I'd like to apologize to Hillary supporters on DU while they can still see me

[FlyingSquirrel]

A couple nights ago I declared that I now considered Hillary avatars to be offensive and would be ignoring anyone with a Hillary avatar.

I did this mainly in frustration because of the length of this primary season and my belief that Obama will be the nominee; it therefore followed in my mind that anyone supporting Hillary must not want us to win this November.

This was clearly wrong and I apologize.

While watching Hillary's speech tonight after Indiana I remembered what it was I saw in her before, and what I'm sure a lot of people see in her still. Even though her supporters are greatly outnumbered on this and other blogs, clearly they are not so outnumbered in this country - in fact it's nearly an even split.

I felt sad watching her speech, knowing that if things had gone differently, she could be the presumptive nominee right now and Obama would almost certainly be on her ticket. That would have been an amazing thing.

Instead we are where we are, and there will almost certainly be a lot of extremely unhappy people within the Democratic Party when it's all over and done regardless of the outcome.

I still support Sen. Obama, but as I've always said, I'll vote for Sen. Clinton if she's the nominee. I just hope that whatever process might occur to make that happen, will not alienate those of us who support Obama. While I can't see a way for that to happen at this point, a part of me wishes it could.

Mob mentality has somewhat taken over here at DU, and I admire those who have stayed here and fought against it. I admire Hillary Clinton for her toughness as well.

Since I've been unwilling to seriously entertain the attacks on Obama, I can understand why Clinton supporters would be equally reluctant to listen to the attacks on her.

These attacks on fellow Democrats have become too much. Our party needs to heal. I don't think there's anything I personally can do other than to apologize for my own statements so that's what I'm doing.

Thanks for listening...

FS

[DontTreadOnMe]

1. I've bookmarked this post.

I am curious to see how many Hillary supporters will offer support for Obama.

[dorktv]

5. sorry but it was never Senator Obama I really had a problem with

it is and was his supporters like Flying Squirrel here.

So nope, not going to support him ever. I know when I am not wanted.

[gmudem]

9. Well that's just plain dumb

If you don't like Obama supporters fine but you really are going to risk 4 more years on neo-con rule of America just because you don't like anonymous posters on an internet message board?

Thank you for being a selfish jerk.

[dorktv]

11. I live in Arizona, my vote does not count anyway.

[Umbram]

28. That's fine.

Honestly, if you think that your civic duty to do what is best for this country is trumped by how people on the internet hurt your feelings, you really shouldn't vote.

Voting is a powerful act, and a great honor. It shouldn't be degraded by childishness.

[dorktv]

33. oh it was not just the internets. See post below.

Sorry but his supporters have just ruined him. Not that I was going to be all that enthused about him anyway-saw him in person three times and nearly fell asleep each time.

[Umbram]

43. I'm really not trying to be mean...

but don't you agree that what you are saying is terribly immature?

Why wouldn't you judge Obama by his best supporters, not his worst?

There are Clinton supporters here who have called Obama a crack smoker, an "affirmative action candidate" and right now on one of of the pro-Clinton forums they are talking about having a White People for Clinton get together.

I don't judge Clinton by Clinton's WORST supporters. I judge Clinton by Clinton. If I'm going to judge her by ANY supporters, it's going to be her best supporters.

Or...are you just happy to have any excuse you can get not to like him (which is fine...)

[dorktv]

49. While I felt he was being shoved down my throat by the media...

I really never had much issue with him.

It was his supporters that said they hated me for liking and being okay with Clinton that ruined it. And just a couple days ago someone (who later did apologize for it) called her Hitlery.

Yes, compared her to the worst mass murderer of all time.

So.

[Umbram]

61. So...you agree with me.

If your feelings are personally hurt by idiots, you will take it out on Obama.

Someone (not Obama) hurt your feelings, so you will punish the country by not voting for a Democrat.

[dorktv]

66. Since I live in Arizona where Senator McCain is the nominee...

for one party, I doubt it matters what my vote would be.

But again, I never had much of a problem with Senator Obama. I do however have a problem being hated by people who have no reason to hate me other than I find their candidate to be unpalatable.

[Umbram]

68. Well...Ok, I'm not trying to change your mind...

but you keep switching back and forth between the following:

1.) I don't like Obama, period.
2.) I'd never vote for Obama because of his supporters.
3.) I'm only not voting because my vote doesn't matter.

Voting is your right. Perhaps if you don't like Obama, you should at least vote third party as a sign you are unhappy with your choices. Voting third party shows dissatisfaction. Staying home shows indifference. And remember, there are other progressive causes and Dems on the ticket.

My only point is that if you are voting that way for reason 2, that's not a very good reason.

[dorktv]

70. Here is how it is:

I never said I would stay home that day. I most certainly will go out to vote for a giant list of great local candidates. People I know personally and admire.

However:

1. I never liked Senator Obama but I could have voted for him without any enthusiasm.
2. His supporters have heaped hatred and rude behavior in person and on here and elsewhere to Senator Clinton and even me for not following along. Therefore I shall not support him. Ever.
3. I live in Arizona, we could have nominated Jesus himself and it would not matter.

[Umbram]

72. Ok, thanks. I won't keep this up.

I guess I just can't wrap my mind around the psychology of this part:

"His supporters have heaped hatred and rude behavior in person and on here and elsewhere to Senator Clinton and even me for not following along. Therefore I shall not support him. Ever."

But we've gone in a circle and I was just curious to see if I could understand what would cause someone to think like that. I still don't understand, but that's OK. I don't have to.

Thanks for the chat. Take care.

[dorktv]

74. No worries...

I may change my mind in the future but I just cannot see it at this time. I really cannot.

[cboy4]

78. You're a really decent person Umbram....you're very

smart and soothing, knowing there are a lot of people hurt by how we've been treated by some.

And you know exactly when to just let it go after doing your best to console.

I thought I'd mention I notice you and appreciate your humanity.

[Umbram]

82. It's not deserved.

I'm as snarky as anyone.

And I was just rude to you in #76.

But thanks. We all need to get back on the same page, and soon. That doesn't mean the Primary needs to be over. We just need to remember the big picture.

:toast:

[HughMoran]

15. Agreed

Though I am supporting Obama now (and have been hoping Hillary would bow out for a few weeks), I can't forgive his monsterous supporters here ever.

[dorktv]

19. My mentor called her a "witch" when he meant bitch (it was a work email)

And that is simply one more reason why I cannot ever support Senator Obama.

[Shoelace]

32. so you want McInsane and co. to win?

hey look I'm a Clinton supporter but I know we have to win in November.
Forgive and forget and move on friend.

[donheld]

69. You like McCain better thanyou want Dems to win?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

77. What hurts me is the way that the Dem Party treated the 1st serious female candidate.

I don't really blame Obama for it but I DO blame many in the party for turning on Hillary. I will think twice before blindly supporting this party from now on. As a woman in my 50's I have seen a lot of hatred and discrimination towards women.

[justinboston2008]

7. I think Paul Begala summed it up correctly

When he said you can't win the GE with only African Americans and egg heads in your coalition. As a HRC supporter, I have to say I would vote for Obama even though I would have to hold my nose to do it. I think he is an inexperienced risky candidate who will get eaten alive by the pugs. I think having been served this shit from Axelrod before, in Deval Patrick. I've jumped on the hope and change bandwagon, poured my hard earned money only to be given a Governor who is nothing but a lot of hot air. The fact that they even recycled Patricks speeches on the stump just rubs salt in the wound.

No one in my family... And I LIVE IN BOSTON... Will vote for Barack Obama. I will just because McCain is just too scary. We as a party will regret the way this turned out.

[democracy1st]

13. Well vote for McCain if that makes you happy

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Umbram]

67. Hey, look what crawled out.

CJP with NO new material at all.

Honestly, I expect you to be thinking up some new stuff...I'm always disappointed.

[comrade snarky]

18. Cant win with em

Can you win without them?

You may not think he's the best choice but thanks to those damn voters he's our choice.

[grasswire]

22. not my choice

I called it months ago when Edwards was forced out. I don't think we are going to win in 2008, either with Hillary or Barack. Not even against their piss-poor candidate.

[Erin Elizabeth]

29. That Begala comment is insulting.

There are not JUST "eggheads and African-Americans" in the Obama camp. It's NEVER been just those two groups. How ignorant of him.

[Phillycat]

10. I did - see my thread.

[cynatnite]

12. I'm a good Dem...I support the nominee no matter who it is...

I supported Hillary and will gladly support Obama with no hesitation. It would be the same if Obama lost.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

79. I'm no longer a "good" Dem but will most likely vote for Obama.

I will never forget the way Hillary and women were treated by the Dem Party.

[Mz Pip]

2. I've never hated Hillary

I just like Obama better.

We really really need to join together and focus on McCain. Keep you eye on the prize.

[Kittycat]

3. I just want to forget about it all, and get back to being democrats on the same side.

We have to all work together now to move forward... For the sake of the presidency, and downticket dems.

[Uzybone]

4. Great post

Lets take back this country together.

[Marie26]

6. It's all good

While you can still see me. :) I also hope everyone will get over the primary fighting to support the Dem nominee. There's way too much at stake.

[OzarkDem]

8. And we feel sad that Obama will lose the GE

if Clinton pulls out. Enjoy yourself for now, there will be hell to pay later.

[high density]

14. You sound like Bush talking about Iraq

Can't pull out now! We must win!

[OzarkDem]

23. Winning the GE is important

winning the primary isn't enough. You do realize that don't you?

[democrattotheend]

37. So I guess we can count on you to do everything you can to make it happen?

Especially in Ohio, we will need all hands on deck.

I know there are a lot of hard feelings right now, but I hope that we can all come together to win in November.

[democracy1st]

16. Don't you think thats a sorry way to look at this primary

she couldn't beat him :wtf:

[OzarkDem]

24. See post above

Obama is a loser in the GE. There are no caucuses in the GE and he can't win the electoral vote without winning battleground states. Sorry, its the reality of the situation.

[Erin Elizabeth]

SHE couldn't beat HIM in the primary and you think

SHE could beat McCain the general?

Please think about that for a hot second. It doesn't make ANY sense. He ran the better campaign. He got more votes. He got more delegates. He had more money raised and still does. He has more money raised than McCain.

Puhleeze. I get that you really fervently HOPE that McCain will be president, but that doesn't make it so, ok?

[mkultra]

20. you were wrong about hrc winning the nom

and your wrong about obama losing the GE.

[OzarkDem]

26. If Obama wins the nom

its only because he rigged the race, cutting out MI and FL and relying on caucus victories that don't translate into regular election victories.

Clever, but it won't get him anywhere in the GE. If you don't believe me, check the polls. And wait til the GOP starts attacking him as Clinton refused to do.

[Erin Elizabeth]

34. OMG that is the biggest wad of delusion I've ever seen

on DU and that's saying a lot!

He took his name off of the Michigan ballot, as they were INSTRUCTED TO DO BY THE PARTY. She? Did not.

And what the hell with your last comment? As Clinton refused to do? Clinton REFUSED to attack Obama?

OMG. I don't know whether to laugh or feel scared for your emotional state.

[MonkeyFunk]

84. They were not instructed by the party

to remove their names from the ballot. Don't be silly.

[Erin Elizabeth]

30. How many times are you going to post that?

That must be the fifth time I've seen you post that in different threads.

I guess you need to start working for McCain, then.

[Fox Mulder]

39. How unnecessary.

You should be backing the Dem. candidate. Being defeated already means defeat in November. You should work really hard to get Obama (if he's the nominee) elected.

[Condem]

42. Ozark

What the fuck is that all about?

[Umbram]

52. If you are shocked then you don't know that poster. (nt)

[Condem]

58. Good cheer, tonight, Umbram!

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Good post FlyingSquirrel

It was nice to read you make some of the points that you made. I expect Obama to be our nominee and if so I plan to work hard to help get him elected.

[Catherine Vincent]

21. Apology not accepted.

nt

[grasswire]

27. it isn't that easy, is it?

I'm an Edwards supporter who began to defend Hillary supporters here (even though I don't like her) against the attacks on Hillary and her supporters. For that, I was attacked as well.

Obama supporters have managed to piss off and hurt many thousands of Democrats. Some won't ever get over it. I'm feeling kind of mean about it myself. I don't think we're going to win in 2008.

[dorktv]

36. Eh, we will win. Just at what cost?

If Obama was supposed to be all about unifying how come the party is still so split?

[dorktv]

44. so much for being the unity candidate.

[jbm]

55. I agree with you..

I think most of the Obama voters showed up for him in the primary. That great huge pile of General Election votes are going to belong to McCain. Hillary would have been a longshot, but Obama doesn't have a chance in hell.

Edwards would have been an easy win. We totally threw this presidency away.

[musicblind]

73. I agree with you. I will personally vote for Obama and support him totally because I believe

that he, as with Hillary, is also an excellent candidate! But I am starting to understand why many many democrats will never be able to vote for him... NOT because of what Obama has done (again he too is an excellent candidate) but because of what his supporters did. They don't seem to realize just how awful and vile they were. They were mean to an unnecessary extent. It is much like the high school jock beating up the dork in the bathroom stall and then asking the dork to vote for his girlfriend for class president. How did they honestly think this would turn out? They were warned repeatedly everytime they mistreated the others here. They were never too bad to me... so I am certainly going to be voting for Obama, donating to him, and helping him... but the things they did to some of the people on here made me want to puke at the thought that democrats would behave that way.

[Fox Mulder]

40. That's not very progressive, is it?

[Catherine Vincent]

46. No, it isn't.

Obamathugs here have rubbed off on me somewhat.

[Maven]

47. Neither is calling an entire group of loyal Democrats Republicans, freepers and neocons

because they support a different centrist from your centrist. Or inviting an entire group of DUers with certain avatars to post so you could make sure they were on ignore.

[Fox Mulder]

62. But the poster apologized.

And it sound sincere.

Shouldn't that be enough?

[Hoof Hearted]

25. Deff Leppard

It's too late..............

[Umbram]

31. Good post. (nt)

[highplainsdem]

38. FS, I'll accept your apology, and add that it was owed to her supporters.

As you said, the number of Obama and Clinton supporters are pretty evenly divided in the real world, despite the predominance of Obama supporters here.

And posts like the one you made about Hillary avatars were divisive and harmful.

But we need to move on. We have to accept that backers of both Clinton and Obama have had valid reasons for their preferences. And we have to find common ground and unite to defeat McCain.

[Erin Elizabeth]

41. I'm not a Hillary supporters but I gotta give you credit

for apologizing. A lot of people don't even do that. Even if some people don't want to accept your apology, the important thing is that you gave it and it was sincere.

[jbm]

45. you can't just say sorry and make it all OK again..

The bridges to Hillary supporters have been burned, blown up, torn down, and removed from the premises. I'm not just talking about on the internet. Hillary has been trashed and vilified by left leaning media, organizations, and occasionally her fellow Democratic office holders. The Obama people will disagree, but no one treated their candidate or his supporters the way Hillary Clinton was treated. I don't support groups that are abusive and cruel.

Reaching out with that olive branch at this point is like the guy that beats his wife every night, sends flowers every morning, and is totally baffled when she leaves him. At least have the decency to stop insulting us with the conciliatory post bullshit.

[Erin Elizabeth]

54. No one's making you read the threads.

For that matter, no one is holding you hostage in DU. Or chained you to your computer.

Which is why your analogy to a beaten abused wife is just INSULTING.

Now, before you start in with the apology thing, I'm not really concerned with whether you accept FS's apology or not. Do, don't, whatever.

But to compare reading posts on the internet to being beaten by your spouse is just GROSS. It's ignorant.

Reaching out with that olive branch at this point is like the guy that beats his wife every night, sends flowers every morning, and is totally baffled when she leaves him. At least have the decency to stop insulting us with the conciliatory post bullshit.

Don't insult people who have really lived that shit with that comparison, ok?

[jbm]

60. oh please..cut the theatrical crap as well

give me a friggin break.

[Erin Elizabeth]

63. Theatrical crap?

Oh that's rich! The person who compared being tortured with internet messages to being an abused wife is calling me theatrical?

Just no. What you said was really gross and insulting to survivors of abuse. And you know it. Get off DU and turn off your computer if it's so upsetting to you that you feel physically beaten.

[Guaranteed]

75. We're going to have to let them get this stuff out. nt

[SaveOurDemocracy]

80. My feelings, exactly. Thanks for posting this.

jbm (1000+ posts) Wed May-07-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message


45. you can't just say sorry and make it all OK again..

The bridges to Hillary supporters have been burned, blown up, torn down, and removed from the premises. I'm not just talking about on the internet. Hillary has been trashed and vilified by left leaning media, organizations, and occasionally her fellow Democratic office holders. The Obama people will disagree, but no one treated their candidate or his supporters the way Hillary Clinton was treated. I don't support groups that are abusive and cruel.

Reaching out with that olive branch at this point is like the guy that beats his wife every night, sends flowers every morning, and is totally baffled when she leaves him. At least have the decency to stop insulting us with the conciliatory post bullshit.

[emilyg]

48. I don't consider your apology sincere.

[rasputin1952]

50. Thanks...If more had that POV, this would be a far happier place,

I think that we will come together, but it will take time. Your post is one of healing, thank you.

:hi:

[Umbram]

65. Yes, a healing post - which has caused the OPer to be compared to a wife beater...

it is unfortunate when someone tries to do the right thing here they are swiftly attacked.

[FlyingSquirrel]

87. It's ok, I can take it.

In reality what's happening, for the most part i think, is that people are taking out their frustrations regarding a large number of Obama posters here out on me, kind of lumping me in with the rest of them. But that's ok, like I said I'm only one person and I can only apologize for what I've done. Nobody is required to accept my individual apology, and certainly if they did it wouldn't translate into forgiving the others who haven't apologized.

It might be a lot different if we got, say, 1,000 apology threads on the same day. There are others out there with a lot more to apologize for and that probably won't happen.

If there's any consolation, it's in knowing that if they keep up their attacks on Hillary once we have a nominee, they'll probably be TS'd.

[DeepModem Mom]

51. Thanks for this post, FS. nt

[adarling]

53. great post thanks :)

I too am sad for Hillary, but i will support whomever the nominee is. they are both amazing and i wish they would just join up

[Johnny Battleground]

56. Hear, Hear...

Had Obama been vetted properly and early enough, she'd be doing battle with the opposition...
... months ago.

Instead she has to fight and win the nomination to ensure we don't get slaughtered.

She won MI, FL and virtually all the biggies.

Obama?
Wright slammed his balls between two large rocks; Obama's been neutered politically.
He went from Stud to Steer at an amazing speed.
If Obama wins, the R's will have Rocky Mountain Oysters.

His platform...
Hope
Change
Unity...

...Rings feeble.
Hillary has more balls to put up in the GE than Obama.

Super Delegates Vote Hillary.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. Nice post, Squirrel...

I feel positive that we will come together as a party.

[cboy4]

59. This is like cheating and fighting and spitting at your

opponent during a game, and then once you win, you say, "ya know, I'm sorry."

It takes guts to apologize during the process.

It takes no guts to apologize after you have the prize secure.

Thanks for listening...

[Umbram]

76. It takes no guts to rub something in the face of someone who is trying to apologize either

If you think the apology is insincere, you could just move along and ignore it.

Seems you'd rather rub it in their face instead.

One wonders, why should any of us try to move back towards being unified when this is the kind of response they can expect....

[FloridaJudy]

64. I also would like to extend the olive branch

My vote doesn't count, for obvious reasons (see User Name), but I've said all along I would vote for Senator Clinton if she became the nominee.

All our votes will count in November, though - or at least I hope they will. This election is just too damned important to let it go to the Republicans. The last eight years have been a freaking nightmare, and I don't think we can survive another four years of the same disastrous policies. You may not be crazy about Obama's style, and I'm not enamored of Clinton's, but either would light years ahead of McCain as the next POTUS.

We don't need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but we need to find a way to work together. The consequences if we don't would be just too dire.

Thank you. FJ

[Two Americas]

71. generous

I applaud your gesture.

I think that the breach may not heal, because it reflects a profound and growing split in the party that is based on substance and is not merely a matter of candidate loyalty and bruised feelings.

[cbayer]

81. We both need a hug

:hug:

[BigBearJohn]

83. Nicely said. Everything will be alright. Family fights is all.

[McCamy Taylor]

85. That was so sweet! With this kind of spirit we can do anything!

:loveya:

[doyourealize1]

86. Exactly what I have been thinking

Thank you for your voice of reason. The mob mentality in here is out of hand.