I can't vote for someone who won only by excluding the voters of two states

[aquarius dawning]

and I can't be a member of a party that thinks that's acceptable and that thinks that the votes of prominent party officials should be weighted differently than the vote of the common man. If a fair and reasonable solution isn't reached, I'm not only not voting for Obama, I'm changing my party affiliation.

[WA98296]

1. Talk to FL and MI, they decided to handle their primaries outside the rules. And Clinton agreed then

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. once you agree to rules you can't change mid way through the election to suit yourself

[roguevalley]

86. Before everyone gets too worked up, read this from www.americablog.com

spread it far and wide:

Hillary has made such a big deal about Michigan and Florida (because it's the only way she can now steal the election), that you have to wonder why she'd keep as two of her top advisers men who were responsible for taking those states' delegates away. I mean, imagine two of your top advisers being responsible for what you claim is your number one grievance, and then keeping them as your top advisers? If Hillary really cared about Michigan and Florida, she'd fire Ickes and McCauliffe.

From AP: Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign who voted for Democratic Party rules that stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass.

In a conference call Saturday, the longtime Democratic Party member contended the DNC should reconsider its tough sanctions on the two states, which held early contests in violation of party rules. He said millions of voters in Michigan and Florida would be otherwise disenfranchised - before acknowledging moments later that he had favored the sanctions.

Then there's this from top Clinton surrogate Terry McCauliffe's book: "You won't deny us seats at the convention," he said.

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules. If you want to call my bluff, Carl, you go ahead and do it."


So much for this hue and cry don't you think? If it benefits her, she is there. when it didn't, not so much.

[Kurovski]

131. ...

"Hillary has made such a big deal about Michigan and Florida (because it's the only way she can now steal the election), that you have to wonder why she'd keep as two of her top advisers men who were responsible for taking those states' delegates away."

Maybe because that was part of the plan? Maybe they figured if Obama was making gains, this was an ace to wrangle back a lead? War room planning, and all that sort of thing?

Which state was it where Senator Clinton was the only candidate to campaign? And why did she, if it wasn't going to count?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

146. It's only when it suits her - the Queen

[Johnny__Motown]

149. IT WAS ALL HILLARY'S FAULT.. AND HER PLAN TO CHEAT. DON'T VOTE FOR HER

[Yael]

2. We will miss you greatly.

I think I may even miss you already.

[Labors of Hercules]

5. I know I do...

from the bottom of my heart.

[DJ13]

3. You play by the rules, or you dont play at all

Sorry, I guess you'll sit out the GE then.

[saltpoint]

4. FL and MI screwed up with their petulance.

I think your post is snotty and puerile, ignoring the larger landscape we all have to navigate in.

Shame on you.

[krkaufman]

155. "petulance" and "puerile", indeed.

Any decent parent knows that, having set the guidelines for behavior, the promised consequences must be carried out when a child misbehaves.

[CBGLuthier]

6. That is exactly

What I expect the senator from NY to do. If I can't win within the rules I will quit and go play somewhere else.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. Just as LIEberman did.

It's what we should expect from the DLC.

[GarbagemanLB]

7. Later. Also:

Hillary knew the rules, and is now trying to skirt them because she is desperate. All this talk about 'wanting to hear the will of the voters' is BULLSHIT.


Why is it bullshit? Because she has been on record as trying to switch PLEDGED DELEGATES. You want to talk about disenfranchising voters? Fuck her and her blatant pandering.

[marshall]

35. Hillary knew the rules, she just didn't think they applied to her!

[cjsmom44]

123. RE: HILLARY'S MOTTO

IF YA DON'T LIKE THE RULES MAKE NEW ONES

NOW LET ME THINK...WHO DOES THAT REMIND US OF

GEORGIE BUSH?

HILLARY WILL HAVE TO BE DRAGGED AWAY IN A STRAITJACKET

AND GIVEN HEAVY MEDICATION....

SHE HAS LONG BEEN OVER THE EDGE AND OVER THE TOP....

IT IS A SORRY THING THAT MOST OF HER SUPPORTERS

ARE RIGHT THERE WITH HER THINKING THAT

THEY CAN STILL WIN THIS THING...

SHE WILL DO EVERYTHING IN HER POWER TO WIN

REGARDLESS OF HER DEMOCRATIC PARTY...SHE WOULD MOW HER OWN MOTHER DOWN...

[Bad Thoughts]

8. And you've held this positions since ....? eom.

[CatsDogsBabies]

9. But it's okay to vote for somone who wins by "cheating"?

whatever... I guess everyone makes their decisions as they see fit.

[cali]

10. so leave

and take your dishonest bullshit with you to freeperville.

[Zachstar]

19. Amen!!

[Hepburn]

66. Right on, Cali!

:applause:

[TahitiNut]

72. Absofuckinglutely.

:applause:

The hypocritical posturing of some is truly despicable.

[cascadiance]

98. Ditto... Perhaps the dittoheads will welcome you continuing operation "chaos"...

[Coexist]

141. amen

[cliffordu]

12. SO?

[thunder rising]

13. Tooo baaadddd...I guess you have a need to stay with the looosssseerrsss

[Cirque du So-What]

14. Well...

BYE!

[HereSince1628]

16. !

[mmonk]

15. Then you can't vote for Clinton since she rejected revoting

to allow flawed elections to stand because she feels it would benefit her.

[Rageneau]

122. You are wrong. It was Obama who rejected all offers of a re-vote.

The Michigan Democratic Party and the Clinton Campaign were both in agreement about holding a do-over vote so that the voters in that state could hav their say-so. Clinton's campaign even volunteered to pay for it.

It was the Obama Campaign that said 'no' to a fair re-vote in Michigan. They also oppose any re-vote in Florida, even though they (Obamanians) know that their intransigence on this matter would completely exclude the voters of FL and MI from a say in the Primary.

Hillary wants every Democrat who has avote to cast one. Obama does not.

Runaway Obama. He runs away from re-votes, he runs away from debates. He runs away from a fair fight.

Truth is, the only way he ever got elected in the first place is by chicanery.

[Zachstar]

17. Bye!

[ScarletSniper]

ha ha right..buh bye!!

[RazBerryBeret]

18. hey!! what about the people who

DIDN't vote in MI and FL--Because they were told by the PARTY LEADERS and their STATE OFFICIALS that it WOULDN'T COUNT!!

what about them? there were a LOT!!

I don't think you can ignore them, they weren't heard!!!!! They deserve a vote!!!!! do you want to just drive right over them!!!!! pretend they're not there?!!!!!
they are DEMOCRATIC voters!!!

and you weren't ever going to vote for Obama anyhow--don't try to fool me.....

[davsand]

20. See ya!

:hi:


Can I give you a list of a few others to take along with you?

[Saturday]

21. Aren't the Obama supporters nice here at DU?

Screw you FL and MI and screw you aquarius dawning. I'm sure Obama would be proud.

[ScarletSniper]

36. You Hilda supporters are so funny...and full of shite

[RazBerryBeret]

43. ask Clinton's campaign Chairman how he feels

about "screwing" MI & FL???

he was all for the rules when he was head of the DNC, now he's changed his tune,
maybe it's contagious???

[Hepburn]

70. Yep...screw you to anyone who is into cheating by demanding...

...the rules change after making an agreement to abide by them.

So...if that fits you, then, "Screw you, too." :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. You're welcome to join him

if you're afraid he's going to be lonely, wandering in the wilderness.

Meanwhile, DEMOCRATS will be celebrating their victory.

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. 'Change your party affiliation'?

What you're gonna change it from Republican
to the National Socialist Workers Party now?

[cliffordu]

25. LOL Nice!

:rofl:

[hughee99]

23. So if Obama wins outright

even counting MI and FL, you'll vote for him? ...or are you just trying to rationalize a decision you've already made?

[catnhatnh]

24. Gee...you sound bitter....

are Hillary's odds just dawning on you?

[Lost-in-FL]

26. MI and FL has NOTHING to do with any of the candidates...

FL and MI Democratic leadership choose to disregard DNC rules and now people (not candidates) must pay for it.

[Kaleva]

27. I'm one of the excluded

We, the disenfranchised in Michigan, have only ourselves to blame. I went to polls to cast my vote for "undeclared" with the knowledge my ballot was meaningless. I can't speak for everyone in the Wolverine state but I expect no pity or sympathy.

[SwampG8r]

33. same here

from florida

[RazBerryBeret]

34. I am sorry, Kaleva....

that sucks that your vote didn't count, and it is a big mess!
It didn't start out well, and it's not going to end well.

It's like punishing your kid for something by telling him no TV for a week, then you realize that means he will fight with his brother and destroy his room for the entire week, and you realize the punishment is partially yours!! yeah, I've done that!!! hehehe!

I hope the majority of Michigans and Floridians are as sensible as you.

[frogcycle]

28. buh-bye

don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

[Waya]

29. But you could vote......

......or a Candidate who wins only by getting votes from States who have knowingly broken the rules? And where one of the Candidates wasn't even on the ballot in one State? And where BOTH Candidates have signed a pledge saying that the votes of at least the one State do not count based on the rule breaking?

[WillyT]

30. We'll Miss You... NOT !!!

A primary is NOT a general election. It is the party determining who gets to run, as their standard bearer, IN the general election. The party has committees and meetings where THEY vote, and agree upon the rules. The candidates sign off on those rules before the process begins. EVERY Democratic candidate this cycle signed off\agreed to the rules for 2008... WITHOUT EXCEPTION!!!

Fucking DEAL WITH IT !!!

Jesus...

:banghead:

[PassingFair]

31. Great!

From your avatar, I can see your "leaning" republican
already....

[ScarletSniper]

32. LOL..you wouldn't vote for Obama is Mithra told you to do so..lmao

[Poll_Blind]

37. HillBot suicides are so entertaining to watch- because you knew already who they supported: The GOP

  Not only won't vote for the party's choice but will switch parties!

PB

[rodeodance]

75. stop lying. There are parties other than the Repugs. ASSumptions make you look foolish

[Leftist Agitator]

106. Yeah, there sure are other parties.

Green, Libertarian, Free Soil, Whig, Anti-Federalist...

I knew you were obtuse, rodeoclown, but this deliberately obtuse? You, I, and everyone else knew exactly what the "other" party is.

Oh, but you capitalized "ASS". Way to make a cogent, nuanced argument.

:eyes:

If I were you, I'd be humiliated.

[kenny blankenship]

138. And Clintarchists - don't forget the Clintarchists

[Leftist Agitator]

142. Nice sig pic!

EPIC FAIL '08!

:rofl:

[kenny blankenship]

143. Thanks -

We also have lots of these in stock this time of year:

[Leftist Agitator]

144. LOL!

Awesome!

Put me down for a gross, would ya?

:rofl:

[Poll_Blind]

120. When Clinton is out of the race, you're going to be all alone with that hate.

  You literally fool no one here with you little word games. You are hated for your disgusting behavior- except you probably see yourself as some misunderstood savior, which is why you continue to joyously inflame opinions here. Like that bullshit about Obama being a muslim in your "list of lies".

  Fine, when Hillary's out of the running, it's not like she's going to invite you to her house so you can reminesce about the good ole days and hatch backyard plots. You're going to be a person who has filled so much of yourself with hatred and who will be all alone. Who spent so much of their fucking time on an internet forum making an ass out of yourself and spreading ill-will. Those are moments (and hours and weeks and months) you'll never get back- and for nothing.

  I would enjoy seeing how your eyes flit from object to object in the room when you realize how empty you have become. You'll pretend it's not true but the lucidity will creep back until you cannot bear to deceive yourself any longer. That day may be today, or tomorrow, or next week or next year...but it's coming for you just as it has since you started to swallow this poison as mana.

  Who or what will keep you company then, husk?

PB

[The Stranger]

38. I can't vote for someone who voted to send 4,000 young American men and women to die in Iraq.

And who voted for a war crime just because the political winds at the time favored it.

[JackORoses]

39. then how can you vote for Hillary who wants to win by SuperD and exclude the votes of all states?

How do you explain that?

[RazBerryBeret]

40. How do you feel about the Clinton Campaign Chairman

Terry Mcauliffe???

In his political memoirs What A Party!, McAuliffe -- then DNC chairman -- recounted in vivid terms the efforts by Michigan Democrats to move-up their presidential primary date just before the 2004 election. At the time, McAuliffe made clear that under no circumstance would he allow such a unilateral move, threatening to deny the entire delegation convention credentials, and arguing, "I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules."

wow! what a turn around!!!

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

41. You sound like a 5 year old. Get a grip

[Terran]

42. Would you feel the same way

if the current situation favored Clinton? Be honest. Did you *ever* question party rules before this?

[tishaLA]

44. But you support the "that state doesn't matter" candidate?

[RazBerryBeret]

47. and caucuses

don't count....


got it!

[blm]

45. How ironic, since Michigan ballot EXCLUDED CANDIDATES and many voters never

had their actual say.

Did they, aqua dawn?

You WANTED those voters excluded, right?

[RaleighNCDUer]

78. LOL - Aqua Dawn - sounds like dishsoap.

Don't you love how some trolls choose names that they think will make them sound like proper hippies?

Not naming any names, of course.

[spoony]

99. Those candidates removed their names

Michigan didn't "exclude" anyone.

[blm]

101. Michigan Dem party excluded voters from voting for their preferred candidates by breaking the rules

and yet who cares about those Michigan voters excluded, eh?

[spoony]

107. Dizzy from all that spinning?

The fact is that the candidates had their own names removed. I was correcting one of the many lies and inaccuracies people spread about the situation here.

[blm]

111. Removed out of DEFERENCE to the National Party rules they ALL agreed to -

until it was time to renege on her sworn word and NOT agree, eh?

There is no spin necessary when truth is presented.

[pdxmom]

46. Don't like Hillary either, huh? She agreed with not counting those votes

until she was losing. Worse than that, she was sure this race was over on Super Tuesday and was perfectly happy with that, meaning my vote and millions of others wouldn't count either.

Oh, and who is the one wanting the party officials to overturn the will of the voters? It isn't Obama.

[Hamlette]

48. then you can't vote for either dem...bummer for you

I hate to confuse you with facts but it wasn't Obama who made up the rules and voted against a do over.

The best thing about this election is it is showing the reality based community how dreadful the Clintons are

Keep going. When Obama wins the WH the Clintons will have so marginalized themselves they will no longer threaten the Dem party with their egoism.

[Clovis Sangrail]

49. dont' let door hit ya where the lord split ya /nt

[XemaSab]

50. The only way she can win is if the superdelegates endorse her

Do you think this is fair? :shrug:

[searchingforlight]

51. You have got to be kidding!

When I read posts like this I think we are back on the playground. If you are only a Democrat because of your candidate you were never a Democrat in the first place. If you could even begin to think that it would be a better choice to go for the party that favors the rich over the masses, the party that reveres hormonal reactions to thoughtful response, that rapes the environment for profit, that could have George Bush as a standard bearer than you are in the wrong place now no matter who the nominee is.

[RazBerryBeret]

52. hey....

has anyone else noticed he's not responding?
what up?

[stray cat]

53. Glad you have found a philosophy you agree with - although I'm sorry its republican.

[woolldog]

54. Good riddance

Buh-Bye! :hi:

[RamboLiberal]

55. Leave already - you sound like you'd be more comfortable

in the party that stole the 2000 election via the SCOTUS, brother Jebbie and Cruella Harris. Hillary's playing right from the Rove playbook, break the rules then whine that you didn't break the rules and really, really won!

[Moochy]

56. I cant vote for

i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for i cant vote for

[spoony]

57. The funny thing is, I wonder how many

of the posters in this thread saying "don't let the door hit ya" and "good riddance" and all that rot, have or would applaud or condone an Obama supporter saying they won't vote if Hillary is the nominee. Because there's been an awful lot of that bandied about.

[searchingforlight]

93. Hillary or Obama. I will vote the Democratic ticket.

I use to be an independent when I could afford the luxury. In this climate we need unity in order to take our country back.

[stray cat]

58. Republicans are alot more careful on making sure votes count

that is if they are republican votes. They sure knew how to ethically handle votes in 2000.

[donheld]

59. Go on then go

you've have plenty of time to understand this was not Obama's doing,
but you've chosen not to accept facts as they are. You've obviously
been searching for an excuse to not vote for Obama and now you've
settled on this.

[Exilednight]

60. How is FL and MI Obama's fault? The decision was made by the DNC and all candidates................

agreed until one of them started losing and began crying foul ball.

[JBoy]

61. You blame Obama for the actions of FL and MI?

Pathetic rationalization.

[Life Long Dem]

62. A spin on the - can't vote for someone who steals an election.

Yet all candidates took a "four state pledge".

[ima_sinnic]

63. awww, it's just, just so UNFAIR--waaah, boo hoo

drama queen much?

somehow I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of these "graceful exits" as this phase of Operation Chaos winds down and it becomes more and more apparent that McCain is going to be facing Obama, not Hillary, as you would've preferred.

hey! you can come back as a "concern troll." tell us how, "as a Democrat," you're concerned about various things about Obama's campaign. Sow doubt and confusion, post all the latest rumors and negative talking points. I see you're good at it.

[Hepburn]

64. Bye and enjoy voting for McCain over Obama....

...DU rules are pretty clear that you will be tombstoned.

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. Buy buy.

Yes, I know it's supposed to be Bye bye, but for Repbublicans it's Buy buy.

FUCK THE DLC.

[newmajority]

67. Guess you can't vote for DLC candidate Hillary Clinton then

because it is the fault of the DLC that Michigan and Florida attempted illegal primaries.

[anonymous171]

68. I can't vote for someone who only won a state by being the only person on the ballot

[Bensthename]

73. I can't vote for a dem that is trying to get McCain elected.. I wont vote for her in '12 either.

[Gore1FL]

74. That is the neat thing about voting

Its a personal choice to vote against your own interests for any reason you want.

[Forkboy]

76. Yeay yeah yeah....your stupidity can't be my problem.

Have fun storming the castle!

[rodeodance]

77. When the history books are written about this primary, the Obama camp will not come out on top.

[Triana]

79. The ballot on one of those states didn't even have Obama ON IT - do you think it's fair to count

THEIR votes for Hillary even though Obama wasn't on the ballot - BECAUSE *HE* WAS FOLLOWING THE RULES AND SHE WASN'T?

[Citizen Kang]

80. I can't vote for someone who can't play by the rules

Hillary agreed to the rules the party laid for primary dates, now she wants to break the rules because it is in her selfish interest to do so. The greedy state parties in Michigan and Florida wanted to steal the spotlight and usurp the process and were punished after repeated warnings.

Sorry, but your twisting the truth and being a hypocrite. Obama did not disenfranchise either state, they disenfranchised themselves and Hillary originally was going to abide by the rules. Now she wants to cheat and you want to help her steal the election. Not very DEMOCRATIC of you. Maybe you should leave the party.

[IsItJustMe]

81. We all have to pick our battles. My battles have to do with the war in Iraq, jobs, health care

and the like. Good luck with your battles.

[Patchuli]

82. Clinton and Obama agreed

not to count them as they broke party rules. Hillary cannot come back later and change the rules after the fact. You cannot seriously wish to see Old Man McCain in the WH, do you? You want more years of Republican rule and destruction of the Constitution of this the United States of America? BO was not my first choice or even my second, but a Democratic President IS my first choice no matter who it is! Please think of the good of the country which is more important than this debacle. We MUST have a Democratic President, Congress and Senate to begin to repair the damage done by the GOP!

[Honeycombe8]

83. Take it up with MI and FL legislators, who caused the problem. Or the DNC, who made

the ruling not to seat the delegates. Or with teh candidates collectively (including Clinton), who agreed with the DNC's ruling.

Personally, I will not vote for someone who won ONLY by strong arming some superdelegates to contravent the nominee that the VOTERS have chosen.

[billyoc]

84. Write, if you get work.

dumbass.

[Terri S]

85. Then apparently you're ok with a future president who has the same respect for the rule

of law that the current president has.

Changing the rules when it benefits her sounds awfully like what we have now. Perhaps a change in party affiliation to Republican would work for you, then.

[Hansel]

87. If you don't live in FL or MI you won't have to.

Because their legislatures are to blame and no one else.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

88. Please don't do this.. I REALLY want Senator Clinton to win. But we have to stand firm as Dems

Do you really want President McCAin?

[Leftist Agitator]

89. You Hillarites sure are a wacky bunch, I'll say that.

Boo hoo, your Queen lost. Cry about it some more, Hillarite.

:eyes:

[Vinca]

90. Hillary signed the death warrant for excluding the 2 states.

Just because she's backtracking now that she needs the votes, doesn't mean she isn't responsible as much as every other candidate who signed the agreement. If she didn't want the voters disenfranchised, she shouldn't have signed the original agreement. You blame Obama, but if Hillary had raised a stink when it mattered, this might not have happened. She's just as much to blame.

[RichardRay]

91. Can I hold the door open for you?

If you tell me where you live I'll have the Republican party in that state send over someone to pick up your voter registration. Maybe while you're having coffee with your new party friends you can ask them some questions about the issues you find important in the world.

Then think about it, one more time...

I'd be just as happy to hold the door for you on your way back in.

[jenmito]

92. But you could vote for someone who planned on "disenfranchising" every state after Super Tuesday?

Strange.

[ecdab]

97. It's just the whimpering of the defeated.

FL and MI put themselves in this bizarre catch 22 situation, nobody else. The fact that all the real crying started only after it became clear the Hillary had no shot without FL and MI (and that includes excluding all Obama voters completely from MI - which is OK with them) to win really bears out that this is just whimpering.

[jenmito]

103. Exactly...

It's so obvious. NO SDs will buy it, I'm sure! :hi:

[americanstranger]

94. Okay, take your ball, go home.

Just stop whining. It's all you guys do nowadays. Be an adult, for God's sake.

- as

[tomreedtoon]

95. There IS NO FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY, idiot!

They are all Republicans. They laughed when they were "forced" to set the early primary date. The Democrats, especially Bill "Blood On The Convention Floor" Nelson, want McCain as their President.

I have lived in this state since 1976. I have yet to find a Democratic headquarters. Every time I look, it's got an elephant logo on its door. And the only newspapers pushing anything close to "progressive" ideas are weekly free papers supported by ads for gay dating services.

[kwenu]

96. No candidate running has excluded voters. The DNC did that. The faux outrage is not impressive.

Oh. By the way, Hillary lost. Get over it and support the Democratic nominee.

[Unbowed]

100. Counting the votes in a primary after voters were the votes wouldn't count

excludes the votes of all those people who didn't vote based on that premise.

Those voters apparently don't matter to you.

Go ahead, become a Republican if that's what you really want. It's a free country and you can join the Repukes any time you want. If that is where you feel more comfortable, by all means, go for it.

Don't expect any real Democrats to mourn the loss though.

