SuperDs continued hesitancy is the wrong message and hurts our chances in November

[FrenchieCat]

Consider the math, and consider that Hillary Clinton can only win if Superdelegates in drove choose her over Obama.

In otherwords, all eyes will now turn to the SuperDelegates.

If superdelegates continued to be portrayed as hesitating in which way they are going to go, via their silence, it weakens the eventual Democratic nominee. It communicates to all voters that even our very own elected party members aren't showing "confidence" in our winner of pledged delegates, and that's not a good message.

Added to the fact that Delegates are being said to be seen as weary due to Obama's skin color (coded as the Wright issue and his difficulty with Working Whites and White Women) sends a terrible message to our nation and about the Democratic party's real values.

I believe that unless superdelegates make a decisive choice one way or the other in large numbers soon, like within the next 48 hours, I believe that they are doing the Democratic party no favors.

There is a reason that our party is sometimes seen as timid and undecisive. This is a prime example.

I give Kudos to those Superdelegates who have gotten off the fence. Those who don't, should understand that they are now the ones handing a possible victory to John McCain.

[anonymous171]

1. Can we get rid of them?

[FrenchieCat]

26. I think a lot of things should be considered.....

[mkultra]

2. hey got 4 today

[FrenchieCat]

5. I understand.......

But why would voters deciding between Obama and McCain get any message of confidence that they are making the right decision, if the Democratic party itself can't come to that conclusion.

Again, terrible message to our country in reference to racial Unity even within the Democratic party.

And the Hillary campaign raising doubts (and nothing else) on Barack Obama that something else could come out, again is doing great destruction to our eventual nominee.

The longer the Democratic party as a whole take to back Barack Obama, the more harm is done in a myriad of ways.

This is really sad.

[KSinTX]

13. Not so, IMHO

This is an awful lot for a person who had once been viewed as inevitable to swallow and her political allies are likely experiencing shock. There is an entire arm of the Democratic party that had hitched their fortunes to the Clintons and had this whole election thought out well in advance. This is not a happy day for them and I'm sure years of planning being shattered takes a few days to sink in.

This is not a particularly bad day for the party and it will require a great deal of strategy to undo some of the harm that has already been done. This likely won't be done in a day.

[FrenchieCat]

19. I wasn't asking that it be done in a day.......

But what I am saying is the longer it takes, the more the Democratic party appear to buy into the fact that being Black is a liability for our Nominee. It really doesn't have to be perceived that way as actions are part of what shapes public opinion. Because I will attest that whatever liabilities one can argue due to Obama's skin color, there is also great benefit to be derived due to it, if that was the narrative chosen and stuck to.

[mkultra]

14. The SDs dont want to be seen as making the decision for us.

it must be clear before the bulk acts.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

66. It has been clear for 2 months.

:shrug:

[lapfog_1]

15. But it should have been 40... and Pelosi and Reid and Gore

should be in the lead.

It's over, it's time to announce it's over. It's time to MoveOn.

[Eurobabe]

3. Plays into that awful "spineless liberal" meme that we all despise

Come on SuperDs, make UP your minds!!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

12. They may have good reason to be afraid

going against what may be a powerful and vindictive duo. Even if they don't occupy the White House.

:scared:
:hide:

[Eurobabe]

25. Oh good GOD, then that is ALL the more reason to end this now

Get the Clintons out of the party if they are going to act like Primary terrorists! :eyes:

[DangerDave921]

4. The convention matters

I say fight it out at the convention. Isn't that what a convention is for -- to debate and discuss issues and declare a nominee? Why have a convention if the result is pre-ordained? Why have SD's if everyone (media pundits and voters) demand that they vote along with the slim majority of primary voters?

SD's have a role in the process as designed by the Dem party. They need to analyze the situation and vote according to their own beliefs and timetables. They have a valid say in who the Dems nominate to run for president. If they're supposed to be rubber-stamps, why have them? We should then just change the rules to say that the candidate LEADING in delegates after the primaries wins. That's not the rule. SD's are here for just such a purpose -- to decide the nominee when neither wins it outright.

[wileedog]

7. You want to do this shit until August?

Not to mention losing months of time to organize and fight against McCain because we can't decide that the candidate with the most delegates and the most votes is actually the winner?

[DangerDave921]

60. Winner is a misnomer

Obama is not yet the "winner." He's the "leader." Different thing.

I think it's a 90% done deal at this point. But Hillary is going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the room. She may even file federal lawsuits to get an injunction to seat the delegates from MI and FL. Don't think she doesn't have a team of lawyers who have already written the briefs.

Hey, everyone wanted Gore and Kerry to fight to the death in 00 and 04. Hillary is doing the same thing.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Analyze what situation?

[thoughtcrime1984]

10. Convention fights have ALWAYS led to a GE loss, terrible idea

It WILL NOT happen, one way or another. He will wrap this up on May 20th or June 3rd.

[PVnRT]

22. How'd that work for the GOP in 1976?

Although I do agree that the superdelegates need to be discarded. Idiotic system.

[cali]

Nope. The convention is largely a formality in this day and age

The purpose of the convention is now to unify the party and get on the same page and generate enthusiasm and good press. And anyone with any knowledge of history knows that it hasn't worked out so well for dems when the convention is a battle.

[thoughtcrime1984]

6. I had read somewhere that they are now encouraged to wait until June 4

to let this play out, as we have what is close to a presumptive nominee. That would be with the stipulation that she no longer goes negative against Obama. That way, all 50 states have been energized with a meaningful primary/caucus, and it also eliminates the MSM barbs that would occur should Obama lose in WV and KY (and he would) to a candidate that is no longer even running. If she insists on continuing the kitchen sink and the nuclear option, then they may come forward sooner.

[Cant trust em]

8. If we don't get something by the weekend news cycle it's not good

This should break by Friday.

[FrenchieCat]

16. That's what I'm saying; 48 hours.

This hesitancy makes it appear that a Black candidate is a "Problem" that needs to be pondered. I believe that Black voters are going to start resenting this.

Ironically, I recall what happened with the press when Joe Biden made the remark that Obama was Clean and Articulate. They bemoaned Joe for those remarks. That's why Obama was able to win Iowa....because at that time, race seemed of little consequences to the individual running...which is what, as Democrats we are supposed to be striving for.

The fact that the Hillary campaign kind of made race an issue, and that the media bought into it by promoting racial division as their entire conversation and analysis for the last 3 months, set race relations back 20 years.

It is the Democratic party officials that need to take the lead by stepping up to the plate to right this wrong, to shape perceptions...

giving fodder that race should be an "issue" to be considered is very harmful.

[psychmommy]

29. i am already resenting this.

the goalpost keeps being moved. this is the oldest trick in the book. we learn the rules of the game, we play by the rules and then they change the rules when it looks like we may win. this is ridiculous. it is a signal to me that this is going to be stolen. ok next he has to jump through a flaming hoop, while balancing plates with his mouth and hands, while riding a unicycle-win all of the upcoming primaries and be prepared to joust with hill and bill in full knight regalia at the convention. wtf.

[amandabeech]

32. Are you saying that you want to change the rules to eliminate the superdelegates,

or are you refering to the Clintons' efforts to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations?

I'm confused.

[psychmommy]

38. i am not requesting a rules change.

if obama was running against anyone else the party would have stepped in and stopped this train wreck. how about we use the same rules and parameters instead of making up stuff as we go along. there was no popular vote. there was no electoral vote-not in primaries. the party sees she can't possibly win without theft and they still hold this contest open. this is bullcrap.

[amandabeech]

48. I don't think that the party controls any candidate who can get some money together.

No one could control the candidates in '68 or '72, and we ended up with with Humphrey and McGovern, one a candidate of the party elders and the other most decidedly not.

Back in '80 nobody in the party told Teddy to sit down and shut up. He had money and every right under party rules to keep going and he did.

This is another very, very hard-fought primary, and I don't see any precedent for the party elders to come in and stop a candidate who has some money and the right under the rules to keep going.
They haven't done it in the past, and I don't think that they should break the party rules and precedent and do it now.

Obama's a tough candidate. Let him get out there and win on his own. This is his first big election fight as far as I know, and I think that he will learn a lot by finishing the job.

I'm an Edwards supporter, by the way, and voted for him in my primary even though he had pulled out. I'll vote for whichever candidate wins the nomination, because each of them is much, much better than McCain!

