Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

For those who say they won't vote for Hillary in the GE: The Supreme Court

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:48 PM
Original message
For those who say they won't vote for Hillary in the GE: The Supreme Court
It is absolutely absurd for any liberal to say that they will not vote for the Democratic nominee if Hillary is nominated as the candidate of the Democratic Party for the general election.

Why?

Reason #1:
Hillary is a liberal.

She is more liberal than her husband and is just as liberal as Barack Obama, no matter what the netroots tells us.

Reason #2:
There are possibly 3 Supreme Court seats opening within the next 4 years: Ruth Bader Ginsberg, John Paul Stevens and David Souter.

What do all three of these justices have in common? They all represent the liberal side of the court. If all three of them leave during a Republican administration, then their successors will likely be appointed by a conservative. Since the Court is already leaning conservative, and it already has 4 conservative members, adding 3 more conservative justices will tip the court to the right for a couple of decades. Just imagine the Warren Court... but flipped to the right. This should be a nightmare to anybody who values women's rights, Roe vs. Wade, gay rights, etc.

Reason #3:
We do not want more Samuel Alitos on the court.



Justice Alito is Bush's most recent Supreme Court nominee. In his short two years on the Court, he has already set back many liberal causes. Just a few example:



•Upheld an unconditional ban on a midterm abortion procedure that Congress called "partial birth." The decision abandoned the view of a 2000 case that such a ban was unconstitutional without an exception for when a physician believes it's best for the mother's health.

• Limited the reach of a 1969 case that said students do not "shed their constitutional rights … at the schoolhouse gate," by allowing principals and teachers to discipline students for messages that undercut anti-drug policies.

• Struck down programs in Louisville and Seattle that used students' race as a factor in school placement to build diversity across a district. The majority narrowly interpreted the breadth of a 2003 case endorsing the use of race in higher education admissions for campus diversity.


This is one of the hallmarks of the Roberts Court. John Roberts is, of course, Bush's other Supreme Court nominee. All 4 liberals dissented in Louisville and Seattle racial integration cases, but we simply did not have enough liberals on the court to get a majority. Justice Breyer, a member of the liberal part of the court, famously stated the following about Louisville racial integration case, entitled Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1:

"It is not often in the law that so few have so quickly changed so much," Breyer said.


He was, of course, referring to Samuel Alito and John Roberts, Bush's two appointees.


Reason 4:

Hillary's husband appointed two liberal members of the court

You can lambast Bill all you want for his transgressions in office, but one of his lasting legacies are his two great liberal Supreme Court nominees. Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer vote reliably with the liberal wing of the Supreme Court.

Reason 5:

There are several very good liberal justices that are in the running for a nomination if a Democratic president is elected.

Meet Harold Koh:

Harold Hongju Koh is Dean of Yale Law School and Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law.

He began teaching at Yale Law School in 1985 and has served since 2004 as its fifteenth Dean. From 1998 to 2001, he served as Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. Before joining Yale, he practiced law at Covington and Burling and at the Office of Legal Counsel at the Department of Justice.

Dean Koh is a leading expert on international law and a prominent advocate of human and civil rights. He has argued before the United States Supreme Court and testified before the U.S. Congress more than twenty times.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Hongju_Koh
Koh has testified before the U.S. Congress more than a dozen times. In January 2005, Dean Koh, along with Franklin Pierce Law Center dean John Hutson, testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee in opposition to the appointment of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general of the United States, because of his alleged role in attempting to provide legal guidance to the U.S. military justifying abusive interrogation practices, including that the War on Terror "renders obsolete" and "renders quaint" aspects of the Geneva Conventions.


He is also extremely passionate about gay and abortion rights.

Meet Elena Kegan:

http://ms-jd.org/dean-elena-kagan-harvard-law-school
Kagan came to Harvard Law School as a visiting professor in 1999 and became Professor of Law in 2001. While on the faculty, Kagan has taught administrative law, constitutional law, civil procedure, and a seminar on the law surrounding the presidency.

From 1995 to 1999, Kagan served in the White House, first as Associate Counsel to the President (1995-96) and then as Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and Deputy Director of the Domestic Policy Council (1997-99). In those positions she played a key role in the executive branch’s formulation, advocacy, and implementation of law and policy in areas ranging from education to crime to public health.

A leading scholar of administrative law, Kagan’s recent work focuses on the role of the President of the United States in formulating and influencing federal administrative and regulatory law. Her 2001 Harvard Law Review article, “Presidential Administration,” was honored as the year’s top scholarly article by the American Bar Association’s Section on Administrative Law and Regulatory Practice, and is being developed into a book to be published by Harvard University Press. Kagan has also written on a range of First Amendment issues, including the role of governmental motive in First Amendment doctrine, and the interplay of libel law and the First Amendment. Her works in progress include a new casebook on administrative law.

Kagan launched her scholarly career at the University of Chicago Law School, where she became an assistant professor in 1991 and a tenured professor of law in 1995. In 1993, Kagan received the graduating students’ award for teaching excellence.

She is an avid supporter of gay and abortion rights also.

With all of this at stake, why would any Obamabots decide to sit out if Hillary was the Democratic nominee? :crazy: :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. She's going to lose us Congress
She will have to nominate moderate to right wing justices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. We will not lose Congress over the next 4 years regardless of whom the nominee is. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. We did the last time a Clinton was in office
And that one was probably better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yet Bill still got 2 liberal justices appointed. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Uh, he was president.
WHy is that an accomplishment?

Bush got two conservatives appointed and he is a moron.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Because some Supreme Court Justices change over time.
Eisenhower wanted to nominate a conservative, instead he got one of the most liberal justices in history, Earl Warren. Ronald Reagan wanted a conservative, but instead he got a moderate in Sandra Day O'Connor.

Both Ginsburg and Breyer vote reliably in the liberal wing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Not sure where you are going with this.
The Clinton's have a proven track record of short coat-tails. Their longstanding triangulation strategies often put them at odds with the very people they are supposedly in the same party with.

Given a party revolution and HUGE disenfranchisement of African American voters and younger voters, there is a much better chance of significant down ticket losses if Hillary is the nominee, and further losses in 2010 given her typical political strategies.

Either candidate can pick liberal justices, so not sure the point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yes, either candidate can pick liberal justices.
But if you don't have the support of half your party, the candidate isn't getting elected.

And What the heck to coat-tails have to do with Supreme Court Justices?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. They have a TON to do with Congress people
who approve or deny Supreme Court Justices.

And all of the scads of lawmaking that rarely gets in front of the SCOTUS.

You think Hillary is going to be able to pass her Healthcare ideas through a Repub Congress? She couldn't get it through a Dem Congress the first time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
91. The other two "liberal" justices were appointed by Republicans
Stevens was appointed by Ford.
Souter was appointed by Bush.

And all of them have sold out to corporations:

"Conrad (of the US Chamber of Commerce) was in an understandably cheerful mood. Though the current Supreme Court has a well-earned reputation for divisiveness, it has been surprisingly united in cases affecting business interests. Of the 30 business cases last term, 22 were decided unanimously, or with only one or two dissenting votes. Conrad said she was especially pleased that several of the most important decisions were written by liberal justices, speaking for liberal and conservative colleagues alike.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16supreme-t.html

When it comes to Wall Street vs. the interests of the working American, this entire court sold out a long time ago.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. As if that wasn't because of trends that began three decades prior...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. The blacks will stay home, the sexists and Clinton-haters will turn out.
We will end up with a Repug majority again. Besides, a lot of people have a tendency to switch to R for Congress when they go D for POTUS--they have a weird sense of wanting balance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The AA community will not stay home. That is only your wishful thinking speaking.
It has no basis in any fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Good thing for us, the situation is entirely hypothetical anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Really?
Superdelegates throw out the first legitimately elected African American candidate for President and you think they will simply fall in line?

And you guys say Obama is naive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Nobody is "throwing out" Obama.
He hasn't won anything yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Her only path to nomination is to throw out the pledged delegate vote which she has lost
You know this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. She hasn't lost the pledged delegate vote.
She hasn't won it, but neither has Obama. Neither will reach 2024 pledged delegates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. He will have the most.
And pledged delegates was the yardstick agreed upon at the beginning of the contest.

SDs going against that will have massive fallout.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:16 PM
Original message
Here are the facts:
And pledged delegates was the yardstick agreed upon at the beginning of the contest.

The only pledged delegate yardstick agreed up at the beginning of the contest was 2024 delegates. Neither candidate will reach that mark.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
51. Again, you are misleading
2024.5 is the curernt number to have half of ALL delegates, both pledged and unpledged.

A candidate achieves a majority of pledged delegates at 1627.

Obama WILL achieve that number on May 20. There is no stopping that. On May 20, Obama will ahve won on pledged delegates.

Super Delegates will take that into account as they make their decisions. By the end of that week, Obama will have more than 2024.5 total delegates counting super delegates who have endorsed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. False.
You are not entitled to the nomination if you win 50%+1 of the pledged delegates. Nowhere in the rule book does it say anything about that.

There is no other metric that is used other than 2024 pledged delegates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Bullshit
IT's called the "Pelosi Club" for a reason. A number of Super delegates, including at least one who has pledged to Hillary, have declared they WILL endorse whomsoever has the most pledged delegates.

At 1627 pledged delegates, a candidate will have achieved the majority of pledged delegates ergo that candidate has the most pledged delegates at that point.

When that happens, the Super Delegates who are members of the "Pelosi Club" will flock to Obama.

That number is important because when Obama has 1627 pledged delegates, he will exceed 2024.5 with super delegates within a matter of days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. And there is nothing anywhere in the rule book about Popular Vote either
And yet it gets touted all the time by her camp.

Pledged Delegates is the over-riding yard stick. Neither candidate will reach 2024, so the candidate with the most wins that vote. How can anyone even remotely present any logic otherwise?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Obama is going to finish this with a sizable lead in pledged delegates.
For the SD's to overturn this they are going to need a very strong case for doing so. If they do not have an extremely strong case for doing this, they won't, because doing so would antagonize the party's voters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. That's the standard for pledged AND unpledged.
The number where one candidate wins the pledged delegates is 1627. That is one more than half the pledged delegates.

Obama will reach that number on May 20. Nothing will stop that fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
72. Exactly. If they did affirmative action is gone forever
The notion that AA's will stay at home because they voted 90% for a candidate of their group is as inaccurate as saying Mormons will stay at home because they voted 90% for a candidate of their group and because he lost they will sit it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Your logic leaves out mass anger at the Clinton's race-baiting
because you are blinded to it by your loyalty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. So Obama's policies don't matter to them according to you?
Having Obama in the Oval Office is more important than his policies, including affirmative action? As a "protest" for Obama losing they would throw away everything Obama stands for?

Richardson lost. Will Latinos stay home? Romney lost. Does that mean Utah will go Democratic now? If Clinton loses does that mean women will stay home? Obama the "uniter" is introducing the most divisive thing to our party: tribal politics. We can't function as a majority party if we act as a bunch of tribes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. What? So Obama is about Obama and not any issues?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
87. Don't be too sure.
Throwing Obama under a bus and using respectable men like Wright and Farrakhan to destroy him won't bode well for Hillary. You can't just use any form of attack then act like everything will be ok as soon as she's nominated. Wishful thinking is acting like people overlook stuff like that. This coming from an African American.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. The Blacks?
Are they all like chained together as one or something?

The blacks... How friggin stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. While I see your point
when a candidate is getting 90+% support from a group, then yeah, they are kinda in lockstep at the moment.