[MadBadger]

102. So what you're saying is you're hungry and want pizza.

[americanstranger]

104. With pepperoni!!

And mushrooms.

- as

[DemVet]

105. One thing is sure about this....

...the Democratic Party will never again be able to say "Count Every Vote!"

[goletian]

128. not when hillary wants the votes to be dismissed for the supers to pick her. - nt

[uppityperson]

108. Is this an example of hit and run posting?

[americanstranger]

109. Textbook. n/t

- as

[tinrobot]

110. What about the Obama voters excluded in Michigan?

Obama followed the DNC rules and stayed off the ballot. Hillary agreed Michigan didn't count, and even signed an agreement to that effect. Still, she put her name on the ballot, but then flip-flopped and is now claiming it counts.

By doing that, she excludes everyone in Michigan who would have voted for Obama but couldn't.

How can Michigan even count when one of the main candidates wasn't even on the ballot?

[99th_Monkey]

112. Except that Hillary agreed to do just that, then BROKE her agreement when it served HER!

[VotesForWomen]

113. Obamists care more about O getting the nom than dems winning the GE. nt

[Forkboy]

114. I would suggest that many Hillary supporters seem no different.

But that would require you to look inward.

[AZBlue]

115. What a despicable thing to fall so hard for Clinton's lies.

[annie1]

117. and even sadder to fall for Obama's marketing.

[tinrobot]

118. You don't need to market the truth.

[AZBlue]

147. Exactly

[annie1]

116. I am changing mine not because they wouldn't count them...

but because Pelosi and Dean made it clear they were partisan to Barack, when they should have stayed neutral. Pelosi went on about how superdels shouldn't override dels even if the popular vote favors the one behind in pledged delagates. that is untrue and irresponsible of her. But she is doing so because she backs Barack. And Dean calling for superdels to choose even before the pop. vote is in is equally irresponsible. I already wrote the DNC. I will be going over to Varick St. in nyc and unregistering as a democrat.

[zulchzulu]

119. You are an uninformed voter or...

In case you just crawled out from under a rock, Michigan and Florida BOTH broke the rules. They were both warned that they were about to break the rules.

In case you just crawled out from under a rock, Hillary Clinton and the other major candidates signed the Four State Pledge, which was set regarding making sure that Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina were first.

In case you just crawled out from under a rock, Hillary Clinton is on record saying that votes in Michigan would not matter.

In case you just crawled out from under a rock, Hillary Clinton agreed that Florida votes would not matter.

Then she lied...when she lost Iowa. Suddenly she wanted to change the rules. That should tell you what kind of character she has.

If you want to leave the Democratic Party based on a lie, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[WeDidIt]

121. MI and FL excluded themselves

They knew the consequences and they broke the rules. Now they pay the price.

[hayu_lol]

124. Michigan...

No one was 'required' to remove their name from the ballot in Michigan's primary.

There were two who chose to remove their anmes: Obama and Edwards. They did so, not because it was required, but because they were playing politics for the benefit of Iowa/NH voters in their own primaries.

There were four(4)Dem candidates who chose to leave their names on the Michigan ballot: Clinton, Dodd, Gravel, and Dennis 'Looney Tunes' Kucinich. Not just one(1).

Had both candidates agreed, Michigan could have redone their primary. Clinton agreed, Obama refused to consider the idea. Which is the stumbling block here? Obama of course.

Had Obama left his name on the Michigan ballot, he would have received votes. Says something about his 'judgement' does it not? One does not run for the presidency and at the same time remove one's name from a single primary.

I would suggest that this matter be settled by those Obama supporters who know these comments to be true. Educate your fellow supporters to the truth.

Tired of people crying that Obama was not on the ballot. He made that decision himself.

[WeDidIt]

126. The DNC specifically requested names be removed

And the pledge required a candidate not "participate" in the election. When that pledge was signed, it was too late to remove your name from the Florida ballot, but not too late to remove it from the Michigan ballot.

Clinton, under the rules, should specifically gan zero delegates from Michigan because she chose to participate.

[RichardRay]

125. It's official, I think - Drive by Molehill. n/t

[Tesha]

127. See ya!

(As if you ever were a Democrat...)

Tesha

[Alexander]

129. Guess what? Obama still wins with FL and MI counted.

Hate to burst your bubble. I know you're anxious to vote McCain. :eyes:

[tekisui]

130. Goodbye.

[Cheap_Trick]

132. man, you people must ride the short bus

FL and MI screwed themselves by BREAKING THE RULES. HILLARY BROKE HER PLEDGE. Get a fucking clue. Obama has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. You dipshits are swilling so much Clinton Kool Aid, you're going to fucking drown in it. Change your party affiliation, you petulant, whiny little shit. You're already half way there anyway.

Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

[futureliveshere]

133. Depends on whether you are a DEMOCRAT first or a Clinton Supporter first??

I really don't understand your view. It makes me feel that you are completely biased towards the Clintons and not the Democratic Party. You should be proud of a party that doesn't change the rules mid-way through the game. Whosoever be the leader.

The rules were laid by McCauliffe and agreed to by Hillary and now that she is down the rules suddenly DON't matter!! How is this fair and how do you support this if you are a true democrat?

[kevinmc]

134. Don't let the door hit your ass (Feb 10th 2008 - Number of posts 1479) n/t

[grytpype]

135. Take a hike.

[Greyskye]

136. and I'm taking my ball and going home!

(stomps foot with a stubborn pout!)

Oh yeah - Squirrel Award! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5680435

[angie_love]

137. this is what i mean by "unclassy" hillary supporters.

[Jed Dilligan]

139. I'm sorry for your lack of capability.

You might have educated yourself about the primary process before choosing this party--apparently you belong in the other one. Good luck in your new Republican life. I'm sure it will help you to rise in the world and command a high income.

[otohara]

140. When Do Officially Become A Republican?

and when did Obama become the official reason for MI & FL being excluded.

[demo dutch]

145. Aquarius, change your affliation by any means, but at the very least

considering carefully what you're thinking in turning this country over to McCain!

I don't like any of it either (and I'm a Floridian) and least of all the fact that a bunch of party idiots and supers get to decide who will be the nominee. However, at this point I just want a dem in office and the thought of losing AGAIN and watching the Repugs take the WH AGAIN with an idiot like McCain is too much to bear. Since the Dem platforms are pretty much the same (a platform I can at least believe in) I'll hold my nose and vote for Obama if he's the nominee.

[Czolgosz]

148. When Hillary says she got the "most votes," she's excluding ALL the caucus states so I guess she's

not an option for you either.

[GoldieAZ49]

150. I cannot imagine a political party in 2008 of 48 states

Guam & Puerto Rico count more than MI & FL?


I don't think so.

Being an independent and voting on the person instead of a party platform makes sense.

[Beacool]

151. Hear, hear!!!!!!!!

You won't be the only one. If these Obama fans would only know how many people kept saying that if he's the nominee they wouldn't vote for him.........

[RBInMaine]

152. MI and FL will be included BUT in a FAIR way !! So just chill yourself.

[McCamy Taylor]

153. I can vote for whomever we nominate, but we need to placate Florida to win this fall.

Obama is still ahead if we seat Florida and Michigan. I do not see what the fuss is about. SDs could make up the slack.

[krkaufman]

154. OK. But what about the votes of those citizens who stayed at home or voted in the Rethug primary...

... on their respective primary election days because they'd been told, by the party and by the candidates -- including Sen. Clinton, that their primaries would not be counted? Counting the Jan. MI & FL votes would disenfranchise these voters just as much as not counting the January results disenfranchises voters who showed.

I'm sorry to hear of your plans, but your argument is faulty.

[Seeker30]

156. 40% of Hillary supporters wont vote for Obama

And the people in this thread are a perfect example of why.

Better learn to like McCain, you've all done it to yourself.