[psychmommy]

65. the superd's have sway.

they could get behind him and end this mess. the whole point is that their waiting is showing me and others that this puppy is up for grabs and it isn't. she can't win, she can continue but they need to show their support for him.

[Cant trust em]

31. This is going to be a tricky perception to shake

Like you said, we have to come out now to say that it's not going to be an issue. But for some it clearly is an issue, and by addressing it, it makes it more of an issue. It's like we have to pretend that there isn't a wall to break down, but subtly work to destroy it. The best tool for that is the natural charisma of Obama.

Any thoughts?

[Skwmom]

59. I think the impact on young voters is being overlooked.

The image of the Democratic Party as the party of civil rights and inclusion will be severely damaged and young voters who hold these ideals will not just automatically opt for the Democratic Party. I'm sure the Republicans will use this as part of their strategy in courting young voters.

[algol]

11. I'm thinking the next 48 hours will be very telling

The media coverage has taken a very decided turn against the idea that Hillary still has a shot. Andrea Mitchell reported that the Clinton campaign collectively shit a brick when Tim Russert called the nomination last night. Its a very different landscape today, and I'm thinking that it will all be decided by the end of the week.

That and a $2 might get you a small cup of coffee.

[TheDonkey]

17. I agree, I am very dissapointed at those on the fence. OBAMA HAS IT LOCKED UP

how do they realistically think Hillary can win?

[NJSecularist]

18. The superdelegates hesitancy is a good thing.

Hopefully they are losing realizing that Obama is putting a McGovern like coalition together in the general election. Which is why the SDs need to hold on until the convention.

[democracy1st]

58. please vote for Mr McCain

[IsItJustMe]

20. In my view, these SD's that have not come forward by now are guttless wonders.

[pompano]

30. I smell something more....

sinister, but I can't find my tin-foil hat so I'll STFU.

Suffice to say something is amiss. We, that weathered the election coup of 2000 have a 6th sense of that feeling you get when you know something is wrong but you just can't quite put your finger on it.

This is Deja' Vu all over again.

The Supers need to move quick. This isn't even drip..drip...it's a mist.

It is just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong, Gawd, I do.

[IsItJustMe]

34. You smell it and I smell it. Hope we are both wrong. I saw Carter the other day on TV and he said

that the SD's should go with whoever wins the majority of the pledged delegates. Then, I think it was Wolf, told him, well that would be Obama.

Now, I always considered Carter to be a very straight forward and honest guy, but his response made me ask WTF?

He said that the election was not over yet, so that was not decided. In my view, his response was feeble and not very honest.

I had a funny feeling after that. Who knows? This has been on fricked up race.

[pompano]

47. I hope it was...

Carter just getting a little ahead of himself.

Carter, you're right is a fine gentleman. Sometimes I wish we had more Democrats just like him. Did you know that man is in his 80's and still gets out and helps build Habitat for Humanity Homes? I have always thought the world of him and hiw wife Rose. Somewhere around here I still have an ol' novelty can of Billy Beer.

I hope they do something about the Primaries next time. It's terribly confusing the way it is. It also seems like they just make up the rules as they go along.

[amandabeech]

50. His mother was named Rose. His wife was named Rosalyn. n/t

[pompano]

52. I meant Rosalyn....

just a typo. I do that from time to time. :-)

Thanks.

[amandabeech]

62. Rose has been in the news posthumously because Jimmy recently

wrote a book about her. I saw him on one of the talk shows, Charlie Rose, I think, talking about the book. Maybe you heard about the book too, recently.

It's an easy mistake. We all make them!

[mamalone]

21. You know what?

I completely and absolutely agree with you:hug:

These people are supposed to be our leaders. They are supposed to act with courage and vision... at least theoretically, right? They all seem so timid. It's embarrassing.

[Bucky]

23. Out of a sense of decency, I imagine some are waiting for Clinton to grasp reality

It's bad for party unity if it looks like the Supers pushed her out of the race. Marketing wise, it's better if she takes the hint and gets all magnanimous in endorse Obama without further pushing.

[FrenchieCat]

24. So our Superdelegates are waiting on Hillary Clinton to give them the OK?

What leaders! :sarcasm:

[LVjinx]

43. Yes, but she only has a narrow window of opportunity before they endorse

It would be better for her, our nominee, and November if she spoke about this now instead of later. She could do herself a world of good by conceding under her own terms, rather than because she's been left behind. That said, she doesn't even need to concede. Continuing this contest, fueling voter enthusiasm, is a good thing. But it should be made clear that Obama will be the nominee, and I think there is some need for her to admit she's unlikely to win, and that she needs to run a positive campaign.

[SoCalDem]

27. West VA is next week.. they may be waiting to jump AFTER

she "wins".. THAT would be a very BLUNT answer for her..

To jump now..after he won, would not send as vivid of a message, as would waiting until SHE won WV..

[pompano]

39. I would agree....

except that the Republicans are in full swing right now trying to figure out a way to defeat Obama in November. We better start worrying more about beating McCain in November than playing crisis counselor to Hillary's hurt feelings. Not one time during this whole campaign has Hillary lifted a finger to care about someone elses feelings, unless it be a facade to help her out later.

We don't have the time to keep reinventing ways to tell her it's over. Time is not on our side. Then where does it stop? Lets let her win two in a row, it'll make the point twice as good? It's easier to tell her no out West, after Oregon, she'll get the point so much better? In the meantime we are loosing ground day by day. These are Republicans we are up against. This isn't Hillary's fault I'll agree but look...we waited 7 weeks for Penn. (one State) primary to roll around then anothe 4 weeks for In. NC. to roll around. 11 weeks/almost three months for 3 States and we are virtually no further down the road. No candidate could beat a Republican if they are bogged down for months on end trying to give another candidate a "kiss" goodbye.

Either get the show on the road or get ready for Bush's third term.

[SoCalDem]

41. i agree.. our system stinks.. we need regional primaries

One region per month and wind it all up by April.. That gives the candidate time to rest, raise money & choose cabinet people..

I think the congresscritter SDs are scared to jump too early.. they are on the ballot in Nov..

[pompano]

46. Your right...

it wouldn't surprise me one bit. I am beginning to rethink this whole Super Delegate thing alltogether. One man one vote. They are no more Super than anyone else? :shrug:

[dcindian]

28. Exactly why it is so hard to get dems in the white house.

If our party leadership had a backbone the white house would have been ours for the last 7 years.

[graycem]

33. I'm getting pretty frustrated

with them too. What the heck else do they possibly need to know to make up their minds? Are they enjoying the attention a little too much? Are they holding out to find a way to give it to her because of the "he can't win because he's black"? Are they just spineless and afraid of standing by a decision one way or the other? If they don't announce soon, one way or the other, THEY will be partly to blame if there is a loss.

[democracy1st]

35. I don't understand this party

[my3boyz]

36. NO...

I think they don't want to be perceived as pushing her out. They don't want to anger her supporters. I think they are doing the right thing. I think they should slowly come out and should not come out at once.

[K Gardner]

37. You are absolutely correct. The MSM is not even trying to hide this argument, nor is the Klinton

Kamp. They have nothing left but the "white won't vote for him" argument, and it is disgusting.

[Cha]

40. Hey, maybe

tomorrow and Friday is The Big Spotlight on SuperDees Days!

[David Zephyr]

42. Agree.

Well said!

[Lisa0825]

44. There is so much going on beind the scenes that I won't even try to guess....

I think they do not want to all come forward quickly for reasons.... maybe they want her to stay in long enough to win her easy states so Obama can go out on another win, just for the sake of public perception. Maybe they are negotiating her "reward" for dropping out and campaigning for Obama (governorship has been rumored). Maybe they want the perception of a divided party to give the Rethugs a false sense of security, knowing they really have a plan to unify the team in a way that will satisfy everyone.... who knows? I am sure there is a ton of strategizing going on in that back room.

[Inuca]

45. A thought

Maybe the Obama camp does NOT want a deluge of SDs right now. Clinton has to be handled with kid gloves at this point. And some of her supporters even more so. A deluge of endorsements at this point may be viewed as humiliating, and I do not think that's what the O campaign wants. We do not know what is happenning behind the scenes. They may have many more commitment to endorse but do not want to make them public as yet. But if this is indeed the case, I am sure the Clinton camp also knows about it. It can be used as a bargaining chip, and that's done much better behind closed doors than in the public eye. Just speculating, but here are at least a few major endorsements (off the top of my head, Pelosi and Clyburn) that are obviously not coming out for political reasons that have nothing to do with cowardice.