There WILL be a strong fallout if the SDs try this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. Yup. THE Blacks. Face them.
THE less Democratic-party-loyal blacks who can decide any presidential race by turning out or not. They exist no matter how hard you want to wish them away. They do not represent all black people, but their existence is a political reality and you are out of your mind if you think they will turn out for Hillary after all of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. With Hillary in office 2010 could make 1994 look like a picnic
Edited on Sun May-04-08 08:55 PM by Upton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. Uh-huh
When she pitches Dean out a window and installs a McAuliffe-like hack, just watch how fast Dem fortunes can be trimmed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. wrong.... with HRC on the top of the ticket, the repubs will come out in droves!
I won't vote for HRC, but I will vote for down ticket dems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
63. Wow. What naivete!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. why? loyalty to the person is more important than to the party and nation? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. What are you talking about???
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hillary isn't going to be involved in the GE - so this isn't something
which you need to concern yourself about. You should be working the HIllary voters on this one - the SCOTUS is very important to the advancement of womens issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. And, of course,
only women support Senator Clinton...and only for "women's issues".

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. I agree with your points, but think you're missing a point.
I do not expect to support Hillary in the general election because she has a snowball's chance of getting the nomination.

But if she does I will reluctantly support her--for the reasons you have argued.


Are you prepared to support Obama for those same reasons?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes I am, and any liberal should do the same. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. I voted Obama in my Primary. But I'd vote for any Dem. in the GE.
Would devout Hillary supporters do the same for Obama?

The Republican Party is hoping for a divided Democratic Party. The in-fighting only plays into their hands and benefits them.

The ONLY sure victory in November is a unified ticket-

Hillary/Obama or Obama/Hillary

I don't give a damn who it is, we must unseat these fascist bastards from power. Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't care
I said it I DO NOT CARE


You arent going to hold that one on me. If the democratic party allows Clinton to pull the crap and win despite it they will not have my support in the GE.

Perhaps SC going conservative and important rulings being reversed would get the party back on the good if they still have not gotten past the machine crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. So, you're saying elect Hillary so she can appoint corporatists to the SCOTUS?
:wtf: :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'll tell you sometthing, NJ
If she wins this thing (and thats a big if), I'll vote for her. In a NYC second!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Good for you.
I'll do the same if Obama is the nominee. :hi: :hi:

The most important thing is getting a Democratic into office. I've said that along. I have some disagreements on which Democrat can win the Presidential election, but I'll still vote for either nominee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Damn, NJ
I knew you were the man!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good sentiment. Now tell it to the HiIllary supporters claiming they'll vote for McCain as well.
Last poll I saw had 1 in 4 of her supporters saying that. Please point out to them how stupid and dangerous their thinking is to the rest of the country and the world.

Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I have made that very clear to many Hillary supporters.
I will support the Democratic nominee regardless of who it is. I just think Hillary has a chance to win the White House while Obama doesn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Ok, cool.
I honestly think both will beat McCain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. If Hill steals this election
It won't matter.......I will no longer have a party. At that point I give a shit about the Supreme Court. There is only so much I will take.
I believe in Democracy. If she strong arms some Democratic commitee and the nom gets handed over to her then this is no longer the United States of America. I have put up with this shit from the Republicans. I will not bend over and get fucked by the Democrats TOO!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Keep in mind that everyone who may vote Democratic does not
pay that much attention to who is on the SC. Your argument may be good here, but some Obama people are involved this year only because of him, and some Clinton people are involved only because of her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. That is true, but any liberal should care about the Supreme Court, IMO. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. I will
unless the nuclear option is exercised.

IF that's how she wins the nomination, then it's clear who the lesser of the two evils would be, and it's not somebody willing to nuke their own party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. There is a single instance where I would rebut
Reason #1: You bet, unless the nuclear option is exercised.

Reason #2: No problem, unless the nuclear option is exercised.

Reason #3: I'm with you all the way, unless the nuclear option is exercised.

Reason #4: Can't deny that, unless the nuclear option is exercised.

Reason #5: Gotta agree, unless the nuclear option is exercised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hawaii Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. I've harped on this many times, for the sake of the Supreme Court,
how on earth could any Democrat stay home or vote for McBush if their candiate is not the nominee....I'm for Obama, but I will donate to & vote for Clinton if she's the nominee without question....

We are in deep, deep shit if John McBush replaces Ginsburg, or Stevens with some far right crackpot justice...The court could be lost for decades....

Jesus Fucking Christ people, vote for the Democrat (remember, BOTH Clinton & Obama voted NO on the confirmations of Roberts & Ailito - they can both be trusted on judges & justices) in November, the Supreme Court is at stake!......


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. Now the unity thread?
Edited on Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM by Jake3463
After the fuck them thread earlier today?

You lost some credibility after you dismissed our concerns over the nuclear option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. many will not vote for hillary. not after all shes done. - nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. goletian
If you think like that, why are you on DU? This is a spirited contest. May the best win. (obama)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
81. im on du because im a dem. hillary is the antidem. - nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
34. There's no assurance Hillary would nominate liberals to the SC
she lies about everything else, with her political expediency rules the day. To put it bluntly, I don't trust her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Her husband appointed liberals, why wouldn't she? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. As has previously been pointed out, her husband lost us Congress too
and caved to the Republicans on a multitude of issues. This time, I want a real Democrat in the WH and that's Barack Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. Yes, which makes it all the more baffling why she blames Obama for FL and MI.
Edited on Sun May-04-08 09:20 PM by Hansel
It's kind of a stupid gamble, isn't it, for a someone who professes to care so much about women's issues. Why would she try to make it more difficult for him when he really has nothing to do with what happened? This is another reason why I don't support her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Yes, both candidates agreed on the rules - and it's funny,
A few weeks back there was a post - something to the effect that if the roles were reversed and Obama had more "votes" in Florida and Clinton's name had not appeared on the MI ballot - wouldn't Obama be saying the votes should be counted? - One of those hypotheticals we see so much here.

But the telling hypothetical in this case of turned tables would be this: If Clinton had less "votes" in FL and MI, wouldn't she then (conveniently) remember that the rules at the outset were that FL and MI votes were not to be included in the delegate assignment?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CindyKay Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. No
You see Obama has Integrity & Would seek some Resolution BUT Hil-LIAR-Y Is also expecting MI. to be seated which is nothing less than CHEATING , Convenient for Her that She Was The Only One NOT to Remove Her Name. She Agreed to the Rules yet when She saw that She would Need Them she Found Tons Of Concern For The Voters & started Whining. I could go on for hours about the Many Reasons WHY She will Lose to McInsane but I will Spare Myself the Dread of having to think about that Lunatic McInsane in Office & I won't do that to Myself!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
46. With all of this at stake you "best" take a look at Obama.
She will not have won this nomination but will have taken it from Obama. Thus, she will not be electable. First one needs to win the nomination. When Obama is not on the ballot she will have taken this out of his hands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Huge Problem With Your OP.
All you did is list a bunch of solid logical reasons why we should vote for the Dem. Key word: Reasons. Reasons... Reasoning. You're trying to reason with a bunch of people who have no critical thinking ability. You shoulda just posted a thread with a bunch of pictures of shiny things. They probably like really shiny things lol.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
50. Blackmail attempt:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CindyKay Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
60. I am an Independent & I Just Cannot Do It
Edited on Sun May-04-08 10:24 PM by CindyKay
It will make Me Violently Ill , I will be Vomiting For Weeks . Hell I Would Rather stick Knives in My Eyes or Shoot Myself!

I Absolutely Refuse To Vote For This Arrogant Elitist Thieving Liar & I am not allowed to tell You what I really think about McInsane so I will be staying Home Thank You !

Call Me Names , Say What You Want , I Do Not Care , It Will Not Happen !




Obama / Anyone But Hil-LIAR-Y 08


Ok , Ok , I was distraught for a moment but I do Understand the Importance of Not Allowing Another Nut Job into the WH & I Guess Hil-LIAR-Y ( Sorry ,Forgive Me BUT I can't Help Myself )is better than THEM so I Solemnly Swear To Vote For HER even if She manages to Steal the Nomination so that We are not Harnessed with Our Friend McINSANE !!!:sarcasm: :pals:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. Well the DNC needs to do something about Florida pretty quick, as many Floridians are so mad....
they say they might not even go to vote, especially not for Obama - - and there is this anti-gay marriage on the ballot that will make the Republicans flood the polls.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CindyKay Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Oh , I Know
I heard some talk on tv but I live in Florida & I know tons that stayed Home because We were told Our vote Didn't Count. Again I am an Independent BUT Our Primaries were Closed & We Can't Vote. Read My Post again I made an Update. Kind of a joke .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. Why exactly? Clinton herself signed off on sanctioning FL and MI.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
62. First of all, this is moot - if it were McCain vs. Clinton, McCain would win.
Clinton has too much baggage and the GOP has all sorts of dirt on her - why do you think they are trying so hard to get her the nomination.

