states have already passed anti-gay marriage amendments, so will they try to rework the issue this time around?

They will try to make a state court decision look like it's not a isolated event, they'll try to scare people in Middle America with something, but will it work?

[Tesha]

23. At some point, they will have milked it for all it's worth.

And the tide is definitely shifting in favor of a
"so what?" attitude towards civil unions *AND* full
civil marriage.

Tesha

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. Yes. But, the voters have other things on their minds and it won't sell.

The economy is in shambles.

The failed "war" is dragging on.

The infrastructure is falling apart from bridges to education.

And, all of that mess has a great big (R) plastered on it.

[tomg]

27. I think they will use it, but

I don't believe it will do any good. Last time, there were quite a few decent ( if terribly misguided) folks who voted for the Right; plus some people who equated supporting an idiot-in-chief with standing up for the country; plus a fair number of the "I've got mine, so screw the rest," crowd. The marriage wedge was for the normal assortment of racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic loons - commonly referred to as the base.

Well, the decent folks have fled ( I've seen a fair number of testimonials on DU, and I'm so glad to have you here); with the constitution in shreds and our military being destroyed,appeals to "patriotism" and "terror" aren't going to fly; with the economy in the proverbial toilet, even the "I've got mine" crowd are ready to bail. Guess that leaves the normal assortment of racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic loons -commonly referred to as the base. Last time I looked, that was 27%.

[donheld]

29. The choices

Vote for McCain so we can ban gay marriage, but keep wars, a horrid economy, no health care
Vote Obama or Hillary and see a few gays marry, end wars, fix the economy, fix health care.

[Orangepeel]

30. Sure they will, but that's the price of being on the side of equality

The civil rights act cost Democrats the south for a generation and counting. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have been a priority.

[Solon]

47. Exactly, and does anyone think that it was the wrong decision to make?

We should gladly give up the Democratic party's electoral chances for another generation if equal rights for ALL people are the result of such a move.

[eleny]

32. It's their bread and buttah

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[flpoljunkie]

34. Folks seem to have other things on their mind than depriving others of their civil rights.

Great that Governor Schwarzenegger has said he will not support the Christian right's amendment to the California constitution that is apparently headed to the ballot in November.

[closeupready]

37. Dont know, don't care.

n/t

[helderheid]

38. Not unless they are undocumented workers disguising their islamic extremism.

[Forkboy]

54. Let them bring it up. It's the right thing to do. If doing right is used against us so be it.

[harun]

55. What did they do in 2004 that has to do with the CA SC thing?

[IsItJustMe]

58. This is 2004 all over again. Talk about history repeating itself. WOW.

Kerry had his Massachusetts.
Obama will have his California.

I knew this was going to happen. Well, it was a nice dream anyway.

[kentuck]

59. Do you actually believe they would do this for "political" reasons??

And that they don't have the rights of gays in mind when they over-turned the law? Doesn't a large percentage of Americans agree with this decision??

[IsItJustMe]

74. No, matter of fact. Most states have now passed laws against gay marraige. And as far as I know

most of the states done it through ballot initiatives.

[Creideiki]

68. Glad to provide you with an excuse.

[IsItJustMe]

75. WTF are you talking about.

[Creideiki]

99. When Barack can't run a decent campaign to get him to the White House

you can just blame us.

[closeupready]

79. Being loyal on this issue is too much? Come out tomorrow, friend, when the weather is fair.

n/t

[IsItJustMe]

87. Just an observation. I have no attatchment to the issue one way or the other. I just remember that

the Republicans used the issue very well against Kerry. I went to a Kerry campaign rally and there were hundreds of people there to protest gay marraige. It was disgusting that an issue like this hurt him. But in my mind, it did none-the-less.

I really don't know how it will be hung around Obama's neck. But this I can tell you for sure, the Republicans will do their damnedest to do so.

[closeupready]

88. Hopefully, Obama knows how to defend himself, rather than betray his gay supporters.

That's what a man of honor does. We'll have to see.

[LostinVA]

103. He'll just drag out Donnie from his closet again

[krabigirl]

84. Nope, sorry, It won't be an issue in November.

[LostinVA]

102. Or it could be 2006 all over again -- remember that?

Yeah -- the gays totally ruined the chance the Dems had to regain Congress in 2006.

Oh wait -- nevermind.

:puke:

[IsItJustMe]

104. Well at least I have a Clinton supporter jumping me, it must be unity.

[LostinVA]

106. I don't know who you support and I don't care

Rights delayed are rights denied.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

63. they will use the issue whether or not we get married in CA.

[last1standing]

64. They'll use it. I just don't think it'll work this time around.

Just like they're trying to scare their base with the concept of a scary black man running the country, any attempt to use wedge issues like "gay special rights" will probably fail as people look to their empty gas tanks.

[JVS]

70. They'll try to use it. We stand our ground and point to GOP failures of the last 8 years.

[galledgoblin]

77. used? sure. successfully? I doubt it! (n/t)

[crankychatter]

80. I voted yes BUT, Arnold's one of them, so that's gonna make it harder to spin n/t

.

[krabigirl]

82. They will try, but they will fail. Especially with this crap economy...

[JerseygirlCT]

85. They'll try. The question is whether anyone will be paying attention

this time around.

We need to keep the country focused on the crimes of the past 7 years, and McCain's involvement in them.

[JackBeck]

92. Any thing is possible.

But this hand has recently been overplayed by the wingers. They've moved on to immigration, as of the last election cycle. And that didn't have much staying power, either.

A word of advice for the naysayers: you can either join us as we march toward equality for our fellow LGBT Americans, or get out of our path before we knock you down and trample because we refuse to let you stand in our way.

[Reterr]

96. Other: yes they will try to use it because they are sleazebags but

I doubt that too many people will buy it or care. Even Evangelicals are dropping the issue and focussing more on poverty, environment etc. Not to sound overly confident but I think the GOP is TOAST. All their base are belong to us!!!

Besides one can't keep putting back civil rights because a bunch of assbags like that keep beating that dead horse. Gay rights=human rights. Fuck the GOP.

[NJSecularist]

98. We need to articulate our message to the American people about why gay marriages are good.

We cannot dodge the issue. We need to stop approaching this issue with fear. If we don't articulate our message well, we deserve to lose. But giving rights to people who deserve them is never a bad thing, and for anybody to say such otherwise, regardless of the political reprecussions, is an idiot.

[avenger64]

105. that won't fly in California ...

... no matter who the Democratic candidate is, they'll win by 10 points.