[Forkboy]

49. We'll be fine.

Patience, Grasshopper.

[2rth2pwr]

51. Must be racism.

[democracy1st]

57. Nope more like weakness no ability to fight the rightwing or oppose the war

[Skwmom]

53. I'm hearing more and more people asking - Where are the

Superdelegates? They are sitting on the sidelines while Clinton tears down Obama as an elitist etc.

The Republicans are smart enough to make this argument to black voters as they court their vote.

I can't help but wonder what is up with the superdelegates? It's like they are waiting on the sidelines, hoping that Clinton will be successful in tearing down Obama so that they can then say that "he is unelectable, I have to go with Clinton." Of course, once Clinton is actually attacked her poll numbers will plummet so her whole "electability" argument is a farce.

[ShortnFiery]

55. I wonder how many of the superdelegates are MILLIONAIRES or Upper-Middle Class?

In other words, if it's not their FINANCIAL FUTURE that's truly at stake, then it's just all "a fucking GAME" to far TOO MANY of these power players.

[FrenchieCat]

56. Agreed. There is a lot in them bags of Clinton that has not even been

touched at all. If she thinks the Republicans aren't gonna let her have it, she is in for a rude awakening!

[ShortnFiery]

54. Agreed! I can't believe that Nancy Pelosi, et. al., are so "out of touch" with how BURNED

OUT the Average American is with this seemingly never-ending Democratic Primary!?! :thumbsdown:

[rove karl rove]

61. SDs are between a rock and a hard place...

I don't think it's a sign of weakness at all to still be on the fence - when the primaries are over in a month or so, then it's time to decide, before the DNC. I don't approve of that SD in CA selling his vote - the whole SD system needs to be tweaked as soon as this election year is wrapped up.

[hokies4ever]

63. Undeclared is not the same as undecided

and that's the logic mistake the media is making. Many of the superdelegates say that they believe in the '50 state strategy', essentially letting every state have a vote before they decide. This is a great way to increase voter registration in many states and might make more states in play during the general election.

Also (from my subject title) undeclared is not the same as undecided. Obama has about another 20 to 30 add-on delegates that are officially undecided right now not included in his total. Also, if you listen to what many superdelegates are saying, they are clearly leaning to one candidate and not the other, and are not split down the middle like many in the media suggest. I mean, does anyone actually think Pelosi would endorse Hillary in a million years?

[RB TexLa]

64. People finding themselves in a powerful position are not going to give the power up

so soon. They have this in their hands and they are going to make sure they get something from it. They all are going to want to be the last bloc of superdelegates to give their votes and secure whatever highway or government facility for their geographic region or a commitment on a particular issue.

People don't just give that sort of power away quickly.

[DangerDave921]

70. I'd offer a competition. . .

Whichever candidate can promise me the most free shit -- movie passes, free restaurants, three-day retreats at their summer homes, golf outings. A year's supply of Netflix and all you can eat at the KFC might do it for me. lol

[Major Hogwash]

67. Like one guy told me last week, if they were Generals in 1940, we'd all be speaking German now.

Because they would never have reacted to the threat of Hitler fast enough.

So true.

[TragedyandHope]

68. Yes, it also strikes me as odd

The only thing I can think of is that Obama may be holding them in reserve in case Hillary tries some kind of crazy end run at the last minute. (Like something to do with the rules committee.)

[geiger]

69. how can you possibly impune the motives of superdelegates, esp in states where votes haven't been

taken yet.

the superdelegates are in a difficult position at best, it having already been suggested that they will "fix" the election agst the popular will, irreparably undermining confidence in the process.

[JimGinPA]

71. I Think There Is A Reasonable Explanation FrenchieCat...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5883717&mesg_id=5883717

[stillcool]

72. It is their choice...

and they support or choose to abstain for their own reasons. I think that allowing the race-baiting to continue does not speak well for the Democratic Party. But it is what it is. The Democratic Party may now be the party of minority blue collar whites only, and Corporate Interests.