Secondly, we're supposed to believe that "Hillary is a liberal. She is more liberal than her husband and is just as liberal as Barack Obama, no matter what the netroots tells us." You have nothing to back up your assertion - unlike the "netroots" who do have proof she's not liberal.

Thirdly, you're trying to win over Obama supporters by calling us Obamabots? Yeah, that's clever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
66. Someone who'll obliterate tens of millions of men, women and children isn't to be trusted...
... with naming Supreme Court Justices.

While I'll vote for that evil person if necessary, I'll no longer criticize those who won't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CindyKay Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Thank You
I Find Myself in the Very Same Situation!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. She's given me no reason to believe that she'd appoint Liberal Judges.
She's running a republican/neo-con Campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
77. Extremely weak argument
The problem I find with this is that Hillary has shown no aversion to running as hard and fast to the extreme right as she possibly can. This campaign is a perfect example. She is out-Roving Rove.

To base your whole argument for voting for her on the unsupported assumption that she will suddenly throw herself into reverse and start being liberal is preposterous.

Hillary is the consummate opportunist and will throw us -- and you -- to the wolves if it suits her purposes of the moment. If this campaign has shown anything, it's that she can't be trusted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Additionally: This amounts to extorting a Clinton vote out of us, with the SCOTUS as hostages...
... Just like GW is holding the troops hostage in Iraq, extorting money from Congress with them.

I refuse to be extorted any longer to Clinton. She's not getting my vote no matter what. I'll deal with the consequences, but at least I won't be a party to *that* wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #80
85. oh god lord. the OP has so much power over you now? Talk about spin. Get a grip!!
Edited on Mon May-05-08 10:01 AM by rodeodance
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
79. Hillary is Republican. Republican Lite at BEST. NO REASON to believe she won't...
...appoint conservatives, strict constructionists, and/or corporatists to the Supreme Court.

FURTHERMORE, the Supreme Court garners ZERO respect for a lot of people ANYWAY since 2001 - the entire court has been politicized and Hillary - judging by her Repub leanings/DLC leadership role is VERY UNLIKELY to change that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
82. I'll agree if 2012 is taken off the damn table,
and to do that Hil has to clean up her act and abide by the process come what may. If she's lobbing grenades and trying to kneecap her opponents while looking forward to future runs for office, then she cares nothing for the supreme court, and as a result neither do I. I refuse to be blackmailed.

I will vote dem downticket, where it is warranted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
83. Hillary is DLC so your post is flawed at Point #1
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
84. You're proselytizing to the wrong crowd; the overwhelming majority of Obama supporters will support
the nominee when its Obama and even in the 1-in-20 chance it's Hillary.

Of greater concern is the number of Hillary supporters who talk about not supporting the ticket when she fails to win the nomination. If you care about the court, you ought to be focusing your message on the appropriate target.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
86. I'm voting for Democratic nominee, not Hillary.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
88. The Supreme Court is already gone.
Did you see their latest ruling?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
89. "We do not want more Samuel Alitos on the court."
Yeah, that scares the hell out of me as well and if the republicans manage it I fear it will damage our country and set us backwards atleast 40 to 60 years in things like civil rights as well.
As for your last comment though with calling Obama supporters "Obamabots" was that really needed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
90. If Some Hillary Wins...

I will vote McCain. And every presidential election there after I will vote republican. You can thank hill-lie-re for that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noisyanimal Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
92. very good point
Judge Stevens is very old. He might die soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC