My letter to the Obama campaign on PayingHillarysLoanBackGate -- feel free to use any/all

[Yael]

If you find anything in this useful, please feel free to copy.

I felt better just sending it. :)

Obama Campaign Team,

I am a volunteer in <City/State> (county which we WON on April 22!!).

I am writing with concerns about the rumors circulating the internet that there is an option on the table for the campaign to retire Senator Clinton's debt as a means of encouraging her to drop out of this race.

I am incensed at the thought of this, and even more concerned that the Obama campaign (known for jumping on rumors) has not addressed this one way or another.

If I had any interest in retiring her personal loan to herself (and the Bellagio bill, and Mark Penn's invoices, etc), I would start a campaign of my own for my fellow Obama supporters to assist her in re-paying herself (and her consultants).

I donated my hard earned, middle class earnings to Senator Edwards and later, Senator Obama because I believe in the change that both candidates propose.

Hillary Clinton is (by law) paying herself interest on her loan(s). At the $5million level, that is $10k a month. Now, we are up to $11.6 million. You can do the math, but let me give you a visual -- HRC will pay more to HERSELF in interest from January 2008 to June of 2008 than I earn before taxes in a YEAR.

I scrimp and save and go without in order to be able to donate to my candidate(s) and I will be damned if I will continue to do so with the thought that my donation could be going toward paying off her debt to herself for the Romney-esque vanity campaign she has run.

While I understand the logic being presented that paying her off is cheaper than continuing the Ad blitz, I propose that the latter will do a LOT more to assist local economies than the former, which just replenishes her $109-million-over-7-years savings account and assists with her payments on the mansions in Washington DC and Chappaqua NY.

Until I hear from this campaign that using non-voluntary middle class donations to repay Hillary Clinton's lack of fiscal management is OFF THE TABLE, I will not make another donation to this campaign. That goes for the DNC as well, and a similar email has been sent to Dr. Dean.

I don't mean to be rude -- I am 110% behind the Senator and he has my vote. This is just a line that I will not cross.

If this indeed is the plan, then my suggestion is to reach out to the maxed out Clinton donors and leave us struggling middle class people out of the fundraising efforts until such a time as you all have collected what she is "due" (in NEW donations, not paying out of existing) and are ready to start anew with the race against Senator McCain.

This campaign stands for transparency, and I will expect no less in this matter.

God bless and best wishes on the remaining 6 contests,

<name>

[Tatiana]

1. The Obama camp will never repay the personal loan for Penn's bill.

But he'll have at the very least $10 million that he can't use in the general election.

I don't have a problem paying off the local vendors and school districts. This would earn a lot of goodwill in places like Iowa.

[Yael]

3. I have no problem with that either, sis

I just want them to address this as it has gone viral. My overwhelming issue is her loan to herself.

I will note though that while GE funds can't be used in the primary, primary funds CAN be used in the GE.

[Tatiana]

21. Thanks for the correction, sis.

Which makes me think paying off the local folk is a good thing to do. He has plenty of money and he'll get a boatload more once this primary is over and maxed out donors can contribute towards the general.

My fear is that these small businesses (and no, I'm not talking about the Bellagios and the Hyatts) like the union print shop that produced her signs or the schools where she held her rallies or the park districts and municipalities that are owed money will get stiffed. There are all kinds of tricks that can be employed to get out of paying these outstanding debts. Because these are small businesses and not huge corporations, they don't have attorneys on retainer or debt collection agents on standby to help recover their money. Yes, she ordered the balloons for her "victory party" knowing she couldn't really afford it, but wouldn't it be great if that small vendor got a check in the mail courtesy of the Obama campaign? Wouldn't that say something about Obama's campaign and the way he oversees his finances and how he looks out for the "little guy?"

There is no way in hell Axelrod & co. are gonna repay Penn's bills and Hillary's personal loan. They know how much donors sacrificed to help fund this campaign. But these stories about the small vendors in Iowa and Ohio who had to incur costs up front and expected to be paid are really heartbreaking. Yes, it is common practice for the victor to retire most (if not all) of the losing candidate's debt once they declare their support for the victor. I don't think Obama will do that.

$10 million is a good cap, I think and the Obama campaign should ask for the invoices and issue payment themselves.

[Yael]

24. Oh hells yeah

Turn over all of those invoices -- EVERYTHING -- and let Obama pay it off with a big media outcry on it.

