Is it her "campaign bubble"? May 31 meeting? Or about a pending racism lawsuit against the DNC?

[madfloridian]

Is it maybe about that meeting on May 31 with the DNC rules committee? I am just not sure anymore.

I read today at TPM that the Clinton campaign's chief strategist said that NC was a success because they won white voters.

On the Hillary conference call, Hillary chief strategist Geoff Garin made the case for her electability in some of the most explicitly race-based terms I've heard yet.

Garin argued that the North Carolina contest, which Obama won by 14 points, represented "progress" for Hillary because she did better among white voters there than she did in Virginia.

I was thinking today that there is a hearing on May 31 about FL and MI delegates. By this point the seating even at the most favorable to her would make little or no difference in the outcome. So I wondered about something else.

When Garin mentioned getting more white votes in NC than in VA, and seemed proud of it....I thought about Victor DiMaio's latest lawsuit. It is the one accusing the DNC under Howard Dean of using reverse discrimination toward the white voters of Florida.

Suing DNC for discriminating against white people in FL, using Rule 11 to get to the Supreme Court

I would not have thought this case had anything to do with her decision, but hey...Garin brought up the white vote first.

South Carolina and Nevada were allowed to hold their primaries before February 5th because the high percentage of blacks and Hispanics in those states helped compensate for the pasty complexion of Iowa and New Hampshire.

That's the basis for an amended legal filing planned by Tampa Democratic activist, Victor Dimaio and attorney Michael Steinberg who are suing to have Florida's entire Democratic delegation seated at the National Convention in Denver this summer.

..."Steinberg and DiMaio acknowledge with a grin that their reverse racism accusation will ruffle feathers, but hope the conservative judiciary will be delighted to strike a blow against affirmative action and rule in their favor. Their only objective, they claim, is to see all of Florida's delegates seated based on the January 31st primary election.

The ugly head of racism reared up in Garin's statement. So it is fair game to wonder what and who is behind DiMaio's 3rd lawsuit.

I remembered something Jay Bookman wrote a while ago in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. When a campaign makes a statement like that, it does appear they are not connected to reality.

Jay Bookman said that the Clinton campaign suffered from Jay Bookman, AJC: "Clinton suffers ‘campaign bubble’ syndrome"

In addition, everybody with whom the candidate interacts on a daily basis shares the same little campaign bubble. They all drank the Kool-Aid, and they all liked the Kool-Aid. So nobody on the team wants to be the first to suggest that it might be over, that all that hard work and those long days have gone for naught.

....."For several weeks now, even before the Ohio and Texas primaries, it had become clear that Clinton could not win the Democratic nomination, and nothing since then has changed that fact. Yet, surrounded by people who look to her for hope and inspiration, Clinton cannot bring herself to admit it.

Instead, she insists that the process continue, on the grounds that the people are sovereign and must be allowed to have their say. Then, switching gears, she also argues that once the people have had their say, the superdelegates have the right to overturn the people’s verdict in her favor.

I was not going to post anything at all in GDP today, but that remark from Geoff Garin hit me so very wrong. It was racist and tasteless. I am white, and I was offended.

Governor Dean said either candidate would know and understand when it was time for them to go....but I think maybe he was wrong.

[Blue-Jay]

1. .

[madfloridian]

2. I will think deeply about what you said.

.

[Blue-Jay]

3. Sorry.

It was just the first thing that came to mind when I read "Bookman". I loved that show.

:D

[madfloridian]

4. It's ok.

I am just wondering how much FL and the lawsuit are playing into her decision to stay in?

[madfloridian]

6. Not familiar with that show.

?

[Blue-Jay]

7. Good Times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Times

Dyn-O-Mite!

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, I remember the show, just forgot the name.

Been a long time. It is still on in TVLand I think.

[madfloridian]

5. Comments from Wolfson today...they do intend FL and MI to be an issue.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080507/METRO/805070441/1409/METRO

"INDIANAPOLIS -- Sen. Barack Obama's convincing win in North Carolina and narrow loss in Indiana on Tuesday have made the dispute over Michigan and Florida delegates the biggest remaining rationale for Sen. Hillary Clinton to stay in the Democratic presidential race.

"We need to work with others to ensure that Michigan and Florida are seated at our convention," Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said Wednesday. It was one of the three goals Wolfson set out for the campaign to somehow wrest a nomination that appears increasingly secure in Obama's hands. Clinton also must score a decisive win in next week's West Virginia primary and convince undeclared superdelegates that she is the more electable candidate against Republican John McCain this fall.

...'But even under the Clinton campaign's most optimistic projections, Michigan and Florida -- which remain under a delegate ban as punishment for holding January primaries -- would leave Clinton roughly 100 delegates behind Obama. Clinton spokesman Phil Singer told reporters Wednesday that full delegations based on the January contests would give Clinton a 58-delegate advantage."

[Tinksrival]

8. Thanks for turning on the lights......

However, the cockroaches are not leaving. I think we'll all be "mad" before this is over.

Hilary's campaign wants to steal it for disenfranchised :eyes: white people with the Supreme Court.
I can't believe the Democratic party will stand for this......right?
Freakin topsy turvy Wonderland! If they do..I want off this ride!

[madfloridian]

12. Most probably...

stuff is going on behind the scenes.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Yup. Clinton and her supporters official adopt the Whites Only strategy...

Clinton supporters must be so proud.

[madfloridian]

11. I was surprised to see that statement from Garin.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

13. From the TPM link....a wonderful comment.

I find myself offended by the insertion of talk of race in this campaign. I am white. I do not think of the Obama family in any way other than a great possibility for our country. The Clintons have offended me with this talk.

The comment I appreciated:

"This desperation tactic by the Clinton campaign is both very sad and destructive to the Democratic Party and to the nation as a whole. Public talk about racial divisions serves only to exacerbate and deepen them, so this is not costless if it is their approach going forward. Racial divisions are, of course, out there in the real world, but the way that elites talk and choose to compete with one another can either soften or exacerbate such divides. Social science research is clear on this.

The rationale for Superdelegates is to use their judgement in a timely way for the good of the party as a whole. It is time for them to decide and let all progressives move on from Clinton last-ditchism."

Yes, it is time for them to decide.

The audio of the conference is up at the TPM link now. It is openly racist in meaning.

[paulk]

14. how is what Garin said "racist"?

please explain how quoting numbers is racist in your world.

[tnlefty]

15. Hey madfloridian!!

It's been on my mind for months that the MSM is doing anything and everything that it can to divide the Democratic party. When the 'first African American, woman' wasn't getting the job done for them, it was the Wal-Mart Democrats vs. the Starbucks Democrats. Older vs. younger, older whites against younger whatever - constantly playing the race card, pitting groups of Dem voters against Dem voters and working people up into a frenzy. Elitist vs. whoever else isn't, college educated against those who aren't....today I heard on the TeeVee that W VA was gonna be the Appalachia primary. :crazy:

Never is it mentioned that many if not most of these demographics have the same goal in mind - helping all of us so that we can move our society forward in good will to continue to help each other.

[madfloridian]

16. Right you are.

The pundits spend their days thinking of how to divide us. But let's face it...that comment from Garin was no help.
:hi:

[madfloridian]

17. Yep..after a DNC meeting today she calls FL and MI a civil rights issue.

Please please someone convince me.

I really wish someone would convince me that Vic DiMaio, Bill Nelson, and the Clinton campaign are NOT coordinating message about calling Florida a civil rights issue. That is just baloney.

They deliberately broke the rules, it had nothing to do with civil rights.

Bill Nelson sued and lost on the same civil rights issue Hillary is using now.

Civil rights, discrimination, same issue as DiMaio that I posted in the OP.

Someone from her campaign tonight on TV...was it Caputo...used the civil rights terminology as well.

Here is what Hillary said today:

http://www.muscatinejournal.com/articles/2008/05/07/ap/politics/d90h49u00.txt

Clinton met with undecided superdelegates at Democratic Party headquarters Wednesday. She said, "We talked a lot about Florida and Michigan," two states that she won but don't have any delegates to count toward her total because their early primaries violated party rules. "I continue to emphasize and stress that we cannot disenfranchise those voters."

Clinton said later that she would be sending a letter to Obama and Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean expressing her belief that seating the Florida and Michigan delegations is a civil rights and voting rights issue.

It never had anything to do with a civil rights issue at all. It was a matter of a party needing rules to function.

This infuriates me. Someone at another forum said the the FL issue was only going to hurt FL. Not true at all. It is affecting all of us since she is using it as an excuse to go on.

[psychmommy]

36. mad i was hoping that w/obama's numbers

that this would cease to be an issue. dr dean said they would be seated after the nominee was chosen. she can't win even with them (without theft). so why can't the delegates be seated in a corner somewhere and stop their incessant whining. it would nip all of this in the bud and make them look stupid.

[Catherina]

18. Nothing the HRC campaign does would surprise me

For the first time since I've been reading your posts, I hope you're wrong.

[madfloridian]

19. I want to be wrong.

I really do. It's the constant attention on FL that is getting on my "raw nerves". Just fed up.

:hi:

[Catherina]

20. I'm fed up. Tired and exhausted

I'm getting on board with the idea of retiring her campaign debt so she can retire from the competitiion gracefully if the rumor that Obama is willing to help her is true. Your post scares me because what if he retires it and she uses the money for such a lawsuit? Will you please keep an eye on this? I want the party to heal and if it takes a little money so be it but I don't want us to be played for fools either. I'm tired of seeing so many of her supporters as the enemy when most of them aren't.

Fed up and tired of this all :hi:

[krkaufman]

42. My two problems with Obama paying-off Clinton's debt are ...

... (1) it may anger/annoy those who've donated to Obama; and (2) it may be spun as Obama only gaining the nomination by paying-off his competition, by buying the nomination.

I don't have a problem w/ a "get Hillary out of debt" fund being put together, but I don't want the Obama campaign to make some backroom deal to that effect.

[ShortnFiery]

21. Mark this prediction: The superdelegates are making "a big mistake" by not shutting HRC down NOW!

She will destroy both The Party and Obama. HRC is morally bankrupt but Pelosi and other superdelegates are too "out of touch" to notice. :(

[madfloridian]

23. It worries me. This is a lawsuit these two guys chuckle about....

but they will even push to go to the Supreme Court if they can.

When I heard the anger and bitterness of Clinton's campaign co-chair on Larry King....I knew it was not over.

[kwenu]

22. Surely they don't want to argue that before the SCOTUS. The court would let Scalia write the opinion

as punishment for such a stupid lawsuit.

[madfloridian]

26. Trouble is in one statement, they said they were hoping for a very conservative judge.

:hi:

Their motives are not as they seem.

[greguganus]

24. This white man will never vote for Clinton, If the party keeps putting up with her BS, I'm out. n/t

[madfloridian]

25. Interesting blog post from Tampa....playing up the race issue

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/05/diverse-trio-to.html

"Diverse trio to press DNC
Democratic National Committee member Jon Ausman of Tallahassee is bringing some back-up troops with him to Washington to appeal the DNC’s stripping away of Florida’s 211 delegates. Also expected to make presentations are DNC members Janee Murphy of Tampa and former Hialeah mayor Raul Martinez. It never hurts to be represented not just by a white male, but an African-American woman and Hispanic man when arguing that Florida’s votes should count.

State Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman is expected to attend, but not necessarily speak."

I don't know if this is the May 31 meeting or something else.

I so much resent they are playing the race issue, because it was never about that at all. It was about a state deliberately breaking the party rules, thumbing their nose at the chairman...yelling "Howard act like a man".

Stupid stuff. Geared to anger.

The Clinton campaign could put a stop to this, but they will not. They are using the state as a tool...anger be damned.

[Lord Helmet]

27. shit I thought we should snap off Florida in 2000 and let it float away

[democracy1st]

28. great job mad ur always on top of things

blown away

[Gman]

29. This is totally disingenious

Make no mistake about it: Obama targets the AA vote. The AA vote has given him his advantage over Hillary primarily in the Southern states. I know good and honorable AA's supporting Obama and they worked hard to get out the AA vote for Obama. If anyone tells you that Obama doesn't target the AA vote they are lying.

Hillary has strength among the white working class. She would be an idiot to not take advantage of that strength just as Obama would be an idiot for not taking advantage of the AA vote.

And to be somehow outraged that Hillary plays to her strengths and make claims of racism someone either 1) has no clue what racism is versus targeting demographics or 2) is simply looking stir up more hate toward Hillary.

I've been standing right there among good AA friends when one said to the other that Obama is "one of us". I told them they need to support him for that reason. This was during a conversation we were having about the dilema of choosing to support someone that could be the first woman president or someone that could be the first male AA president. (The sentiment overall was "isn't it great?")

Faking outrage over Hillary targeting white voters is just flat wrong.

And Obama's strength among AA's and young voters is no recipe for victory in November. No Democrat will win in November without the white working class. That is a very simple, well known political fact. Obama has lukewarm support among the white working class and that doesn't bode well for November.

----------------------

Or maybe I'm reading your OP wrong...

[theboss]

31. There is a difference between targeting white voters and discounting black voters

Hillary has better support among white voters. This is not in dispute.

The issue is Hillary's approach of arguing that white voters apparently "count more."

If she was ahead on votes and delegates while losing 92 percent of the black vote, it would be a little troubling but something to deal with.

However, what she is doing is saying, look....I know I am losing....but what we should really do is count just the white votes. Then, I'm winning!

Any argument that one voting bloc is more important than another should be troubling to Dems.

[Gman]

33. Are you saying if Obama was losing he would not say

he needs to increase the AA turnout??? That's absolutely ludicrous as the AA vote is his strength and has put him where he's at. Obama knows it, everyone knows it and that's a legitimate strategy.

[theboss]

34. Hillary is not talking about increasing white turnout

Well...maybe she is to some degree.

But she is banking on her margins with white voters to give her the nomination through a brokered convention.

The argument is: I have more white voters. Therefore, I should be the nominee.

[Gman]

38. Be careful

you're going to pull a muscle stretching like that.

[madfloridian]

35. You are SO reading my OP wrong. And you are being disingenuous.

I am white. I don't look at the Obamas and see any color....I see intelligence and capability.

Right now I am looking at the Clintons and seeing pandering to the poorly informed. Sorry, but that is how it is playing out.

She could stop all those lawsuits in Florida in a split second, but she won't.

[Gman]

40. Surely you're not saying Obama OTOH appeals to educated AA's

versus the uneducated whites you refer to? I would think you would look at Obama and see an AA male, middle aged but young, he is intelligent, carries himself well, etc. and all of his characteristics as a PRODUCT to be sold. Hillary is the same. Both campaigns assess the "products" and how to market them and WHO to market them to by race, income, social status, etc. Each candidate should be looked at like a can of Coca Cola with the intent of selling that can to someone.

I don't understand why people, especially white people, run from the fact that Obama is an AA. AA's don't run from it. THey embrace it as well they should. There's nothing wrong with targeting demographics by race in a campaign.

And if these people in FL wouldn't listen to the state or national party regarding the primary last year, there's no reason to think they would listen to Hillary or anyone else to drop the lawsuits. The issue of the primary was not a Hillary issue. It was the state FDP vs. the DNC and they're still fighting that battle.

[madfloridian]

41. You are twisting my words so much that I have no clue what you are saying.

So I can't respond.

[mmonk]

30. I read an column in the News & Observer today

whereby the person (Barry Saunders) said he liked to look at it the other way around. That being, an AA candidate got 40% of the white and 91% of the AA vote over a popular and well known political figure in the democratic party.

[leftrightwingnut]

32. Thanks for the reminder. This is one "nuclear" option.

Another is teaming up with McCain. I think the odds are better on the court action.

If Clinton does this, she could destroy the Democratic party. What Democrat wants to be told by a conservative SCOTUS who our nominee will be?

If the Super Delegates are worth anything and want to save the party, they will unanimously endorse Obama the moment the suit is filed. Pledged delegates should also switch unanimously. I think someone ought to start talking to them one by one and get their pledges to support Obama if Clinton files such a suit with the SCOTUS.

Is there any precedent for the SCOTUS (or any other court) to intervene in a political party's primary?

If the SCOTUS hasn't done it before, it would definitely raise eyebrows if they took the case. Does that mean Democrats could sue Republicans to try to affect their party's outcomes? It's judicial activism at its worst. If they do it, it will likely be another "one time only" decision.

Edited to add:

The rule itself sets up the option to appeal to the Supreme Court. So such an option is sanctioned. Still, I don't like the precedent of having a discrimination case with such flimsy arguments in the SCOTUS given their track record in more recent history.

[madfloridian]

37. There have been 3 lawsuits from FL against DNC, one against state party.

I am sure that is not the end. It angers me so much.

[sandnsea]

39. oh lord this is appalling

I swear I never thought I'd see the day the Dem Party used race in an election. The supers need to end this right now.

[ShortnFiery]

43. OMFG! Only in bat shit crazy FL (no disrespect to the sane folks) do we have racism against WHITES

This is going to foment RACIAL DIVIDES within this Nation that will set us back 20 FUCKING YEARS, at least. :nuke: