Clinton Actually Caused GAS PRICES TO SPIKE with her Saber Rattling about Iran.

[berni_mccoy]

One fact not known to many people is that instability in the middle-east causes the price of oil to go up. The War in Iraq is all about creating instability in the Oil market. Most U.S. producers of oil do not get their oil from the middle-east, so anytime there is an instability there, the U.S. Oil companies profit. The War in Iraq is much more about destabilization of the middle-east and causing the price of oil to go up than it is about controlling the oil in Iraq. Why? Because this causes pain for Russia and China, two of our biggest trading competitors for energy. As the Chinese and Russian economies develop, the demand for oil world-wide goes up and we must compete and enter a bidding war with these two super powers over oil. When the U.S. started the Iraq War, a large supply of Oil was disrupted causing the price to go up for them, but allowing our oil companies to profit.

When Clinton signed the Kyle-Lieberman bill to call Iran a terrorist nation and when she more recently rattled her saber about Nuking Iran, she caused speculation about one of the world's largest suppliers of oil. The other fact that people don't realize is that the speculation markets, the futures, are already into pricing oil for next year, when the next president will be in office. So her words, not only were they noticed by Iran, but they were noticed by the market. Given that there is a reasonable chance she or McCain could be the next president, this caused one of the more recent spikes in the price of oil, and therefore gasoline.

So, when people consider Clinton's words about making it easier for people by granting a gas-tax holiday, which would actually grant billions in profits to the Oil companies, they should instead consider that she is one of the reasons for the recent increases in the price of gas. Her irresponsible statements and utter lack of judgment are part of the voters very real problems.

[anonymous171]

1. Obama should bring this up sometime. She's unstable

[mcctatas]

2. But she wants to give the gas tax a vacation!

I wonder if it will go to Crawford to "clear brush" ;)

[Cha]

3. And did she not cause gas prices to go up

in concert with all those who voted to bomb Iraq?

[berni_mccoy]

4. Absolutely.

[jillan]

5. Are you sure you're not a Republican?

This is what I expect to read in Newsmax, not DU.

Sad. Quite sad.

[berni_mccoy]

8. Don't like facts do you?

[jillan]

9. Facts - yes.

Bullshit - NO.

[berni_mccoy]

10. Then instead of just crying, why don't you try to refute my argument with facts.

Oh, wait, your a hillbot, you don't do facts.

[jillan]

19. When you start posting facts, I will respond with facts.

You post about how Hillary's gas-tax holiday will help the oil companies, yet you fail to post about how Hillary is going to pay for that gas-tax holiday (Hillary believes in pay-go); because if you did post the facts, everyone who reads this Rovian-type OP would know it was just bs - just some bored Obamite's obsession with trying to tear down Hillary Clinton. Which brings me back to my first response to your thread - Are you sure you are not a Republican?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jillan]

24. You are telling me to go fuck myself?

Wow - I am really impressed with that answer.

[berni_mccoy]

26. Yep. Do it. Have a happy life and welcome to my Ignore list.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. oh shud up ...your Hillary hate is making you look stupid

[berni_mccoy]

11. Exactly where is the hate in my post? The only hate is in your "oh shud up" statement.

[mcctatas]

15. Save yourself the trouble and try to teach a rock how to count...

:hi:

[berni_mccoy]

17. I have to give them a chance to look more intelligent. It's only fair.

They can choose what to do with that opportunity, or as most of them do, waste it.

:)

[quantass]

7. .

[The Traveler]

12. Wow. I think that is really reaching.

There is no doubt that the price per barrel is driven now by speculation and futures trading. However, that speculation is driven by far more than Hillary's perhaps indiscreet comments regarding Iraq and deterrence. (Actually, as a cold war veteran, I am a big fan of deterrence. I note that the Soviets and the Americans did not unleash nuclear hell upon the world ... but I digress.)

What drives the speculation is the long term regional instability amplified by Bush policies and the cold hard fact that production is indeed showing all the signs of achieving a peak. And with China and India coming on line as major energy consumers, demand is going to do nothing but increase. Uncertain supply. Certain demand growth. Speculation becomes inevitable.

The real problem (and being a southern hick motor head I hate to admit this) is that we have been burning oil for too long. We need a new energy infrastructure. Actually, we needed it 30 years ago.

I would love to blame this on Hillary, whose supporters are a real pain in the ass by and large. But I can't. Dammit.

** Edited for clarity **

[berni_mccoy]

13. You mention Iraq, but not Iran. Her comments have caused quite a stir in Iran.

And they are demanding an apology. Furthermore, you have to admit, that saber rattling does not reduce instability, and only adds to it. That's not a reach.

[The Traveler]

18. Do not construe

My comments as an endorsement of her approach to the Iranian matter. My point is it probably has little influence on oil prices ... simply because there are so many larger forces at play upon them. Subtract Hillary's comments ... those pressures still remain.

While I remain a big fan of deterrence, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

[berni_mccoy]

21. BBC Headline, March 27, 2008: "Iran Worries Drive Oil Prices Up"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6501875.stm

Oil prices closed up on Wednesday amid ongoing tensions between the West and Iran over the detaining of 15 British navy personnel.
Brent Crude rose $1.18 a barrel to hit $65.78 while US light, sweet crude oil was up $1.15 to $64.08.

Britain said satellite data showed that Navy workers seized by Iran had been in Iraqi waters - which Iran denies.

Official visits to Iran will cease and business will be suspended until the dispute is resolved, Britain said.

"No government to government business will be transacted on any other issue," the a spokesman said.

<snip>

But analysts remain concerned that continued tension with Iran will continue to have an impact on oil prices.

I have traded in the oil markets in the past. I respectfully disagree.

[The Traveler]

23. Obviously old news

but my friend ... Clinton's words cannot possibly have the impact of moving a second freaking carrier battle group into the Gulf! Now THAT presents a clear and present situation ... and speculators respond accordingly.

Harsh words are one thing ... but around a thousand cruise missiles suddenly showing up in the neighborhood is another!

[berni_mccoy]

25. A month ago is not old news, especially for it to impact gas prices due to supply lag

And words of nation leaders do impact the price of oil.

Here's another story from The Gaurdian just two weeks ago about the FEAR of ACTION causing oil to go up as caused by saber rattling (and threatened use of NUKES from Washington...um, who said that again?)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1756048,00.html

[The Traveler]

29. "Words of nation leaders"

Well, she isn't. And with any kind of luck, she won't be. That being said, I still think the reinforcement of nuclear armed naval forces in the region has more impact on the situation than Hillary's posturing.

Which is not to say I endorse her comments or think them helpful.

Buddy, you may be right about this. I may be totally underestimating the impact of this. Perhaps the psychology goes like this: "Oh, shit. Not another one! I thought we were almost through the era of trigger happy American presidents!"

So you could be right. Hell, I've been wrong on lots of stuff before. :)

[berni_mccoy]

30. True about her not being a nation leader.

And you could be right as well that the other pressures may overshadow anything she could say. I have been wrong before too. To me, there is just too much evidence for this coincidence of the recent spike in Gas. And as others have mentioned in this thread, she already contributed greatly to the price of gas with her terrible judgment to vote for the War in Iraq.

[anonymous171]

14. ORLY?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5762504&mesg_id=5762504

[berni_mccoy]

16. Thanks. Excellent follow-up. Iran is calling it a violation of UN Charter. Wow.

[The Traveler]

20. Translate, please.

What do you mean, ORLY?

Of course, the Iranians will naturally yelp as such a statement. "Obliterate". Hmmm. Yeah, I see why they might feel a little upset about that choice of words.

More distressing is Clinton's apparent ignorance of the deepening relationship between the Russian Federation and Iran, the significant ramp up in Russian weapons development and deployment, etc. (Of course Russia is investing in guns ... the bellicose policies of the Bushistas makes such a response inevitable.)

As conflicts deepen around the world, globalization becomes an accountant's wet dream ... a fantasy. Clinton's words add gas to the fire ... but there is already so much gas fueling the blaze I doubt it had a measureable effect on things.

[smalll]

27. Of course, she did it on purpose: say "Obliterate," raise gas prices, propose a tax holiday,

score some points off Obama. Just the same way she got one of her minions to invite Wright to the NPC. It's Hilly's world; we just live in it, right (Wright)?
:eyes:

[berni_mccoy]

28. No, she couldn't do anything on purpose, except lie and pander.

This was just complete lack of judgment on her part.

[Hope And Change]

31. K & R!

:kick:

[Hope And Change]

32. K & R!

:kick:

[barack the house]

33. Which is prime beef reason we are voting against the GOP, ...

Obama has the real solution a tax cut the middle and ordinary folk to pay for gas.

[barack the house]

34. Yep, that is why we have to elect the only mature candidate left.

It's what kids do say they'll blow countries away like it's the wild west or something. Hard to believe really.

[FrenchieCat]

35. I wouldn't be surprised......

Plus, she was against a Gas Tax Holiday before.

I'll have to find that cite.....I read it here though.

[berni_mccoy]

36. She was against the Gas Tax Holiday before she wanted to Obliterate Iran. She's quite the Neocon.

[TragedyandHope]

37. The information is out there, just open your eyes to see it.

:kick: