About this "let them all vote!" meme

[MirrorAshes]

Since this has now become the battlecry of the Hillary camp, I have to wonder about something. Where is all the outrage for all the primary races of the past, oh, i don't know, entire history of this country?

The rules have never been that you couldn't have a nominee before the contests were all over. So all this talk about disenfranchising voters is really kind of silly, is it not? Obama has the pledged delegate lead and now the superdelegate lead. NONE of that is going to change.

I'm fine with letting this go through KY or whatever suits Hillary best to go out on a high note, but lets drop this phony "democracy in peril" talk, ok? I mean, c'mon. We weren't born yesterday.

[boobooday]

1. Had she blown it out on Super Tuesday . . . and gained enough to be the nominee

She wouldn't give a hoot about the voters in Oregon, or Indiana, or Pennsylvania.

[MirrorAshes]

6. exactly. its so phony. n/t

[beezlebum]

2. yes

:applause:

[TwilightGardener]

3. They all CAN vote. They can even vote for Edwards, or Biden, or Mickey Mouse.

I agree, it's a fucking dumb reason to keep two candidates in the race after the math becomes extremely unlikely. If Obama gets hit by a bus, physically or politically, she can always take her delegates to the convention and be the nominee.

[TexasObserver]

4. Everyone will vote. The issue is whether Hillary stops being such a sh*t!

The race is over. Yes, there will be about a half dozen more contests, and it's fine to see how those contests end before declaring the race officially over. But a team that is soundly beaten still has some duty in the waning moments NOT to try to inflict injury on the other team, the victor. We call that making "cheap shots," and we harshly judge those who violate this social contract between winners and losers.

She has a duty as the loser, and she's not fulfilling it. That is a story, a story of how hubris has run her disasterous campaign from start to pathetic finish.

[madeline_con]

5. All I have to say is...

Either let MI and FL vote again, or don't count us at all!

[MirrorAshes]

8. assuming that you are from FL or MI, care to expand on that? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, how to most local folks feel about it?

I kinda feel like most people should understand that when there are stated rules, and everybody agrees to follow the rules, then everybody should just go ahead and follow the damn rules. I also have no real problem with some sort of proportional split deal, but Hillary wanting ALL the delegates from MI is just ludicrous.

[madeline_con]

12. I'm in FL

My problem is with trying to change things after one finds out the race is not going in their favor.

Also, being the only one on a ballot may not seem to suggest there is no other candidate, but it does discourage dome voters, I'm sure.

so, revote or don't count. Simple.

[Romulox]

11. This is about how much you can abuse somebody and still count on their loyalty...

Michigan voters aren't going to the back of the bus quietly so Barack Obama can work on his pipe dream of winning South Dakota's handful of EC votes.

I think John McCain has a very real chance of winning Michigan. Out of state idiots with memories that don't go back farther than 2000 say it can't happen. :eyes:

[MirrorAshes]

13. I think MI voters are smart enough to understand the circumstances

And I'm sure Obama will understand its importance in November. They will not be abused, neglected, or any such sort of lunacy. This may be what Hillary wants people to think, but it's utter nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

[Romulox]

15. No rule says Barack Obama can't address Michigan's worst in the country economy

But still, we're waiting to hear from him. This state is his to lose at this point.

[MirrorAshes]

16. fair enough. but he's had a lot on his plate, heh.

I'm confident he'll come out swinging in MI, but I guess we'll just have to see.

[Romulox]

18. I reiterate: This is about how much you can abuse somebody and still count on their loyalty...

We in Michigan are not losing our entire way of life on Barack Obama's timetable, unfortunately...

[MirrorAshes]

21. Why do you blame Obama? Its your state party who caused the "abuse"

its getting hard to take you seriously here. If anyone suffered because of this it's Obama, seeing as his name wasn't on the ballot and Hillary is trying to play that off as legitimate. And hey guess what, ITS NOT.

Obama is the last person to blame for all of this. C'mon.

[TahitiNut]

31. It was political hacks of ALL stripes ... state, national, GOP, and Dem.

Obama had the LEAST to do with it ... only marginally more than the People of the State of Michigan, who had NOTHING to do with it.

This is NOT just the 2008 primaries. This has been a problem for decades, with privilege given to states that're NOT demographically representative of the Democratic base ... and states that're the LEAST impacted by the Cheney/Bush regime. The FACT that the Democratic Party FAILED to address this long before 2008 makes them a contributor to the FUBAR... big time.

[TahitiNut]

30. It was a FUBAR. There's no way to undo it.

The chance to have a revote is gone. The taxpayers of Michigan paid millions for an election that only 'counted' for the GOP. No "Democrat" campaigned here - no spending and no facing the voters. Grabbing party loyalists for a trip to Denver DOES NOT undo that. No way. No how.

The political vultures attempting to feed on the carcass of that FUBAR are disgusting to me. It's ALL about getting political advantage and NOTHING about the people of the state of Michigan. Fuck the vultures!

[MirrorAshes]

35. I think this sentence sums it up perfectly:

"It's ALL about getting political advantage and NOTHING about the people of the state of Michigan."

Can you imagine if the roles here were reversed and it'd been Obama's name on the ballot, with no Hillary? And he tried to pull this? He'd be dead in the water for even suggesting it.

DOUBLE-STANDARD.

[depakid]

7. Ironically (and fortunately for checker players out there)

The fact that all states are getting a chance to vote for a Democrat in a close primary has increased interest and Democratic registrations that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

At the least, this will help down ticket, even if the nominee loses the presidency in the fall.

[City Lights]

9. The new battlecry from the Queen of "It'll be over by Super Tuesday."

She's as phony as a 3-dollar bill.

[SoCalDem]

10. She planned to be done feb 5 and never cared one iota about ANY state afterwards

She might have done a post-primary victory tour, but she never planned to campaign in ANY of them..SHE ONLY HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO RUN UNTIL FEB 5..

Elections are NEVER cancelled, once a nomineee is chosen..she's trying to convince the "low-education" voters that their election can ONLY happen if she campaigns there :)

[helderheid]

14. I thought she said it would be all over by Super Tuesday.

[rug]

17. What Democrat in his right mind would buy this "let them all vote" crap?

[rock]

19. Not wanting to count the vote

Makes you proud to be a Democrat doesn't it?

[MirrorAshes]

22. SWOOSH! That was the sound of the point going over your head. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

20. It was hillaryous to learn that Mark Penn thought California was a "winner take all" state.

And she still owes him millions to run her campaign.

Hahahahahaha.

[DemVet]

23. New party motto: "FL and MI...fuck 'em!"

[MirrorAshes]

25. hardly.

i doubt anyone is opposed to a reasonable resolution to the MI & FL issues. only problem is "reasonable" does not include giving ALL the delegates to Hillary in MI.

[Orsino]

24. Coming from a candidate who has done nothing about the goddamned voting machines...

...it rings false.

Where is the candidate with the vision to realize that s/he just might need all those votes someday?

[LWolf]

26. My primary isn't until May 20th.

You don't value the votes from my state enough to wait for them?

I am not a Clinton supporter.

[MirrorAshes]

28. I think you should read my post again. Especially this part:

"I'm fine with letting this go through KY or whatever suits Hillary best to go out on a high note, but lets drop this phony "democracy in peril" talk, ok?"

Go vote. Nobody is stopping you or wants to stop you. The complaint here isn't about that, its the misrepresentation of the issue pushed by the Clinton campaign.

[LWolf]

29. As someone who

supports neither Clinton nor Obama, and who will make a protest vote on May 20, I've said all along that the current primary system is not democratic.

If it were, every vote would carry the same weight, and every candidate would start on the same starting line and run on the same track.

Whether the Clinton campaign has ulterior motives for their stance or not, the fact remains that the Democratic Primary process is not clean, nor democratic.

[MirrorAshes]

32. well, that is another topic alltogether.

I don't completely disagree but its pretty far from my mind at this point. What would your solution be?

To your point though, I do think its somewhat ridiculous to have super-tuesday and then have everything else afterwards be this awkwardly-paced stumble towards the convention, which of course should never have been scheduled so late. And superdelegates... oh, the god-forsaken superdelegates. oy.

Yet, all of this is moot at this point. I do hope this year gets people to re-address our system though, that is for certain.

[LWolf]

33. My solution:

1. No super delegates.

2. No caucuses.

3. No polling: all polls banned.

4. 100% public financing of elections. No donations of any kind, and no campaigning of any kind outside of the official campaign. In other words, no outside "non-affiliated" groups paying for commercials, billboards, fliers, etc..

5. Real debates. You know: well-crafted, substantive questions, where each candidate is asked each question, and each candidate gets equal talk time.

6. Some version of a fairness doctrine which would include, among other things, guaranteed equal press/media time.

7. Vote by mail, for all states. My state only votes by mail, and I like it that way. No polls, no voting booths, no touch screens. Presidential primary candidates on a separate ballot from the rest of the candidates and measures for the purpose of counting.

8. A national counting day, after the deadline for the final primary. No matter who went first, all votes are counted on the same day, giving every vote, and every state, equal weight (outside of population, of course.)

I'm also interested in making sure ballots are hand-counted, and in using some form of IRV. The list above needs to come first, though.

[MirrorAshes]

34. well, that is a lot to ask for, but

it sure would make things interesting, and yes, much more fair. as a huge Kucinich fan myself I believe I get where you're coming from. Realistically though, perhaps aside from the party seriously thinking about eliminating superdelegates, i doubt much of that will ever happen. Too much change too fast is a little more than the country can digest. I'm not sure what it would take to completely overhaul the system like that but I hope in my lifetime it can be improved as much as possible. Thanks for your input!

[LWolf]

36. One step forward at a time, and we'll eventually get there.

The longest journey begins with one step. The key is to keep moving, however slowly, however small the steps are, forward.

[dano81818]

27. not to mention the fact that HER plan was to have it wrapped by supertuesday

thereby denying every voter in every state the opportunity to cast a meaningful vote...

pure hypocracy.......