Hillary Clinton's Warrior-Spirit & Why My Support Continues

[Stand and Fight]

Hillary Clinton does not give up. She fights on even when the odds are seemingly insurmountable. Even when others abandon the principles of this august democracy and call for her to drop out of the race. Hillary Clinton took up fighting for national health care even knowing she'd be villainized by the very real vast right-wing conspiracy. She continued that fight even when the cowards in our own party would not stand by her. She has -- despite the propaganda of the right-wing now mouthed by Obama Democrats -- fought hard and against the odds. This is precisely why I so staunchly supported Edwards and why I now so staunchly and -- YES! -- passionately support Hillary Rodham Clinton. Lately, the Republicans newest allies, some of the most liberal members of the Democratic Party (even on this board), have continued to attack Hillary Clinton. She has become the proverbial red-haired step-child within our party. I can identify with that. Growing up as a foster child and having been told then I would never amount to anything because of my background and my mother's drug abuse, my poor economic background, a horrible temper as a youth, a family that had never gone to college... Foster parent after foster parent said I would wind up on drugs and a nobody. Well, I have always rallied against these notions.

Why do I love John Edwards and Hillary Clinton? Because I see myself in them -- I see that fighting spirit to never give up, to keep pushing forward. After John Edwards abandoned his bid for the nomination, I was thunderstruck to say the least. I knew after a couple of days reflection and research that I had to roll with Hillary Clinton. As an African-American who has experienced more prejudice from my own people growing up, I can identify with being part of the outcast sect.

Imagine -- even if you are not African-American -- what it means to be called a "sell-out" or snowflake" or "Uncle Tom" because you happen to listen to classical music and happen to not be a big fan of hip-hop/R&B, because you are not concerned with dressing in the latest fashions because you simply cannot afford them, or mocked and spurned because you happen to talk in a way that is not seen as "fitting in." Many days -- and especially in junior high -- I came home crying because of the relentless torment I had endured. Even if I said nothing to the tormentors they would go on and on. Sometimes I reacted and I fought back with my fist in my adolescence. As I grew older I bottled up my resentment and bitterness and poured it into excelling academically. I fought. I soldiered on no matter what. That is precisely what I see Hillary Clinton doing.

I am in many other ways different than the typical Hillary supporter. My annual income is over $75,000, I'm relatively young (30), a veteran, white-collar worker (Web Developer), have two years of college and will be going back to school in the fall... The more people on here put Hillary Clinton down, the more committed I grow to her and her candidacy, because quite frankly Barack Obama's candidacy has come to represent everything that has consistently been a road-block in my own life. Am I bitter? Yes! Am I driven to stubbornly support Senator Clinton because of my own past? Yes! Why? Because it seems that the arrogance of Obama's supporters on here are highly reflective of everything I've fought against all my life. Now I see those same fad-driven, arrogant, self-important jerks mocking a perfectly good Democrat -- someone who does not give up and refuses to surrender even though the odds are against her. (Never mind the media that people here once spurned! And now people like Chris Matthews et al are hailed as heroes...) I find it despicable, and I am every more committed to Hillary.

INSPIRED BY THIS THREAD:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5638786

ON EDIT: I will not reply to post that are inflammatory. If someone cares to have a civil discussion, I will talk to them. However, I shall not fall into exchanges of insults. I will have to "agree to disagree". ;)

[anonymous171]

1. If only she fought for democratic principles.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mezzo]

6. She DOES. Tell Harry and Louise of your outrage. nt

[anonymous171]

Give me a link to whatever you are talking about NOW or else shut up.

[rodeodance]

72. gimme , gimmie gimme. Little testy today I see. tsk tsk

[Stand and Fight]

7. She does.

I wish you folks would see that and direct your energies toward the real threat to democratic principles -- John McCain intends to continue Bush's policies. Yet people on our side continue to lob baseless accusations and falsehoods against Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton fights for democratic principles -- even though I don't agree with all of her platform, I will not go so far as to say either she or Obama are anything like Bush or do not fight passionately for the democratic principles which they believe in.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. You may think it is cute that she is fighting on, but the question is at what cost to the party?

[Stand and Fight]

9. Shall the party exceed the needs of millions of people like me?

People like me who feel she represents us because some feel she should drop out. Please grow up and do not belittle my thoughts with words like "cute." No where did I write or imply that I thought her fighting on was "cute." It is the right thing to do. Your straw man attempt is garbage to say the least. I suppose your SN says it all.

[GarbagemanLB]

12. How about this: Once all the primaries are done, do you support her taking it to the convention?

[Stand and Fight]

27. That is her choice.

If there is no way for Obama to get to the magic number... Yes, I say take it all the way to the convention. I'm sure you would want your candidate to do the same. At least I hope you would.

[MattBaggins]

64. I would not hope so

If Obama had no chance of winning the nomination I would take a scorched earth fight for the sake of fighting stance. I don't believe a circular firing squad with Dems slinging venom and accusations at the convention is actually good for us. this has gone beyond the well meaning debate and discussions of policy ideas. It has become a full out hissy fit pissing match. We are in the stages of a Democratic civil war and may have already reached the point of handing this to McCain.

[hfojvt]

80. millions of people like you?

Probably there are millions, but you already admitted that you make more money than about 75% of American households. So there are HUNDREDS of millions of people not like you in that respect.

[redqueen]

Exactly.

Candidates nominated in long, drawn-out primaries usually lose.

[sushi]

31. What a silly thing to say

It's not like he has a billion votes and she has 10. If he can close the deal then it's his. If not, she's very much entitled to go on.

[nebula]

3. The last thing we need in the WH

is another 'warrior.'

[anonymous171]

4. War President Hillary

[sushi]

23. I think you're wrong

Men are the aggressive ones. Let a woman have the chance to show what she can do. She will be a much better leader than Bush, and since she's a woman, we can be sure she'll be more compassionate than any man!

[anonymous171]

24. I hope you're joking.

[sushi]

32. No, I'm not!

!

[anonymous171]

34. Hillary is the hawk in the race, not Obama.

[Stand and Fight]

14. Oh yes...

Let's get someone like Gentleman Johnny. We see how that faired in 2004. It failed then. It will fail now. We need someone who will fight. Have you all developed a case of amnesia and forgotten the behavior of the Republicans the last 16 years?

[nebula]

22. Hillary is a warrior alright

...a warrior fighting for insurance company profits.

She has received more campaign contributions from health insurance companies than anyone in Congress, Repub or Dem.

[Arkansas Granny]

42. Do you have a link to back up that claim?

It appears from this source that Obama has received a healthy chunk of change from them also.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=H03

[nebula]

44. Her mandated corporate healthcare plan

tells me all I need to know about what she stands for.

[Arkansas Granny]

I'll take that to mean "No, I don't have any facts to back up my claim".

[nebula]

62. You just provided the link

your link shows that she takes in more insurance company money than anyone.

[Arkansas Granny]

68. Pardon me, I misread your initial post.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. What do you think of the way she "fought" against BushCo the past 8 years?

Why does that famous Clinton fighting spirit only arise when it's their asses that are on the line?

[Indenturedebtor]

10. Supporters?

You would be encouraged to support someone because his/her opponent's supporter behave in a way that you find objectionable?

Further, I would almost agree with you... IF she was fighting Republicans. But she's not, she's smearing the inevitable nominee for personal gain at the expense of the future of her party and the causes that she supposedly wants to support as President.

So yeah I hate her because she's a "fighter" as you say. Oh and a liar. And more but why bother ;)

[Stand and Fight]

18. This is a primary. n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

49. Yes it's a primary

Which is exactly why she shouldn't be smearing fellow Democrats. McCain had no chance before she started smearing the nominee chosen by the majority. I wanted Edwards to be President. I respected him more for dropping out when he did though I was heartbroken. I respect HRC less every day for staying in, and hate her more for behaving as she has. She's a shame on the party at this point.

[Adelante]

11. I'm tired of war

And I'm tired of people who authorize them. Obviously, from your two candidates, you feel differently.

[blm]

13. Hillary rolled over on every battle INCLUDING healthcare - she didn'tlead ONE MAJOR BATTLE against

Bush the last 7 years.

Where was the fight for YOU and for Dems then?

She spent more time attacking other Dems the last 7 years and even undermining any Dem who DID oppose Bush.

[Stand and Fight]

47. Please do post some facts and figures supporting your position.

More specifically, please show me the numbers -- the ratios if you will -- as to how much time Hillary spent attacking other Democrats and how much time she spent attacking those who did oppose Bush to the time she spent attacking Republicans and those who opposed Democratic proposals. If you please...

[blm]

54. Get real - there is NO PROOF of Hillary leading an opposition to Bush and

here's stories of TeamClinton supporting and DEFENDING Bush as they backstabbed Kerry.


NOTED HISTORIAN Douglas Brinkley made this comment in April 2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

LKL was only ONE of many high profile interviews Bill made during his summer 2004 in defense of Bush against the criticisms of his Iraq war decisions being made most notably at the time by the DEM NOMINEE.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night. Who do you THINK he was working for?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Hillary validates another Bush smear against Kerry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


AND FACE IT - YOU posted what you did using NO PROOF That Hillary FOUGHT and OPPOSED BushInc over the last 7 years let alone LED a fight while she was in the senate. If you COULD, you would have done so.

[Stand and Fight]

61. Who said anything about her LEADING an opposition.

I was simply requesting -- without the rudeness or snideness in your reply to me -- that you post some facts and figures. What a sad day it is on this board when one is lambasted rudely for asking for proof. Sad state of affairs. However, I will read your links. Thank you for posting them. I appreciate any information.

[blm]

69. I post tough and straight - not snide. If you read it again you might not see

the snideness as much as the direct straight talk.

[sniffa]

15. She's like Xavier: Renegade Angel

[DJ13]

16. Xenalliary......Princess Warrior

Fighting on is one thing, destroying the party you are supposed to represent in the process is just a disgusting exercise in ego masturbation.

[cliffordu]

17. 'Warrior Spirit' my huge white pimpled fucking ass...

Are you on DRUGS????


Warriors are not character assassins, thieves or slanderers.


But you obviously don't know that.

FAIL

[Stand and Fight]

21. As usual...

An in-depth and thorough reply from an Obama supporter. Rather than respond with a thoughtful and meaningful reply, you debase yourself by posting this... Sad.

[cliffordu]

26. That's me. The debaser.....

At least I have never lied about being under sniper fire.

She's a DINO.


Think: She could be the first woman to drop a nuke!!!

[Stand and Fight]

30. You could lie about being under sniper fire.

However, I doubt the news media would report on it much. :evilgrin:

I can think of far worst things than lying about being under sniper fire -- thought I don't see it so much as a lie as an embellishment. I think you're using hyperbole yourself when you say she could be the first woman to drop a nuke. Well, Obama could be the first biracial man to drop a nuke. I don't see the logic in your bringing that up. I don't think either of our candidates would do that. Now crazy McCain... yes. He scares me. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton not so much.

[cliffordu]

39. I dunno....Ask the mother of a kid who had to be buried in a closed

casket cause he had no face after a involvement in a little REAL sniper action and we'll see what's a little hyperbole.

And by the way - I HAVE been under sniper fire.

It was a bald faced lie to make her look like she was a real veteran....and McCain will bury her with it if she steals the nomination.


They just play the clip of her bragging about running to the cars under sniper fire and juxtapose THAT with film of McCain being drug from that lake in Hanoi right after being shot down before going to the Hanoi Hilton.


I think about that and it makes me sick to my stomach.

Game set match.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Custer had "warrior spirit" (whatever the hell that is) too.

But, if you value fatheaded doggedness as a value..Hillary fits the bill.

[libbygurl]

53. What a non-sequitur comment. Earth calling, hello?

[datopbanana]

20. oh lord... and HRC calls BO supporters "cult" like.

[earthside]

25. "Warrior-Spirit"?

After nearly eight years of Bush-Cheney, haven't we had our fill of "warrior-spirit"?

Indeed, much of the original post sounds a lot like Bush and his theme of never giving up ... look where that "warrior-spirit" has gotten us in Iraq.

[Stand and Fight]

28. To compare Hillary to Bush is uncalled for...

Bush and Cheney never had warrior spirit. That's why we've all referred to them as chicken-hawks on here. I do not believe that Hillary Clinton would make their choices are mistakes. That is my strong and humble opinion.

[ShortnFiery]

29. Hillary Clinton = Bully and Perpetual Victim when it suits her needs.

IMO, She's the biggest PRETENDER because when she gets in trouble SHE WHINES, "Oh you're just picking on me because I'm a girl!"

But when no one is looking, she'll figuratively kick her opponent in the crotch and follow-up with a kidney punch. She's a gutter fighter, the lowest of the low. :grr:

HRC fights dirty - if she's "a warrior" it's for The Dark Side.

[newmajority]

33. Grandpa McLoony appreciates your "warrior spirit"

Thanks, Hillbots!! Keep hopelessness alive, and the press outa my hair.
Or what's left of it.

[scheming daemons]

35. Real warriors have honor..... she has none...

....

[walldude]

36. That's what we need in the white house..

another fucking faux warrior. Yeah I saw her "warrior" mentality on her Iran comments. Her idea of being a warrior is to press a button and kill millions of people. The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range.

[Politicub]

37. Fantastic post!

And I just got an email from my mom saying she and my grandmother voted early in NC today for Hillary!!

:bounce:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

41. Awesome ... I voted for her yesterday!!

:hi:

[zabet]

48. Voted Hillary here in NC yesterday in early voting.

Plenty of Hillary signs up but....not one single little Obama sign. :rofl:

[Stand and Fight]

52. Thank you.

I'm happy to hear something positive on here. I am sure that all the nastiness that has come to represent Obama supporters on this board will be thrown my way.

[Cha]

38. hilary is good at smearing and lying and has

nothing good to promote. If you admire that then you'll have to look at your moral center...and she wouldn't be where she is without the m$$m helping her out

[SaveOurDemocracy]

40. Well said. Best to ignore the ravagers, they are locked

in their hatred. :hi:


k&r

[Stand and Fight]

45. I could not agree more.

Hence the reason for the little addendum at the end of my post. I have found that they shall not be civil, and why should I waste my time getting worked up. It's as if they've forgotten about her years of supporting Democratic politics and her tireless work. Nonetheless, I refuse to debase their candidate with lies and falsehoods. Barack Obama is a fine candidate -- he simply is not my candidate of choice.

[Liquorice]

43. I support her too! Great post. nt

[LulaMay]

46. K & R!!!

[libbygurl]

50. Oh, thank you for your deeply inspiring post, Stand and Fight!

I feel the same way you do about Hillary and her tenacity despite all odds. That's why my support for her grows deeper, the more they pile on to her with crap. She just dusts it off, stands up proudly, and strides forward - with a smile, lots of grace and dignity - to fight for the nomination for another day. And her record shows her to have fought for worthwhile causes all her life.

Wonderful post. Thank you so very much for sharing your story.

~ libbygurl

[Stand and Fight]

56. It's not easy, but I grow more resolute every time I read an attack on here.

It's as if some of these folks have failed to realize that they shall catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I can remember when I was a John Edwards supporter. I was of the opinion that the Obama supporters were a wee bit too nasty for my taste. Now every time I log onto DU, I have only to look at threads like the current reigning one on the Greatest Page ( See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5642736 ) to be reminded as to why I must remain resolute.

Thank you for your reply. It is a good deal more in-depth than the nastiness and right-wing talking points being spewed by O-Supporters above. :hug:

[tabatha]

51. Mugabe also dug in and refuses to give up.

[libbygurl]

55. Another non-sequitur. You people are all in the tangents.

Fallacious logic strikes again.

[Stand and Fight]

58. They excel at it. n/t

[tabatha]

73. Not at all.

They are both blind to reality.

There is no way Hillary can win the pledged delegates.

None.

[MattBaggins]

57. If you see Obama as an enemy

to be fought against until the bitter end; let's just congratulate McCain right now and save all the time and money for the GE. We can put the money we save in a fund for the bombing of Iran.

[libbygurl]

59. Democrats kept crying for 'a fighter' for the last two stolen elections...

...and when they have a perfectly fine, fighting candidate with loads of good proposals and ideas, they simply attack her. Some Democrats aren't really interested in making real change in real people's lives - just hanging on to their pure ideas, not letting the realities of the world touch them, and living in la-la land.

[Shae]

60. I got through about the first paragraph

of what you wrote, and I started to get a sugar rush. It was just too sacchariney for me.

I get it. You're in love with Hillary. Not all of us are. I find her dishonest and deceitful which is a shame because I used to like and respect her. I find it appalling that Hillary -- the Democratic candidate with 10% chance (probably less than that now) of being nominated is maligning the Democratic candidate with the 90% chance of being the nominee.

I wouldn't care how long she stayed in the freekin' race if she'd just quit doing John McCain's work for him.

[anigbrowl]

63. respectful disagreement: why I think you're wrong

<...> Barack Obama's candidacy has come to represent everything that has consistently been a road-block in my own life. Am I bitter? Yes! Am I driven to stubbornly support Senator Clinton because of my own past? Yes! Why? Because it seems that the arrogance of Obama's supporters on here are highly reflective of everything I've fought against all my life.

Now, I'm not African-American, but I can certainly tune into your feelings of rejection and outcast-ness. I'm European and unfortunately such in and out groupings are widespread. So while my experience is quite different, the net result is similar.

It seems to me that part of why you're disenchanted with Obama's candidacy is because it's the popular movement, and you're well aware that the popular thing isn't necessarily the best thing, and the people who like it can be cruel to those who do not share their view. I certainly can't disagree with that. On the other hand, I think you've overlooked two fundamental things:

1. Barack Obama had to really fight and apply himself to get to where he is today, in many of the same ways that you have. I really don't think he has fought any less hard than Clinton has. I doubt his lighthearted description of himself as 'a skinny guy with a funny name' is entirely pain-free. I could offer you many other examples but I'm sure you get my point.

2. Avoiding what's popular because it's burnt you in the past can end up being its own kind of trap. I won' regale you with my life story here or try to dissect your personal experience from one forum post, but it's hard not to see a reflection of my own reaction-formation here, and I've found that enlightenment (as in finding one's place in the world) is much more of an ongoing process than a single decision you make.

Draw your own conclusions - I'm not telling you how to vote or donate, but suggest you might want to consider your decision history. I can see why John Edwards would have been an attractive candidate to you. I like him too, but don't think he 'had what it takes'. Personally, I went for Obama last year at about the time his numbers were lowest, just after he commented on his willingness to pursue bin Laden in Pakistan with or without local cooperation. I have quite a few conservative friends that I discuss politics with regularly, so you can imagine how my choice went down in those conversations - though nowadays, my predictive skills seem to have earned a bit more respect.

Certainly, it's tempting to look at one's decision in contrast to those who are opposed to it (in your case, Obama supporters) but the reality is that any such decision involves turning a blind eye to those who agree with you but with whom you otherwise have nothing in common. Thus there are Obama supporters here who embarrass me to the point of my having them on ignore. But what can you do. There are millions of Democrats out there who I think are daft as a brush. But despite considering many of them to be hopelessly wrong on various issues, it's worth putting up with because the Republican alternative is usually so much worse.

[Yossariant]

65. Your usual, thoughtful insight is greatly appreciated here, Stand and Fight.

:thumbsup:

[Capn Sunshine]

66. Hey, you're in great company--Murdoch and Mellon-Sciafe

Scaife pictured here in this today comic


THAT support should be a HUGE red flag for you and it is the main reason I can't support Hillary's candidacy. That her orgainzation thinks this is A-OK just baffles me. These guys personify all that is evil in the right wing. All you'd get is more misery for the middle class.

[sampsonblk]

67. Then why didn't she fight the IWR?

She caved in immediately, and even helped the other side.

Maybe she only fights for herself these days.

[rodeodance]

70. Thanks so much.

[shayes51]

71. She IS a fighter.

And I appreciate her and I appreciate your post. Thank you.

[Stand and Fight]

74. She is definitely a fighter, and they hate her for it.

All I remember hearing on this site for years is that we needed a fighter. When we get one they disparage her. Strange.

[newmajority]

75. Problem is that she only FIGHTS Democrats.

She's been in the Senate for almost 8 years, and has NOT fought the Republicans where it counts.

Because she IS one.

[Avalon6]

76. Kick nt

[wileedog]

77. Hint: Being too stubborn to understand your ass is whupped

does not make you a fighter.

It makes you George Bush.

[ecstatic]

78. Wow. Seek help. This election is about the future of this country, not what happened to you as a

child!

HILLARY is responsible for the latest increase in gas prices because she's going around the country with a bunch of tough talk about how she will NUKE and OBLITERATE Iran. Are you against the Iraq war? Are you against nuclear weapons? WAKE UP!

[kevinbgoode]

79. If only she had fought that intern in a blue dress. . .

[eridani]

81. Wish she was as interested in obliterating Repubs as in obliterating Iran n/t

[nxylas]

82. Unfortunately, this is the sort of warrior whose spirit she represents

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno