Has the behavior of a candidate's supporters on DU altered your view of that candidate for the worse

[Sparkly]

That's the question:
Has the behavior of a candidate's supporters on DU altered your view of that candidate for the worse?

[BlooInBloo]

1. Nope. I like Clinton less because of Clinton's behavior.

[ORDem]

97. Agree. I was so excited about her candidacy last year. Then she started showing her true colors.

Sad, really. I would love to have a woman as President, but I can't stomach her RW-ish campaign now.

:dem:

[anonymous171]

2. No. I highly doubt whether Clinton actually thinks like her supporters do.

That would be very, very scary.

[dkf]

3. I guess when the candidate herself does things that are way worse than any supporter could do

how can her supporters on DU worsen my opinion?

[blm]

4. imo, it doesn't make sense that anyone would let a stranger effect their vote

or their own opinions about a lawmaker - especially if you trust the research you've done on the lawmakers you are posting in favor of or against.

[Sparkly]

5. Nevertheless, I'd venture to say some believe they're here to "argue for" their favored candidate.

If they believe their statements have the power to affect others' views in a positive way, isn't it conceivable to them that their statements may have the power to affect others' views in a negative way?

Or, do they believe they don't have the power to affect others' views in any way at all?

[Lerkfish]

6. its possible to dislike both the candidate and her supporters for their seperate

actions.

I don't necessarily hold one responsible for the other, but I find both outrageously distasteful in their own rights.

[Sparkly]

7. So that would be a "no."

[Lerkfish]

61. correct, but it was a distinction I wanted to make:

just because I don't judge the candidate by her supporters, it doesn't mean I give the supporters a free pass to be just as annoying as she is.

[Sparkly]

63. I'm sure nobody gives "free passes" for annoyance, from any camp.

[HooptieWagon]

8. Other

While I couldn't possibly have a more negative opinion of clinton, her supporters substantiate and reinforce that negative opinion. IOW, the hilliary supporters don't make me have a worse opinion, but do make it impossible for my opinion of her to improve.

[Sparkly]

14. On the flip side of that, are there things Obama supporters could do

to make it possible for others' opinions of Obama to improve? Or not?

[HooptieWagon]

45. On DU, Obama supporters outnumber HRC supporters about 85-15

based on most DU polls. Given those numbers, I suppose it is inevidible that there would be a few Obama supporters who are over the top with their in-your-face and gloating style. That doesn't help, but the vast majority of Obama supporters are civil and accurate in their comments. Contrast with the lies, smears, and name-calling from a very large percentage of the 15% HRC supporters, and its quite clear to me where the negativity is. Keep in mind that a large percentage of the granite chicklets have dropped on Clinton supporters - and I think the mods have based that solely on the BB rules, not a strategy of silencing Clinton supporters.

[Sparkly]

51. I don't see it that way, myself.

I think it'd be a good idea for Obama supporters to tone down the attacks, frankly.

[emilyg]

85. Absolutely.

[stillcool]

23. I thought that too for a minute...

but then when I read caustic replies I'm aware that these people are doing what they do, for the sole purpose of starting a fire. It's just like the talking heads. I think that people believe that verbal missiles are the way to play politics, and that they would behave that way regardless of the candidate.

[bain_sidhe]

9. No, however it has made me

more reluctant to commit to working "shoulder to shoulder" with some of them in the General.

Some of these people make my skin crawl from the safe remove of cyberspace. DOn't think I'd want to be in the same room with them, let alone canvassing a neighborhood.

[Sparkly]

12. That's part of what I'm wondering.

I think there can be a sense of "I just don't want to sit in that cheering section."

[panader0]

10. Not really

But I'm glad that the Duer's I respect the most are also Obama supporters.

[juno jones]

11. They damn themselves from their own mouths

The supporters are fly-and-anchovy frosting on the cake.

[stillcool]

13. No. Time and events..

have formed my opinion. And my opinion of supporters is based on the words they themselves choose to use. The behavior they themselves exhibit.

[Sparkly]

15. But I wasn't asking your opinion of the DUers.

Rather, of whether they have affected your view -- feelings, thoughts -- of the candidate they support.

[stillcool]

30. I guess there is no way to say...

for sure what went into the mix to hone my opinion as it is today. But the thing is, the anger inside of me started so early in this campaign season, and it was the words and actions of the Campaign. Now, whether or not hurtful and harmful comments ratcheted that up a notch..I can't really say.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Yes. I find the behavior of a vocal minority of Obama supporters influences my opinion of him.

It's not fair but it's honest.

Excepting some of his supporters and his position on health care, there's a lot to like.

[Sparkly]

17. Thanks for being honest.

Is there something that minority could do, or stop doing, that would change that?

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. Yes. If "Barry" is off limits, then so should "fucking whore".

I'm going to vote for the nominee, regardless, but many of the "ignorant white fucks and Hillary supporters" may not be as committed.

[Political Heretic]

18. DUers don't affect my view of EITHER candidate. That's just stupid.

[Sparkly]

20. It doesn't have to be rational.

I used the word "view" intentionally, rather than "feelings" or "thoughts" or "opinions."

[BlooInBloo]

32. Anyone who refuses to vote for the better candidate because ppl on the internet were mean...

... to them is a fucking jackass.

[Sparkly]

40. Doesn't necessarily mean they'd change their vote.

Just their view.

[BlooInBloo]

41. Ah. Well if you so strongly disassociate vitew from vote, then remind me...

... what the point of asking about their view is again?

[Sparkly]

44. Good grief.

Why the snark?

It can impact people's motivation to work for a campaign, write letters, make calls, host fundraisers, persuade others, etc. I think it'd be better to maximize that grassroots energy than not to, and establish unity as much as possible.

[BlooInBloo]

58. lol! The same logic applies. Not making calls on behalf of the best candidate...

... because someone on the internet was mean....

Egads we're a stupid, stupid country.

[Sparkly]

59. I'm just asking the question.

Not characterizing or judging people one way or another. But if you find that more useful, suit yourself.

[Frances]

19. I didn't vote because neither choice reflects my view.

The supporters of Obama have really turned me off. However, I support Obama himself completely.

[Sparkly]

21. That'd be a "no," no?

[KoKo]

22. You are talking about the "Hill Bot vs. Obamites" or the "Obamites vs. Hillbots."

Ayyyyyyyyyy It's really bad... It's all sports. I hate sports these days because it's as FAKE as our Elections and Primary Battles.

It's really all the same. Find a Team...pit it against another Team and get a bunch of Marketing Professionals and McCorporate Media Guru's in the battle then bring in the GLOBALISTS and WALL ST...and you've GOT A MATCH!

:puke:

[Sparkly]

25. Yeah, it is like that.

I'm thinking about how you get those two teams onto the same team.

I would think that if Winning Team needed Losing Team to join them, they'd act accordingly. Unless they don't believe they're Winning Team, or that they do need Losing Team, or that Losing Team is comprised of human beings.

I remember posting a poll what seems like ages ago about how people determined which candidate they preferred, and it was ALL about "issues." Ha! When's the last time an issue cropped up?

[KoKo]

47. Good Points...would that folks would read your post about this..........n/t

[zalinda]

79. Back in Feb before Edwards left. n/t

[depakid]

24. To some extent, supporter behavior does say something about a candidate

and can and should influence how we think about the campaign:

[Sparkly]

27. Arghhh!!!!

Every time I see that picture my blood pressure goes up!!!

(It's okay, though -- my blood pressure is usually 80/60, so it just goes up to normal.)

[Two Americas]

26. yes, of course

The following a candidate generates, and their thinking and behavior is as important, if not more so that the supposed qualities of the candidate - which are mostly a matter of celebrity and marketing.

This is a representative democracy, and we are not looking for a dictator or a guru, nor are we interviewing a candidate as CEO of a corporation nor granting a chair at the university. Nor are we selecting merchandise off the shelf. We seem to have forgotten what a leader is, what that means.

[Sparkly]

29. Do you think both Obama and Clinton supporters here are representative of the candidates' campaigns?

Or of the candidates themselves?

[HooptieWagon]

48. Obama-no , Clinton - yes

I have not perceived any link between Obama supporters and the Obama Campaign. There are several Clinton supporters here posting talking points generated at HIs44 and the other HRC website... and while they may not be financially supported or compensated by her campaign, it is pretty clear they are working with the HRC campaign - at least through back-door channels. A classic astro-turfing campaign, IMO.

[Two Americas]

56. yes, without any doubt

DU absolutely accurately reflects the campaigns, and accurately reflects the thinking within the liberal activist community. People are actually more honest and less inhibited here than in real life, so there is no better place to see the truth. When I go to activist meetings of line, they are a wishy washy and polite version of DU, but from reading DU I know what those activists are really thinking better than they do.

[emilyg]

86. I hope not.

[tammywammy]

28. No, of course not

And the day that I let anonymous posters on an internet message board effect how I feel like voting in a real election, is the day I leave DU.

[Sparkly]

31. Doesn't necessarily mean it'd change someone's vote.

But, it might alter their motivation to work for the candidate, persuade others toward him/her, etc.

[tammywammy]

37. Same deal

I don't apply anything that anyone on here says to the candidates themselves.

[tularetom]

33. Some DU'ers I have always respected

turned out to be the most rabid, foaming at the mouth partisans you could imagine. Consequently I probably don't respect THEM as much as I once did. But my opinion of the candidates has been formed by my own impressions, and my reactions to things they have said, and things their supporters and family members have said.

But I don't think my opinion of a candidate has ever been affected by anything a DU'er said about them. Hell, I'm becoming fairly partisan myself although I hope I don't reach the foaming at the mouth stage.

[Sparkly]

38. Yeah, that's unfortunate.

Maybe there's both an upside and a downside to DUers being unaffected by each other! :)

[crankychatter]

34. Johnny's dog bit me so I beat Johnny's ass

People that whine incessantly about the typings of random others on some obscure website... drumming up drama... then posting polls about it?

actually DO piss me off

[Sparkly]

36. um... what?

Which "people" are those? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

35. It hasn't influenced me at all.

[Raine]

39. No...that would be a very ignorant way

of deciding who gets support.

[Sparkly]

Doesn't have to be a matter of intellect or reasoning

It can be subjective, as well. Also doesn't necessarily mean someone would change their vote, but could impact motivation to work for a campaign, persuade others, etc.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. There are rabid asshats on both sides,

and I'll be damned if I let the bad manners of a few knuckleheads on an Internet message board affect my political decisions.

Only the behavior of the candidate herself and her campaign has altered my view of her for the worse. Her ill-mannered supporters, as well as Obama's ill-mannered supporters, are mostly occupying my Dungeon of Ignorage.

[Sparkly]

43. "Dungeon of Ignorage" - ha!

I should probably start one of those, too. :hi:

[ecdab]

46. If you knowingly walk into an echo chamber and allow it to shape your view

- you have some personal challenges to overcome.

[Sparkly]

49. Perhaps, but I'm not really asking for opinions about those who might answer "yes."

Or "no." Just whether or not there is such an effect.

[ecdab]

54. That was a long way of me saying no

when speaking for myself, but also saying that - yes - some not so brilliant people and/or overly emotional people do actually let an echo chamber affect their perception of politics. Most of them are called Republicans, but clearly some are called Democrats as well.

How very elitist of me.

[Sparkly]

55. People don't always choose their feelings.

It can be a non-rational reaction, too. People are human.

[ecdab]

64. People do get to to choose if they allow their feelings to overwhelm

the rational perception of a situation - simply put, they get to choose if they think or not. Initial reactions are one things - but coming here time after time and allowing it to alter perceptions of reality is just a choice not to think.

[Sparkly]

66. "alter perceptions of reality"

I'm not talking about altered perceptions of reality.

[ecdab]

68. Sure you are - you asked if people had their "view" altered

and what is a view if it is not a perception. A view or a perception is either based on reality or it is based on something else. If it is based on what a bunch of people in an echo chamber are talking about - it's based on something else, and thus their view (or perception) of reality has been altered by something other than reality.

[Sparkly]

69. I intentionally used the word "view" rather than "thoughts" or "feelings"

to remain open to either or both.

Opinions, beliefs, feelings aren't necessarily based on faulty or "altered" perceptions of REALITY. It might be real for someone to dislike a candidate, to dislike their supporters, to be inspired to disengage rather than to join a group they strongly dislike and don't identify with.

I don't know why we're splitting these hairs.

[ecdab]

77. Certainly not all feelings, opinions and beliefs are based upon

faulty perceptions of reality - but I was never trying to address that. I was only addressing the question about people changing their view based upon what some people on message board said.

I also don't disagree that it is possible for people to have their view altered, and feel inspired to disengage, by something as silly as what is said on a message board - people most certainly can be silly in that manner (that's about the only way I can explain 8 years of W). But being affected by such trivial things remains a choice that an individual makes for themselves.

Strongly disliking a few posters on the Internet doesn't equate to strongly disliking everybody in a political campaign, the same applies to not identifying with a group of posters on the Internet. It requires effort and a choice to not see beyond the faulty logic required for somebody to conclude such a thing. But that certainly doesn't mean that many people are not putting forth the requisite effort to not see beyond the faults in their logic.

[Sparkly]

82. Thanks for your opinion.

And that's what it is -- an opinion.

[ecdab]

83. Yep - and remember that you asked for peoples opinions on the topic.

But it's also an easily defended opinion grounded in reality.

[Sparkly]

91. I wasn't asking for opinions about psychology

but thanks anyway.

[ecdab]

96. Has the behavior of a candidate's supporters on DU altered your view of that candidate for the worse

What is that if not a question about psychology? That is certainly the way I took it. Psychology is all about the study of such phenomena as perception, cognition, emotion, personality, behavior, and interpersonal relationships. I don't think a meaningful answer could be made to your question that didn't address psychology. In fact, I don't think any study of voting patterns is meaningful without the introduction of psychology. What sort of answers were you looking for?

[Sparkly]

103. It was a yes or no question. nt

[HooptieWagon]

50. Was your opinion of Tonya Harding

influenced by the actions of her husband and Jeff Gillooly? Seems like an appropriate analogy.

[Sparkly]

52. oooookay....

Actually, I was never that concerned about Tonya's fans uniting with Nancy's fans in order to preserve the foundations of the nation, so I don't think it is such a great analogy.

[IsItJustMe]

53. No, I am firmly based in reality.

[Tresalisa]

57. Nope.

The discussions here are all part of politics among people who are passionate about their candidate, IMO.

[mcctatas]

60. No...

if either candidate knew what assholes some of their supporters were they'd be ashamed...I hope....

[PatGund]

62. I wasn't impressed with Sen. Clinton to start with....

But certain of her followers here have really soured me further on her.

If worse comes to worse and she gets the nomination, I'll vote for her. I don't guarantee I won't say "I told you so" when McCain hands her her ass in November, but I'll vote for her

[zalinda]

81. Funny that's exactly the way I feel about Obama n/t

[emilyg]

87. So do I.

[Chalco]

65. Yes, Obama preaches hope and change but his

supporters preach hate and divisiveness. It makes me not believe him and to not trust him. How could he abide with this? How could his "followers"?

[Umbram]

84. Thinking isn't one of your strong suits I take it. (nt)

[emilyg]

88. Politeness isn't yours.

[Chalco]

92. ?

[AZBlue]

67. Anyone basing their vote on the behavior of a few supporters shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Sparkly]

70. For the (how many-th?) time, I'm not talking about votes.

:crazy:

[MrSlayer]

71. No. The candidate has done that all by herself.

I don't really care what her supporters have to say though it is a bit disconcerting to see Democrats embracing the gutterslime neo-con style politics of their candidate.

[Evergreen Emerald]

72. No, but it has driven me away from DU

And has driven a lot of people away from DU that thought this was a community of like-minded progressive reasonable people.

[Sparkly]

73. Understood.

:(

[swishyfeet]

75. Does it seem like Clinton supporters more likely to answer yes?

From my quick skim throught the comments so far, the only clear YES votes are from Clinton supporters.

I wonder if that's because Obama (himself) has been avoiding throwing dirt at Clinton. He's really pretty hard to hate - so the hate gets directed at his supporters.

Hillary OTOH, has been much more eager to attack, so the Obama supporters find it easy to look at her as the villain - her supporters just repeating the attacks from their candidate.

[Sparkly]

76. I guess that's one theory.

There could be others.

[Stop Cornyn]

78. I support the candidate whose GD-P supporters strike me as the least pleasant and quickest to twist

a fact so, obviously, the general answer is NO.

There have been jackass supporters of candidates who are no longer in the race. The supporters' jackassery has caused me to mourn less when their candidate folded his tent, but it hasn't caused me to hold the candidates responsible for the misconduct of their GD-P supporters.

[TML]

80. Not at all

That's what I like about being a minority. I was thrown under the bus a long time ago by the Clintons, so I knew it would happen again if I supported them this time, too.

[Milo_Bloom]

89. Anyone who says yes is lying or stupid.

Sorry, but if you base your opinion of the next potential leader of the US on the ramblings of some people on an internet message board, you are no better than the people who voted for bush because he's the kinda guy they want to have a beer with.

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. Yet, people have little problem passing judgement on people

based upon which candidate they support. Witness the "Bruce Springsteen vs Elton John" threads.

Anyone who thinks that Paul Krugman has relinquished his progressive creds because he supports the Clinton health care plan is equally stupid.

[Fluffdaddy]

93. The Obama supporters are stinking up the place, but I don't blame BO

[Buzz Clik]

94. I'm surprised at the 50+ yes votes. How could anyone be so shallow?

These are possibly the same people who are swayed by celebrity endorsements. :shrug:

[QC]

101. Like Oprah's endorsement? n/t

[Tippy]

95. I just wish the hatred was not so prevalent on DU....n/t.

[ZombieHorde]

98. No, that would be silly. Many here are just disrupter's who enjoy stirring the pot.

[Eurobabe]

99. heck no, du is not the center of the universe.

and many of us are more mature than that! :hi:

[Occam Bandage]

100. Nope. The behavior of Clinton herself has altered my view of that candidate.

[Catherina]

102. Not altered. Just reinforced since birds of a feather flock together n/t