Hillary leads ** "Million Mom March AGAINST Guns " !***

[bvar22]

I wonder if all those "patriotic" rural Pennsylvania gun owners know this:

May15, 2000

"The Million Mom March was preceded by a morning rally on the south lawn of the White House hosted by President Clinton and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton. Arguing against claims that a gun registration law would violate the Second Amendment to the Constitution, Clinton compared guns to automobiles.

"Well, the Supreme Court says there's a constitutional right to travel," Clinton said. "But we license car owners, and we register cars, and we have speed limits, and we have child safety restraint laws, and we have seat belt laws ... When's the last time you heard somebody stand up and give a speech about the eminent evils of car control?"


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/05/15/million.moms/index.html

NOTE: The article is not clear whether the above quote was directly from Bill or Hillary.
Both were at the podium, and both were advocating gun registration and stricter gun control.

The above Hillary was NOT the same Hillary who was pandering to Gun Owners in Pennsylavnia over the weekend. Hillary and The Media would have you believe that she is ardent protector of Free Guns for Everyone.....yeehaw!

(http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/hillary-doesnt-think-pennsylvania.html)

Does she know Charlton Heston is dead and can't endorse her?
Does Hillary think Pennsylvania voters are stupid?


Special thanks to TahitiNut for the cool HTML billboard.

[tekisui]

1. The thing is, she seems to be seeking the repuke vote.

This is the Democratic Primary.

[appal_jack]

44. And THIS Democrat upholds the Second Amendment

First off, let me state categorically and unequivocally that I will vote for the Democratic nominee. Obama will get my vote in the upcoming NC primary, and I very much look forward to him being the nominee, and then taking a presidential oath to protect, defend, and uphold the Constitution on 1/20/09.

Secondly, I of course am familiar with several of Obama's pro-extreme-gun-control statements in favor of a handgun ban, etc. that, in my mind, fail to uphold the Second Amendment with anywhere near the necessary determination and vigor that an ideal presidential candidate should. So both of the potential Democratic nominees are having to backpedal a bit now that they are on the national stage, with more than just Cook County or even NY state to speak to. The fact is that a solid majority of Americans do not want their 2nd Amendment rights further eroded.

But as usual, Hillary's backpedaling strikes me as more opportunistic, less genuine, and basically more sure to piss off everyone (RKBA'ers and gun-grabbers alike). But even more importantly, the Democratic Party platform now states that "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms..." So, in fact, the pro-RKBA stance that both Obama and Clinton are being forced to at least mouth a bit is not only consistent with our Constitution, but with our Party.

I own at least three (maybe 4 depending on the exact wording) rifles that an Assault Weapons Ban (such as McCarthy-1022) would prohibit. I am not interested in seeing such a misguided policy move forward, ever again. As I said above, the Democrats have my vote this year. But if they start monkeying with the 2nd Amendment after their hoped-for victory, they just might lose me. At the very least, I would start channeling money and energy toward pro-RKBA-causes, when I would much rather channel that time and funds toward enacting universal health care, substantial environmental restoration, sustainable energies, etc.

So what's the problem with a Democrat supporting the right to keep & bear arms? Are there really fellow Democrats who would cast-aside my support and the support of thousands of others like me? Whether we target shoot, or hunt, or collect historical militaria, or just want to be ready for that ever-more-plausible SHTF possibility, we lawful and peaceable Americans who are firearms owners are a significant population. We are ready to support and uphold the 1st, 4th, 5th,...9th, 10th, 14th, and all other right-enshrining Amendments in our Constitution. Don't you want us on your side??? Is your support in upholding the Second Amendment too much to ask for in such an alliance???

-app

[slackmaster]

49. Lots of Democrats in states like PA and IN vote their gun rights

They will not be fooled by this foolery.

[tularetom]

2. Kewl - you done good diggin this out

BTW if she really posed for that pic I wonder if she would even know she's holding a flintlock rifle that uses black powder and takes about 30 seconds to load tamp point and fire. She probably would claim she shot a duck with it.

[IntravenousDemilo]

3. In that case, it looks like someone may have to pry the nomination "from her cold, dead hands".

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

[L0oniX]

9. LMAO

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. I think she is losing her mind, really!

she is doing really strange things!

[nolabels]

23. Maybe she is thinking we will all lose ours first

If witnessing comedy is how losing one's mind comes about then it might just be working :rofl:

[PoliticalAmazon]

5. Good find. I've recommended and bookmarked it for future reference. Thanks! n/t

[Leftist Agitator]

6. Did she crawl out of her duck blind to stage an anti-gun protest?

Just sayin'...

