Hillary has lost Pennsylvania.

[kentuck]

The people in PA knew what Obama was talking about. They know that Republican politicians have used the gun rights issue, as well as abortion and family values, to manipulate voters nationwides since the days of Ronald Reagan. They will not fall for the whiskey-swilling or the gun-toting antics of some politicians. They will see thru it. PA will be the end of the road for Hillary. The people of PA may not be "bitter" but they are smart enough to know that we need change. They do not want 8 more years of Clintons or another 3rd term for George W Bush. They will figure it out. This will turn out to be the biggest blunder of the Clinton campaign. Say goodnight Gracie...

[MonkeyFunk]

1. LOL

that's funny.

[dkf]

2. Give them a little time for what he said to sink in...

and give them more Hillary happy happy talk.

The disgust will grow.

[Hepburn]

3. I love to see Hillbots whistling past the cemetery!

Makes me smile! :evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

11. ha , from someone who has stepped over her grave for MONTHs!!

[AllentownJake]

33. and

people have been jumping on his grave since September.

[Hepburn]

53. LOL....

...IGNORED said something to me??? :hi:

[kentuck]

4. Keep your eyes on the polls...

It may not be so funny about a week from this Wednesday?

[truebrit71]

38. Almost as funny as having your job shipped overseas courtesy of Nafta right?

Oh, wait...those people aren't bitter, they're "happy" and "optimistic"...

Whatever...:eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

51. Well, Obama himself thinks he expressed himself poorly

but if you think calling voters "bitter" is a winning strategy, go for it. I'm still waiting for the Obama "God Damn America" bumperstickers.

[Hepburn]

55. I hear Cafe Press is putting them out...

...right after the "Hillary survived sniper fire in Bosnia" bumper stickers.

[truebrit71]

56. You keep believing that what Obama saidwasn't right ..and I'll dodge the sniper bullets..

...and start work on the "I won't vote for the wife of Monica's boyfriend" bumperstickers...

M'kay?

:eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

75. Be as childish and dickish as you want

[acrosstheuniverse]

5. Don't count on it

We are outnumbered by idiots in this country who believe everything the media says. The media covered Hillary's speeches endlessly before she won Ohio and the popular vote in Texas. Same thing happened in 2004 when the media covered Bush's entire speeches all the time and rarely showed Kerry's rallies in the Fall campaign. People say Kerry lost it due to the swift-boating but I believe it was so close he could have won the damn election had the M$M not been so fucking biased against showing him nearly as much as Bush.

[Frank Booth]

31. I agree. The media's really pushing Hillary these days.

CNN has been all about Hillary since the beginning, but now the bias is so evident it's ridiculous. I think a big part of it is ratings, since if they can keep portraying the Dem nomination as close, nasty and vicious more people will tune in.

[Labors of Hercules]

50. They push her only as far as it will keep things close.

Their goal is to keep her in it so they can maintain ratings. They don't give a fuck if she has no way to win and is only tearing Obama down. In fact that's what they want. (makes for a tighter race in November).

Until the people of this nation wake up and become literate to the media, this will always be a problem.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. I don't know. I still think she'll win PA

Just not by the large margin she needs. This may help her gain a couple of points or so there, but it won't be the big push over the hump she needs.

[kentuck]

9. I think this will backfire on her big time...

She looks fake in her charges of "elitism" against Obama...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. I think it will backfire on her overall

I don't expect to go over well with the majority of Democrats in America. She's losing white women in PA right now due to her campaign methods. I imagine this will send a few more of them over to the other side. What I'm not sure of is how big of an issue guns are to rural PA Democrats. I suppose I'm grading rural PA Dems on a curve against rural Texas Democrats. I could well be wrong.

[I Have A Dream]

72. Guns are a HUGE issue to rural Pennsylvanians. (Including Democrats.)

Actually, I live in the suburbs, and its a big issue even to suburbanites.

[EFerrari]

7. That's what I think,too. n/t

[debbierlus]

8. I SO hope she loses PA. It would be the death knell for her candidacy

[DemGa]

10. Well, you've got to wade through a whole lot of "what Obama really meant"

to get there, but thanks for the laugh!

[rodeodance]

13. that WORT game gets boring.

[Yael]

22. WORT?

WORM?

[rodeodance]

46. what obama really thinks.

[2rth2pwr]

70. What Obama Really Meant.

[kentuck]

14. Over 100,000 Republicans have changed Parties..

I doubt that they changed to vote for Hillary Clinton?

[AllentownJake]

24. Lower than that

I think it was 68,000 according to the Philly papers. 3.2 million multiplied by 2%

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/20080407_ap_pavoterregistrationapproachesrecordlevel.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Sadly, I don't.

[I Have A Dream]

73. They may have if what they're trying to do is have Clinton be McCain's opponent...

in the general election.

I believe that some people who have switched really are just disgusted with the Republican party. However, there's also a group who are trying to help the Republicans in the end.

It really is scary how much Republican Kool-Aid many people in Pennsylvania have drank. Even now, most of the Republicans that I know don't see anything wrong with what has happened over the last 7+ years. It's not just people with working-class jobs; it's also people with professional jobs. :(

[tekisui]

52. Us bitter folks don't care.

We don't need to wade. When Hillary, McCain and the M$M gng up, we know it is against the People.

[nebula]

12. Well she certainly lost her 20-point advantage

Her dignity as well.

[baldguy]

15. Hillary supporters who think rural voters care about the shit she's handing out

Are elitist snobs who think "rural" means "dumb".

[saltpoint]

16. She may win in Pennsylvania, although likely by a lot less than polls showed

her leading it by a few weeks ago. I don't think the "bitter" dust-up is going to be a chief concern for her supporters inbetween Pittsburgh and Philadelphia; I think those people were already in a majority for Clinton, although there is some bleed away from her in some of the college towns, and the level of activity for Obama is significant and considerable. Mid-state Democrats had mostly made their minds up, IMO, prior to, during, and following the recent comments, and quite a few may even endorse Obama's words. They get to vote who whom they wish but their prior/during/following loyalty to HClinton does not preclude the value and accuracy of Obama's observations.

Obama will run strongly in greater Pittsburgh and greater Philadelphia. If he loses in PA, it will be by less than originally imagined, and the momentum will be his for a huge victory in North Carolina and very possibly a 1968 Robert F. Kennedy-kind of win in Indiana.

The rationale for HClinton as the nominee is considerably thinner now than ever and North Carolina (and very possibly Indiana) are going to erode it further, no matter a win (likely more modest than first predicted) in Pennsylvania.

There remain also public (or private) words from presidents Gore and Carter, two sons of the South, one driven from office by a nation who loved a brainless but affable Dad figure and the other cheated from office by a treacherous fool. I believe at their deep hearts Gore and Carter will endorse the candidate who will best represent and unite the party for the general in November, and that candidate is going to be Barack Obama.

"Elite" means 'best.' We've experienced the opposite in the Oval Office for 8 years. "Best" works for me.

Hillary Clinton might well have won this nomination if she'd collected a far better staff, worked some significant ideas for presentation to the electorate, and had highlighted rather than abandoned the Hillary Clinton of IT TAKES A VILLAGE. She did none of those things.

[kentuck]

20. Also, we should not assume that everyone in the middle of PA..

is a Deerhunter..?

[saltpoint]

23. Absolutely right. Or a duck hunter.

Senator Obama may do better than current polling suggests.

[AllentownJake]

27. or that

the Deerhunters are a large swath of the PA Democratic party. I know of only one democratic deer hunter in the people I know and he was going for Clinton before this.

[AllentownJake]

17. Nobody

Knows what the hell is going to happen here. There are so many variables in the equation that aren't being captured by the polling. 10% of the registered voteres aren't being reached by polls and nobody knows who these people are or why they just registered or switched their registration.

My hometown paper endorsed him today and nobody was expecting that here.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a.6348993apr13,0,1150717.story

[Yael]

18. Actually, many of us here are bitter

[rodeodance]

47. It shows in the many smears. demeaning comments about Hillary.

[juajen]

21. You're dreamin'!

I was born and grew up in the rural south, and I can tell you church and hunting were never connected to bitterness over our very hard lives. They were solace to the weary, and helped us so much that a bowl of butterbeans with homegrown tomatoes and cucumbers and a pan of cornbread were a manna from heaven.

Face it, he really showed his true colors. No fabrication necessary, and I don't believe Hillary had anything to do with it. Frankly, that makes it even more damning. His own words, and recorded by a supporter, and seen first in Huffington Post.

[kentuck]

26. That's your interpretation...

We shall see.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. PA is not the "rural south".

Many many stories have been told by people who grew up poor but who usually note that they never considered themselves to be poor because somehow, their families and friends came together to help them make due. This is not what is being disputed.

The issue goes beyond the superficialities and distortions that the Clinton/McLame cabal's faux outrage is trying to focus on. It is the message that people gave up on government because by the design of the Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Administrations, government gave up on them.

Franklin Roosevelt took government to new levels of service by bringing the people into government to serve, which helped the nation get back on its feet. Reagan began chipping away at this, as did Bush Sr. And with the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act under the Clinton Administration, one of the last of the Depression era safeguards was discarded - all to promote the corporatism that the Clintons embrace. Bush Jr. and his corporatist repukes, along with the DLC, then proceeded to implement the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned about, and milked the country dry, while putting us $6 trillion dollars MORE into debt since 2000.

But the Roosevelt revolution can happen again when people wake up and vote. Not for those who support contracting out or outsourcing jobs overseas like ALL the previous administrations back to Reagan, but for those who reject the opportunists.

[ima_sinnic]

48. "recorded by a supporter" -- I've got a bridge to sell you

you're apparently so gullible you'll believe ANYTHING.

you better get updated, you're out of the loop. that lie of Hillary's was busted a long time ago, within a few hours of the "bombshell"--there was a major thread about it here. That "Obama supporter" is a Hillary goon who has contributed money to Fred Thompson. The whole thing was contrived by the manipulative, sneaky, duplicitous, snake that is Hillary. It was released earlier than she'd wanted, because she had to do damage control over those remarks about money from Colombia (remember her nervous laugh and inability to answer a simple question, because she couldn't get all her lies straight and didn't have Mark Penn handy to tell her what to say? remember that?--how convenient that this nonissue of "bitter" has come up Just Now) and the money for Bill's library and what-not--all those other areas where she's shown she's just an unprincipled, scheming, payola-grubber whose first allegiance is to HRC and nobody else.

[stillcool]

57. I think it has been proven time and time..

again that due to the access to information people have at their fingertips, we can make our own minds up about who said what, and what we perceive was meant. Old-time-hit-& smear pieces that are based on bullshit have no shelf life. You can not assert the populace of a state will react in kind to a manufactured media event. There is too much evidence that when one does that, they are merely attempting to project their own judgmental opinions on individuals they know nothing about.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. The first phase of the PA Change mentality happened when

the voters of my state threw the RW nutcase Rick Santorum the hell out of office in 2006. THAT, if anything, should be a clue for where the people of PA stand.

[ecstatic]

29. I saw part of the clip again. You could hear a pin drop when Clinton

made her statements about Obama. No claps, shouts, or applause. Of course, the crowd did clap when she mentioned the buzz word of trade or something.

[bigtree]

30. heh

myopic reasoning.

The 'blunder' was admitted by Obama. Now he's scrambling to define how he really feels about the Pennsylvania voters he believes he offended with his remarks. It's really pathetic to try and brush the controversy off on critics of his (admitted) offensive remarks, including his rival in this campaign. It's even more curious for supporters to continue to defend what he originally said by pointing to the completely different characterization he's offered.

He may have gotten it right in his clean-up remarks, but he was definitely wrong in the way he expressed himself initially. He said so.

By the way, Obama posed for the first alcohol swilling photos in this campaign. Only political rubes will fall for the argument that he's been above the predictable and traditional pandering which is the standard in our presidential elections.

[kentuck]

34. If you think the word "bitter" is more damaging...

than the lies about ducking sniper fire, repeated at least 3 or 4 times, then you may be buying whatever they are selling?? DU has been the most bitter place on the Internet since 2001.

[bigtree]

39. I've never heard ANYONE talk to me or anyone else about Bosnia

. . . snipers, or anything else the frustrated Obama supporters and media opportunists are selling. If you think that's driving votes, you must be disregarding the voters focus on very issues you say Obama cares about, and the issues that Hillary Clinton has been championing in her campaign throughout the state.

[merh]

37. It was admitted he could have been more artful in his use of words,

his message was the same as it was in 2004, he understands and he is not pandering.

Or do you not see the whiskey shooting, gun toting, duck hunting Hillary as pandering and said pandering doesn't give the citizens of PA enough credit. I mean, don't you think it is condescending and much more so than anything Obama said. Actions speak louder than words and Hillary stepping out of Hillary to be Annie Oaklie with a taste for whiskey and hanging out in bars with the boys is definitely a louder statement than acknowledging the concerns and the anger of the people.

[bigtree]

44. that's all cute

But, Hillary Clinton has been on the ground, speaking to Pennsylvanians for months about the issues and concerns which they care about and want their president to represent in the White House. I haven't seen any evidence of the rudeness and ridicule that graces this forum and the internet and media snark that pretends to represent how voter really feel about these candidates. Most of the polls still show a pretty even split in Obama's favor nationwide. There's no evidence at all that the silliness is driving that support in either direction.

[merh]

49. Do you remember John Kerry and the new hunting jacket

or Romney and the "hunting varmints" comments?

The people of Pennsylvania and Indiana are no fools, they know that what Hillary is trying to make herself this weekend is pandering.

And think about all those parents that have tried to convince their kids that drinking isn't cool, but there is the former first lady, a senator, shooting whiskey with the boys as if she is on spring break.

You truly don't give the American people the credit they deserve.

.

[EFerrari]

54. That whiskey thing was so funny.

Lol!

[merh]

59. I can't believe she stooped that low.

I mean, has she no honor?

Belly up to the bar, boys. :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

61. There are ways to do the same thing but tastefully.

She just doesn't seem to know what any of those ways are.

[merh]

62. So we have Bill telling folks

that at her age it is hard for her to remember things after 11 pm and then we have her taking shots with the boys at the bar and some mayor saying "everytime we get together all we do is drink" (paraphrasing) and we have this candidate that wants to be the leader - bad memory after 11 and likes to drink.

It sounds like Dubya.

[bigtree]

64. what's the difference between Obama swilling beer and Clinton taking a shot of whiskey?

[bigtree]

58. they were both 'pandering' this weekend

It's a presidential election. Politicians pander. Obama panders. I've posted similar displays from him.

But Hillary Clinton was also speaking (and listening) Pennsylvanian's actual needs and concerns, as she has across the state for months, in an up-close and personal way. I've also posted those efforts here.

Just because you want to promote your pathetic, puritan definition of her visit to the bar as the totality of her campaign doesn't mean that the rest of Pennsylvania is similarly biased against her.

[merh]

60. She is clueless

as is evident that she felt the need to boast about her use of a gun and her taking shots with the boys.

I'm just glad it didn't come down to jello shots.

[bigtree]

63. That's what you've chosen to focus on and ridicule

That says more about you than it does about her campaign in the state.

[merh]

65. You miss the point, I am not ridiculing her, I am pointing out what

the RNC will do with her stunts, what the people see or will see.

It is not about me, bigtree, it is about her pathetic attempt to win at all costs and in doing so, to harm the chances in the GE.

Just imagine all those ads in the General Election, she is not using good judgment in this campaign, how can one expect it if she were to actually hold office.

[bigtree]

66. that's just rhetoric

And, both candidates, any candidate, will be subject to a 'win at any cost' opposition. Of course, I don't believe Obama is immune from any of that. He hasn't been, in my view, in this campaign. His campaign has been just as opportunistic as Clinton's. What a surprise.

POlitics!! In a POlitical contest!! Gads!!!

[merh]

68. Try to use some reason, if you can. Set the emotions aside

and look at it realistically.

What type of message does it send to young women entering the corporate world, that they must submit to the whiskey shooting bar experiences to prove they are one of the boys and equal to them in all ways?

Personally, I can drink with the best of 'em, but I don't list it as a skill on my resume, I think a prospective employer would be all upset, the chances of me needing employer paid rehab would be too much of a risk.

Then you have to think about young girls thinking that they can physically keep up with the boys when they cannot.

I think the last president to proudly swill his liquor was Grant.

Poor judgment when pandering in a campaign, poor finances in a campaign, all point to poor leadership if by some miracle, you get the job.

[EFerrari]

67. I, on the other hand, am ridiculng her lame attempts

to show she has "the common touch". Next, she's going to be scratching in public.

Maybe she can hire Diane Keaton to coach her Southern accent



and Tim Robbins to show her around a used car lot.




lol

[merh]

71. It's tempting

but I am just disgusted, this will affect her campaign more than she realizes.

[Forkboy]

32. My father is a solid Hillary supporter and he knows what Obama meant, and agreed.

The ones who don't get it don't WANT to get it. They see this as one more last ditch effort to stop Obama, and they'll play it to the hilt, which means overplaying their hand yet again.

[AllentownJake]

35. Exactly

Democrats get what he was trying to say. So does Hillary. She's just throwing a hail marry right now.

[AllentownJake]

36. Exactly

Democrats get what he was trying to say. So does Hillary. She's just throwing a hail marry right now.

[EFerrari]

41. That's right. A skillful politician might be able to use this

but the Clinton campaign have yet to be that skillful. Plus, they are saddled with her record, her ties to the Clinton administration and with herself. lol

[tekisui]

40. I agree. This with Penn in Colombia, and Bill in Colombia

has ended it.

[Bensthename]

42. Yup, watch this on PA people

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x117955

[kevinmc]

43. White women begin to turn away from Clinton

Paid for by

[Life Long Dem]

69. Is it to late to ask for a refund on "bitter" stickers?

:shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

74. gun toting and whiskey-swilling gal