Recommend this thread if you're sick of "Obama/Clinton unity ticket" threads.

[newmajority]

The DLC deserves final termination for how they have conducted themselves. Not to be rewarded with the #2 slot on the ticket. And 10,000 threads begging for it ain't changing anybody's mind.

[canadianbeaver]

1. sick and tired just scrapes the surface.......

USA....OBAMA....USA....OBAMA....USA....OBAMA

[Cha]

23. Yeah, more like they're outta their

fookin' mind.

[tokenlib]

2. Thank God for Nancy Pelosi's comments!! n/t

[Pool Hall Ace]

3. You got it.

[olkaz]

4. The "Unity Ticket" is only proposed by Clinton supporters as one more last ditch attempt

at subverting the process.

Same with the "Let's put Gore in now!" crowd.

They just don't want to see Obama win.

[washingdem]

7. Yeah, and then if Obama mysteriously dies, Hillary becomes president. No thanks.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. That wouldn't be an issue. If they ran together they would lose together, no matter

which one topped the ticket.

It's not about "liking" or "disliking" either candidate. It's about messaging.

Both campaigns' messages preclude the possibility of them running on the same ticket.

[John Gauger]

52. Exactly.

After all the bad blood it would just look colossally silly. I personally would not be able to take either of them seriously anymore (not that I take either of them too terribly seriously as things stand.)

[1776Forever]

5. I agree totally! There are not enough food testers for Barack!!!!

:hide:

Unity??????? ROFL!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cbayer]

6. This squirrel is sick and tired of squirrely threads.

[billyoc]

8. No. DLC. Ever.

DLC delende est.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. It's a recipe for losing is what it is. Instead of "unity ticket" it should be called

"the irrefutable proof that both candidates are liars devoid of integrity" ticket, no matter who is on top of the ticket.

Most of the people who yearn for it are influenced completely by emotions and haven't the faintest clue as to the importance of staying true to message. They actually believe a candidate can say one thing one day and the exact opposite the next with zero political repercussions.

"IF" Obama hadn't run on 'change, new politics, and new direction' then it might possible.

"IF" Sen. Clinton hadn't run on 'Obama isn't qualified' then it might be possible.

They think it has something to do with animosity or bad feelings as to why it isn't possible. It has nothing at all to do with that. It has everything to do with message. And both candidates' messages preclude the possibility of a so called "unity" ticket.

I think some (a few) of those calling for it are McCain supporters who want McCain to win. The rest are just naive about political campaigns.

[tblue37]

20. I think most are Hillary supporters who can't openly admit that they

know she can't win, but who are hoping that they can create a groundswell for getting her onto the ticket in the VP slot.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. Yes, there are some. But there are also Obama supporters who see it as

"why can't we all just get along and give everybody something." Either way it's a romantic notion instead of a pragmatic analysis that leads them there.

I'm all in favor of getting along with each other, and I'm all in favor of win/win solutions.

My problem with a so called "unity ticket is that it's a lose/lose solution. Can you imagine the rancor after that? Both candidates would be blaming the other for the loss.

I'm sure cooler heads will prevail, in fact have already prevailed, though I am getting tired of explaining it to the hard core romantics. It's a classic case of ignoring or failing to consider the unintended consequences.

If you look at many of the other posts on this thread, lots of people just don't really get it. Most are against it ('dream ticket) because they are partisan and they dislike a candidate. But that's not the real problem with a 'dream ticket.'

If you look at Kennedy and Johnson in 1960, that was a very continuous race, neither candidate much liked the other, but their primary campaign messages didn't preclude a unity ticket. A unity ticket was chosen because it was smart politics.

In this race, the campaign messages absolutely preclude a dream ticket, because it would be stupid politics. It has nothing to do with whether the candidates like each other or not, it has to do with basic political consistency as relates to each campaigns messages.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. The governing philosophy of both candidates is nearly identical.

I don't understand why the campaign messages necessarily preclude it.

What precludes it (and this thread indicates) are hard core Obama fans who need complete and total victory over the 15 million Clinton supporters.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Wrong.

Hillary is DLC. Obama rejected the DLC. Though they may arrive at similar positions, their rationales for getting there are absolutely opposed.

If you don't understand that, then you don't understand who and what the DLC is.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. But the fact that Clinton is DLC and Obama isn't has nothing to do with why neither

candidate could put the other on their ticket.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. It has everything to do with it.

That doesn't discount the truth of your post #54 - but those are tactical considerations; what I'm talking about is strategic.

The DLC is making a power play for the soul of the party - if they win, the progressive populists in the party are gone. They'll be pushed out to become independents or Greens. The DLC will never allow a candidate whose strength is a populist upswell onto their ticket, because that will validate the populists, which the DLC are adamantly opposed to. Hillary sharing the ticket with Obama is more unthinkable than her sharing it with McCain.

As for Obama sharing the ticket with Hillary, he has rejected the DLC - he knows what they are up to. After this campaign, it is obvious the lengths the DLC will go to to consolidate their power - even screw with the election process itself, as in FL and MI. Tactically, adding her negatives to his campaign doesn't help him. Strategically, he gains nothing by giving the VP slot to someone who will undermine his party and his supporters, and work throuoghout his term to undo what he does - which is, after all, the DLC policy.

[John Q. Citizen]

54. You know, about 4 months ago I saw a woman political science professor on Bill Moyers.

Way back then before the rancor really started to heat up she was saying that due to the messaging of each campaign their would be a "dream ticket." And she laid out the reasons, based on the campaign messaging, as to why it wouldn't happen.

That was before most of the acrimony had begun.

I think she was right then, and is still right now.

Obama is running on change and a new direction. If he put Clinton on his ticket he is shooting down his entire campaign message.

And the same is true of Clinton. If by some way she got the nomination, she can't put him on the ticket, she would be shooting down her own campaign message. She would be putting someone who she claims isn't experienced enough to be President a heart beat away from the presidency.

That doesn't mean that Clinton and Obama supporters like or don't like the other candidate. It means either candidate would be shooting themselves in the foot politically if they attempted to do that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. No it's mostly democrats who wonder how we can win

without 15 million Clinton supporters.

[speedoo]

10. K&R. Hillary can run with McCain, if she thinks he's so great.

Get lost, Hillary.

[crankychatter]

19. That's the rumor I'm starting... it will happen after Convention

so we won't have time to react

;--P

[KaptBunnyPants]

12. The unity ticket is dead. Hill won't get rewarded for back stabbing the party.

nm

[PoliticalAmazon]

13. Agree. Enough of these asinine "unity tickect" threads. She's like a piece of toiletpaper stuck...

...to our collective shoe, or an old girlfriend who simply will not leave you alone, one minute insulting you and the next minute begging to get back together.

Yuck. Every time I think about the "unity ticket" I need to go take a hot shower with strong soap to get rid of the taint.

[dmr]

14. You just made me think of

'Fatal Attraction'

Refuses to allow it to end and is obsessed with winning - at any cost - dividing and hurting the party; making it easier for the Republican challenger.

[crankychatter]

18. lol, except carpet comets don't carry knives

:--P

[L0oniX]

15. Fuck that Clinton chicken hawk

[Adelante]

16. Most Highly Recommended

:kick:

[crankychatter]

17. put em in da chair

i will pull da lever

[BlueJac]

21. Sick does not go far enough!

It is an insane idea!

[dflprincess]

22. I can't stand either one of them

I've been hoping that maybe the person in the VP slot would be a progressive Democrat.

[Voltaire99]

31. Q: What's a progressive Democrat?

A: The guy getting Tasered outside the convention.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. So sad

and true.

[NM Independent]

24. See Sig

K&R

[cliffordu]

25. ....

[graycem]

26. I am now..

I would have loved it if things hadn't gotten so personal. They really would've been unstoppable. Policy disagreements and "fighting against" each other are one thing, but the personal character snipes, are a whole different ballgame. Now I just don't see how it could be possible, and probably a big fat disaster.


I do love these pictures though, and who knows. Maybe they're not personally harmed by the things that have been said, because they know it's all "just politics" and can make amends. I've heard the same about GHWB and Reagan, and others, who put personal ills aside and did what was politically advantageous.

[newmajority]

48. With Poppy and Reagan, it was more like a "hostile takeover"

Most of the so called "Reagan cabinet" were old Bush Crime Family cronies. If I remember correctly, only Don Regan & Ed Meese (out of the original cabinet) were Reagan loyalists. And when that didn't convince Ronnie about who was in charge, the "message" that Poppy had delivered on March 30, 1981 certainly did.

And I could see that type of situation repeated, if certain elements were allowed anywhere near an Obama White House. Which is why they won't be.

[graycem]

56. Ah, ok

thanks for explaining that. I was a kidlet so wasn't sure how exactly that came about. I didn't even realize they had been "unfriendly" to each other until people started talking up the unity ticket thing.

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. It could never happen - and it's not about personalities.

Obama is the very personification of everything the DLC was created to destroy.

A popular Democrat, supported by a strong populist movement that can bypass the structure of the lobbyist supported party funtionaries. The whole idea of the DLC was spawned by the populist revolts within the party, for which the so-called centrists blamed the losses in 72 and 80, as well as the win in 76 (which was as much a loss for THEM as it was for the Republicans).

Hillary is DLC - she is the very personification of the DLC.

There is no way she could ever support Obama, or allow Obama to hold power. His candidacy is an anathma to the DLC.

[graycem]

57. I will trust

your observations. I am not nearly a political junky as many here are, and I'm pretty naive about the differences between the DLC/DNC, but I'm learning. Thanks.

[JBoy]

27. K&R

[BlueCaliDem]

28. K&R, newmajority. Thanks SO MUCH for this thread eom

[tammywammy]

29. Yep

[Voltaire99]

32. If the warmonger Clinton is anywhere on the ticket...

then I stay home.

[PBS Poll-435]

33. I recommend because Obama needs at least a decade to prepare for the "big show."

Not ready yet...

[metamars]

34. Obama / Bradley in '08

Bill Bradley has given serious thought to our country's problems, in a 'big-picture' sort of way, is cautiously optimistic, and has internalized the notion of public service. Compare that to Hillary's win at any cost, me-first attitude, and there's no good reason why we should settle for a so-called unity ticket. Heck, Hillary is so selfish, she'd probably bad-mouth Obama during the campaign!

See Bill Bradley's 'The New American Story'




Hillary Dillary Dock
She thinks she can run out the clock
But second place she'll never shed
Because that strategy only works when you're AHEAD
Hillary Dillary Dock


The End

[Eurobabe]

35. Barack->Doesn't->Need->Hilly

JUST STAY NO!!

[barack the house]

36. Thank you. This post made me focus, still feel he needs a woman vp though.

[TBF]

41. Wrong -

he is a black male and there are still serious race issues out there (see: Pennsylvania exit polls). Real dems will stick with Obama even if they liked Hillary; closet racist dems will go to McCain. Barack needs a moderate white male as vp to compete for swing voters.

I really mean this in the best way - if Hillary is top of the ticket she will need to do the same thing. I really think moderates hate her - but a moderate white male as vp could help with that. Edwards might be a thought, but he may be too populist. A moderate white male governor is probably the best choice for either of them.

I really don't think they have a prayer of winning if they run on the same ticket. It's too much for middle America to accept - the average joes/janes will vote McCain. I'd like to see people evolve faster, but some are really slow. ;)

[pipi_k]

38. If no unity ticket, then how do we

manage to win in November if nearly 50% of each side's supporters say they'll refuse to vote for the other person if their favorite doesn't win?

I heard this in passing on CNN the other day. Maybe people are just really really pissed off now and tempers will cool by the time a candidate is nominated.

But I find it depressing and scary...

On another discussion board I go to, a couple of Obama supporters said basically the same thing...they hate Hillary and their consciences will not allow them to vote for Hillary if she (by some act of God or magic) becomes the Democratic candidate. I don't know how convincing I was in telling these people that a non-vote...or a write in vote for Obama...would be political suicide, because no matter what, a Democrat HAS to win in November (speaking of which, has anyone noticed McCain and Huckabee getting all fuzzy with each other lately??? Talk about SCARY!!!)


Anyway, suspicions aside that Obama would somehow mysteriously die while in office (as another poster said)...I don't think Hillary would be so stupid as to pull something like that. I think for her it would be personal political suicide, especially if she has hopes of running and winning on her own merits in 2012.

But how do we bring about party unity...how do we convince people that voting for the other person, if one's own person doesn't make it...is politically expedient? For me, about the only thing that would make that possible would be a unity ticket. Especially if Hillary convinces Super Delegates to choose her and she picked Obama as a running mate.... would anyone else have a problem with that?

How else do we heal the wounds?

[TBF]

40. Huge problem with that -

The problem is that Hillary can't win the general election. Moderates hate her. She only has working class dems, and that's not enough.

I think Obama should just wait it out if she steals the nomination. He is young and can run in 2012 to clean up the mess after McCain's first term. If there is anything to clean up - McCain may just set off World War III (and that is why tempers will cool & dems will stick together - who wants crazy McCain heading the ship?). If any dems vote for him they deserve what they get.

[newmajority]

50. We heal the wounds by shutting down the DLC and being DEMOCRATS again

Any actual Democrats who are supporting Hillary (though I can't possibly imagine WHY) will be in favor of that. The neocons and repukes pretending to be "democrats" can go straight to Hell for all I care.

[RaleighNCDUer]

53. Hillary wouldn't have to do it - Bushco would, and thereby destroy

the Democratic party, because they would arrange it to point to Hillary, just as they arranged the JFK hit to point to LBJ.

[Zachstar]

42. Amen! No Unity ticket!!

[SlingBlade]

43. K & R

And thanks for posting this :)

[kwyjibo]

44. I would have gone for it several months ago. No longer though.

After all her bullshit, I don't see how he would be able to stand campaigning with her... let alone run a country together.

[undeterred]

45. Sick to death of it. NO MORE CLINTONS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

[D23MIURG23]

49. Not to mention the fact that Hillary has nothing to offer Obama.

Other than a share of her astronomical negatives that is.