United States Supreme Court....

[nadinbrzezinski]

Think about THIS ONE

I know some of you are realizing that Hillary has lost the nomination and your natural reaction is to pull back... not vote, stay home

You need to grieve

But for the record... NEITHER of the two candidates is my preferred one

I will place fingers on nose, and press tightly as I vote for Obama

Would have done the same if that was Hillary

No, I don't consider either of these two machine politicians the best the country could offer

And policy wise there is not that much difference between them

You could say that 2006 killed the hope

But .... In november we will need all decks on hand

If you think either of these two threw the kitchen sink or ran a dirty campaign, you have not seen anything yet

Now Hillary herself said today... "I WILL WORK FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY."

Read this again ok...

"I WILL WORK FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY."

You vote for the candidate I don't ask you to work for Obama, but to vote for Obama

And as I said repeteadly, he is not my preferred candidate either... but McInsane and the USSC are just two things that make me shiver ....

Can you say good bye to roe v wade?

Enough said....

[OzarkDem]

1. Health care reform is more important

and we won't get it with Obama or McCain. If Clinton pulls out, we've lost something even more important than the SCOTUS.

[SeattleGirl]

4. Cannot agree with you there.

I think SCOTUS is one of THE most important issues, because they have a wider reach.

I do agree that the health care plans are not what they could be, but no nominee's plan goes through as is. Hopefully Obama's will be improved along the way, but even if Clinton was the nominee, her plan would also not go through unscathed.

[OzarkDem]

13. The health care crisis will destroy the US economy

it will be much worse than someone having to make a higher co-pay.

I'm sure you're young and will live forever, though, right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Do explain to me how a RIGHT WING USSC

will help in this case?

I am serious...

(Free refresher course the RIGHT WING USSC under FDR declared some aspects of the new deal a no-no... you think they will not do the same to whoever is elected president in 2012 if we survive that long)

[SeattleGirl]

27. Actually, I'm in my 50's.

Sorry....

[Zachstar]

35. There are like 20 different things that will destroy the economy in 20 years

Health care is on the middle of the list.

[Obamaniac]

57. Ozark, it's time to give up your hate buddy.

It's over. You fought hard for your candidate. Your candidate fought hard. But the election has been decided and it's over.

We are all Democrats here. This protracted race brought out some of the uglier aspects of our nature (from both sides), but we are all Democrats.

Let's kick McCain's ass.

[hokies4ever]

5. Independents won't flock toward Hillary's mandate

nothing like the government forcing people to do something to get them to resist it

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. NEITHER will give you the type of healthcare reform the country needs

but if you think the USSC is not important, I have a bridge to sell you, serious

[jgraz]

11. Obama won't, but the Congress he drags in with him just might.

With Hillary, it would have been 1994 all over again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. In this case the country is so much ahead of the politicos it is not even funny

I don't expect the politicos to get into that train unless we lead that parade... and 2006 proved to me that they are very much tone deaf on so many issues that if we get SOME progress I will be amazed

[OzarkDem]

16. Obama has no coattails

that's been pretty well established.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. That is why he's about to win... the nom

ok

Look if you don't want to vote for him, fine

But at this point either of the two nominees is BETTER than the GOP candidate

[OzarkDem]

20. Primary race

has nothing to do with coattails or winning the GE. Its possible to win the nomination and lose the GE. Check the history books. Its happened a lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yes, but at this point HE IS THE NOMINEE

so you will vote against him? Just because you don't like him?

[OzarkDem]

26. Which is meaningless unless he wins the GE

I won't campaign or donate funds to him. If he emerges clean from the GOP drubbing he is sure to get, I'll vote for him. But there have been rare cases in the past when I've refused to vote for Dems, choosing not to vote at all, when they've been involved in criminal activity or engaged in other egregious behavior. Since Obama hasn't been vetted yet, I can't make that promise.

[SeattleGirl]

30. He hasn't been VETTED?????

Hello? Where have you been for the past few months?

[OzarkDem]

37. No he hasn't

[SeattleGirl]

39. Okay, whatever.

[cascadiance]

58. So tell me how he hasn't been "vetted" about his religious experience and Hillary has?

I mean I guess NOONE has heard of Obama's connections to Jeremiah Wright, and by comparison EVERYONE has heard of Hillary's connections to that bible group called "The Fellowship" where she was good pals with the liks of Rick Santorum, Sam Brownback, and John Ashcroft. EVERYONE, RIGHT? That's why they liked her so much they had to vote for her!

[Zachstar]

32. Well please focus on congress then.

[OzarkDem]

38. Always do

as well as the statehouse and county races.

[Zachstar]

42. Sounds good!

Heck if we get a filibuster and republican trick proof majority in congress we cab get some SERIOUS changes going.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. He hasn't be vetted?

Don't make any promises,

I can guarantee you though that when McInnsane wins (by your logic) you will enjoy a war with Iran, if not more wars than just that one

No health care, and a USSC so right wing...

Oh never mind

[OzarkDem]

36. No, he hasn't

and if something comes out, it wouldn't matter if I voted for him 100 times, he'll lose anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. You know what is sad about the partisans... if it was Obama and not Clinton in this fix

I'd be having the exact same useless conversation with an Oama supporter

Not that it mattered, not until they woke up and smelled the roses

Sad... since partisans usually wake up after it is too late

One good thing of truly not having a horse in this race, but having decided a while ago that yellow dog was the only reasonable outcome for my wallet

[Usrename]

59. Don't tell all those superdelegates that he doesn't have coattails.

Most of the folks in the down-ticket races want Obama at the top of the ticket. Wonder why that is?

[jgraz]

62. Pure crap. Ever hear of Don Cazayoux?

He just won in the reddest of red districts in Baton Rouge, LA. His opponent turned the race into a referendum on Obama and Rev. Wright and he got his ass kicked.

[OzarkDem]

14. Clinton's is the better plan

that has the most realistic chance of getting us to a single payer system.

And yes, its more important than the SCOTUS, since so much of our economy and future depends on getting a handle on the growing crisis.

As for SCOTUS, Obama isn't going to win. If, by some chance he defies the odds, there's nothing to indicate he would appoint good judges either. The idea of Obama being liberal is a myth. There's nothing in his brief legislative record to indicate such a thing. He's a machine politician - he does what his financial backers tell him to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Neither is a liberal... they are BOTH machine politicos

those of us who are NOT partisans understood this a while ago

[Zachstar]

28. Then why not work to get things fixed?

Obama cant do jack shit with health care except made ideas and sign them in. Otherwise that is ALL congress.

So How about this?

Forget trying to help Obama.. Yes Hold your nose and vote but forget doing anything otherwise.

And trade that for assisting the multiple candidates for congress that have your ideas for heath care in mind. I believe that Al Franken's and a few others like Clinton's plan but that is research you will have to do.

Trust me I understand that Congress is JUST as important as the presidency. I would much rather you focus your efforts there than worrying about the presidency.

[grace0418]

29. It's time to give it a rest OzarkDem. I'm sorry your candidate didn't win but at some

point negative opinions stated as fact (when they are anything but) become self-fulfilling prophesies.

[OzarkDem]

41. Sorry, but I've examined all the plans closely

and even watched their surrogates in a panel discussion on health care reform last week in DC. Obama's plan is weak, and they've already begun backtracking on some of the promises he's made.

IIRC, his surrogate was saying if he's elected, they will basically sit down and examine health care reform again and come up with a new plan. It didn't sound positive and it wasn't leaning towards covering more people.

[Zachstar]

44. His "Big table" plan has been talked about for months.

And it is far more effective because it exposes assholes trying to derail the process to protect the companies.

And no I could care less if Clinton or Obama or Santa did it. Its an idea that will have to happen with multiple topics to keep assholes from lobbying to prevent it.

[OzarkDem]

46. I agree with John Edwards

If you let the insurance companies sit at the table, they'll eat all the food. Nothing will get resolved if they are allowed at the table.

And why would Obama present a detailed health care reform plan in his campaign if he has no intention of sticking to it. Some people would call that dishonest.

[Zachstar]

55. I do not think they will gobble up everything.

A slew of cameras will be in their face so they cant do jack without them being exposed 20 mins later.

And if they try to lobby congress people afterwards? Well if the people have been watching a plan develop and they like it. If congress tries to alter and screw with it then people in congress are going to be exposed.

That that means democrats will get fucked with politically but that is a small price to pay to break the chain of bullshit in congress and the presidency.

[grace0418]

61. Oh good grief.

Nevermind, you just keep on spewing your negativity. That'll make everything better. :eyes:

[Zachstar]

23. Who gives a hell about healthcare when McCain takes Obama being defeated as a sign?

Only losing Roe vs Wade would be lucky compared to what we would lose if McCain wins against the "Change" and "Open" candidate.

[eridani]

60. We won't get it with Clinton either. If it ain't single payer, it's worthless

We can get it if we the people push Congress hard enough to pass HR 676. If we can do that, neither Clinton nor Obama would refuse to sign it. McSame damned well would, though.

[TheDonkey]

2. Work for Obama. I am asking. There is too much at stake.

He is a democrat and shares about 98% major issues with Hillary and the rest of the party. Let's win this in NOVEMBER! GO OBAMA!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I will vote for obama, but I will NOT work for him

just as I have not worked for her.

I will vote for him, the same way I would have voted for her... with finger on nose

that you can be assured off

the USSC is at stake, cannot afford another Repig to get the nominating power

But 2006 soured me on the process and the media this year proved to me how rigged the system is

[donheld]

3. You will say good bye to roe v wade, if McCain wins

That's my honest belief.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. And if you reread the OP you will realzie that is EXACTLY what I said

[donheld]

9. I know you did, I was agreeing with you

Is that ok?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yes, of course

my bad

[Tresalisa]

19. If sig lines weren't turned off tonight,

you all would see mine, and the reason why I'm voting for our nominee, same as the OP is saying, SCOTUS!

Many of us first supported someone else. My candidate was Dennis Kucinich. I am not 100% happy that we are left with Clinton or Obama, but you can't always get the candidate you want. Any Democratic candidate is better than the republican.

:kick: and recommend!

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Well I started with Dennis and voted for Edwards in the Cali primary

even if he suspended his campaign a day or two before, and I was impressed by Obama early on, but a couple of his comments and a review of votes revealed how similar he was to her.

I am not pleased, but will vote for him... better than four more years of Bush

[Solon]

24. I'll need nose plugs, some goggles, and a rain poncho, but I'll vote for him...

oh, and a bucket as well. Let's just say I'm decidedly unenthusiastic about the guy, or Hillary for that matter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Exactly, my nose plugs will have all the

logos of the media corporations, but will be there, perhaps not as bright and early as I did with Kerry... but will be there

[Solon]

34. As I've put it in many other posts, I'm not voting for the Democrats, I'm voting against the...

Republicans. The biggest reasons are because of the USSC, as you said, and because, overall, Democrats do less damage to the nation than Republicans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

BINGO

[OzarkDem]

31. But what if the GOP digs up something

very unsavory in his past? Not a faux scandal, but something real. That's a very big concern. He hasn't been vetted, we don't know what can surface from his past.

[Solon]

40. All I care about are his positions on the issues are better than McCain's...

They aren't good positions, but a slight improvement over the Republicans, so that's enough. Understand that I would be saying the EXACT same thing if Hillary was now the presumptive nominee. I don't care about this bullshit about not being vetted, I don't even like either candidate on even a personal level, so it wouldn't affect my vote one iota.

[Zachstar]

47. You fight it HARD

When I was a republican I was watching the democrats get their asses handed to them on the swiftboat issue because they were not fighting effectively.

And don't worry what they could find in Obama's past. (OH noes he Hugged Wright! once!) Compared to what is going to be exposed on McCain. It ain't nothing. McCains own little pastor problem is going to sink him quite easy.

That is why I 100 percent approve of his quick response team. This is not the cold war of politics Candidates need to be able to dance.

[OzarkDem]

49. Swiftboating was different

It was based on lies, and I would expect Obama to fight something like that. My concern is the GOP digging something up that is true and that he can't fight back on.

[Zachstar]

52. You fight regardless.

Look there is come crap that is true about Clinton that the republicans have been archiving for almost a decade. She will have to fight hard.

Nobody is perfect. There is going to be some shit and the republicans are going to go ape.

Yet they are not unified. Paul supporters are tearing up the republican party. Paul will not support McCain if Obama becomes the nominee and instantly McCain will lose netroots.

Without netroots their slime tactics will not work as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. you mean like the Arkansas project?

COUNT ON IT... a real or imagined scandal, and that WILL HAPPEN to anybody we run

even Jesus H Christ!

[charlie]

43. The new president needs to be leaned on

to appoint not just liberals, but economic populists to the court. Currently, there are none. This court is perhaps the most disturbingly favorable to corporate interests in the modern era. And Roberts has been crowding the docket with a larger percentage of corporate cases than have been heard in decades. The occasional pushback comes only from, ironically enough, the Scalia/Thomas wing, under the rubric of States Rights.

Big Business has been solidifying their status as a protected class with little fanfare and no notice. We need justices properly skeptical of Chicago School "free market" ideology. Badly.

[Solon]

48. My question now is, are even the most ardent of Obama supporters ready to become his opponents...

after he wins the Presidency? That is what they will have to become in order to have any influence on his presidency itself, and that is to oppose what he does wrong, and pressure him to do the right thing.

[Zachstar]

50. If Obama screws up I am going to say somthing about it.

When I decided to throw my support to Obama I did not do so thinking I was going to kiss his ass all the way to reelection. I intend to see that Change. We do not have another decade to fuck around.

Obama has stated again he is accountable to the people, not lobbyists. If he tries to move away from that he will fail reelection.

[Solon]

53. As long as you are willing to stick to your guns, I respect that...

I doubt the resolve of many others, however, especially when it comes to the most obvious way to voice disapproval, and that is to not vote for the candidate again.

[charlie]

54. I dunno

Couldn't say. I'm not bedazzled by the guy, so I'll be loudly pissed with him pretty quick if (when) he does something boneheaded.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I can guarantee boneheaded

but after the last eight years perhaps he'll have a little more of a leeway....

Then again there is 2006

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Kick for thinking

[Lilith Velkor]

64. "all decks on hand"

I will be dropping that phrase into conversations from now on.

Excellent points. K & R.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. You welcome and feel free to use them