Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Speak out against Hillary's claim that she is ahead in the popular vote!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:33 PM
Original message
Speak out against Hillary's claim that she is ahead in the popular vote!
I'm new posting here, but I have been lurking for a long time, and I have seen how well the people of DU come together to help correct the media. Hillary's latest claim that she has pulled ahead in the popular vote has got to stop! When does the media call BS on something that is so obviously not true? Is there something we can do to protest the continued coverage of this lie? Even repeating it (or letting Terry McAuliffe say it) on the cable channels helps plant it in people's heads.

Slate had a good argument against the popular vote lie today. Pay special attention to the part that explains that the popular vote count isn't even a valid count...this is something that we need to make sure people understand. Counting the popular vote disenfranchises most of the people who voted in caucus states:

Clinton’s New Favorite Metric
By Christopher Beam

The Clinton campaign has always had its own way of doing things. When Clinton realized she couldn’t win the pledged-delegate count, it became about the popular vote. When that gap widened, it became about “big states.” Now it’s back to being about the popular vote—only the Clinton campaign isn’t counting like the rest of us. As predicted, they’re including Florida and Michigan.

There are so many problems with this, it’s hard to know where to begin.

First, the obvious: Florida and Michigan don’t count. If you’re talking about the overall tally, Obama still leads by about 500,000 votes. If you include Florida and Michigan, though, Clinton is ahead by 120,000. Nevermind that neither candidate campaigned in Florida (Clinton will tell you that Obama violated this agreement by airing an ad on CNN ad that appeared across the country, including Florida) and that Obama wasn’t even on the ballot in Michigan. That’s why none of the networks—not NBC, not ABC, not CNN—are including those states in their popular-vote tallies without caveats.

Next, there’s the Clinton camp’s duplicity when it comes to reporting these numbers. ABC’s Jake Tapper reports this morning that Clinton’s Fact Hub twisted an ABC report on the popular vote. ABC News’ Rick Klein had written, "By one (rightly disputed) metric -- the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan -- Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama. But without the rogue states, Obama is still up by 500,000 -- and if you can find another objective measurement by which she’s in the lead, let us know.” Based on that report, the Fact Hub claimed that “ABC News reported this morning that ‘Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama’ in the popular vote.” That Tapper bothered to report the misrepresentation makes it pretty clear that the Clinton camp is going to get resistance on this one. If they want to twist the numbers, they’ll have to do it without the media’s help.

Lastly, there’s the fundamental problem with the popular vote: It’s wrong. As we’ve pointed out before, the popular-vote tally includes only the roughest estimates of caucus turnout, since many caucus states only report delegates, not individuals. Moreover, because caucus turnout is low relative to primaries, the popular vote ends up underestimating the candidates’ popularity in those states. So whoever does better in caucuses—in this case, Obama—ends up getting underrepresented. (You could argue that this is divine retribution for Obama’s skewed performance in caucuses, but hey, that’s the system the states chose—and the candidates agreed to.) So the “popular vote”—an authoritative-sounding phrase—is really just a shoddy estimate that underrepresents Obama’s caucus performance and therefore favors Clinton.

That’s not to say Clinton’s magical popular-vote math won’t sway a few superdelegates. No doubt it will. New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine said last month that he would reconsider his support for Clinton if Obama won the popular vote. If he’s looking for an excuse to stick with Clinton, this could be it. But most supers are likely to be extremely squeamish about disregarding the pledged-delegate count. No modern presidential candidate has won the Democratic nomination without winning pledged delegates, and no superdelegate wants to facilitate a historical first like that when it means potentially undermining the first black president. On the other hand, if that’s true, you wonder why they’re waiting so long to decide.

Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:57 PM

Filed under: Hillary Clinton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. do you have a link?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Here's the link...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thank you and welcome to DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks, SunsetDreams!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think you can include MI in any popular vote total.
Obama was not on the ballot and you can't just assign him the Uncomitted vote because Edwards supporters also voted that way.

FL you can make a case for as a straw poll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for the rational post rinsd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
purji Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Thank you!
some one is trying to tell me that only the Hillary votes and any "write-ins" for Obama should count.
The 45% uncommitted are the only ones allowed to be disenfranchised.
But of course they say that cuz there is no way Hillary would have gotten a 55% to 0% lead in Michigan in a real election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. One thing that she is magically trying to factor in again/still are the states of...
Florida and Michigan (and by factor in I mean use these states in the popular vote). Win at all costs, thats our good friend Hillarys motto.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Since this election, my eyes have been opened who the clintons really are
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 01:40 PM by still_one
they are inherently dishonest and not trustworthy

Lying comes second nature to them

Unfortunately, if she get the Democratic nomination by whatever means I would still vote for her in the general election

However, if Obama leads in the popular vote and the delegate vote, and she gets it through super delegates, I will no longer be a Democrat. The party has slowly been leaving behind the values of what the Democratic party stood for since FDR

I will still vote for her in the general election if she gets the nomination by any means, but as a life long Democrat I will become an independent



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Remember she got the popular vote...
when she scurried off of the plane in Bosnia and zig zagged along the runway to safety. Lips moving? Don't believe a word she says.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bigleaf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Her campaign is spewing this shit everywhere today. Holy Fucking Desperation, Batman!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Welcome to DU
That's a great first post :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thank you, Catherina! I'm delighted to be here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Disenfranchisement?


That's hi-LAR-ious!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Welcome to DU, nonobadfish
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks, southern belle...I'm a Southerner too...and a bitter white woman over 50 (barely)!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC