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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 01:58 AM
Original message
The Great Betrayal
In all the posts I have made in GD: P during this primary season I have been doing my level best to give Clinton a fair shake. I have made no secret that I have believed the race to be over for some time now and that she has no excuse for continuing to campaign in the manner she has but I have been steadfast in my refusal to go personally negative or insulting, and I have repeatedly called out Obama people who have done so and taken them to task for it... and caught my share of snark and hostility for doing it.

I have stated repeatedly that I believed Clinton would make a fine president, and capably administer the government of the United States should she be elected. Certainly light years better than what we've seen the last eight years. That whatever the acrimony this unnecessarily drawn out campaign was generating at the end of the day what we had was two Democratic candidates dedicated to democratic principles.

And then yesterday Hillary changed my mind for me. In spades.

In 2004, after the most disastrous presidential term in memory, George W Bush was RE-elected. Why? Anyone here paying attention? Anyone give a shit how that happened? HOW we got stuck with the another four damn years under these idiots? I was, and the bottom line is this: The Republicans convinced a lot of American voters that petty, stupid, unimportant issues and evaluating criteria were what should determine their vote.

"What, the economy is tanking? You don't say... hey, did you hear Kerry called our troops stupid? Quick, call your friends and family and express your outrage!"

"The Iraq war is a disaster, thousands of American soldiers are dead and it's draining our national resources dry for no positive effect? Well... did you hear Kerry changed his mind about some things last week? Doesn't that sound indecisive... buy I wouldn't want that guy in charge of such a serious situation when the terrorists jump out of your closet to kill your children!!!"

"The constitution is being infringed, civil liberties are being eroded, and we're becoming the country that tortures our prisoners? Hmmm... listen to these guys who screech about how they think Kerry got a purple heart when he wasn't injured seriously enough. Isn't that disturbing? We have to stop this guy from being president!"

And now it's four years later.

Four years in which the economy has reached the tipping point from decline to outright recession, and we have a candidate who is making the economy a central issue in the minds of voters again, and in the process making sure that everyone understands that the economic issues in this country will only be properly addressed when the priority stops being maximizing profits for a select few percent of the best off of all Americans and then dclaring that some of that cash they're throwing at the wealthiest people will drip down to those below like scraps falling from an overflowing table so hey, everyone will benefit!

Four years in which the Iraq war has gone from worse to catastrophe, and we have a candidate who spoke out against the war before it even started and called the outcome to a tee. These words were spoken on October 2, 2002 by Illinois State Senator Barrack Obama in a public address in Chicago.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

...

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.


Sound familiar? Now gee, what has been going on the last 5 years that might inspire a sense of familiarity when reading those words....

9 days later, Hillary Clinton voted to give President Bush the authorization to go to war with Iraq. That's right, Obama called this before the Congress and Senate ever gave Bush the authorization to proceed, and spoke out very publicly to make the case, and was ignored.


Four years in which the constitution has been tred into the dirt. We have a candidate who is a civil rights lawyer and constitutional law scholar of all damn things. We have the opportunity to take someone whose understanding of the underlying principles and basic rights and privledges enshrined in that document is so comprehensive he is asked to teach it at the university level and put them In The Oval Office after Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo, and domestic wire tapping, and rendition...

And yesterday, I logged in to DU, and I found this man under attack. And what was the attack?

"Hey... did you hear Obama looks down on Pennsylvanians? Called them "bitter"? Boy, we have to make sure that guy doesn't get into the White House. He's a liberal elitist."

And it was coming from a Democrat.

Not only that, it was coming from a Democrat who knows better. Who I damn well guarantee knows what the hell a "wedge issue" is, how they are incessantly exploited by Republican political strategists, and how badly that hurts the nation year after year after year... and knows that what Obama was really talking about was the exact opposite of talking down to Pennsylvanians, that he was advocating for them. Who knows Obama's personal history, and that he does anything but look down on Pennsylvanians or anyone else and just didn't care because saying the opposite made a good attack line.

And to top it off, it was coming from that Democrat for no better reason than to score a few points in a race she has almost no hope of winning. For that... for that, she offered legitimacy to the employment of these kinds of tactics against Democratic candidates if they ever again try to address these issues that so desperately NEED addressing. She endorsed the Republican line of attack against Democratic candidate after Democratic candidate as being legitimate, something which could haunt the entire party for years to come.

So I'm all done defending Hillary against attacks. She doesn't deserve it anymore. And she isn't coming back from this in my book, not ever, not unless she reverses course right damn now and makes this right. What I saw done yesterday was inexcusable. This was not "gloves off" hardball politics, this was a betrayal of basic principles for personal advantage. So I retract all earlier statements that Clinton would make an acceptable president, I don't want to see anyone with those ethics anywhere near the White House.

(To be clear...I will continue to call people out for childish attacks on Clinton supporters, because that is stupid and counterproductive.)
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Brilliant post. K&R
:kick:
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can't in good faith justify even allowing her on my tv screen any more.
But I'll watch the debate. Maybe I'll mute her.

:puke:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. DING DING DING!
:thumbsup:
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Whew, you scared me right up to the end.
Its good to know I can get a good, unforgiving Obamanatrix around here to dish the punishment I deserve so well. I was worried that you were going to get all thoughtful and intellectual there, and thereby lose the spirit of GD:P. I thank you for not doing that. :sarcasm:

;)
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I love it...
...when I get 4 sentence long responses to a many paragraphs long OP, that ignores the entire content of the post and relies entirely on a snarky comment that has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the thread. The failure to even attempt to address any of the points of the argument tells me everything I need to know about how effective it was. Thanks for the indicator.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. no need to thank me...
...you widdled your own post down at the end. It went from a thoughtful/informative post about Obama's strengths, to you attacking Hillary for attacking Obama over words, that's why I'm disappointed. Why did she do it? Maybe because she's been attacked on so many things like her sniper comments, which were also just poorly chosen words, not things of substance. Of course you can argue that her sniper comment shows her deceitfulness, but then somebody else can and will argue that Obama's comments show his elitism. Its a never ending spiral that distracts us from looking at what the candidates offer and I'm just sick of it, that's all.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. The people that I know that still put their faith in the M$M are
Often Hillary supporters. So I find it hard to even deal with them too.

Friends shouldn't let friends drink and then watch Fox news.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R - enough is enough
We have a candidate now who has sailed through every test that has come along and is the clear frontrunner. Hillary has been and is a fine (D) senator...all should be well?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. hyperventilated bullshit. Obama is just as political in his attacks on her
'Basic principles' in this forum are whatever someone feels like defending, almost always in support of their own candidate.

And, there's not even an inkling of resentment toward Obama from you folks for trying to impose his own narrow views on the people of Pennsylvania, defining their affinity for god and guns as some sort of cynical hedge against whatever he thinks they should put first in their lives. He was wrong, and he eventually admitted it. But, the drumbeat against critics who say so goes on as if every political utterance from this career politician was some sort of gospel that has some infallible motive and understanding beyond its admittedly offensive content.

He deserved to be hit for that in this campaign. He long ago decided to strike out, right after he lost New Hampshire. Axelrod and crew haven't let up with their own pernicious brand of political opportunism against the Clinton campaign. But, because the narrative is that Obama is some sort of fragile treasure, he's above criticism of missteps that he even owns up to. It's as if you're defending a candidate which doesn't exist at all in this race. Certainly Obama doesn't deserve to be regarded as above the type of petty politics his supporters regularly castigate Clinton for, as if she doesn't deserve to fight on the same terms as her opportunistic rival.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. No he wasn't wrong...
...and no he didn't admit any such thing. He said he could have said it better. That doesn't mean remotely the same thing.

As for his trying to "impose his own narrow views on the people of Pennsylvania"... speaking of bullshit, I frankly don't buy that you don't know better than that. That you have no clue what the hell a "wedge issue" is or that it's possible to tell the damn truth about how they are employed in places like Pennsylvania without it being an argument that everyone in Pennsylvania who votes a certain way does it solely because they're being manipulated with them.

As for "Certainly Obama doesn't deserve to be regarded as above the type of petty politics his supporters regularly castigate Clinton for, as if she doesn't deserve to fight on the same terms as her opportunistic rival."... how often have you heard Lewinsky come up in this campaign hmm? (Not from jackasses around here, from the Obama campaign)

Whitewater? Lots and lots of talk about Whitewater is there?

Rose firm papers?

Obama has hit Clinton on policy issues, and matters she herself has made campaign issues like her claimed experience advantage. This is far different. Clinton knew damn well what Obama was talking about and she deliberately distorted it in a manner that plays directly into Republican hands across the board. Not just in this rare, but in elections in general. And that is inexcusable. She gave credibility to calling anyone who tries to address the problem wedge issues represent a "condescending liberal elitist". Where have we heard that before bigtree? Whose attack line is that? She then followed it up with the whole "who's more American" idiocy the Republicans have been puling forever. Don't even try to sell the idea that Obama would ever pull an "I'm more of an American than Senator Clinton" line of implication. No chance.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I agree.
Hillary's campaign choices are reminiscent of her attacks on Kerry last year. She castigated a fellow Democrat with Republican framing of a non-issue. Hillary's recent attacks on Obama and her attack last fall on Kerry are very similar in style.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You're way off base.....
Obama was not off base at all.

Watch starting at 11:00 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJut4-dHuV8

The problem is that Hillary is a Democrat playing up to the Wedge issues that we have been attempting to get out of the way for so long. We have not been trying this for only the sake of the presidency, but for all of congressional members.....because we all want voting folks to concentrate on what is truly important in reference to what is going on in this nation.

Bigtree, I don't know what it is that Hillary does for you, but whatever it is, it's not doing it for many. She is a total disappointment, and each and everytime she could have scored points by being gracious, she turned it down.

In the end, Hillary will not become President, whether because she doesn't become the nominee, or because so many people just won't want to participate, she'll lose the general election. And the sad part of it will be; she did it to us. She betrayed all of us by making the election about her, and ignoring all that we have worked towards for so long.

You'll see.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Hill disqualified herself from the nomination when she endorsed McCain for president.
Nothing Obama has said or done comes close to the betrayal of the Democratic Party, of all Democrats, as that did.

Those were the most offensive remarks of the campaign by miles.



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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. Obama has been repeating the old RW talking points about Clinton for a year now. But as always
the rules only apply if your Hillary.

Steve
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Oh really...
...provide an example.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Remember that time Obama said Hillary had her ex-lover killed to cover-up her crimes.
:rofl:

The Hilbots are so desperate they can no longer remember who said what.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You'd think that any Hillary supporter
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:49 AM by gcomeau
...would at least be aware of what RW talking points on Clinton are and be able to recognize that Obama doesn't go there. But please lay off the "Hillbots". Like I said in the OP, attacking the supporters is stupid and counterproductive.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Kick..
...to give you another shot at providing that example.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Feel free to be a tad more specific. n/t
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. I, too, would like to know what RW talking points about Clinton Obama has been repeating.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent, well-written post ! K&R
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. Superb post, gcomeau. You express all that is wrong with this picture.
Thank you. :toast:
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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R.
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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Yeah, Great post man.
I can only hope that more and more Democrats realize how harmful she is to the party. Enough is enough!
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. Would you call her latest action vile and unscrupulous? n/t
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. Great post.
:thumbsup:
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