The Clinton campaign HAS hurt our party, and our chances in the General Election

[Levgreee]

they have personally created a variety of splinter issues, such as Florida and Michigan, Unity ticket or bust, and belittling/lying about Obama's stances on issues(choice, health care, the economy... oh, he is in it for the big oil companies, he didn't accept the gas tax), making him an unacceptable alternative to some voters.


Hillary's campaign has progressively lost more and more inhibitions as this race went on, and they HAVE gone to such an extreme that they have created division where there could have been good feelings and unity. They are single-handedly making our party disfunctional as we go into the General Election... there is a good chance we can recover, but I think there's some chance we might not, and a very good chance that at least some lasting damage was done.

Fortunately, Obama's bringing in of new voters will assuage that damage somewhat.

[MH1]

1. I agree, and that is my biggest problem with Hillary now.

I had some issues with her before, but if she'd run this campaign with any kind of class, I think I would have gotten over those. I really wanted to.

[Levgreee]

3. the same thing that they are doing has happened to me with addictions... you push barriers

past the point where you have damaged yourself. You rationalize some of the poor decisions you make, rationalize the damage done as being fine, it's not THAT bad. And you only notice the damage done a bit afterwards, and in retrospect realize you should never have been so rash and inconsiderate.

[Summer of 41]

64. Obama played the race card with "fairy tale"

How was that class?

[Raine]

68. Bill is the one who used that

"fairy tale" crap in regards to Obama!

[Saturday]

2. That's hogwash, the party is stronger than ever. nt

[MichiganVote]

4. Nonsense

[wvbygod]

5. Got it backwards

The Obama campaign and his highbrow supporters looking down upon Hillary
voters and those designated a lesser class has created a great rift that
only Hillary can mend.

[aquart]

20. Rampant sexism and ageism is good for the party.

Not to mention sneering at anyone who does blue collar or non-executive work. Yes, Obama is a uniter not a divider.

Why don't the snotty rich kids like Hillary? Because she actually had to work for her degrees?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheDebbieDee]

6. You're just putting that out there early so if Obama loses in

November, the good old Clintons can be blamed for that, too!

Not buying it.

Our party is strong. Our party is energized. I'm PROUD to be a Democrat!

[griffi94]

8. hahaha

i think that as well. should obama lose in november it will be all hillarys fault.

the same way every other ailment known to mankind is hillarys fault. if she would just go on television and give a speech where she admits that she doesn't deserve to live, and that she wears ugly pantsuits and that she killed vince foster and that she's a lesbian, and that obama is by far the superior candidate and her supporters who don't vote for him are racists. then everything would be forgiven.

unless obama were to lose in november and then it would be all her fault.

[roguevalley]

46. they will be blamed. there isn't a person in the media who hasn't already

put this forward and I personally will never forgive her. Some of us took great personal hits in our lives defending these two asses. what the hell did we do that for? FOR THIS?! this is bullshit and she will be blamed. And she earns it if it happens. Which it won't. We will win it all this year and Barack will be president.

[VotesForWomen]

62. my golly, aren't the clintons powerful. 2 people who can stop america from electing the president

it 'really' wants!!??? gee, that's... well... hard to believe.

[pinto]

7. Though I have backed off some on a "primary focus", of late, I disagree.

I think the simple historic demographic accomplishment for the party in this primary remains - a female and a man of color as our front runners - and the broader interest in the primary from day one, when there were a number of contenders, remains.

Democratic registration is up, voter turn out is up, media coverage is up.

Yeah it's been a tough season. But, hey, we're going to come out of it with a well tested, well vetted candidate to counter McCain. And, I hear Ron Paul folks may make some noise in opposition at their convention while Barr makes a late Libertarian appearance.

Bodes well for us, I think.

:kick:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. Not By A Long Shot. And Your One Sided Perception Is Astounding.

Moving aside from the fact that you so ignorantly put this on Hillary as if Obama caused no waves whatsoever throughout this process (skewed perception to the max with your tone), the fact is that this primary battle has generated more interest and voter turnout than any other Dem primary in history probably. That's a good thing. A very good thing. We'll be fine in November.

Try and get a grip between now and then, k?

[Auntie Bush]

24. Agreed! And McCain can't even get his name or face in the news

Even FOX spends 95% of their time talking about Hillary and Obama and Democrats ...hardly a peep about McLame...you'd hardly know he was running.

[DemGa]

10. What about Obama and his campaign's assaults on Clinton?

They've assailed and smeared Clinton's character and honesty since the campaign began. Spare the rationalizations and talking points - what about that?

[roguevalley]

51. boo-hoo.

[LisaL]

11. What an absolute nonsense.

Maybe it's Obama who had created problems for Hillary.
Sure as hell, if he didn't run, she would walk through this thing and be a nominee already.

[splat]

13. You bet. All that money would have gone towards her beating McCain

He wouldn't wait his turn.

I've been around too long to put my faith in rookies.

[AllentownJake]

16. The only people who win in our party

Are rookies.

Kerry, Dukakis, and Mondale were not rookies.

[splat]

25. Carter and Clinton and FDR were governors

[AllentownJake]

30. LOL

Carter and FDR had one term. Bill was the Govenor of a small state.

EPIC FAIL

[splat]

43. FDR had one term??? LOL! Try 4 -- that's what led to term limits

Unbelievable.

[woolldog]

59. He meant that FDR was a 1 term governor.

i.e., he was a rookie.

I'd add Woodrow Wilson to the list of "rookies" as well.

[bvar22]

52. Obama has certainly caused problems for Hillary.

He won the Democratic nomination and ruined her coronation.

[splat]

12. "Our party" is bottom up; you're talking top down, voice of authority.

Dems are an unruly bunch. And we like it that way.

[AtomicKitten]

14. I agree. Her attitude is if she can't win the nomination, no Democrat will win the White House.

Although she has poisoned the well whenever she gets the chance, I believe Barack has invigorated a new electorate that will leave that kind of olde tyme dog-whistle politics in the dust.

[VotesForWomen]

63. don't worry, O-ists will make certain that no dem gets into the white house. nt

[Raine]

66. you got that back-assed backwards

that's what the Clintons are doing. x(

[AtomicKitten]

67. Hillary lost. Get over it. Obama will kick the crap out of McCain; your worst nightmare, right?

[dailykoff]

15. Every day they keep their media-backed hate fest going

is a day of progress lost to the world forever. They are despicable troglodytes and I will be SO happy to see their shitty presidency ranked with Dumya's among the worst ever. :mad:

[avenger64]

17. It will hurt our party more to have a candidate ...

... who can't win. Senator Clinton can, Obama can't.

Look, this is the process. He's not going to get enough delegates to clinch the election (2025). They're going to be within a hundred delegates of each other, or so. She's won all of the big democratic states, and he's gotten his delegate lead by winning caucuses among party insiders, and by winning red states, like those in the deep South, that he can't win in November. They can go to the convention, and let the superdelegates decide who is best to face McCain.

It's not over, and she's proving it tonight in WV, and she'll prove it again in Kentucky.

[dailykoff]

18. All she's proving is her ability to damage the party.

And she proved that months ago.

[eridani]

57. How does the Tuzla liar beat an ex-POW? n/t

[bigtree]

19. you're candidate is responsible for his own campaign

. . . which has been historically weak against his challenger in this Democratic primary, despite the historic levels of participation overall.

[swishyfeet]

21. What do you mean by historically weak?

Just wondering.

He's leading by every possible measure... no?

[bigtree]

27. I've never seen a candidate who is trailing this close to the leader before

. . . this 'late' in the primary. Look at the Gallup poll.

[swishyfeet]

31. Not THAT close

Unless somebody can pull a gay lover out of their hat, it's over. Hillary is a decent candidate and she has Bill behind her, it's not surprising she's putting up a decent fight, but she can't win at this point.

61% of exit pollees said Bill's support was important.
Must be nice being the former President's wife!

[bigtree]

34. close enough to deny Obama the opportunity to win the nomination by actual votes cast alone

[bvar22]

54. Historicaly weak.....

What does that say about Hillary ?

[swishyfeet]

22. Dupe

argh

[AlinPA]

23. Clinton's constant hammering on Michigan and Florida is really the big divisive

action. If they would have accepted the rules, people would not be as divided. Yes, MI and FL voters would be pissed if they were totally ignored in the end but that hasn't happened yet.

[splat]

26. Youi're only hearing one note -- I hear her hammering on issues I care about

[eridani]

58. Like "obliterating" Iran? Scolding Iraqis for not appreciating

--the wonderful gift of "freedom" we gave them? Like docking my paycheck to support health insurance? Like shilling for the Columbia "free" trade bill (yes, Mark Penn and Bill really do count here).

[rodeodance]

28. And BHO showed he did not care about them.

[splat]

50. Yeah, what's after 'hope' and 'change'? 1969?

[Heathen57]

70. Barack is playing by the rules

Something Clinton and her campaign know nothing of. There were several tries to get the delegates to be allowed in, but they didn't work out. And it wasn't Obama that was always stopping it.

At the end of the month a decision will be made and I'll bet the delegates will be seated from those two states. They just won't have any clout in deciding who the nominee is.

[Butch350]

29. Too Basd for Her...

She must be setting herself up for a 2012 run.

Doesn't make any difference - if she does - she could get beat by a blind beagle!

[barack the house]

32. It's all about hope and positivity the bob barr 3rd party will take votes from McCain so cheer up

there.

[barack the house]

33. It's all about hope and positivity the bob barr 3rd party will take votes from McCain so cheer up

really.

[curious one]

35. Be positive. She is destroying her political career. Watch NY next re-election

[kikiek]

36. Utter bullshit. It is a hard fought campaign. So sick of you people expecting her to just

let Obama win. If you truly believe that Obama's campaign didn't start crap in this primary you are naive. Of course they have. He isn't the all innocent he makes himself out to be. That is a carefully created persona. He didn't even have to do much to promote it. His supporters have elevated him to this godlike status. Should he get lucky enough to actually win the GE you will be bitterly disappointed in what he turns out to be. He has campaigned in the same manner as the other candidates by mailing misleading fliers, airing misleading ads, making phone calls, starting innuendos about race, diminishing other democrats and their contributions. He has used his wife and many celebrities to cut down his opponents. His supporters have gone and disrupted Hillary's campaign at every stop. He is a politician, and behaves like one like it or not. Listening to you Obama's campaign has done what it set out to do.

[Heathen57]

69. Would you kindly provide a listing

of all the "crap" that Obama himself started against Clinton personally? Also any of the "crap" that was said by one of his staff where he didn't dismiss the remark within a day?

I'm sure that I can come up with a list of things Clinton has done as well as the things her staff has done that there has been no apology for until much later, if at all. If I don't do it, some kind soul here will.

You, just like your candidate, has made the accusations. Isn't it about time you all back up your libel with facts? Or is that something that Clinton and her supporters don't have to do?

[kikiek]

71. Oh libel my ass. How histrionic of you. Thanks for proving my point. Once again an Obama

supporter comes out and declares all things bad about Clinton are true, and little Obama is the saint who will save everyone. He hasn't done any dirty campaigning huh? Give me a break. He flip flops, he distorts, he hides things, and he will sell his soul for your vote. He is a typical politician. Get the stars out of your eyes.

[Heathen57]

73. And as is typical with a Clinton supporter,

you still haven't answered the question I asked. Can you give specific instances where Obama himself has done the things you say, or is all you have are vague charges that have no substance?

[dano81818]

37. and this is all that really matters

thank you

[HuffleClaw]

38. replace 'clinton' with 'obama' and you'd have gotten it right. n/t

[wileedog]

39. Why, because he had the gall to win?

[splat]

40. Obama doesn't wear well; exciting at first, but they you get sick of it playing

[The River]

42. Rather Like Your Post

After the (exciting) first word you get sick of reading it.

[splat]

45. Nyah-Nyah

If Obama is exciting to you, you're not experienced.

[BlueJac]

41. I agree...........

No comment, or it would be nasty like Hillary and her fools!

[Evergreen Emerald]

44. what a bunch of bullshit. I thought that idiotic meme; "its all Clinton's fault"

was going to end with Bush blaming all of his mistakes on Clinton. I see that it will not end as you all have decided to take up the unfounded, idiotic right-wing cause.

[jillan]

48. It's becomming more and more freeperish around here lately - hasn't it?

[jillan]

47. No - Obama has hurt the party by ignoring middle class voters.

[swishyfeet]

55. You say it's becoming freeperish around here then post this bullshit?

Fucking brilliant

[TeamJordan23]

49. She is trying to make him weak so he loses and she runs in 2012. nm

[woolldog]

60. She will have no chance in 2012

Too many burned bridges.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. get real

[VotesForWomen]

61. uh, it's our party too, and the non-stop nastiness from O-ists is hurting it.

[shayes51]

72. Amen to that!

That some Obama folks are already blaming Hillary for an Obama loss in November is shameful. IF he is the nominee, and IF he loses, he will have himself to blame--just like any adult would.

[shaniqua6392]

65. Clinton stayed in and it helped our party.

If she really wanted to stab Obama in the back, she could have dropped out before WV and KY voted. Then he would have lost horribly to a candidate that was no longer in the race. We have new voters and tons of money going to the Democratic Party because of Clinton AND Obama. He will not win this without her. I just don't see him getting the electoral votes in the GE. They know what they are doing and they don't really care what we think about it. They just want to win in November and the candidates will come together in a few weeks.

[highplainsdem]

74. Both Obama and Edwards have said she hasn't.

And yes, I know -- Obama supporters will say they're "just being gracious."

I don't think so. I think they're trying to get through to people who might otherwise drive Hillary's supporters away that the Hillary-bashing is NOT helping.