:woohoo:

Her loan to herself and the Penn's of the world? Best of luck to them all -- tell them to write when they find work.

If Obama was to come out and say that he was going to be footing the small business (NOT loans and NOT consultants) portion of her debt, I am all for that.

[woolldog]

25. hey Tatiana,

why can't the Clintons' be the ones to pay off their debts to their small vendors? Why does the Obama campagin have to do it for them? She has the money to pay those small businesses. She just didn't want to. So she stiffed them. Now Obama has to pick up the tab? No way.

[Yael]

28. It isnt about "the Clintons" and the "Obana Campaign"

It is about "the Clintons" and the DONORS to the "Obama campaign" at this point.

That said, it is only Wednesday -- things could change tomorrow...

[Tatiana]

31. I agree. If the majority of donors do not want their funds to go towards

paying off any of Clinton's debt (and my older sister is threatening to eat her underwear if that happens), then this is a no-go.

The donors have to be OK with paying off these local vendors, otherwise they could withhold future funding for the general.

I think we haven't heard anything from Plouffe because they are actually considering the idea. Kos even examines the strategic value of retiring most of her campaign's debt (including consultants, loans, etc.). His argument is that Obama will SAVE money in the long run by not having to buy so much advertising to compete against her.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Honestly, what in hell is this about? I've heard nothing about Hillary wanting Obama...

to pay off her debts.

From where did this topic du jour eminate?

[Yael]

6. No clue, Maddy.

My concern is that the Obama campaign is known to be on top of stuff like this within hours and nary a peep out of them all day on this one.

This is not candidate specific either -- I am still pissed that Senator Edwards' strategy guy (Trippi) was hounding a fundraiser the day before he dropped, and I spent $300 at the Edwards' store for shirts/etc that I will never see. I know this isn't on the $11 million scale, but then again, I didn't make $1009 million since 2000, so to me is no different.

The fact is that it is out there and it is viral, and they need to address it.

Sis -- good weekend to you if we don't chat before then!

[charlie]

11. Probably just an assumption

that it'd be something he'd want to do, for his own interests. McCain is helping Giuliani with his debts. Hillary helped retire Vilsack's debt and received his endorsement in return.

[movonne]

14. Go to huffington and it is a blog written by lawrence o'donnal...

[WA98296]

42. Tim Russert suggested it as a deal on primary night on MSNBC

[Beregond2]

4. I can't picture this happening.

What would he gain? Nothing. He has already won. What could he lose? The goodwill of everyone who has donated to his campaign. It won't happen.

[jgraz]

5. K&R. I can't believe he would do this.

[Yael]

12. Then they need to address it. Pull it off the table and *poof* its no longer anm issue.

[Bonobo]

7. I probably missed it, but is there a credible reason to believe they might do this? nt

[swishyfeet]

9. I believe Timmah! brought it up late last night

He coulda just pulled it out of his ass...

[Yael]

13. Banter all over today about it. I just want to know that it if off the table.

[Bonobo]

15. Gotcha. I think I'll hold off until something more concrete pops up. Thanks though.

[Yael]

19. Roger that!

:thumbsup:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. NO, I think I will trust Obama's advisors, they got us this far

I won't be joining in on the hammering - he's had far more hammering
and attacks as it is.

[Catherina]

10. Obama can't raise and spend money on a GE until HRC is out of the race

it will also clost a lot more than $10 million dollars to keep fighting the Clinton machine for the next few months.

The idea galls me because HRC is responsible for her own debt but Obama needs his hands freed so he can fight a proper GE. I am reluctantly on board with this idea.

I composed an angry e-mail about his about 2 hours ago but changed my mind thanks to strong Obama supporters who made really good points about the wisdom of this.

[anigbrowl]

16. Don't forget $10 million in debt as well as the loans.

I'd say her campaign is in the red by about $20m now.

[Yael]

18. I appreciate the logic here

As Carville noted (and I thought this was hilarious), "1.2 Million donors isn't a fundraising list, that is a political party". :D Noting that he is over 1.5 millon now...

That said -- how many struggling middle class people (not activists) will be there with the paypal account if this happens?

Why has the campaign (infamous for jumping on negative press/rumors) not addressed this?

I know there are a lot of people who are fine with this. As a recovering Republican who has never donated to a campaign before this cycle -- maybe I am odd man out.

Catherina -- it just sickens me. :(

[Catherina]

23. It sickens me too

That money was ear-marked for something else but I forked it over to Obama.

I think we need to keep our eye on the prize and let him invest what he needs to untie his hands and be able to raise more money. He'll at least double what he pulled in this far because maxed out people can give again and many of Hillary's supporters will give the same way former DK, Edwards etc supporters gave to Obama. I'm convinced now that we need to let that money go. After all, we gave it to him to win and if this is what he needs to win :shrug:

It's possible this is a preemptive rumor started by HRC surrogates that the Obama campaign is still weighing. Or maybe it's a rumor designed to dry up our purse strings. Either way, we've trusted them this far, we shouldn't stop now. I'm still not really fine with it. It hurts inside knowing that my money won't doesn't even cover 2 hair appointments for her when I haven't been to a hairdresser in over 7 years. Just think about it some more and go with your gut.

[Yael]

26. Your hairdresser comment made my point for me, and better than I could have on my best day

Thanks sis. :hug:

[Catherina]

29. You're welcome Yael

I didn't thank the people whose posts made me rethink my anger about it. I wish I had but I don't remember where I read them here. I'm glad it helps you some. If he does pay off her debt, I'm gonna treat myself to a hair appointment and deduct if from my GE donation because it won't be fair otherwise. I know that sounds silly but right now it makes me feel better :hug:

[Binka]

37. Good God Damn Woman Peyton & I Will Eat Top Ramen For You To Get To A Salon!

I mean that baby! We love you and your hair! The kindness you showed us in our hour of need, when we were just bereft, we can never repay you. Love you so much!

[Catherina]

41. Finances are better now

Don't do that. Finances are better now and I'm going to save a fortune on veggies this summer. One nice thing is my hair got long and it wouldn't have otherwise. I'd do it again for much longer if we ever had the chance. You're like a sister and I love you both so much :hug:

[anigbrowl]

17. Yael, I don't think this rumor has any solid foundation

It's just pundits wondering aloud what happens next. I haven't seen anything to suggest it's based on 'sources close to the _____ campaign' or anything like that.

[Yael]

20. In this entire campaign season, I have been impressed

with the speed at which the Obama campaign addresses issues -- be they rumors or blatant ads. From even before I was in the Obama camp.

Their silence on this is deafening.

Why I wrote to give my opinion.

Interesting -- I have never used the contact link on their website before. Never felt the need as we had direct access to a paid local staffer. This just felt warranted tonight.

[anigbrowl]

30. I see what you mean. But this rumor is different

because it's speculation about what might happen in the future vs something that's happened in the past (which might be a scandal). And really, I don't think it's anything more than Timmeh trying to sound foresighted. I'm pretty sure they'll respond, but probably through a surrogate. If they say anything too directly about it, Clinton will start saying he's not the nominee yet and that he's trying to sabotage her campaign or some shit.

[Tatiana]

33. Yael's point on the silence is a good one.

Hillary's camp could have put this rumor out there in self-interest, but the silence leads me to believe the Obama team is considering the merit of a possible compromise.

[Exultant Democracy]

22. First off this is common practice, second it will probably cost less and third there is

a way for Obama to move the money around so that funds that would only be available for the primary would be spent on it anyways so it isn't like he would be taking from the general fund.

Shoot republicans have been known to do this for dems and vice versa.

[Yael]

27. Did you bother to actually READ the OP or did you just skim the title?

Addressed already,

[jordi_fanclub]

35. Hi. As far as I can remember this issue was indirectly addressed some weeks ago...

Until I hear from this campaign that using non-voluntary middle class donations to repay Hillary Clinton's lack of fiscal management is OFF THE TABLE, I will not make another donation to this campaign. That goes for the DNC as well, and a similar email has been sent to Dr. Dean.

Did you remember that some 2-3 weeks ago Obama camp signed a kind of MOU with the DNC about campaign money.
Maybe it wasn't about "paying for other candidates" but for sure was a preliminary indication (as usual in Obama)
about the destination of the remaining funds... eheheh, seems he knows how to address the issues even before the fact. :)

[Big Blue Marble]

34. No matter how many times he "moves this money around"

it is money that we have contributed to him. We did not donate it to her.
Under no circumstances, do I want to help repay her loans.

She chose to stay in a race that she lost in February. She was able to do this
only because she had the millions to replenish her coffers. Any other candidate
would have been forced out by financial reality. We donors have had to spend extra
because she stayed in the race too long.

Now she is incurring more debt to stay in even longer. And we may have to subsidize her continuing
quixotic quest. No thank you.

[Exultant Democracy]

44. It happens all the time and I care about winning the white house a lot more then 15 million

that Obama can't spend in the General anyway.

[kaygore]

32. In all fairness to the Clintons

I have seen their home in Chappaqua, NY, and it is not a mansion. In fact, it is really just middle of the road for that town and not impressive at all. Yes, it was pricey but the homes in that town are pricey in general. In most towns in the U.S., the house would have cost considerable less. The Clintons bought location and not a lot of house. Although, the size of the house is just about what a couple their ages with all the children gone would find to be about the right size. The tabloids blew the house all out of proportion relative to other houses in the town.

[Big Blue Marble]

36. What does the size of their home in Chappaqua

have to do with whether we Obama donors are asked to repay their loans? They are worth over
50 million and Bill can earn back the 11.4 million in a couple of months at the rate he has been
cranking it in the last few years.

Do you remember that she also has a big home in DC? Do you have two big homes in high priced
areas? I certainly do not. Neither do most of those who have donated to his campaign. These two
people are immensely wealthy and are able to make much much more easily. They are both
money machines.

Hillary will probably write a book about her campaign and more that makeup what she has given
herself in loans.

[kaygore]

40. I was just trying to put things in context

I am actually an Obama supporter, but do think that sometimes we go overboard on our attacks--both sides--here on DU (and I am as guilty as anyone).

From what I have experienced and observed of the Obama Campaign, if they feel that paying Clinton's debts is a sound option, then I trust them (and I have donated both time AND money to Obama's campaign). The campaign is well planned and organized and it values both the grassroots and our efforts. They would not squander our time and money needlessly.

[Yael]

43. You and I obviously have different frames of reference

Here is the aerial view of the buildings that comprise the Chappaqua property:



And the mansion in Washington DC:

[chill_wind]

38. McAuliffe could bail her out? He's done it before. About that house in NY---

It's the sort of house that everyone wants and only investment bankers can afford. But with the help of a rich friend, Bill and Hillary Clinton, who are saddled with hefty legal bills, last week bought a house that is comfy and airy, stately but not flashy, in a leafy New York suburb for $1.7 million. The challenge was not cost, or suiting the requirements of the Secret Service, but the dilemma, familiar to house-hunting Yuppies, of the Gracious Old House/Small Crummy Kitchen.


(see description- snipped)

All for only $9,000 a month, the cost of the Clinton's $1.35 million mortgage payment. With $5 million of unpaid legal bills and few assets, the Clintons, who haven't owned a house since 1982, when they moved back into the Arkansas governor's mansion, needed some friendly help. They turned first to former chief of staff Erskine Bowles, a wealthy investment banker, as part of a group of friends who would buy a house for the Clintons. But the group deal never materialized, and Bowles backed out. (Reached by NEWSWEEK, he said: "I don't have any comment at all.")

Real-estate and financial mogul Terry McAuliffe stepped in and supplied the bank with $1.35 million in collateral, to be paid off or refinanced in five years. McAuliffe has bailed out the Clintons before: he was the Democrats' chief fund-raiser who built a surprisingly large $42 million war chest for Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign. An amiable Clinton golfing buddy who, perhaps as much as any friend, stood by the president during the Lewinsky scandal, McAuliffe is also raising money for Hillary's Senate campaign. While unorthodox, McAuliffe's sugar-daddy role on the Clinton house appears to be perfectly legal.

more

http://www.newsweek.com/id/89495?tid=relatedcl

Maybe the hard werkin' blue collar pair can downscale, while they pay off their own debts and write their memoirs. I'm not worried about their finances.

[SoCalDem]

39. Why would they even NEED a mortgage? Didn't they just pay cash?

With 109M "earned", one would think that they would not need a mortgage by now, at least..on either house..

and SHE should pay the shortage out of her own money.. Since she got slammed with 11 in a row losses, she has not had a mathematical chance anyway, so all the money she raised/spent/owes since then is strictly because she WANTED to spend it..

a while back I read somewhere that a campaign of Bill's was still in the red..that's obscene..but rich people get freebies and debts forgiven all the time.. It's just us little people who will get hounded to the ends of the earth for payment of a samll debt..:grr: