Some People Said ...

[NanceGreggs]

Some people said that a young newcomer to the national political scene would never make it past the first few weeks of the primaries … but he did.

Some people said that a fresh-faced, humble man was no match for the legendary, well-oiled Clinton campaign machine … but he was.

Some people said that one candidate was ‘inevitable’, and would have it ‘wrapped-up’ by Super Tuesday … but it never happened.

Some people said that eloquent speeches wouldn’t capture the imagination of new voters and bring them into the Democratic fold … but they did.

Some people said that a voice that spoke of hope and change would never be heard above the din of ‘politics as usual’ … but it was.

Some people said that focusing on the big money and the big states was the only way to win … but it wasn’t.

Some people said that appealing to the grassroots was a waste of time … but it paid off.

Some people said that negative, ‘kitchen sink’ campaigning was expected, and anyone who wouldn’t sink to those depths was a loser … but they were wrong.

Some people said that big rallies and huge crowds wouldn’t translate into votes … but it happened.

Some people said that the relentless attacks by the media would destroy a man who chose to be truthful and honest … but they only made him stronger.

Now some people are saying that the kid from Illinois – the one who has a vision for a better America, the one who understands that accepting the status quo is just another way of saying don’t fight against the system that has failed us all, the one who encourages diplomacy over war, solutions to problems rather than band-aid rhetoric – can’t possibly win in November.

Well, all you have to do is look back at the predictions of some people; it’s obvious they don’t have a very good track record when it comes to knowing what they’re talking about.

[FlyingSquirrel]

1. I suppose it's useless to resist...

recommending this thread.

[elocs]

94. "Useless to resist"--that's what I once thought of the Clinton candidacy...

like the Borg, resistance if futile. I bet she cannot believe the way things have turned out so far. Let's hope her disappointment is complete.

[MadMaddie]

118. Hillary has done this to herself by becoming Joe Lieberman.

She is selling out and using Rove tactics to win. She has no one to blame but her and her campaign staff.

[cliffordu]

2. Once again, Nance - excellent work and a breath of fresh

air in this somewhat stale library of stubborn pastorbaitors and "He's unelectable" racialists....

Kicked and recommended? Why of course!!


:patriot:

[shraby]

3. I didn't even try to resist.

Nance is great!

[grantcart]

4. Mr. Some People of Schenectady New York is known to his neighbors to be an idiot

[graycem]

5. Indeed!

I love the way they continually underestimate him. Makes all the victories along the way a little sweeter.

Another inspiring post. :)

[saltpoint]

6. It's mighty nice to read language when it's handled as well

as this writers handles it.

Also Nance, your posts are generous in that they attract a large number of readers and we get to enjoy their enjoyment from their responses to your posts.

That is an original lift and added booster rockets thrown in.

One more fine thing you've put in front of us and here's one more thanks in return.

[NanceGreggs]

9. As always, OC ...

... :blush:

Thank you SO much!

[saltpoint]

11. A big hug for the 5th of May, Nance.

[NanceGreggs]

13. And a big hug ...

... for every day to you, sir.

:hug:

[FrenchieCat]

7. Thank you Nance!

Never underestimate a strong determined charismatic accomplished intelligent individual.
I know that I never have.

[NanceGreggs]

12. And that's the true joy of it all ...

... isn't it, FC?

He is not being presented as being something - he really IS something, isn't he?

[FrenchieCat]

40. He certainly, certainly IS!

:)

[Triana]

8. THANK YOU Nance! K & R n/t

[ClayZ]

10. Yeah! K and R

[SeattleGirl]

14. Some people may say that, but THIS person says YES WE CAN!

And well said, Nance!

[bleever]

15. Weird thing is,

his wife says he's always thinking three steps ahead, and it was just in the last month I figured outthat that was true, and the explanation of his first class running of class five rapids.

It feels like he's applying a full court press to the stall-ball of politics as usual. I think it's working well, and working not by accident, but by a very intelligent design.

[NanceGreggs]

19. It could be said ...

... that we shouldn't judge the running of a presidency by the running of a campaign.

However - Obama's campaign has been a sight to behold: fiscally responsible, always anticipatory of what's ahead, delegation of authority to those with the aptitude to deal with problems they are most skilled at handling (no heckova job Brownies here), an ability to switch from defense to offense with precision and speed - the list goes on and on.

Hill's campaign has immersed itself in playing checkers - seemingly not noticing that this was a game of chess all along.

[MadMaddie]

119. Nance a always you are right on...

my favorite...

<snip>
Hill's campaign has immersed itself in playing checkers - seemingly not noticing that this was a game of chess all along.
<snip>

How perfect is that statement....her campaign has been 10 steps behind since the first Super Tuesday.

Bravo Nance!!

[concerned canadian]

16. prophetic poetry

Beautiful. Inspiring. Thankyou

[NanceGreggs]

21. Welcome to DU!

And thank you!

:hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

17. My dear Nance...

Reading your threads at the end of the day is like getting the best dessert ever!

Of course, girl...K&R

Nobody says it better....Nobody!

Thank you, sweetie...

:hug:

:patriot:

[2rth2pwr]

18. Some people said that Kantor was a racist.

[Hissyspit]

23. But not Barack Obama.

When Hillary Clinton said John McCain would make a better commander-in-chief than Obama, it wasn't some people, it was her.

When Hillary Clinton said Obama wasn't a Muslim, as far as she knew, it wasn't some people, it was her.

Don't mean to be contrarian, but as has been pointed out on this forum many times, there is a difference between what supporters do and what the candidate does.

And there were plenty of Obama supporters who didn't think Kantor said what he said and many who didn't care one way or another.

[scheming daemons]

63. Barack Obama wasn't one of those people, nor was anyone affiliated with his campaign

[rodeodance]

147. But many Obama fans on DU did

[The Doctor.]

20. I know Some People!

... And you're right!

Sweet and succint. Thanks Nance!

:kick:

[Binka]

36. Doc I Saw Your Ass Kickin On Another Thread

Tell your wife to be careful, I just might come to your door and steal you away! You kill me!:loveya:

[The Doctor.]

42. Are you kidding?

She'd pay you just to get me out of the house!

Thanks love.





{OE}- You didn't mean this by any chance;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5800373#5805684

Did you?

Nah, TA's good people... I'm just really good at being a jerk. :evilgrin:

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Well said NanceGreggs....

It reminds me of the Republicans...


Republicans said that we would be greeted in Iraq as liberators and that we would be showered with flowers....but we weren't

Republicans said that the Iraq war would pay for itself using Iraqi oil...but we're going to end up paying trillions

Republicans said that US forces would only be in Iraq for a few months...but they're still there

Republicans said that if we have a surge of US forces in Baghdad we will end the "resistance"...but we didn't

Now Republicans are saying that if the US withdraws from Iraq, there will be total instability and we need to stay. I don't think we need to listen to the people that got us into this bogus war for oil. We also shouldn't listen to Hillary supporters that say Obama can't win in November.

[NanceGreggs]

24. GREAT analogies all!!!

Now I wish I could REC your reply!

[2rth2pwr]

25. Some people said, Obama would transcend racial and partisan divides.

[scheming daemons]

64. And they were right.....

[Barrymores Ghost]

104. Thanks a bunch to Hillary and her ilk for doing their damndest...

...to keep race in front of our face.

There isn't a card that she isn't willing to play, and that was the first out of the deck.

Oh, I'm sorry...you were trying to be sardonic?

[bjobotts]

127. Soem say he will eventually push a not for profit single payer healthcare plan

and get rid of the health care profiteers.

[bjobotts]

128. that he will realize obstructionist republicans wil never be bipartisan

[bjobotts]

129. that he doesn't need to threaten regime change to get Iran to do what we want

[bjobotts]

130. that nuclear power is not the answer though their lobbyists pay well

[bjobotts]

131. some say there are no perfect candidates so we must get them to listen to us

[bjobotts]

132. Obama is not "the" answer. He is "an" answer, the best we have for now

[dmr]

26. You know, I'm pretty sick of these people

I'm sick of those politicians, pundits, knowitalls and whathaveyous that have said so little, but yet, said so much.

Or put another way: said so much, but yet said so little.

And then what they should have said - they've said nothing.

Name the topic.

If it was/is something honestly important or vital for the good of this nation and it's people ... to be researched and discussed - at depth ...

... Iraq. War dead. War & Crisis Profiteering. Iran. Katrina. North American Union. Super Highway. Privatization. Illegal Wiretapping. Torture. Politicization Of Government. Plame. Corporatism. POTUS Powers. Fabricated Intelligence. Separation of Powers. Police State. Missing Emails. Signing Statements. Subverting the Constitution. Secrecy. Banking Industry. No Fly Lists. Gag Orders. Habeas Corpus. Spying On Americans. Global Warming. Great Wealth Transfer. Contaminated Food Human & Pet Foodstuff. Honey Bees. Foreign Control of Ports ...

Just to name a few .........

What have these politicians, pundits, knowitalls and whathaveyous talked about?

Apologies, Nance, I didn't mean to take away from your thread, because what you wrote has much meaning. But I'm sick and tired of those politicians, pundits, knowitalls and whathaveyous.

[NanceGreggs]

27. No apologies necessary ...

You didn't take away from the discussion - you added to it.

[2rth2pwr]

28. Some people said, that they could no more disown their pastor than disown their

racist Granny.

[NanceGreggs]

30. Somewhere on this board ...

... there is a "but he doesn't wear a flag-pin on his lapel" thread that requires your immediate attention.

Ever hear of separation of church and state, or the Constitution - which states that religion shall not be a litmus test for any candidate for elected office?

BTW, "The Family", a book about Hillary's 'religious' group is due out later this month. How about we meet up then and discuss the religious leanings of the candidates, okay?

[shrdlu]

29. Old Somesay...

...my favorite authority.

[2rth2pwr]

31. Some people said, there is a typical white person.

[NanceGreggs]

32. And some people said ...

... "I remember it vividly. We had to run for cover because we were surrounded by sniper-fire."

You really don't want to go there.

[eridani]

45. That wasn't all that big a deal in and of itself

All politicians pad their resumes. The big fecking deal was that she said the same goddam thing THREE MORE TIMES after the YouTube video demonstrating the opposite had a million hits.

[Cheap_Trick]

59. oh, but he does

Love his Marvel character avatars, but he's clueless.... Go ahead Nance, take him there.

[2rth2pwr]

69. She has a flair for the dramatic.

[Barrymores Ghost]

153. She has a flair for lying her head off...or for wild hallucinations...

...but I'm afraid "the dramatic" just doesn't quite capture the fullness of her "flair."

[ladywnch]

77. old 'somesay'......isn't he the first cousin of 'overzelous staffer'? LMAO

[scheming daemons]

65. And you're that person..... you embarrass all of us whites.....

[livingmadness]

33. Nance (or is that Ms Greggs?!)

I read here far more often that write, and have done for some time. Your posts are always insightful and inspiring so thanks!

[NanceGreggs]

34. Thanks so much, livingmadness ...

... and welcome aboard the Good Ship DU, matey!

(And it's 'Nance' - I've been married too many times to be able to keep track of the last name.)

[livingmadness]

35. Ahhhh - so you have the experience to know a good man when you see one

I knew those smarts came from somewhere!!

[NanceGreggs]

38. Well ...

... third time lucky!

As my girlfriends used to say of me, "The adage that there are plenty of fish in the sea isn't an admonition that you have to date the entire aquarium."

[OwnedByFerrets]

81. Thanks Nance......

if there were justice, you would now owe me a new keyboard.......I just spewed my drink all in it.:rofl: :rofl: Thanks for another great post hon.;-)

[VotesForWomen]

37. OMG. Obama is not some anti-establishment radical; he is *owned* by the establishment, and any one w

who thinks otherwise will be sadly disappointed. no big deal though; dems are used to disappointment.

[NanceGreggs]

39. Yeah, mm hmm ...

... whatever. Thanks for dropping by.

[DaDooRonRon]

54. Gee, I thought after all your hosanna to the highest prose

you'd be able to come up with something better than "whatever."

Of course, if you actually did the research on said candidate then perhaps you'd realize that said candidate is most assuredly bought and paid for with corporate money. I believe it's a prerequisite for running for office - you know, talk it up a lot for the minions but stay true to the bottom line. Kind of like walk toughly but carry a small feather.

But it's much easier to pretend - and it gets a lot more recs.

Too bad "16 Magazine" is gone - he'd be dreamy on the cover!!

[TBF]

57. Where is your evidence of corporate money paying for Obama?

I think you are confused with Bill Clinton and his millions of dollars of speaking fees.

[DaDooRonRon]

89. Check the contributions from the pharmacutical industry for starters

Attorneys, insurance - the lists for both candidates are all over the place and quite easy to find.

disclaimer: I am supporting NEITHER candidate this time around, since I find them both to be sorely lacking.

We'll support Israel on the mission to wipe Palestine (and Palestinians) off the map, we'll take care of Iran if we need to, we'll support our troops.

And (drum roll) we'll do it <sigh> together!

(But don't ask about universal single-pay health care - if I say something about that the money tree dries up.)

edit: Here's a little bit of "follow the money' to get you started.

"Obama's campaign was bending with fierce plutocratic winds fanned by giant global investment firms and corporations."

Follow the money. Obama's presidential campaign has received nearly $5 million dollars from securities and investment firms and $866,000 from commercial banks through October of 2007. Obama's top contributor so far is Goldman Sachs (provider of $369,078 to Obama), identified by Center for Responsive Politics (CRP) investigators as "a major proponent of privatizing Social Security as well as legislation that would essentially deregulate the investment banking/securities industry." Eight of Obama's top twenty election investors are securities and investment firms: Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros. (number 2 at $229,090), J.P. Morgan Chase and Co. (# 4 at $216,759), Citadel Investment Group (#7 at 4166,608), UBS AG ($146,150), UBS-America ($106,680), Morgan Stanley ($104,421), and Credit Suisse Group ($92,300). The last two firms are also known to be leading privatization advocates (Center for Responsive Politics 2007a).

Meanwhile, Obama's presidential run has been "assisted" by more than $2 million from the health care sector and nearly $400,000 from the insurance industry through October of 2007 (Center for Responsive Politics 2007b). Obama received $708,000 from medical and insurance interests between 2001 and 2006 (Center for Responsive Politics 2007c). His wife Michelle, a fellow Harvard Law graduate, was until a recently a Vice President for Community and External Affairs at the University of Chicago Hospitals, a position that paid her $273, 618 in 2006 (Sweet 2007).

and this:

Obama's rise to national prominence and presidential viability, Helman discovered, depended significantly on PAC and lobbyist money."
As Los Angeles Times reporter Dan Morain explained, "some of the most influential players, lawyers and consultants among them, skirt disclosure requirements by merely advising clients and associates who do actual lobbying, and avoiding regular contact with policymakers. Obama's ban does not cover such individuals."

more at: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0712/S00181.htm

[NashVegas]

61. Isn't Tiger Beat Still Around?

[DaDooRonRon]

90. Don't look at me

I'm childless. :)

[VotesForWomen]

115. excellent! like your name; i go by BeeBoppinLula on some other sites. :-)

[satireV]

72. You're sounding more and more like FAUX Noise

Plus... though Obama claims to be the agent of change, he embraces and is embraced by the establishment......

Do the Kennedys ring a bell? Bill Richardson? To name just two establishment figures who support Obama against the will of their state primary voters.

Plus Obama claim that he wants Super Delegates to follow the will of the people in each state seems to be a convenience when it is Ted Kennedy and Bill Richardson's votes he wants.

[NanceGreggs]

76. Is this today's talking point?

I thought the argument from the Hill camp was that the delegates were free to make up their own minds - or even change their minds at the last minute, and vote for Hillary?

[satireV]

78. perhaps the Obama compound forgot what they wanted

First they were FOR SDs to be able to vote for anyone they want ..... back in Feb... then they were against it... now who knows what lurks inside the fortress of the Obama compound with respect to super delegates.... it seems to change as often as their faith.

Perhaps the Obama supporters here on DU have a special pipeline to what lurks inside the Obama compound. Most people never know what will be the next proclamation from inside the Obama fortress.

hey Greggs do me a favor and put me on ignore.

[NanceGreggs]

79. I don't have anyone on ignore.

So if you don't want to communicate with me, why don't you put ME on ignore - or simply don't respond to my threads.

Simple enough?

[VotesForWomen]

114. If you don't think the MSM put Obama where he is, you have lost all touch with reality. and who owns

the MSM? why, the same corporate aristocracy that owns everything else in this country. btw, i'm not exempting hillary from the list of 'owned' politicians; i just think it's laughable that O supporters sincerely believe that Obama is 'different.' clue: if O was actually 'different' he would have been out of the race a long time ago, like Kucinich, Ron Paul, Gravel, etc.

[bjobotts]

134. The reality we all know is that there are always political power games behind the scenes

[bjobotts]

135. The hope is that one doesn't loose site of one's original inspiration to care

[FrenchieCat]

41. You mean *owned* like Slaves used to be......

Or wasn't the elaborated associations to "radicals" like Wright and Ayers "radical" enough for you?

Which is it? Y'all gotta decide at some point. Can't have him being so many things to so many people. He'll just win that way! :)

[mcollier]

68. Todays Big Number!

1.5 Million individual donors to the Obama Campaign... Who believe their voice will not be drowned out by special interest groups and lobbyists when Obama is President of the United States.

Love you Nance...

[DaDooRonRon]

92. "Who believe their voice will not be drowned out by special interest groups"

And who are the biggest suckers to come down the pike since Barnum put up canvas tents.

You just keep waiting for that single-payer insurance to come along.

And those reduced hospital costs.

And those troops to come home right away.

Yes, you just keep waiting.

Mind if I rifle through your pockets while you do?

That'll be the only change that either of us finds.

[VotesForWomen]

111. WTF? all that shows is that he likes to play all sides of the fence, like the politician he is. i'

i'm not saying he's any worse than a lot of the other politicians out there; he's just not any better. if he was truly 'anti-establishment' he would have been out of the race ages ago, like kucinich. if you don't see that, you are naive indeed.

[VotesForWomen]

117. btw, are you saying i'm racist because i said he was owned by the establishment? you know, women ha

have been owned by men in every corner of the earth since day one, but i am quite able to understand the usage of the word 'own' in a figurative sense and not see meanings which simply aren't there. i'd have to say this is a perfect example of Obama supporters claiming racism, or racial insensitivity at the least, when there is not a grain of truth to it.

[eridani]

46. True, but he is spending the boodle he got from them very differently than Clinton

Oranizers instead of shitstains like Mark Penn.
Paying bills owed to little people instead of Mark Penn.
Voter registration instead of voter suppression.

[TBF]

58. How is it true?

Don't let them convince you so easily, eridani. Obama's only money is from the books he wrote himself, and the small donors who are banding together to support him. He doesn't accept PAC money.

[eridani]

102. I'm talking about max donations from the haves and have more individuals on Wall Street

Both Obama and Clinton are collecting way more from them than McCain. Look--don't delude yourself that Obama is not a triangulating centrist who had a nice chat with the PTB before running in the first place. This lefty knows that, and is supporting him anyway because he is calling for more ordinary people to get active and stay active in politics, and he is spending a lot of his money towards that end.

[uponit7771]

48. His not taking PAC of lobbyist money makes him LESS "owned" by anyone to me.

[walldude]

91. Owned?

Might want to re-think how you play that card..

[VotesForWomen]

116. Are you accusing me of being racist because i said he was 'owned' (by corporate interests)???!! be a

be a man and come right out and say it at least, why don't you. jeezus h. christ. no, the O camp doesn't play the race card... no, it's all the evil racist Hillbots.

[berni_mccoy]

98. Hey, VotesForWomen... I wonder if you are from WVWV, that organization making the illegal Robocalls?

[intaglio]

43. Some people idolise one person

and although there are Obama idolisers they make up a smaller part of "his" community than the Clinton idolisers are of "hers".

[Eurobabe]

44. Well said Nance. As usual. K&R

[argyl]

47. Some people say his popularity among the young will not engage them enough

to get them to the polls in November. Well, at my Democratic primary polling location in Denton,Twxas there were hundreds of fresh faced young first time voters waiting for the polls to close so they could cast their caucus votes for Obama.

If they were willing to stand in line for up to two hours on a chilly night in March to vote for him they'll be there in November.

Obama can and will win convincingly in 2008 and will be reelected by a landslide in 2012.

[The Wizard]

49. "Some people are saying"

is the qualifier Pox (deliberate typo) News uses to cover its ass just prior to launching into propaganda that can't be proved. It's a good way for we in the reality based community to raise doubt about all things Republican.
Chris Wallace tried it with Bill Clinton and then retreated into his shell when Bill Clinton proceeded to batter him like a bastard step child.
We have to use their tactics against them. Some people are saying John McCain had intimate relations with (fill in the blank).
As Lyndon Johnson said to his campaign manager when LBJ told him to accuse his opponent of having sex with a pig during Johnson's first run for Congress. "Make him deny it."
As for those pundits: Some people are saying they're as useless as a bull with tits. Where's Bob "Zero for 8" Shrum when you need him?
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
(H.L. Mencken)
The Internet changes everything, and those who keep making predictions based on how information used to be disseminated are, according to Bob Dylan, "One too many mornings, and a thousand miles behind."

[mrbluto]

125. Regarding: "We have to use their tactics against them."

We do?

You have met the enemy, and that enemy is you.

[The Wizard]

149. Proud to be an enemy of

Right wing douche bags.

[DaDooRonRon]

160. Evidently, that person thinks that his/her pig is better than their pig,

due perhaps to the type of mud it rolls around in.

The hypocrisy is just off the charts, but sometimes all you can do is laugh.

No matter what "some people say", the majority here don't "get it."


Hey, isn't that a cliff just up aheaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddddddddddddd.................

<thud> :)

[formercia]

50. Resistance is futile

all of you are owned by us.

First we win the Party, then we win the General Election.

There are two revolutions to fight. The first one is now.

[Fyddlestyx]

51. K & R

That was beautiful! Thanks!

:applause:

[ekwhite]

52. Another great post Nance K&R

[snappyturtle]

53. K&R This is right on. Hopefully, tomorrow Obama can wrap it up! n/t

[TragedyandHope]

55. K&R - America is ready to make its own choices

and we choose CHANGE.

[TBF]

56. K&R Nance - very nicely done.

[Scurrilous]

60. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Ichingcarpenter]

62. kick, nominated.. n/t

[me b zola]

66. K&R!

:applause:

[tabasco]

67. Thanks for a great post.

We are at a turning point for this country.

I hope we take the correct path.

The anti-Obama forces are in a frenzy and I hope people can see through the smoke screen.

[fascisthunter]

70. And This Person Says....

thank you.

[King Coal]

71. Some people said some people were grasping at straws when some people

weren't even drowning. Some people said that Clinton's actions were the result of evil and not unethical planning. Some people will always throw some people under some bus, as some say.

[bjobotts]

136. BTW.I'm sure one could use the same "some say" tactic for Clinton to express support

[bjobotts]

137. I wish it were Obama with Kucinich's brain and Edwards drive. I wish Obama called for impeachment

[swimmernsecretsea]

73. Batted that one out of McCovey Cove, didn't ya?

I love you all over again, Nance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCovey_Cove

[thoughtcrime1984]

74. Always enjoy your post, Nance, well said!

K&R

[LisaM]

75. Humble?

Humble? who are you referring to?

[mnhtnbb]

85. Yeah, I laughed at that one, too.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

80. Short and sweet.

Thx

[Xenocrates]

82. I was expecting the last line to read...

"I'm NanceGreggs and I approve of this message." I think I've seen too many poli-commericals. ;)

R & K!

[Fearless]

86. I was expecting it to be about Abe Lincoln... oh well... close enough.

[Indenturedebtor]

83. Wonderful post as always... thanks Nance n/t

[chill_wind]

84. This person

says thanks for another great piece of perspective.


K&R.

[Kitty Herder]

87. Excellent post, as usual, Nance!!

[1trackmindGOP]

88. Thanks...I needed to hear this.

[IronLionZion]

93. Some people said "No you can't".

It's something like Howard Dean's campaign again but done right this time.

[K Gardner]

95. Nance.. you are hereby found guilty of Soaring Prose. I feel the Heavens Opening Up ! K&R

[lucky leftie]

96. "Some people " are so hyperbolic...

...that they can't resist painting Clinton and her supporters as dumb/evil/racist/deranged or all of the above.

This is just a variation on the well-worn theme "Your candidate sucks and you do, too, because you support him/her." It's tiresome, counter-productive and divisive.

Obama may well be our nominee but he will need some of Hillary's supporters in order to beat McCain and I suspect that insulting them is NOT the best way to win them over. Try talking up your candidate instead of endlessly bashing Hillary's supporters, accusing them of playing the gender card, or implying that they simply aren't as virtuous/smart/great as Obama's supporters. Contrary to what you think, the vast majority of them are probably decent people and good democrats who happen to believe that the other candidate is the best one for the job.

[NanceGreggs]

101. I beg your pardon?

Please point out where in this OP - or anywhere, for that matter - I have ever stated anything close to: "Your candidate sucks and you do, too, because you support him/her."

I have never called a Hillary supporter a Hillbot, or any other derogatory term. I have never questioned a Hillary supporter's intentions, motives, or reasons for supporting their candidate-of-choice.

I have never suggested to a Hillary supporter that they are kool-aid drinkers, cultists, or mesmerized 'crazed fans' who have been somehow duped into supporting her, nor have I ever inferred that a Hillary supporter has based that support on being ignorant, ill-informed, or easily-led.

However, I have not always been afforded the same courtesy from Hillary supporters.

I had been a true admirer of Hillary for many years, and in fact praised her abilities and her intelligence often in my posts here. I did not criticize her until own statements and conduct became such that she warranted criticism - statements and conduct which escalated, and continue to this day.

So the next time you want to accuse me, or anyone else here, of indulging in the kind of behaviour you have described, you might want to read their past writings before making such accusations, lest you make a damned fool of yourself - as you now most certainly have done.

[lucky leftie]

105. Oh, please...

...spare me the outrage, and the personal atttacks. I said your post was a variation on that theme, which is a constantly recurring one on this site. You may not have used the term "hillbot," but who are the talkative, anonymous "people" you refer to in this latest piece? The people who "said that negative, ‘kitchen sink’ campaigning was expected, and anyone who wouldn’t sink to those depths was a loser," the people who "are saying that the kid from Illinois...can’t possibly win in November?" You know, the ones who "don't know what they're talking about." This is clearly a reference to Clinton and people who support her candidacy.

And by the way, it is far from certain that Obama can win this thing in November. He is not a sure bet, any more than Clinton is. I can see potential problems for both of them in a GE, so those 'people" who say Obama can't win may be right. Of course, the ones who say Clinton can't win may be right, too.

[NanceGreggs]

106. The "some people" in this piece refer to exactly THAT ...

... "some people": including pundits, columnists, media types, as well as Hill supporters, Indies, GOPers, even those who don't participate in politics at all, but just opine on what they see going on.

In some cases, I would include myself as having been "some people". When this all started, I thought Obama would make a good showing. But until things really got rolling, I didn't think he stood a chance against Hillary - or the other more experienced candidates, like Biden and Richardson. And I always envisioned that if it came down to two left standing, they would be Hillary and Edwards.

This piece had one purpose: to remind all of us how things during this primary have shifted and changed, how far Obama has come, and the fact that the "some people" who are now saying he can't win the GE are many of the same people who never saw him lasting this long, no less becoming the nominee.

Those are the "some people" who have been proven wrong by the facts - much to the surprise of many, and to the delight of those of us who are now looking forward to an Obama presidency.

[ElboRuum]

122. Hrm...

Welcome to DU? :shrug:

[Deep13]

97. Lord, hear our prayer.

Do we stand or kneel now? I can never remember. :eyes:

[berni_mccoy]

99. NICELY done! K&R!

:kick:

[democrank]

100. Some people said

that a vote to assist Junior Bush with his invasion of Iraq didn`t matter. They were ever so wrong.

[Tatiana]

103. Some people have said a lot of things, haven't they?

It's not always easy to support the one that everyone appears to be against.

But everytime they try to bury Obama, he digs deep and manages to impress me even more.

He's a better candidate as a result of all this and I think we'll consequently get a better President.

Some people say, indeed...

[Duder]

107. Well said and I agree but...

For some reason now I've got that Randy Newman "Short People" tune in my head. :)

[NanceGreggs]

108. HEY! Is that a PERSONAL DIG?!?

I'm only five feet tall ...

[Duder]

109. LOL, no not at all

You don't write tall tales. :)

More of a personal dig on me for that silly song popping into my head.

[NanceGreggs]

110. Hey, you could get worse songs stuck in your head ...

... like "Honey", or "Felice Navidad"!!!

[Duder]

112. Okay from now on...

...when I read NanceGreggs I'll be sure to turn on my mp3 and wear my earphones.

I'm also probably the only one that sings "Obama!" along with Hips Don't Lie.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24ru3Wn8aZA

[akbacchus_BC]

121. Nance, you may be five feet tall, but gosh your posts are 100 feet tall.

What an eloquent post and you nailed it as always. Am a huge admirer of yours from the time I started lurking here. You are so quick with your comebacks, the three cccs, it is unbelievable. Are you sure you are not Obama? Just kidding!

K&R

[NanceGreggs]

123. Thank you SO much!

:blush:

[Roxy66]

113. Yes we can!!!

[Imagevision]

120. Some people said (my favorite) was he has no experience...?

[mrbluto]

124. Some people like Obama.

Am I now at liberty to construct a bunch of straw men, mischaracterize the positions of people who disagree with me (fellow democrats evil doers people) in indefensible ways, knock them down rhetorically....

...and then consider the effort anything other than transparent demagoguery? a useful victory?

...and then ignore practical concerns regarding the general election crow about it like I've actually proved a point?

While you think about that let's all try that "Some People" technique - it seems handy. Swear I've seen it before.

Some people write only out of some pathalogical need for the ego boost.

Not saying anyone in particular, just some people.

Hey I like this!

Now I know where I've seen it before! It's just like Faux News!

Let's try this:

Some people drink their own bathwater.

See? No one can yell at me because it can't be proved wrong. I'm sure that somewhere there are people who do that.

Wow! Thanks for introducing us to this new rhetorical device Nance!

Nothing helps ensure a useful, civil discussion like divisive vague unsourced accusations a new rhetorical tactic!

I'm surprised you can maintain your self-respect as a writer sure we're all that much better off now.

[NanceGreggs]

126. The "some people" herein ...

... are not "people who disagree with me" (Please see my post at #106.)

"Some people write only out of some pathalogical (sic) need for the ego boost? My self-respect as a writer?"

I'm a regular poster on a message board - I've never held myself out as a "writer". As for an ego-boost, I actually have a life and a career outside of DU - I don't come here for an ego-boost any more than anyone else here does. (Ooops, sorry! Is that why you're here?)

[mrbluto]

138. OK - You're not a writer.

I'll admit that sometimes it seems you just whack away randomly at your keyboard.

I notice you don't even acknowledge my essential point which is your use of the "Some people" tactic.

Ever read any Orwell? If you have then you understand that when you accept their language then you are half way (perhaps more than halfway) to thinking like they do.

I'm basically pointing out that the way you approach this stuff is a sign that we're a hop, skip and a jump from Newspeak, The Two Minute Hate, Memoryholes, etc., and that you're gonna have no leg to stand on when we're suddenly at war again with our former ally Oceana.

BTW - thanks for making sure to point out my spelling mistake - that shows real class.

[NanceGreggs]

141. Well, if you think I "whack away randomly" ...

... there's a simple solution to avoid that. Put me on ignore, and/or don't read my "random whackings."

I had no idea that the words "some" and "people" had been copyrighted and were no longer available for use in general conversation.

I promise to check with my lawyer about royalty payments due to the copyright holder before putting those two words together in a sentence in future.

[mrbluto]

143. Oh - you got me!

Because that's exactly what I was getting at, that you're engaging in some sort of copyright infringement.

...

I shudder to think what your actual opinion of people on this board is considering the lame dodge you just attempted.

Let me make it clearer: I think your use of the "some people" tactic is damaging and, while not making you a republican or troll, makes you as damaging, and just as culpable as a Limbaugh.

Will I put you on ignore? No.

At this point I have to keep an eye you so I can anticipate crystal nacht.

[NanceGreggs]

148. Yes, I have always been "as culpable as Limbaugh" ...

... with my postings on this site.

I'm sure everyone here is heaving a collective sigh of relief knowing you're keeping an eye on me, because I am so damaging to the website and the party.

Actually, I think it is your duty to post a thread about the danger I pose here - lest the naive be taken in by my wily ways.

[mrbluto]

150. As culpable - but not as effective.

So it is about ego boost.

You flatter yourself. (who could have predicted that?) And for damn sure you're not so "wily", rather the opposite judging from your responses.

You've gone through nearly every gadget on that rhetorical swiss army knife of yours and I'm unimpressed by anything except how weak your dodges are.

I'm sure it would thrill you to no end to have me post a thread about you, possibly because it would be a violation of the rules and get me tombstoned, but not least because it would be that much more attention.

When I say I'll keep an eye on you it's more akin to keeping an eye on the canary whilst in a coal mine.

I actually could serve the same purpose.

When you start reading "MrBluto" responses fawning over your posts you can be sure we'll all be living in some dystopic political situation. That or I've been replaced by some sockpuppet who knows where his bread gets buttered in a neo-fascist regime.

You want credibility? You want attention?

Engage in a serious dialog with me.

My final paper for the semester is due in two weeks. Name a subject of concern to the democratic party, or the country, or the world at large. I'm game in two weeks.

It's possible we could see eye-to-eye and be civil - I'll do my best.

Others might find it entertaining.

We all might learn something.

It could be the beginning of hammering out that Unity we'll need, not just to have Obama (or whoever) win, but to ensure we have a party with all it's strength.

I think we're going to need it.

[NanceGreggs]

154. Surely ... you ... jest ...

The times you have posted on my threads, you have launched into diatribes about - about what? That's the thing. Engage in conversation with you? I honestly don't know what you're saying half the time. While accusing me of 'randomly banging a keyboard', you have a penchant for throwing random phrases around that, quite frankly, lack any substance or coherence.

You obviously didn't even understand what the OP was about. That could be attributed to my poor writing skills - except for the fact that everyone else here 'got it'. So maybe it's just you?

However, I do blame myself. After all, I broke my own rule and responded to you in the first place - something I promised myself I would never do again after your last incoherent screed on one of my threads a few months ago. That won't happen again.

If you believe I am akin to Limbaugh, or am being detrimental to the party or this website in any way, please feel free to use the 'alert' feature. You can then make your case to the mods/admins - I'm sure they'll enjoy hearing from you on the subject.

You are certainly free to respond yet again - however, I won't be reading it. It will just big a large blank space ...

[mrbluto]

155. How could I guess?

What do I offer?

I offer to be civil and constructive.

I offer you the choice of subject.

I presume that Obama will be the nominee and vow to work for party unity versus the Republicans.

I didn't ask for a debate, i.e., a chance to "defeat" you - I asked for engagement in dialog.

In short what do I offer?

I offer an olive branch.

But that's not enough, is it?

I think that's what frightens people about some Obama supporters.

It seems that not only do the rest of us have to decide Obama is good, no - we must declare Obama perfect!

That doesn't seem very democratic and I say let's just talk, maybe we can understand each other a bit better and hope we'll find out that that isn't what is being asked.

I offer a chance to engage a critic on your terms and come to some accord.

Essentially an olive branch, basically a chance for peace.

You state you're not even entertaining the possibility of taking it.

You call me incoherent, yet don't bother with even a quote. If my posts lack any substance or coherence then how hard could it be to fling it back in my face? Were you sparing my feelings?

You explicitly state you're probably never going to listen to me again, that you somehow compromised to listen to me in the first place.

Considering that last bit can you blame me for being a wee bit inflammatory in order to break through the "Let it sink" wall?

Look I could continue to be provocative and make comments like "When vague accusations are cast Nance bothers to deny ego boost is a factor, but not whether she drinks her own bathwater - what does that suggest?". (it doesn't suggest you drink your bathwater by-the-way.)

Probably not a productive line of inquiry - can we agree on that?

Look - my offer still stands.

The longer you decline it is that little bit less of a chance for the current rifts to be closed. Rifts the party needs healed.

Is this something you're positive you should slam the door on?

What does it say about the prospects for "Unity"?

What would Obama do?

Alas - others will have to answer.

Because you're not reading this, are you?

[mrbluto]

139. Also - If the shoe fits....

...you still didn't have to wear it, rather than address the substance of my post.

[NanceGreggs]

142. My mistake ...

... I hadn't realized that your post had any substance.

[mrbluto]

145. Heh.

That was actually satisfying to see you post.

Now that you're down to junior school banter maybe we can break past that and get somewhere.

This is sort of like text based regression therapy for you, isn't it?

[mrbluto]

146. Nevermind.

Just got paged - we'll have to pick this up aat another time.

[DaDooRonRon]

151. Please please please take mrbluto up on his "debate" offer

I want a ringside seat.

Judging by what he has said so far, and judging by your lame attempts at rebuttal (see, life's a bitch when you can't post Candyland stories all day) it should be no contest.

Wow, a real political debate on a message board, instead of ad infinitum fluffy-towel posts about how "special" we all are because weren't not like "them." That would be something around here, wouldn't it?

If you decide to go for it, learn these words really well:

No mas. No mas.

You'll need them.

[mrbluto]

157. Too bad.

She vowed to ignore me.

I guess I won't be getting a response.

[Lilith Velkor]

133. Bwahahahahahahaha!

Nice.

[mrbluto]

140. Now watch me be allowed to sink.

To some there are points that are just too much trouble to even think about.

Some people "let them sink".

Now watch them let me sink.

We can only hope that won't be the operating principle of an Obama administration.

[Lilith Velkor]

144. You, me, and half the party

It's not like they need our votes or anything.

[EstimatedProphet]

158. mrbluto, I'd love to shake your hand and buy you a cup of coffee.

:thumbsup:

[Tesha]

152. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours. (NT)

[Cha]

156. Against All Odds..

Thank you, Nance, for the interesting summary of what some people said couldn't be done but what so many people were Hoping for.

[Darth_Kitten]

159. fresh-faced humble man? LOL

oh. my. God.

Come ON!

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

161. Damn straight!