[cbayer]

7. Did I miss something? Are we against gun registration? nt.

[bvar22]

12. No, but we ARE against hypocrisy....

...and pathetic, transparent, chameleon pandering.

Which Hillary will we see tomorrow?

[cbayer]

25. Same one you saw today and yesterday and the day before that.

Same one you will probably hate no matter what. Just my guess.

I don't see any hypocrisy in supporting people's right to have firearms and their obligation to be registered.

[bvar22]

27. Hillary didn't say anything about....

I didn't see Hillary say anything about the obligation to register firearms today.

Please post the quote where she mentioned the "obligation to register their firearms" to the Pennsylvania hunters.

[cbayer]

29. Not my point.

The march you refer to was about registration not about abolishing firearms. Show me where she said today that registration is off the table. She has not abandoned any previous position. She doesn't advocate gun abolition, just gun control. I find that something difficult to argue against.

[appal_jack]

46. I am against gun registration.

See my post upthread for more details...

-app

[cbayer]

50. Ok, I read it.

Admittedly, I know little about this topic. Your response is well written, emphatic and logical, even though I instinctively do not agree with it.

However, it does not address my question about registration. I would value an honest explanation of why you reject registration.

[appal_jack]

52. thanks & more

cbayer,

Thanks for being willing to hear-out a viewpoint different than your own. It is through discussions such as this that we Democrats might find some common ground: an outcome I very much hope for.

Why do I oppose registration? Well, for starters, any and all government lists can be problematic. For example, I work in a forestry-related field in western North Carolina. One of the most promising (and yet also historically rooted) non-timber-forest crops is simulated-wild ginseng (i.e.- ginseng cultivated under natural forest shade so that it very much resembles wild ginseng, which has basically been over-harvested to the point of extreme rarity). In the interests of conserving remnant populations of wild ginseng (a good cause) and also monitoring the flow of traded ginseng (a cause I am less enthusiastic about...), the NC Dept. of Ag. requires all ginseng dealers to be registered. Well, of course the list of registered 'sang dealers is a public document, and there have been cases of criminals using this list for targeting robberies. Yes, by virtue of being on this (nobly-oriented, for-the-good-of-conservation) list, ginseng dealers are easily identified as people who could have $75,000 or more of easily-fenced, dried ginseng root in their homes or cars.

I could easily imagine that a list of gun-owners could have similar unintended consequences (maybe not robberies, but who knows? guns are valuable...). But what concerns me more is the sense of creeping fascism here in the US. I was cutting my political teeth back when Reagan and Ollie North were developing activist-concentration-camp-imprisonment-contingency-plans in the case of a (widely opposed) possible US invasion of Sandinista Nicaragua. Since then, things have mostly gotten worse for us US citizens. Given that the one post-Reagan Democratic president we have had (Big Dawg Clinton) failed to investigate, expose, or prosecute these plans for Martial Law and related Reagan Admin. criminal acts (Iran Contra, BCCI, etc.), I have very little faith in any government as sole and final guarantor of my (and my neighbors') rights. If plans for Martial Law move forward again (under B*sh, or any subsequent criminal), I don't want the feds to know exactly which guns are where. Instead, I prefer that any potential oppressor fear the possibility of a gun behind every blade of grass...

-app

[cbayer]

54. The point about government lists is equally disturbing to me.

If you don't mind, I am going to PM you my response, because it will be fairly personal.

[slackmaster]

48. Many of us, including me, are against gun registration

:hi:

[babylonsister]

8. REC'D, and Brilliant. Thank you so much! I knew she was going to be

in trouble-HA! :thumbsup:

[anonymous171]

10. This needs to be airdropped on rural PA.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Caption for the bottom pic:

'I pried this from Charlton Heston's cold, dead hands!'

[MannyGoldstein]

13. As Always, She's For AND Against EVERYTHING

And she's so darned good at it - it almost worked.

[eridani]

14. She made sense back then

Wish she still did. Her quote is a very good summary of my own feelings.

[yellowcanine]

15. Nothing backfires as much as a pander that doesn't ring true.

As soon as I heard about Clinton's little gun pander I knew it could not work for her.

[Kaleva]

16. While I don't think highly of Hillary....

and voted for "uncommited" in the Michigan primary, I think Hillary's current statements on gun control are very similiar to the views she expressed back in 2000.

[ampad]

17. You should send this to Olbermann

K&R

[eleny]

18. Voops!

[City Lights]

19. Great find, bvar22!

:thumbsup:

[backscatter712]

20. If Hillary by some miracle got the nomination...

You know Rove's swiftboating machine's going to bring this up.

