okay....there's some buzz on blogs about Obama's VP....and over at TPM

[KoKo]

Blogger MJ Rosenberg is suggesting one of the women governors. Some commenters said there would be some very angry Hillary supporters who would wonder why a female governor would be more acceptable than Hillary. Some others suggested Jim Webb or Mark Warner and some here on DU have suggested Wes Clark.

I wouldn't have thought of Hillary as a VP,(even though I've seen it suggested here on DU), because I didn't think she would ever consider it. But, now I'm thinking she might and the Super Delegates might very well urge her to. It would solve the problem that many have had with the "Clintons being back in the WH and what would she do about Bill," because they would be in the VP's Quarters and Bill could continue whatever he's doing now without gaining much attention. Hillary has proven she could handle many of the duties of former VP's by being a very engaging emissary "stand-in" for the President in official duties in foreign countries and as a policy wonk in meetings. She would also be a great liason with the Congress having served in the Senate and having many connections that Obama doesn't have with House Members and others power brokers in DC.

It just might work and it would be the perfect solution for those who voted for Hillary who would definitely vote for the Obama/Hillary ticket in the Fall. Just look at those incredible numbers of Dem voters who've been coming out in record numbers. We don't want to lose half the voters in Novermber and I think Dems I know who wouldn't vote for Obama or McCain would be very happy with that ticket.

What do you think? Could it work?

[DrDan]

1. considering the Iraq quagmire and the other war in Afghanistan

I think Clark would be an excellent choice.

He would fill that military gap of Obamas.

[DrDan]

71. and let me add this re Clark

Just listening to Charlie Crist - carrying on about how much a hero john mccain is.

Wes Clark would wipe out that argument - a highly decorated 4-star general, West Point valdectorian, Rhodes scholar vs a navy captain who finished near the bottom of his class at Annapolis (894 out of 899).

[ORDagnabbit]

2. there has been a bush or a clinton in the white house since 1981...thats enough reason to not put

her on the ticket for me.

[ORDagnabbit]

12. 81-2008

reagan - bush 80-84
reagan - bush 84-88
bush - quayle 88-92
clinton - gore 92-96
clinton - gore 96-00
bush - cheney 00-04
bush - cheney 04-08

someone new now please....

[KoKo]

15. Neither Bill nor Hillary would be "in" the White House, though. Obama would

have the power to assign duties to Hillary and Bill wouldn't be in the picture. Very different from her being President with Bill wandering around unleashed. In appearance and in policy.

[PoliticalAmazon]

26. Are you serious? She's lost the primary and she's STILL trying to dictate how it is run...

...They would be constantly undermining Obama's authorty.

Would you really want Obama to be slimed by the Clintons and their continuing evolving scandals? Bill is already involved with another woman (Belinda Stronach). Do you want us to suffer another 8 years of Bill Clinton's dick setting the national agenda? Or Obama being slimed, like Gore was, by being politically associated with Bill Clinton?

[WA98296]

65. TOTALLY agree with that.

[SoCalDem]

3. JANET NAPOLITANO would be MY choice

she's VERY popular in AZ and wouldn;t it be a HOOT if we won AZ?

I think they vote for Grandpa because he's a habit..like biting your nails..

She would be 58 after 2 terms, and is PERFECT position to be the first woman president..a woman who did it truly on here own.. a REAL female role model..

I'm hoping for Janet :)

and it would truly TEST the Hillary diehards.. do they truly want a woman in the White House? or were they caught up in the Bill-Hill fantasy

[MonkeyFunk]

7. Obama Napolitano

sounds like a pasta dish :D

[SoCalDem]

11. sounds tasty :)

:rofl:

[anigbrowl]

35. Me too.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. I like her. I think this is a choice to be looked at.

Sibelius, too.

[SoCalDem]

46. the only issue i have with Sibelius is that Kansas really NEEDS her

and if she became the vp, they might end up with a crackpot republican governor..:(

[JerseygirlCT]

47. Yup, there's always that.

That's my concern with just about any senator. Unless we know for certain that we'll have a huge majority in the senate next time, I don't think we can spare anyone. I'm finding it hard to think of states where we could be certain that another Dem. would be appointed to replace a senator, even. And even if you do - it's still a crapshoot about who you get.

I think a governor makes much more sense.

[Mz Pip]

4. I'm not all that opposed to the idea

Then when there's an opening on the SUpreme Court he could nominate Hillary and fill the VP slot with someone else.

I'd love to see Hillary on the SCOTUS. It would make the RW crazy for at least 25 years, maybe more. :evilgrin:

[DearAbby]

16. LOL!

That would put a bunch of GOP panties and shorts in a wad, eh? :::giggles:::

[wmbrew0206]

17. double post.

*

[wmbrew0206]

22. Can you say Fillibuster?

The right wingers would certainly have a field day filibustering a Hillary nomination to the SCOTUS.

They would also say, with good reason, you probably don't want a lawyer who couldn't pass the DC bar exam on the SCOTUS.

[Mz Pip]

30. If I remember correctly

you don't have to even be a lawyer to be appointed to SCOTUS, though I don't know if we've ever had one who wasn't.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. Now THAT I'd like to see.

Especially if it happens because of Scalia's or Thomas' retirement!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shraby]

6. I don't like the idea of her anywhere near

the white house, but I would guess it's Obama's call on who he wants to work with in the oval office. It's his decision to make, he's earned that right.

[Erin Elizabeth]

8. ...

there would be some very angry Hillary supporters who would wonder why a female governor would be more acceptable than Hillary

Because they wouldn't be Hillary.

[GarbagemanLB]

9. He needs a national security VP. McCain's strengths are his credentials in those areas and his

perceived 'patriotism'. Having a former military officer as VP would do wonders.

[Larkspur]

27. Yep, that's why Jim Webb is my #1 choice for Obama's VP

and Wes Clark is my #2.

Jim Webb is an economic populist and knows how to attack the Republicans and is not afraid to do so. He has a son in Iraq so getting our troops out of Iraq ASAP gives him credibility about building an Iraq Withdrawal plan. Webb was also a Republican and served in the Reagan Admin so that could attract moderate Republicans. Webb has the air that blue collar workers can identify with.

Wes Clark was NATO's Supreme Commander and would also be a strong national security asset to Obama's ticket.

The Kansas Gov gave a poor response to Bush's speech a few months ago, so she is not ready for the national spotlight yet. Not sure about the AZ Gov's public speaking abilities and if she would be fearless in attacking the Republicans.

Hillary would be a drag on Obama's ticket.

[Shakespeare]

52. Not only that, but Jim Webb is very good at getting under McCain's skin.

You could almost assure a public McCain meltdown at some point during the campaign, and it would be a beautiful thing to behold.

Webb's a bit of a maverick (in the BEST of ways), and would be an excellent military/national security addition for Obama.

Edwards was my guy, but the prospect of an Obama/Webb ticket makes me positively giddy.

[SoxFan]

28. I agree; has to be someone w/ foreign policy chops

Clark, Richardson, Biden, and Bayh all have a decent background. Clark and Bayh are also Clinton backers, which would be seen as something of a peace offering to their side.

[JVS]

10. Dale Earnhardt Jr.

[ShortnFiery]

13. I'm burning out on "feigned indignation" of HRC's supporters. eom

[KoKo]

21. umm, I voted for Obama in NC, yesterday...and I don't have any indignation

feigned or not, just so you know.

[Bucky]

14. It would (1) remind everyone of her "not ready" arguments, (2) validate those arguments, and (3)...

alienate many of the crossover voters that Obama needs to pick up in November. I think of it as a hell of a risk.

[TexanDem]

18. it would never work - Clintons would overpower the Pres. One of her supporters would be good choice.

[NJmaverick]

19. Really it's to the point where every candidate, should be judged by what they bring to the ticket

My belief is that the choice should be one that buffers the negatives Obama brings (his lack of experience, espcially foreign policy and defense and his ethnic background making some people uncomfortable).

I also believe that the choice should be one that fits well with his campaign theme of changing things in Washington, which sort of rules out any of the DC insiders.

I think it's safe to say the repukes will try to scare people. They will try and scare people with terrorism and the subtle racist suggestion that a black man in office will punish the white people.


As such I suggest a white male, with a strong military background, who is not a Washington insider.

Seems to me the clear cut choice is Clark.

[Adelante]

20. The Clintons can't be trusted

I am sorry to say it. Obama doesn't need them at his side. He needs people he can trust.

[KoKo]

25. How do you know that Obama thinks as badly of the Clintons as we here on DU, do.

He could certainly strategically use Hillary for his own purposes.

[Adelante]

45. I don't know

I think he's smarter than I am and I figured it out.

[movonne]

23. I think it stinks...no hillary for vp....they (her and bill) would be trying

to take the spotlight away for Obama...she should go back to her senate seat and he should do his speaking tours...make millions and pay their bills...

[marions ghost]

24. I dont think we'd lose half the voters if Hill is not on the ticket

because of the total disaster the Repugs have made of things

Sometimes the compromise solution that seems good in theory is not necessarily the right solution...

He does have to bring the party together and capitalize on these gains but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I'm in favor of fresh blood in the White House/VP house.

[KoKo]

29. I'd agree if she wasn't still getting voters to turn out for her....

Alot of female voters for her would be very angry and alienated and female voters are still the biggest group voting in the Dem Party.

[Shoelace]

38. YES! Popular vote count so far: Obama; 12,891,604: Clinton; 12,217,745

that's excluding Fl., Mi. We cannot discount this many people!

See details here which includes all sorts of figures:

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/clinton-obama-popular-vote.html

[KoKo]

40. Thanks for the numbers and link....n/t

[KoKo]

60. kick again for numbers and link....... People on GDP don't read enough

so sometimes, some of us...don't get their "train of thought." Counterpoint...and Debunking takes time... It's easier to "Pot Shot."

[marions ghost]

43. respectfully to Hillary supporters

I think we DO have to reach out to angry and alienated female voters. We have to figure out exactly why they are angry and alienated (I'm sensing a wide diversity of reasons) and make some substantial effort to address that directly, rather than thinking Hillary on the ticket would automatically take care of the problem. Obama and Co. need to get on that right away. It's obvious to me that these women want to be heard.

[ieoeja]

31. "great liason with the Congress"

All the rumour mongers write that the congress-critters despise her. EVERYBODY says her health plan failed precisely because she refused to work with congress, preferring to dictate to them instead. I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest this has gotten any better.

What would Obama campaign on in the general election? He would have to toss Hope and Change out the window after signing on the old guard.

Obama would look like the weak front man for the Clintons. It was okay for GW because he is a Republic. But Democrats are not allowed to look weak.

McCain/Huckabee campaign theme: "Obama's own running mate says McCain would make a better commander in chief".

All the right-leaning Clinton haters who are sick of Shrub would flock to McCain anyway if Obama has a Clinton on the ticket.

[marions ghost]

39. yeah

that "McCain and I are commander-in-chief material, Obama not so much" comment--that really DOES have the potential to hurt a joint ticket. I don't think a joint ticket would seem "unifying" after all this Battle of the Titans...the public might have some justifiable fear and loathing after all this relentless immersion in it. We'd all be waiting for the next skirmish reflexively.

Basically I just don't think it would WORK, never mind the symbolism of unity.

[JackORoses]

32. Hillary could have been the VP after Wisconsin, instead she went on the Warpath

She will not be in an Obama Administration.

[rniel]

33. Well

Maybe Obama should just choose McCain. McCain has great years of experience and Hillary has that speech. :P

[TexanDem]

34. Hill and Bill hardly represent change. It would hurt him.

[Dr Fate]

36. I prefer a Clintonite to Clinton herself- like Wes Clark.

That way Clintons have more access but they do not drag down the ticket as to the irrational Clinton hater voters.

[Stop Cornyn]

37. "Hillary supporters who would wonder why a female governor would be more acceptable than Hillary"???

How about if exclude from consideration (1) all candidates who have a disapproval rating that exceeds 50%, (2) all candidates who have been caught in a huge lie about running for cover during sniper fire in Tuzla, (3) all candidates who have hired union-buster/fair trade opponent Mark Penn as a chief strategist, and (4) all candidates who have said that they would obliterate Iran from the map.

If we set those criteria as the threshold for all VP potential candidates, would that avoid the awkward questions of "very angry Hillary supporters who would wonder why a female governor would be more acceptable than Hillary"?

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Other than those now saying they'd vote for McCain rather than

a Democrat (which does make one wonder about how dedicatedly Democratic they are to begin with...), what does she bring? Huge negatives? Bad memories? A husband who can't keep his mitts off?

I think I'd rather see a new start. And another woman would be terrific, IMO.

[sandnsea]

44. Hillary. Is. A. Lying.

Liar. What does it take to get it through her supporters' heads.

[elfin]

49. I STILL really like Dodd

Experience, gravitas etc.

Also, as a former Clarkie (before he sold out to Hillary), still like Clark

Also Richardson -- but he is a right brainer like Obama - big picture, not obsessive on details, like others might be. But I do like him, I really do.

Long shot -- Warner the Wannabe before reality struck on his Presidential aspirations.

[Peace Patriot]

54. I will never get over Dodd's part in destroying our election system.

He was the chief architect, on the Dem side--working with the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress (Tom Delay and Bob Ney)--to pass the so-called "Help America Vote Act," in Oct 02 (same month as the Iraq War Resolution)--a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle by which our election system was quickly converted to electronic voting, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit-recount controls.

In my opinion, that WAS the fascist coup--the means devised by our global corporate predator rulers of shoving the Iraq War down the throats of the American people (56% of whom opposed it during that pre-war period--circa Feb 03 (NYT poll; other polls 54-55%), and a whopping 70% of whom oppose it now).

I cannot believe that Dodd did that in ignorance of its consequences. He's just too Bilderberg Group for me. The members of our national political establishment may all be part of the Imperial project, with very few exceptions, and ALL of our party leaders are guilty of SILENCE about the rigged voting machines, but Dodd's active role in this treasonous assault on the very basis of our democracy--our right to vote--is impossible to forget or forgive. When he mouths his leftist lines now, I just see hypocrisy, that's all. I can't believe anything the man says.

[KoKo]

61. HAVA...and SEC Dergulation?.....I know...gone away....

There's much I like about him compared to Bush/Cheney... His wife seems very "down to earth" and "grounded." ...and he seemed to hold back against FISA Corruption being renewed. But, he was running for Pres. when he did that... But, still ...there might have been some good there....who knows. They are all so corrupt.

[RainDog]

50. it would be JFK/LBJ if Hillary is the vp

he doesn't need to be forced to keep watching his back if we're trying to go forward. JFK had to offer the nominee to LBJ b/c of Johnson's political clout in the south (this was before the racist part of the south left the democratic party).

LBJ took it, even though Robert Kennedy was horrified because Robert Kennedy knew the sort of politics the Kennedy presidency would get from LBJ. In order to deal with LBJ after the election, Kennedy sent him all over the place around the world to get him away from the halls of power in DC. LBJ was a tad egotistical (hey, talk to me while I take a crap, peon) so being shuffled out of the halls of power in D.C. made him a little ticked off. The nation and Obama do not need a replay of this scenario.

If you think Clinton -- the "clinton machine" -- is any less powerful, then you're too idealistic.

That's why I say that Clark would be a good choice. He is part of the Clinton base, but he is not labeled as an ideologue. He has military experience to assuage those who might have some concerns. He has far more foreign policy experience than Clinton. He's smart as shite and he gives a certain portion of the male population that seems to suffer some sort of... anxieties that they are also part of the process and have not been carried off to the island of Amazon women. He is also not as alienating to the Dean sector of the party simply b/c he's not the red hot core of Clintonism.

[Peace Patriot]

53. The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about Clark. But I want to

propose a "dark horse" woman candidate for VP: DEBRA BOWEN, CA Sec of State. Lifetime of public service in the CA legislature, still young, very, very, VERY smart, ferocious open-government advocate, spine of steel, has taken on Diebold and ES&S (and this, after they destroyed a previous Sec of State's career for suing Diebold just before the '04 election), and won the Sec of State office against a Repuke tide, with the strong backing of the Progressive Democrats. The reform of the Democratic Party that the Obama campaign represents in some ways can be said to have begun with this revolt of the PDs within the CA Dem Party, over the Dem nomination of Debra Bowen. (The state party establishment wanted another candidate who would have been a Diebold tool.)

And, not unimportantly, Debra Bowen is super-well-informed about our election system! As VP candidate, that could be one her jobs--trying to insure an honest vote count in November.

Regional strength: Obama is a mid-westerner with much more east coast vibes than west coast. Lot of voters out here in the west. A good old-fashioned, populist, California reformer (a la Hiram Johnson) might be just the thing. And the fact that she is a woman, of course, is a big plus.

Downsides?: No national experience (although California is so big and so multi-cultural, it is comparable to a mid-sized nation). But why not reach down a notch for one of these new reforming Democrats? A real reforming Democrat is damned hard to find on the national level, because our federal government and congress have become so fracking corrupt. 70% of the people want this Iraq War ended, and what does our new Democratic Congress--elected to end the war--do? They lard Bush-Cheney with billions more of our non-existent tax dollars to keep killing Iraqis until they sign over their oil rights! They have a worse approval rating than Bush! The federal government is TAINTED. And there aren't many governors either who have stood up to the Bush Junta. In fact, I can't think of one who has made any waves. Debra Bowen has done that--she has made waves in the pit of Puke corruption--the voting system.

Downside for California?: We would lose a much-needed reforming Sec of State, and Schwarzenegger would then appoint one of his Diebold cronies (as he did after they ran our previous reforming Sec of State out of office).

A fresh face! That's what I'm saying--a fresh face with huge, wonkish credentials, and great courage--and who would bring regional and sexual balance to the ticket.

Back to Clark for a moment: The national security issue is very convincing. Although I have some beefs with Clark--re depleted uranium, and also his imposition of U.S. policy on Yugoslavia--there is simply no question that he is, a) very, very smart, b) very, very competent, c) and very knowledgeable and experienced in areas where Obama is lacking--national security and the military. Also, I think Obama NEEDS to have someone watching his back with the "military-industrial complex." Clark would do that AND he would attack the vast corruption in the Defense Dept. that the Bushites have created.

And one final thing: Clark was right about the Iraq War. From the beginning. At times, he was the lone voice out there in corporate news monopoly Bushworld, during our darkest hours. I think both he and Obama do subscribe to the Imperial U.S., just a cleaner version of it. But we don't have any other choice at the moment--as to permitted candidates. They would make a good duo, for the clean-up part--which is not going to be easy. As for restoring our democracy, we need people like Debra Bowen, who know how it was taken away.

[Mme. Defarge]

51. Nope.

[KoKo]

55. Nope?

[Mme. Defarge]

57. Nope.

[David Zephyr]

56. I will consider your post.

It may, in the end, be necessary.

[Pisces]

58. No way, Jim Webb, or Biden gets my vote.

[KoKo]

59. Why? Can you give a little more info?

I still think all those who voted for Hillary are going to need some place to move to. It's not like the "Women's Vote" should be ignored...is it? Or is it? Even if they are "poor and uneducated..not having either started or finished College according to EXIT POLLS?

[Hamlette]

62. If its Hillary, I'd get a food taster n/t

[KoKo]

63. It's a quippy, snarky reply...but did you bother to read the OP? Food Taster?

I think not...But, if you have something to comment beyond snark...would love to hear it...have you thought about this? ARE you a DEMOCRAT?

[GetTheRightVote]

64. HRC has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Obama, why shoule he now

take her on as his VP, no way.

[KoKo]

69. He's a Uniter and is willing to work with everyone to build the Dem Party???

:shrug: What better way than to start with Hillary...if she's willing? Unite Dems rather than Unite Dems with Bush/Cheney Repugs?

[mystieus]

66. angry Hillary supporters who would wonder why a female governor would be more acceptable...

Maybe because Hillary doesn't want to be VP... has this even cross people minds?

[Gore1FL]

67. Not to mention aSenator/Senator ticket isn;t as strong.

Of course the bottom line is such a ticket crashes head on into his message of change.

[mmonk]

68. I would have no problem with it.

[KoKo]

70. thanks... your opinion as an Edwards then Obama supporter on this is good to hear....

I'm just thinking what's best for the party... uniting the two...even though it's not a fit many can deal with...would it make Dems stronger..in the end. :shrug: