for Clinton supporters who are celebrating

[shagsak]

It's obvious to me that many (not all) Clinton supporters seem pleased that ABC dropped the ball on the debates, and I just don't get it. The arguments I'm seeing against Obama are that he lost and couldn't handle the really tough questions. All I noticed is that he was speaking slowly and taking his time answering, and not playing into the ABC shit toss game. But otherwise do you disagree that he fielded the questions well? He didn't want to repeat what he had said before and sounded like he wanted America to do the research and not follow the media hounds and their built in bias. What's wrong with that? On the other side, Clinton came across very confident. She looked down a lot in the beginning while she was answering questions but for the most part she handled things fine. I also saw attacks from both sides but there was definitely no winner or loser IMHO. Both sides did fine.

The fact that many (again, not all) Clinton supporters are jumping on this bandwagon to insult Obama supporters because we are upset with the network doesn't make sense to me. I try to be objective and when my candidate goofs I'll be the first to admit it. I'll also admit that I will support whichever nominee remains standing after this crap fest. But to me it was so obvious what George and Charlie were doing. During and in hind sight even more so. It's almost like Fox news got the last laugh and finally got the debate aired under their own terms. That hurts more than Obama and Clinton, it hurts our party. What is the reasoning of a celebration? How can you accept what was done and shrug it off? Do you feel it didn't affect you or your candidate?

Once again the light that shows the great divide in our party burns bright. All you need is a catalyst. C&G hit their mark, and the divide is widening. If we can't come together on this issue then how are we going to ever beat the GOP machine this fall?

I apologize that I'm no journalist but I hope I've conveyed my frustrations. Also, I am definitely new here so I expect the full wrath. Go for it.

[Eurobabe]

1. Oh let them have their nanosecond of pathetic glee

It will all be over next Tuesday when Obama wins PA. :hi:

[redqueen]

2. Do you really think he'll win it?

I don't know about that.

That said, I also don't think she'll get the 19 point margin she had before she went into RW attack dog mode. :D

[AllexxisF1]

3. I do ....

I really think he is going to surprise everyone and win Penn. The Hillary will have no choice but to bow out and good riddance.

[Eurobabe]

5. I do, it will be close though...

I hear it from my boots on the ground. Forget the polls.

[shagsak]

6. I believe he will

He has proven time and again that he can handle anything you throw at him. PA will be fun to watch whatever the case.

[meow mix]

9. as Hillary Diane says "Yes Yes Yes"

he will win!

[mkultra]

19. i dont think she can win with out hitting serious numbers

Obama has a 140 delegate lead with only 566 delegates left. this means that Hillary must win 75% of the remaining vote to tie Obama.


I also don't think that the supers will go against the voters.


I think its more appropriate to ask you the same question about her?

[redqueen]

21. No... I'm talking about PA.

I thought the post I responded to was only about winning PA...

[Arrowhead2k1]

22. A single digit loss

is as good as a win for me.

[redqueen]

23. Yes... but I mean technically.

I don't think he'll actually win more votes...

[patrice]

4. He was annoyed that we were talking about perfect shit again, so he had to slow down and be careful

not to show his anger and disappointment with what was going on, while at the same time not saying anything that would give them more shit to throw.

Did you notice how he talked faster and smoother when he got to talk about the things the he IS interested in i.e. POLICY.

I love what he said about Affirmative Action, but almost no one heard it because so many were freaking out about lapel pins.

[LSparkle]

7. One glaring omission from the "gotcha" portion: Mark Penn/Colombia

The fact Gibson and Stephanopoulos didn't bring that up -- although they pelted Obama
with similar questions about his personal integrity -- shows that they weren't being
fair. I wish more of the debate had focused on issues and not on personal baggage
that may be problematic in the general election, but if they were going to dwell on
the baggage, then why did they overlook the Penn situation? The fact that he WASN'T
fired from the campaign -- only demoted -- after such an obvious conflict of interest
brings into question Hillary's ethics. Do we really want a president who DIDN'T see
this as a problem, who allowed Penn to keep his lobbying clients while working on her
campaign? Not to mention the fact that Bill Clinton has also been lobbying for the
same deal -- which Hillary opposes ... This entire situation certainly deserved a
question last night but Charlie and George were suspiciously silent about that ...

[Andy823]

25. I was ticked off about that also.

Not on word about Peen, or Bill and their connections to Colombia, not one! I also noticed that when Obama answered them on the BS issues, they almost always came back with a "but", and kept on the same subject. Not so with Hillary on the Bosnia thing! They let her spin it off and that was it. It was obvious what was going on, and instead of calling it a debate, they should have called it a "hit job" on Obama!

