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Anyboby watching Clark on hardball now?

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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:09 PM
Original message
Anyboby watching Clark on hardball now?
Edited on Fri Jun-25-04 06:12 PM by Anti Bush
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yup! :) nt
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We're probably the only ones...everyone must be at the movies.
Wish I was...not playing around here.

Clark was great...really laid it out on the line re: Bush...really nailed him...didn't hold back any punches. Campbell Brown was loving him and let him go on and on criticizing Bush and his policies.
Wish the whole world was watching.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Wonderful interview...
...and yes, he looked fabulous!

Gee, that 'General Dude' is wicked smart. Nailed Bush to the floor on all aspects.
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. you captured it perfectly. :) nt
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. He's pretty good, isn't he?
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. He's OUTRAGEOUSLY good.........what a wallop he would pack
as VP...He would be SO EFFECTIVE as the "explainer" of all the nuts and bolts...it would instill so much confidence into the ticket. People would just love to hear clear straight talk...I bet a lot of the "fear" crap dished out by Bushco would lose it's effectiveness if Clark were out there...................I'm praying for him to be VP
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. And just why weren't you at Regal Cinema's tonight, Missy?
LOL!
Seriously, where are you at in Tennessee?
If you need a ticket, I know where to get one. :)

A night at the movies with Moore and then to retire at the "place" with the Clarkies, the Deanies and the Kerry-ites for Wes on Hardball.

There STILL aren't any Edwards supporters around here - and there were 300 people in the crowd.

GEESCH!

Great movie. Great trouncing by the Zen Master GENERAL!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. Straight shooter, brains, credibility, experience, looks. VP material.
n/t
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hee hee... his looks
I'm in a HUGE crowd and when he comes on Hardball, everyone looks at me and says - "Yeah... Lara's still in love."

LMAO! Like I'm the ONLY female in the room who thinks he's attractive...

;)
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. BIG brains.
:toast:
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Clark is excellent when he's not on the defensive
Very impressive on Hardball, although it's Hardball Lite minus Matthews. His explanation on the failure of the Fallujah strategy, and what we should have done instead, was succinct and terrific.

Perhaps I'm overrating Clark's mediocrity during the primary season in regard to the type of VP candidate he would make. Clark's zealous supporters/apologists on DU fail to acknowledge his campaign blunders -- entering far too late, skipping Iowa, and a series of conflicting statements which kept him on the defensive throughout the debate season. I saved several debate tapes and have reviewed them. Clark is like a football team that flounders while trying to play from behind.

He was much more impressive last spring/summer, and now while promoting Kerry, than he ever was during his solo campaign. In fairness, perhaps those crowded debates simply didn't allow enough time for Clark to unleash his views. While reviewing the debates, I did notice almost every question directed to him was confrontational.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I fully concur with your last comments on the debates
Were Clark to get the VP nod it would be too blatant for the questioners to be as uneven again in their treatment of Clark relative to Cheney. A one on one format is a far cry from the crowded earlier debates that Clark was part of. Give Clark two minutes in which he is relatively free to develop his theme and he usually is devastating to the opposition.

Clark never had his own staff of dedicated political aids prior to his run for the Presidency. Our other candidates already had teams of experienced operatives around them, with foundations and relationships that went back years if not decades. Plus they got to work out many of the kinks in their campaigns in the Summer in NH and Iowa when few in the media or public were paying close attention. Clark is a very fast learner. It shows too. 9 months into active politics now he is much more at ease with the terrain.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. What Tom said...
About the debates and the staff, to which I would add:

About the debates (and applies to some interviews as well), Clark is a deep strategic thinker who doesn't like to resort to "sound-byte" answers. He's too honest to give a short quip when the question really deserves a thoughtful complex response. I may be a zealous apologist, but the fact is he does extremely well when he has adequate time to take his audience thru his thought process.

Most of his "conflicting statements" were when he tried to do the same thing with an interviewer, almost invariably a print reporter, and they reduced his comments to a sound-byte and a headline.

I don't recall any conflicting statements actually made during a debate and would appreciate an example, if that's what you meant. What I do recall is that the debate moderators would take one or two lines from a much longer article he had written or speech he had made and try to make it sound like he had changed positions, as when he was asked (twice in the same debate!) about that article he had written for the London Times. He gave the right answer, but he was on the defensive by that point and it showed. I wonder how any of the other candidates would have responded in the same circumstances?

I do agree with you that in several of the debates, but not all, the moderators were very confrontational, and seemed to dwell completely on his past statements and alleged missteps instead of asking about proposed policies and plans for what he would do as president. Now, they did this with all the candidates to some extent, but more so with Clark. Perhaps some of it was because he had no congressional record to pick apart, so they went after his past words instead, but it sure seemed to me that some were just plain flat more hostile. Jennings and Hume for example--I dunno if that's one of the debates you reviewed, but no question that it was a disaster for Clark. He did ok in most of the others, and was declared the "winner" by the talking heads after at least two that I remember.

I also noticed that they tended to treat Clark like a one-trick pony in some of the debates and tended not to ask him about domestic issues. Maybe they thought they were doing him a favor, but I don't really think that was their motive.

One last thought about the debates. Perhaps Clark's disinclination to reduce his own positions to simple one-liners is a flaw as a politician. It works well when he has some control over the time, and no one was better in the town-hall Q&A sessions. No one. He also can usually make it work in one-on-one TV interviews, where it's tougher for the interviewer to edit down his answers.

I believe the debate with Cheney will be closer to the latter than to the nine-candidate debates of the primaries. There will be time limits, but there are on TV too. They'll both have time to work thru their answers and a lot of people will be watching live. I could really see it being a lot like the Kennedy/Nixon debate, with Cheney starting to sweat. Who knows--maybe he'll resort to cussing--wouldn't that be something to see? I wonder if Clark's comment on Hardball last nite about Cheney's stress level was meant to be sort of a pointy stick in anticipation of a coming confrontation? Hmmm....

About the staff, I couldn't agree more with Tom, and would only point out that if Clark is the VP nominee, it's Kerry's campaign staff organizing the effort. So Clark's problems in organizing a staff, in hiring top-flight people, would not be a factor. There would probably be some learning curve as they adapt to Clark, but relatively little since they've been handling his appearances for Kerry since February. I would assume they've had more interaction with Clark and his people than any of the other possibles because Clark has been doing so much more.

About his "campaign blunders," I don't see how entering the campaign late and skipping Iowa could have been helped. They were mistakes in the sense that they ultimately caused his campaign to fail, but there was really no other reasonable choice at the time. In any case, they are "blunders" that could not be repeated, so they have no bearing at all on how he would do as Kerry's running mate.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. In regards to the print media
Yes, Ron Fournier treated Clark like shit, but, overall, the print media was much more fair to Clark than the talking heads who pass themselves off as serious journalists. You know, the ones who are STILL ignoring him as a possible VP candidate.

I just wanted to point that out. :)
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Don't forget Adam Nagourney
That's sort of whom I was thinking of, altho I could probably come up with others.

I've read his NYT article of Sept 19th a dozen times, and bounced it against Clark's replies on the subject and the accounts from others who were there as to what was actually said, and all I can come up with was that Nagouney knew exactly what Clark meant and chose to report it as tho he said the exact opposite. If you read closely, Nagourney's account is specifically restructured, time-line wise, to create a totally different impression than what happened. Whether his intention was to trash Clark, or just to get a headline, or both, I don't know. But the effect was devestating to the early campaign and still creates doubt about Clark's political skills and the integrity of his views.

I also find it hard to believe that people like Nedra Pickler aren't completely aware that the Drudge report of what Clark said in TN has been debunked. Again, by people who were there. And with no conflicting reports. Even Drudge removed the report from his site, but Pickler and others continue to report it. You gotta wonder why they would use Drudge as a source for anything, but when there's HARD evidence that it was all just a lie? I don't understand how they can get away with it.

I'm sure that if I thought about it, I could come up with other examples. I'm not giving the talking heads a pass by any means--they did some pretty ugly twisting of the facts as well. I'm only saying that when Clark himself has been on TV, it's harder for them to edit down his words to something damaging and untrue.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Looks like Wes was on vacation...
Looked terrific...he looked tan, rested, & ready!!
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. His nose looked sunburnt
I thought it was just bad makeup when I was watching.

I don't think he's been on vacation. He might have taken some time enroute back from Europe, but he's been pretty active at fundraisers and on TV since.

Maybe he's just been playing a lot of golf. Raising money from high-dollar donors, like at his recent DC event, might go easier with a round or two beforehand.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. His clothes are a little more snazzy, too
A tan summer suit, light blue shirt and silk dark blue/light blue boxed tie.
Clear eyes, a tan face, sunburnt nose and shiny hair.

OK - what he said about our sure failure in Iraq if we don't, as we haven't been, follow the Clark (now called the Powell) Doctrine (Clark actually wrote it when he was a White House fellow) and about how the American people are beginning to realize that Bush is not a competent leader were right on target - BUT, it's also OK that such elegant conversation was coming out of such a dreamy face. :)
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Why don't you really take a good look at him next time?
"A tan summer suit, light blue shirt and silk dark blue/light blue boxed tie.
Clear eyes, a tan face, sunburnt nose and shiny hair."
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hee hee
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Did you see him start to smile when asked about VP chances?
I was looking at the corners of his mouth and pointing at the screen going, "Look! He knows! He's got it!" Then he started laughing. Even though he's stared down dictators, he's no poker face. He's got a secret and he's not telling. I find that innate transparency refreshing.

My wife was lukewarm about him during the primaries (supported Dean), but after hearing him on Hardball trash Bush's foreign policy, she is now hoping he gets the VP spot. As she put it, "He will make an excellent VP."
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Agreed!
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. Anybody catch 'The Chris Matthew's Show'?
His weekend show, that is.

Some guy on there was yapping about how Clark lost the primary because his head is too small? What's up with that? Is this some sort of new GOP media line that will be repeated ad-nauseum if Clark gets the VP slot?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. We can only hope so.
I would love to see our opponents reduced to babbling nonsense like that. The nice thing about Republican attack dogs, sometimes they show their stripes far too clearly. No one actually likes attack dogs. One reason why Bush came close enough to steal the Election is because he managed to befuddle enough voters with his compassionate conservative, uniter not divider, humble foreign policy routines.

Bring on the right wing crazies and commentates trying to make busy talk about the shape of candidates head's while the body bags keep returning from Iraq and National Guard members keep getting yanked out of our communities and shipped overseas.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. They tried it the other way and it didn't work.
They tried to say he was an egomaniac control freak. Then you hear Clark, and he's all plain-spoken and humble. So they had to change tactics.

Limbaugh has no dirt on him, so he has to make stuff up. He tried to paint him as Dr. Strangelove, and just about ready to go off the deep end. Then you hear Clark, and he's reasonable, fair-minded and intelligent.

Did his eyes seem wild to you? Just checking. :)
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