I was in the "slow math group" in school but doesn't Obama have

[Raven]

more populat votes and more delegates than Clinton? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

[Bluebear]

1. I don't think "more" wins it. I believe I have heard a certain # of delegate votes have to received.

[goldcanyonaz]

2. *gasp* You mean that magic 2025 number?

[Bluebear]

3. That's the one!

I don't think they just halt everything once somebody is ahead, but I could be wrong.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. Around here we wanted to halt everything after Hillary won NH.

And declare Obama the nominee.

[Raven]

7. Well I didn't but explain to me just why she should win this?

[goldcanyonaz]

12. Explain how HE wins this? neither can at this point w/o SDs.

[Raven]

4. Ok, ok, I think I get the 2025 but why would the SD's not follow

the popular vote? Why is their vote better than mine?

[goldcanyonaz]

6. So now you want popular vote to supercede delegates? Make up your mind.

[Raven]

10. Please answer my question about why a SD's vote should be

better than mine?

[goldcanyonaz]

15. Hillary and Obama are almost tied in popular vote.

[rock]

18. They're not better than yours

They are different, they're delegate votes. They're typically the same as a regular delegate's vote.

[davsand]

19. Raven, I think your argument on that is most properly directed at the DNC.

The SD DO have the freedom to vote as they wish, and traditionally they have followed the indicated will of the voters by going with the popular vote totals. I think this particular election has pointed out how the current design could be manipulated by determined people.

The flip side of it all, is if you think about the scenario where you do have a front runner who gets caught on film having sex with a small farm animal (of the same gender!) the party would still have a way to dump that candidate in favor of somebody else...

I'm not sure what the solution actually IS, but I can see how our party got here.




Laura

[Raven]

20. Yikes! I can see where the SD's might have to veer off if we had

a pervert for a frontrunner but, as of now we don't...you're right though, this system is open to manipulation.

[davsand]

21. That manipulation is EXACTLY what they are doing with the "close the deal" meme.

Every time you see that particular talking point come out of a Clinton mouth you have to realize it is an attempt to manipulate those SD votes. They are hammering electability right now, and that is for a reason. The way to counter that meme is to talk about how high Hil/Bills' negatives are these days.

The GOP has a straightforward design with their Primary--winner take all, so to speak--but they do limit themselves with it. How screwed will they be if some really awful shit hits the front pages about McLame between now and their convention? I dunno what mechanism they have in place for that scenario, but it does bear thinking about for the DNC if we try and redo our Primary process.

Frankly, I doubt the current scenario really would be a concern to the Dems had it not been for the DLC and its tentacles in the party. I keep coming back to it that the DLC may well be the death of the Dem party before it is all said and done. It is a cancer that needs to be excised before it takes complete control of the organism.



Laura

[Exilednight]

17. 2024 since Liebermann was stripped of his SD and that number could shrink more if...................

a few more are stripped.

[davsand]

8. You may not have been a math wiz in school, but you're doing fine with this count.

Yep, Obama IS ahead. Yep, Hil can't win this Primary barring some unseen meltdown between now and the convention (and said meltdown would have to involve felony level stuff with an immediate confession and subsequent conviction, I might add.)

You have it all correct.

To answer your final question, the entire Dem party is getting screwed right now because "Billary" and the rest of the DLC refuse to accept reality. Naked ambition is killing our party--oh--and greed. Can't forget the greed...



Laura

[npincus]

9. and you didn't win the Spelling Bee either!

[Raven]

13. You're right. I was worse at spelling but that one above was a typo!

[npincus]

16. LOL- just kidding ya, friend.

Don't hate me because I'm bitter!

[Life Long Dem]

11. Because it's about dividing the party. That's Clinton's new strategy.

She just told off all Obama supporters yesterday.

[stillcool]

14. When I read the numbers as they appear..

on the page it certainly seems that way to me.