Of course Hillary was happy, of that I am sure!

[Shakespeare]

8. Their gleeful response is completely disingenuous. It wasn't a great night for Hillary, either.

She refused to answer the question about the Ayers commutation.

She admitted she lied about the Bosnia/Sniper nonsense.

Her answer about Iran and "massive retaliation" is as disturbing as anything the warmongering GOP has said, and that's being ignored. It was as if she morphed into Cheney for a few minutes.

ABC spent almost an hour asking them about non-issues; anybody who has a real interest in seeing this country recover from the current administration should be outraged by that.

[redqueen]

12. Yeah... I'm surprised there isn't more discussion of her Iran/Israel comments...

:wtf:

[shagsak]

13. And all I get in response from Hillary supporters

is waaa waaa, my candidate got hard questions waaa... It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Shakespeare]

16. It's deeply immature, and in denial of reality.

No reasonable person could watch that debate and think that it was good on ANY level.

[BzaDem]

10. It's really simple.

For months and months and months, since before Iowa, the media was being extremely biased against Hillary. They asked her many personal-attack-style questions in several debates (especially the first MSNBC debate). Many anchors are embarrassingly biased, to the point where some of them literally shill for Obama. I actually remember "CALL MSNBC" threads during the second MSNBC debate. And what did Obama supporters do? They laughed, mocked, and waaaaambulanced Clinton supporters. And most Clinton supporters didn't care, since when 95% of the board is against you, it's pretty much expected.

That's why it's very satisfying for Clinton supporters to see Obama get similar treatment by the media on ONE night (not even as bad as Hillary's treatment over the course of the campaign). All of a sudden, the tables have turned, and the same 95% of the board who laughed at the very idea that the media could be biased against Obama, are now crying like babies, because it is against THEIR candidate now.

If the Obama supporters on DU didn't act EXACTLY like the Clinton supporters are acting now, I can almost guarantee you that there would be mutual outrage at their conduct in the debate.

[shagsak]

15. I'll accept that

I'm fairly new to the board and remember seeing some semblance of what you're talking about. But I didn't participate.

But isn't that more of a "he hit me first" reaction?

[BzaDem]

18. Yes, it is a "he hit me first" reaction.

But this isn't just he hit me once, it's that the Clinton supporters (thoe ones that weren't so disgusted that they left) were getting systematically trashed for months. It builds up.

I appreciate that you weren't part of it.

[jconner27]

11. Obama supporters: the blame someone else crowd

[Jed Dilligan]

14. Don't try to calm them down

They are actually more tolerable when they are celebrating a tiny non-victory.

(I mean the nasty ones, not all Clinton supporters--but the non-nasty ones aren't doing the bulk of the celebrating.)

[hayu_lol]

17. No one had a victory last night...

none of us heard anything from either candidate that we haven't heard before.

Time to crank up the League Of Women Voters to handle these so-called debates that bear no resemblance to actual debates.

If anyone has done a victory dance, it would be ABC for their very rich take in advertising revenue. Perhaps it is the advertisers who should be taking the vitriol for a very poor performance.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

24. Did you express this concern when Hillary Clinton was the

victim of their bias? Did you ever object to all the Obama supporter celebratory threads? It sucks, doesn't it?



NOW you want unified outrage?



NOW?? After months and months of MSM's obsessive-compulsive anti-Clinton flame fests, watching debate hosts target HRC with ridiculous, non-issue, tabloid, 'gotcha' questions, and then coming here to be taunted and insulted when WE expressed concern?



NOW???







Maybe ...





after we stop laughing. :evilgrin:

[shagsak]

26. Gotcha

Revenge. I understand totally. I don't agree, but I understand.

Do you think that all the attacks on Clinton were unfounded? How about Obama, did he deserve the criticism? When the media attacks one candidate, that candidate is responsible for his or her own defense and thats part of the political process. When they deliberately insult our party, seems like that would be the time to come together. Perhaps the history of this board has jaded that vision.

The issues (IMO) have been beaten to death on these boards. And this has turned into (for whatever reason) a pissing contest. However in the long run we're going to find out we're pissing in a glass we all have to drink.

Work up a thirst in advance.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

27. Noooooooooooooooo... no, no, no, no! Not revenge ...

a simple appreciation for Karma, the great equalizer. :hippie: