Republican Catholics bitching about Obama's preacher - snort

[Rosemary2205]

OK, so Jon Stewart is a freakin genius. But now it's in my head. The very RWer's leading the charge on the crucify Obama because "his choice of church is bad" and "why didn't he leave because of the preacher" are members of a church that proved it clearly approves of child molestation when they went out of their way to protect pedophile priest for decades upon decade.

[hokies4ever]

1. Colbert did it too yesterday

Made fun of Hannity and O'Reilly as Catholics who never left their church.

[Rosemary2205]

2. Was it just Colbert or both? Now I'm wondering.

I was pretty tired last night and am now quite frankly unsure. Doesn't matter much really - but just think of how PO'd either one would be if caller after caller after caller today called up to ask them why they are still members of the church that molests children. :)

[hokies4ever]

3. Bill O doesn't like mean callers

I saw a youtube clip a while back where Mr. Loofah abruptly cut off a caller to his radio show just for saying the name Keith Olbermann. It was hilarious, because then he warned the callers that he has their phone numbers and would call the authorities on them.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Up4eEahEt0g

[WillyToad]

64. The biggest mouthed most vile bullies...

...always have the thinnest skin

[mmonk]

4. Interesting. Colbert grew up Catholic in the Carolinas like me.

But he has a point.

[NJmaverick]

5. No question any Catholic attacking Obama for Rev Wright is guily

of major league hypocrisy.

[mmonk]

7. It's not really about religion. It's about faux patriotism and race.

It's all coached from a religious perspective since Wright is a preacher.

[NJmaverick]

67. I agree it's not about religion, it's about gray vs false black and white

Both Rev Wright and the Catholic church are complex. There is a need to overlook the bad, while embracing the good. That's what makes any practicing Catholic who condemns Obama for Wright, a true hypocrit. They want people to over look the child molesting scandal, but they still want to point a finger at Obama and Wright.

[Rosemary2205]

71. Oh I think it's ENTIRELY about race.

There's been a slick little effort since day one of Obama's rise to paint him as one of those "bad" blacks that whites should be very very afraid of.

[zbdent]

45. and probably also because they wouldn't accept that the Earth was NOT the

center of the universe until the early 1990s ...

[Maribelle]

6. Could you please tell me what mocking Catholics has to do with the primaries???????

This should be over in the lounge, where your intolerant ignorance could be taken as a joke.

[casus belli]

8. Kindly take your feigned outrage...

and insert into the orafice of your choice.

[Maribelle]

10. Don't tell me - - - you're an Obama follower, correct?

How on earth did I guess?

[casus belli]

13. Your sense of smell is magnificent....

despite having learned to ignore the smell of BS.

What this has to do with Catholics, my critical-thinking challenged friend, is that for one side or the other to imply that being a parishoner in a church is somehow an endorsement of all of the pastor/priests beliefs is ludicrous. It isn't any more of a stretch than a progressive who has attended a church where the minister, endorses a pro-life view, or one intolerant of gay marriage. It is, for those of us with brain cells, perfectly logical that an intelligent human being would be able to enjoy a pastors words without necessarily endorsing all of their views.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

14. I disagree with many aspects of the Catholic Church.

For me, it is largely cultural. It's also the parish I grew up in, made my first communion in, made my confirmation in, went from Sunday school at age 4 to teaching Sunday school at 18...etc. Also, when we do things like soup kitchens and food drives...who cares?

[westerebus]

20. Catholic vote.

If your candidate does not carry the catholic vote, your candidate will loose the general election. So bashing the folks your candidate needs is not a plan with a positive outcome. IMHO.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. How is it "bashing"??

[westerebus]

90. Catholics endorse child molestation?

If they don't leave their church? I have yet to meet a single catholic who is not ashamed and angry at the cover up, the molestation, the whole ugly corruption. Some did leave the church, more decided to demand change and the removal of the criminals involved. This is not a joke for a lot of decent folks who are catholic.
The next time you see a picture or film clip of Martin-Luther King leading a civil rights march look at the white faces near him. Many wear the collars of catholic priests and the habits of catholic nuns. No one is perfect. Certainly not the church.

[casus belli]

26. Bashing religious affiliation in general is a bad idea.

And "my guy" has been the victim of it for several weeks too long. What's wrong with holding up a mirror and asking you or anyone else to take a good look if you don't see a problem with persecution of an individual for where he chooses to worship.

And for the record, my catholic priest has an Obama sticker on his vehicle, so your assumptions aren't particularly valid.

[kevinbgoode]

62. Yep....McCain's "spiritual adviser" has no problem bashing Catholics

and neither do the Southern Baptists who make up the bulk of the Republican Party "base." But the media, the Right, and the Clinton campaign have no issue with bashing the United Church Of Christ.

The funny thing is that, apparently, the only "religious" affiliation which is given a free pass are the white crazy-ass televangelists who made our Congress and President burn the midnight oil over their obsession with Terri Schiavo.

[casus belli]

65. I can't think about this issue....

without getting completely pissed off at the fact that Pat Robertson could blame 9-11 on retribution by God for homosexuality and yet he gets a far cry less condemnation than a man who sat in a church where someone preached angrily about institutionalized racism and government indifference.

W. T. F. Seriously. I think this country has gone f-ing nuts.

[westerebus]

91. Good for your priest.

Good for you too to have a priest. You do recall the sermon of the beam (splinter) in your brother's eye. How we focus on other's differences and use them as faults to justify our own actions. The same thing rev. wright said in fewer words at his press conference. Or as my Irish mother said: people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
What is valid is yet to be determined in the general election. "Your guy" is not doing all that well with the catholic demographic for a lot of reasons. When faux news dumps gasoline and asks you for a match, what do you do? Give them a road flare? Not good planning.
No one gets elected in this country without the catholic vote. You know that. If the vote splits, and it just might, we get McCain. Which was how Regan got elected to a degree.

[Rosemary2205]

72. Yes indeed.

Well put

[Darth_Kitten]

50. Wow! You are an enlightened, tolerant individual, huh?

:eyes:

As long as nobody insults YOUR religion, life is perfect, eh? :sarcasm:

[casus belli]

60. Take your best shot. I'm hard to offend.

And I'm extremely tolerant of just about everything except bullshit and double standards, particularly when it's coming from people who call themselves "progressives".

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. I'm Catholic. So's Colbert. We both think the

"If you have serious disagreements with your Church you should leave" argument is bogus.

My whole family is Catholic. Comes with the territory of being Hispanic. For us, the Church is highly cultural.

[Maribelle]

11. Colbert is a comedian. Don't take anything he says to support intolerance, unless ...

of course your in the lounge where everything can be taken as a joke.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

12. How is it intolerance?

[casus belli]

19. Satire often speaks to truth...

and Colbert is particularly good at it.

[casus belli]

16. I think that's true for most people.

Unfortunately, the same rules don't apply when it comes to Obama. I've yet to meet anyone who agreed with everything a pastor, priest, etc preached about. In fact, I've heard a few sermons that really rubbed me the wrong way. But, like most things, there are things to be learned from listening to views which don't necessarily coincide with your own. I never thought I'd have to sell the concept to progressives though.

[TheDoorbellRang]

73. Mocking religion has taken center stage in the primary

The hypocrisy was pointed out by Colbert last night. Hannity and O'Reilly -- both practising Catholics -- have been front and center judging Obama for not leaving his church because of Rev. Wright.

If we need to explain the hypocrisy to you, maybe you're at the wrong site.

[Yossariant]

15. Not to confuse Obama worshippers with numbers or complicated demographics,

I know you OW's just want us all to chant about "The fierce urgency of now" and Yes, we can" and "Hope" and "Change" and "Unity"

But you do realize that one in 5 voters in America describe themselves as Roman Catholic?

Since the Obamalade has muddled your mind, I'll do the math and explain to you that that is 20% of all voters.

It is, by far, the largest single religious denomination in the US.

Obama worshippers are fundies --- devoted to Obama above all else.

Keep up the good work.

[TheZug]

17. What? So pointing Catholic hypocrisy about this is off-limits?

[Yossariant]

22. Hypocrisy?

I missed the part where the priests are preaching that child molestation is right and proper UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES --- like Black Liberation Theology and Wright are preaching.

YOU might try to pretend that somebody can worship in a Black Liberation Theology Church for 20 years and pretend he doesn't know what religion he is, but most Americans think Barack Obama is a lying pos.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. Wait...Wright preached that child molestation was right?

"I missed the part where the priests are preaching that child molestation is right and proper UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES --- like Black Liberation Theology and Wright are preaching."

[Yossariant]

25. I could have worded that better.

No, Wright is preaching that racism is right UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Really? Which quotes?

[Yossariant]

51. Black Liberation Theology is based on racism:

"James Cone and Dwight Hopkins are considered the leading theologians of this system of belief, although now there are many scholars who have contributed a great deal to the field.

'Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.'" --- James H. Cone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_theology

"Wright has also said that his religious philosophy is rooted in the tenets of black liberation theology, the life's work of James H. Cone. A professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York, Cone and his philosophy have both informed and inspired Wright."
http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/04/28/obama-wright-theology-oped-cx_hra_0428blackqanda.html

[SemiCharmedQuark]

57. Also from Wikipedia

"Some scholars of black theology have noted that the controversial quotes do not necessarily represent black theology as it is currently practiced or the views of people like Wright who practice it. <11> Cone has responded to the controversy by noting that he was generally writing about white churches that did nothing to oppose slavery and segregation and not about white people as individuals.<8>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#Controversy

[Yossariant]

69. Here's what your # 11 link says about whether Wright espouses Cone's philosophy:

“Whether Jeremiah Wright has read (Black Theology and Black Power) and agrees with it I don’t know,” Nation said.
http://www.newsvirginian.com/wnv/news/local/article/diversified_religion/19035/

Wright gave us the answer in the Forbes article in my previous post.

And in your link #8:
"Wright has said that a basis for Trinity's philosophies is the work of James Cone, who founded the modern black liberation theology movement out of the civil rights struggles of the 1960s. Particularly influential was Cone's 1969 book, 'Black Theology & Black Power.'...

Cone wrote that the United States was a white racist nation and that the white church was the Antichrist for having supported slavery and segregation.

Today, Cone, a professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York, stands by that view, but also makes clear that he doesn't believe that whites individually are the Antichrist.

In an interview, Cone said that when he was asked which church most embodied his message, "I would point to that church first." Cone also said he thought that Wright's successor, the Rev. Otis Moss III, would continue the tradition."
http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1008049.html

[SemiCharmedQuark]

74. *A* basis does not equal *The* basis.

[casus belli]

63. With all due respect, you need to read more.

But seeing as how you've based your opinions about Black Liberation Theology on a wikipedia entry, I can't be at all surprised that you have such a limited grasp of the issue. I think we're done here.

[Yossariant]

70. With all due respect right back, the 'typical white' voter is not even going to bother with wiki.

[casus belli]

32. Wright has never uttered a racist word.

Unless you think bashing the government is bashing white people.

And would you kindly explain why Obama would listen to a preacher denounce white people when Obama is, himself, half-white? Or are you suggesting that he has some secret agenda against the white mother and grandparents who raised him, the white friends he made at the predominantly white schools he attended, or the many white supporters who have helped him create a winning campaign?

[casus belli]

28. No most Americans don't think that.

As evidenced by his lead in all metrics. Your candidate, however, has consistently polled very poorly in that area.