It'll be the same as with Kerry - "She was against it before she was for it!" "She's a flip-flopper!"

[guruoo]

21. Bush changed everything when it comes to guns and Democrats

If you don't believe me, try throwing up a post calling for gun registration.

[Kaleva]

22. I don't think it was just Bush

I think that many high level Dems have come to the conclusion that adopting the Brady Campaign position on gun control is a loser.

[GrandmaJones7]

30. Its simple, really -

Brady's lied to us all with their double-speak about "common sense gun laws" when what they REALLY want is: total ban on guns a-la Japan.

"The Brady Campaign or The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence or The Brady Campaign united with the Million Mom March was founded in 1974 and joined with The National Council to Ban Handguns (NCBH)."

There's nothing "reasonable" to a gun-owner about banning his (or her) ability to have a gun. We no longer need Brady's lies! Hasn't she done ENOUGH damage to the party?!? On top of that, gun laws got lax under bush AND crime went down. Brady's bull don't fly.

DUMP BRADY!

[guruoo]

34. I didn't mean Bush influence, I ,meant fear ...

of fascism, and as a response to a perceived left-right arms gap that only
served to embolden the right to further excess.

In recent years lefties I know that previously would never dream of ever owning
a gun started taking firearms courses, and patronizing gun shows.

So this is why I say 'Bush changed everything'.
Today, Brady Bill is a loser. Big time.

[Archnemesis]

24. The march wasn't about hunting

She supports hunting righs, which is different to carrying guns on the street.

[bvar22]

26. Hunting Rights....as long as you register and license ....

..ALL of your firearms, AND your firearms meet the Government's specifications.

Did she tell the rural hunters in Pennsylvania that?

Didn't think so.

[Kaleva]

31. That's the fine print

As I mentioned in another post in this thread, it appears her views on gun control haven't changed much over the years. Hillary's support of a tougher AWB law would essentialy ban many rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting today.

[benEzra]

32. Problem is, only 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners is a hunter...

and she promised just last week to ban the most popular target rifles in America. That doesn't position her well to take advantage of the recent dustup.

[PseudoIntellect]

28. When was the last time you went hunting, Hillary?

Who cares, I'm trying to make a point here that I'm a spirited hunter and gun-supporter, how much I actually am a spirited hunter and gun-supporter is completely irrelevant to that!

[mod mom]

33. I wish we could get this to Keith Olbermann. Political Expediency like her stance on NAFTA.

[AllentownJake]

35. Sigh

Has she forgotten there is such a thing as the Internet and that past things you do and say are recorded very easily on this fabulous tool.

Its 1996 anymore, when are they going to learn.

[knixphan]

36. tyler durden syndrome.

gotta be split personality.

[grantcart]

37. where is the media on this?

[merh]

38. that was so 2000

we are talking this year (well, this month, well this week) she is now a gun nut that loves to kill ducks.

get with the time, stop trying to use her past against her, it doesnt' matter :sarcasm:

[meow mix]

39. K&R

[mmonk]

40. Sssshhhh!

They will find out a lot of this is political theatre and manufactured controversy.

[meow mix]

41. im sure she'll discuss this with her new NRA buddies?

:shrug:

[BeyondGeography]

42. That was soooooooooo then

[L0oniX]

43. Mean while ....she has body guards with guns and no doubt has them on the home front too.

Hillaripocrite

[K Gardner]

45. K&R

[ElboRuum]

47. You know...

This is why the DLC is a joke and its candidates are so abysmal. They are about 15 years behind the times. 15 years ago, news travelled more slowly than it does today because the modern incarnation of the internet was not yet present. In an age when information is gathered, published, and accessed at ludicrous speed, with so many people having access to both the consumption of information and the means to publish information at a moment's notice, it is still difficult to believe that the DLC and its candidates believe that the "one-face, two-face" routine won't get called out 15 minutes after it happens.

Of course, the DLC is also still under the impression that K Street is where the "magic" happens, too, missing the memo that media disinformation, political black ops, etc. is also being undermined by the internet as well.

So yeah. Hillary's shit is easily explained by the fact that she's running a campaign more than a decade out of date.

[Hugabear]

51. Quit using Rovian Right-Wing tactics!

You know that you're not allowed to use anything from Hillary's past against her! That's so right-wing. Shame on you!

:sarcasm:

[AtomicKitten]

53. "Does Hillary think Pennsylvania voters are stupid?"

She's counting on it.

[Unbowed]

55. She is a strange on. First the sniper fire & now the Annie Oakley act.

Doesn't she think this stuff is going to come out?

Or does she really have severe memory lapses?

Either way, not good.