A Kucinich solution to the Fla/ Mich dilemma. /Let polls determine delegate selection .

[cyclezealot]

At this late date and the stubbornness of all parties, I see no other choice? If not, you think penalizing the Michigan / Florida parties the wise course come November.
$$$

Kucinich wants polling to end Michigan & Florida delegate impasse

The two states were stripped of their delegates after they held January primaries in defiance of of Democratic Party rules that protect the traditional presidential candidate selection role of early-voting states like Iowa and New Hampshire.

The magazine says Kucinich is circulating a plan among Democratic House members that would base the states' delegate distribution on polling conducted by three firms, one selected by each campaign and a third chosen by the other two companies. Delegates would be apportioned based on the composite findings of the three polls. None of the firms could have previously been employed by either campaign.

"The Democratic Party faces the intolerable prospect of disenfranchising Florida and Michigan's voters from choosing our presidential nominee in this closely contested primary election," Kucinich, who represents a Cleveland-based district, wrote to his colleagues in a letter dated April 24. "This makes finding a remedy a political requirement and a democratic necessity."

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/05/kucinich_wants_polling_to_end.html

[davidpdx]

1. While that's not too bad of solution

part of the problem is many of the polling companies may have direct or indirect ties to either candidate. I somehow don't see Clinton accepting this, unless she bows out. It take an important issue off the table for her.

[Apollo11]

2. Dumb plan. A recipe for prolonging the pain.

There are already much better options on the table, such as:

A: Ratify the results of both primaries and seat the delegates (giving all of Michigan's uncommitted votes to Obama).

B: Ratify the Florida result as is, and organize a do-over primary in Michigan.

C: Ratify the Florida result as is, and then split the Michigan delegates 50-50.

D: Each delegate only gets half a vote (to "punish" Florida and Michigan for jumping in line).

E: Some combination of the above.

[cyclezealot]

3. since all parties seem to not want a compromise

the best course will likely be one imposed. All parties have said no to options b and c. I sort of like option d. That would be my choice. Adopt the wisdom of what the Republicans did as to Michigan and Florida and seems acceptable to the Fla, Mich GOP. / Of course since I support the goals of the Michigan / Florida Democratic parties in their anger at the sytem ; my favorite option is a. But, that is unacceptable to Howard Dean.
Since, I believe in the basic techniques used by polling data, I see nothing silly about the Kucinich plan. Especially since it requires the averaging out of the results of three reputable independent polling organizations. Tracking the primary results of reputable polling organizations this past primary season, they have been pretty right on.

[dansolo]

4. Reduce delegate counts by 50%, and split FL 60-40, MI 50-50

And strip the two states of their superdelegate votes.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

5. That's a fine plan, but

once implemented, the Clinton campaign will sue to get the remaining FL delegates seated, since she gets 60% of them. Anything less is dissing the good voters of FL. kidding. sorta.

btw, I'm for leaving all MI delegates outside the convention hall. DNC rules were broken. If the DNC backs down, they invite chaos in 2012, a free-for-all of primary date shuffling.

[cyclezealot]

6. this prolonged ankle biting session

we have chaos already. If Michigan's law breaking brings change. Bravo. As to disallowing superdelegates. You want the next MI governor a Republican overlooking congressional reapportionment, go ahead. A wise course. The Republicans will thank you. Think the National GOP will disallow Gov. Crist of Fla. I really doubt that. He is way too popular. One of the GOP superstars.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

9. I don't see the connection ...

between disallowing MI super-D's at the convention, and the outcome of the next MI gubernatorial contest.

I don't see many MI residents who are upset about MI delegates being excluded. More amusement than bitterness.

[cyclezealot]

12. agreed/ I dont see them whining.

A superdelegate gets to talk on the mic and say Michigan votes for ++++, Plus a chance at the podium. Particular when the national party hopes that person will be the next governor. Its just publicity for Stupak or whom ever. That , I think the connection for whom ever runs for governor. Don't think they really loose any sleep should the superdelegates be eliminated. Just annoyed. Its not all that much publicity, since few watch the national convetions anyway. In fact, most newtworks don't even carry them anymore.

[TexasObserver]

7. Provided both states lose ALL their STATE superdelegates, fine.

The people who should be penalized are the state party leaders who led these two renegade actions, in defiance of the party standards. They violated the rules. Let regular delegates get chosen in representative numbers, but make the superdelegates NON VOTING convention members. They gave up their right to vote by leading insurrections against the party. They dumped on all the other 48 states, and now all the other 48 states are stuck with trying to make these two spoiled brat states stop whining.

[cyclezealot]

8. One of Michigan's best hopes for retaining the next governorship

is Rep. Bart Stupak. Don't want him to speak before the nation. Would you rather have Bart Stupak or Richard DeVos (R) overlooking Michigan's next congressional reapportionment.

[TexasObserver]

10. Did Bart Stupak have anything to do with the STATE party's action?

I didn't suggest he couldn't be there. They would be stripped of their vote in the convention, and I limited it to the STATE superdelegates, not the FEDERAL superdelegates. As for as I know Carl Levin didn't have a role in the shenanigans of the state party.

[cyclezealot]

11. Yes he did( Sen. Levin.)

He supported the early primary. Along with Debbie Dingell, Rep. Dingell, Sen. Carl Levin and Gov. Granholm. All those mentioned joined in. The primary leadership came from Debbie Dingell . The national committeewoman. Michigan has been fighting the supremacy of New Hampshire for years. You don't rock the boat you get no change. Rep. Stupak had no part in the 'shenanigans,' as far as i know. He supposedly is the Democrats best chance to retain the governorship.

[TexasObserver]

17. I favor punishing the perps by stripping their convention vote.

If that's Levin, then he loses his vote.

Same for the other perps.

Michigan broke the rules adopted by the party, and they cannot be rewarded for it. As for the candidate for governor, sure, give him a pass, but those other folks can attend, but not vote. That's my view of fair, and split the pledged delegates down the middle, half to each candidate remaining.

Michigan will have delegates in the convention, but they won't impact the outcome of the nomination, directly or indirectly. That ship has left the harbor and they're not on it.

[cyclezealot]

19. Anyone see today's Rasmussen poll

Obama vs McCain.
Right now McCain is winning both Florida and Michigan.

[TexasObserver]

20. Well, Florida is a Republican state. And Rasmussen is a Republican pollster.

He knows which side is bread is buttered on.

If Michigan votes for McCain, they deserve to wallow in their unemployment.

[cyclezealot]

21. being I basically accept the science of polling.

Corporations would not use it for product development, if it were so faulty. Republicans are equally stingy. They don't want to pay for fabrications. Is the Rasmussen track record that weak. ? / Other polls have shown Michigan a tight race. No Democrat can win nationally without Michigan. Its not just Michigan, its the whole of the US that will wallow. / To win Obama needs heal the Fla/ Mich dilema and maybe pick a pro Clinton good old boy like Wesley Clark. That will maybe heal the party. Plus give him a chance in states such as Missouri. Poll also showed Obama not doing that well in Wisconsin.

[Texas Hill Country]

28. it is against the rules to remove SD votes IIRC

[LWolf]

13. This is one of the rare times I disagree with Dennis.

I'd like to see all polls banned from the election process. They hold too much influence and can be used to manipulate the outcome.

I don't think there is any good way to solve this particular dilemma.

[OzarkDem]

14. Its a reasonable solution, fair too

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. Pretty ironic considering that all thorughout his campaign

Kucinich's supporters poo-poo'd all of the polls showing him in the low single digits. Apparently Kucinich himself trusts the polls.

[goclark]

16. I'm disappointed in Dennis, the American people

should be the Polls if anything.

Since 99% of the "polls" and the "MSM" Spinners , who would be fair?

[cyclezealot]

23. Is Pooh Pooh the correct word

It was the naivety of thinking we could out bet the polls if Kucinich were ever given a fair chance to present his case without a lot of gufff ( backtalk) from the likes of Wolf Blitzer. Know it was foolish to ever think the US media would have a bout of fairness.

[Romulox]

18. Why not decide the GE based on polls then? It would be cheaper to do *that*, too.

Moreover, these "split the votes based on some arbitrary figure I've pulled from the air" non-solutions are ridiculous.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. They will be seated as is becuase she still can't win with them

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. Here's the easy solution

1. Seat Florida's elected delegates according to the results of the January 29, 2008 primary. That ensures that the voters of Florida's will is done.

2. Strike all of Florida's and Michigan's superdelegate votes as a "penalty" for holding an earlier primary. As superdelegates are a party feature themselves and not related to the results of the primary election. Thus this is a fair penalty without disenfranchising the people who took the time and effort to go to the polls and vote on election day.

3. Seat Clinton's share of elected delegates according to the results of the Michigan primary.

4. Seat the uncommitted delegates according to the results of the Michigan primary, and have the uncommitted delegates vote in the first nominating round.

[Dawgs]

27. I agree with your plan, but only if the elected votes are split in half.

And all parties (both campaigns, states, and DNC) must agree and sign off on it.

[TahitiNut]

25. If the Democratic Party regards the "penalty" as intolerable ...

... then they should NEVER have written the rules in a way to impose such a penalty. Suck it up. The piper WILL be paid. There's BLOWBACK for such draconian authoritarianism. The posture of "wanting my cake and eating it, too" is ethically bankrupt.

[Occam Bandage]

26. I kinda like DK, but this is a dumb solution.