[TheZug]

77. Yes, HYPOCRISY

No priests don't preach that child molestation is right and proper.

They DO, however, preach that abortion is a sin and some have threatened to deny communion and excommunicate pro-choice politicians.

Their views on women are NOT in line with progressive liberal views.

Their views on birth control are NOT in line with progressive liberal views.

AND many church leaders DID engage in a deliberate and systematic coverup of child molestation.

Many liberal Democrats still manage to reconcile those conflicts and remain in the church. That's fine by me. But for them to then go and condemn Obama for not finding a church and preacher who he agrees with 100% is HYPOCRISY, plain and simple.

[TheZug]

78. Many stances of the Catholic church are antithetical to liberal progressivism.

Abortion.

Birth control.

The role of women.

Deliberate and systematic coverup of child molestation by priests.

If you can reconcile your political views with those of your church, fine. But don't get on your high horse and demand that someone else choose a church they agree with 100%.

[Maribelle]

27. flamebait - 'approves of child molestation' is a lie . Using children like this is child abuse too.

That so many on this board are appearing to take such delight in this is disgraceful.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. What does this have to do with the OP?

I don't know one Catholic that agrees with everything the Pope says.

[casus belli]

21. Weird rant, but you sort of proved the OPs point. n/t

[ErinBerin84]

29. Daily Show was good last night.

the "Festival of Wrights!", and then doing camera effects on the Pope with the scary Fox-esque voice overs.

Mike Barnacle (he's a Republican Catholic, right?) was just on Morning Joe (which I'm still not sure why I watch. I think I need a support group to withdraw from the show) talking about Obama's upcoming Meet the Press interview. He said "Tim is going to ask the TOUGH questions! He is going to find out EXACTLY HOW LONG Obama sat in that church for!" While I'm sure that will be an issue, I hope that Tim has other "tough" questions for Obama that aren't, um, stupid. Barnacle also went into the "Obama does not share people's values. They don't agree with John McCain on the issues, but they do with values. People don't know who this Barack Obama guy is. They just think he is new and attractive!" I know that McCain has been in the public eye for a long time, and he is obviously a war hero and everything, but...do most people in the public really know shit about John McCain? Keating Five at the least? John McCain even said in his book that the straight talk express was a pr gimick to get him past the Keating Five scandal. I've never heard anyone on tv bring that up. Of course they would say "Oh, but that's in the past!" Barnacle also said that Obama was detached. So I guess, McCain is an amazing example of someone who "connects with people". Good lord.

[Maribelle]

30. The lie in the OP 'approves of child molestation' is child abuse in of itself.

Using the tragic plight of children as a joke is disgraceful, regardless of your political bias. This thread should be delete.

[Maribelle]

33. Please take your lying child abuse over to the lounge if you think this is a joke.

[casus belli]

37. Hostile Hillary supporter alert.

And she's responding to her own posts...watch out.

[Darth_Kitten]

52. Take up your fight with private messaging....

geez.

[casus belli]

66. Sorry, is this not a public forum?

Or do you just have control issues?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

34. Didn't approve of it, but some tried to cover it up.

Which is just as bad, imho. OP could be worded better, but even if it were worded accurately, the fact is that Church officials did something absolutely disgraceful.

[Maribelle]

36. The number of criminals does not equal the church. Using the tragedies of the children to make

political points is child abuse.

[casus belli]

39. Is using the tragedy of bigotry...

to destroy someone's political career racism?


Meh. I'm not sure you have the capacity to listen to anything other than your own voice. I'm out.

[Maribelle]

42. Two wrongs will never make a right. Don't use that lame excuse.

And by the way, how about if your practice what your preach, hero - - if you can follow a thread.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

44. I specifically said "Church officials"

The Church is officially led by the pope who was aware of the situation. Our leader was aware and did nothing. *That* is child abuse.

[Maribelle]

48. Exactly when did "our leader" become "our leader" and what was his job before?

Perhaps you need to put some things in proper perspective before you go blaming the current Pope, no?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

54. The current pope argued that it was a "manufactured scandal" before he was pope.

This was why his meeting with the abuse victims during his visit was such a big deal.

[Rosemary2205]

75. Ratzinger is the brains behind protecting pedophile priests.

If Obama is going to be told he's expected to bolt from a church because one leader inside the whole of the church espouses a belief Obama might disagree with, then those who expect him to do so must be held to the same standard. There are Catholic RW pundits (and Hillary supporters) who are absolutely hammering Obama for choosing to consider the whole of the man (Wright) and the whole of his church before making a decision to retain a relationship there or not. Yet they do the exact same with the Catholic Church.

No one, absolutely no one is "scoring political points" on the back of molested children. The "political points" if that's what you want to call them, are on the absolute hypocrisy of RW whackjobs and Hillary supporters by holding themselves to one standard and Obama to another.

[casus belli]

35. It's not a joke.

The point is, and I'll say it slowly so you get it this time: where one chooses to worship does not, in and of itself, constitute an endorsement of the pastor/priest/preacher/ministers beliefs. If Reverend Wright spoke that way all the time, he'd have no church and no parishoners.

[Maribelle]

38. The Catholic Church does not approve of child molestation.

Using the tragedies of the children to make political points is child abuse.

[casus belli]

40. Your logic is flawed.

I think we're done here.

Have a nice day.

[Renaissance Man]

41. Seriously?

Why aren't these same Republican Catholic parishioners bitching about John Hagee referring to the Catholic Church as the Great Whore?

[casus belli]

43. Different rules...

you sound surprised. Did you not get the memo? Obama isn't allowed to be human and have relationships with flawed people.

[Renaissance Man]

46. Surprised?

Nah. Black male here. I've grown accustomed to double standards.

Black male expresses himself poignantly and assertively, and it's anger, rage or going off the deep end or suffering from some mental abnormality.

White male expresses himself in the same way and he's being critical.

[casus belli]

53. Unfortunately true.

Everytime I have listened to Wright's speeches, I have heard a lot of anger towards the government and institutionalized racism, what I haven't heard is any racism. Yet his critics have labelled him racist. Latent racism is far more common than overt displays these days. I'm just surprised to see progressives not only NOT recognizing it in the double standard that has been layed out for Obama, but encouraging it in some cases as well.

[Renaissance Man]

55. Right

It's usually the Hillary supporters, though. After these primaries and the general election, a lot is going to be written about the nefarious tactics used by both the right wing, the MSM and the Clinton campaign with regard to this subject matter.

[Darth_Kitten]

47. Clearly approves of child molestation?

This is a bit of an anti-catholic rant?

[Rosemary2205]

89. A bit, yes. - a very small bit.

The point of the post was to point out Stewart and Colbert's genius in calling attention to the hypocrisy of some hammering at Obama over Wright. I didn't really intend the line you quoted to be earthshattering since I really assumed that would just be a given. Clearly, Ratzinger in particular has no problem at all with priest molesting kids. Given how easy it is to learn he was the brains and force behind protecting pedophile priests from law, I just assumed everyone knew it. I have no problem with Catholics choosing to continue to be Catholic in spite being horrified their own Pope would choose to do such a thing. The Catholic tradition is diverse and people stay in it for many reasons - the Pope himself is often the least of those reasons.

I would expect the same holds true for Obama and his church. He is obviously there for many reasons, the top man is likely the least of those reasons. Any Catholic hammering at Obama for doing the same thing they are doing is just assinine.

[Vinca]

49. I was thinking about that very thing the other day.

After all the "why didn't Obama leave the church" questions, I wondered why Catholics didn't pick up and leave. Sodomizing a little kid is a whole lot worse than words.

[Yossariant]

56. Racism is preached as a virtue to kids from the pulpit in Wright's church..

Sodomizing kids is not preached as a virtue to kids in the RC Church.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

58. Again, quotes from Wright on this?

[Renaissance Man]

59. Racism

OK, then outline for me what exactly what was racist within Wright's statements? Somehow, I always ask this question, yet no one is able to give a reasonable answer to it.

[Vinca]

68. Actually, what was happening in the Catholic church was worse.

Child-abusing priests were moved from parish to parish to hide them. The church knew what was happening and didn't protect the children. It doesn't matter what they preached if they were living a lie. Words are just words whether they're inflammatory or not.

[TheZug]

84. Sexism is preached as a virtue in the Catholic church.

[mindfulNJ]

76. Some of us did leave.

nt

[kevinbgoode]

61. Exactly. And we notice no one busted into their churches and

took children away from those Catholic parents. . .or prosecuted those santimonious priests for decades. The Catholic Church was so embedded in the power structure of so many communities that they got a free pass for abuse - a lesson which Americans should never forget.

But of course, as long as they are white. . .

[TheZug]

79. Many stances of the Catholic church are antithetical to liberal progressivism.

Abortion.

Birth control.

The role of women.

Deliberate and systematic coverup of child molestation by priests.

If you can reconcile your political views with those of your church, fine. But don't get on your high horse and demand that someone else choose a church they agree with 100%.

[Occam Bandage]

81. And many stances of the Catholic church are antithetical to conservativism.

Death penalty.
War.
Social justice.
Immigrants' rights.

Anyway, saying "Obama should have found a pastor he didn't disagree with" is bit less drastic than saying "Party-line Democrats/Republicans who are Catholics should convert to another religion."

[TheZug]

82. True--how many of us have belonged to churches we agreed with 100%?

Not many, I'd wager.

[Occam Bandage]

80. Yeah, let's settle this by bashing Catholics for the horrifying child-abuse scandal.

Because, you know, it's reasonable to demand the average Catholic convert to a different religion once they learned that bishops in other dioceses were covering for pedophile priests.

[TheZug]

83. No less reasonable than holding Obama accountable for his pastor's words.

[Occam Bandage]

85. Certainly less reasonable. You're conflating the religion with the pastor.

Obama is a member of the UCC. He could have easily, and at any moment, began going to a different UCC church with a less-offensive pastor. That would be a drastic course of action to take, yes.

However, it would be an order of magnitude less drastic than if a Catholic were to convert to Protestantism or Eastern Orthodoxy due to the actions of priests and bishops in other states.

[TheZug]

86. The child abuse scandal--however pervasive--is not the issue.

The Catholic church is anti-choice.
It is anti-gay (sure, love the sinner, hate the sin, I know, but that's not the progressive liberal view)
It is anti-birth control
It is hardly in line with liberal progressive views on the roles of women.

As you say, it is anti-death penalty, opposed to war, promotes (in some instances) social justice, and immigrant rights.

The point is, very few parishioners--liberal or conservative--line up exactly with the official Catholic doctrine.

Now obviously individual priests hold different views. Some tend toward the more progressive side, others toward the more liberal. But how many of those people who condemn Rev. Wright pick up and go to another church because of their priest? Very few, I imagine. And of course even if they did, they could not find a church that lined up 100% with their views, because the list above is Official Catholic Doctrine.

So rather than get so granular about it, maybe we should just leave people alone about their faith and choice of church. If they worship Satan and sacrifice babies during their services, that's one thing. But otherwise I don't think that someone's choice of church defines who he or she is, and those that demand that someone else find a church whose pastor and doctrine they agree with 100% had better do the same thing, or he or she is a hypocrite.

[Rosemary2205]

88. You just made my whole point (Colbert and Stewarts too)

Expecting someone to throw away a whole religious tradition simply because of one single disagreement is ludicrous. Obviously the RW whackjobs and Hillary supporters hammering away at Obama should stop doing so.

[knixphan]

87. Jon Stewart IS a genius. (Colbert too)