Who here grew up in small town PA?

[Avalux]

I did. If I could still live there I would, but there's nothing left anymore except retail jobs. It's sad to see a once bustling, booming town reduced to a shadow of its former self. I've watched it happen over the last 20 years.

The people who remain in my hometown are the 'forgotten' Americans - the hard-working blue collar backbone of this country who have been ignored and downright attacked by our government. Yes, they are bitter and angry and are sick and tired of being ignored.

Obama has spoken a truth and in doing so, has validated these people I know so well. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable to discuss and spurs attacks by those who can't begin to understand; who have never lived it.

The people of my hometown want a president who understands them and will work with them towards a bright future. They do not want to hear platitudes from Hillary and McCain about how wonderful everything is while nothing ever changes.

[MADem]

1. We'll see how your hometown votes.

I don't think anyone likes being called "bitter."

But we'll see.

[roguevalley]

47. bitter. Is that all you have? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

[Skip Intro]

48. One might ask, is that all you have?

Condescension, arrogance, "better than you" bullshit.

Is that all you have?

[Labors of Hercules]

51. being better than you is not condescension.

it's a fact.

[Skip Intro]

60. You're "better" than me? And that's a "fact?" In what way are you "better" than me?

[amandabeech]

85. Well, I hope that Obama doesn't share your attitude.

Otherwise, McCain will win in November.

Sheesh.

[Zhade]

69. We're better than those who support a proven liar.

NT!

[leftofcool]

2. All of them angry and bitter?

[azmouse]

4. Yes.

But not as bitter as you.

[leftofcool]

9. I am a happy camper

[azmouse]

12. Good job. You've fooled everyone here.

[stillcool]

78. the words that you type...

reveal you to be something very different. Have one on me..:toast:

[Avalux]

6. Let me explain further.

The town exists because of the PRR. Just about everyone who lived there worked for the railroad at one time; then there were manufacturing plants as well. The majority of people are not college educated. So what happens when the plants close and the jobs leave? Yes, bitter and angry, most of them.

[amandabeech]

86. But are they clinging to religion, guns, and anti-trade agreement feelings

because they are bitter about their economic circumstances?

Or are they going to church and cleaning their guns and guns because those things are parts of their life?

Are they against trade agreements like NAFTA because they are bitter or because they think that those agreements have not produced jobs as promised?

That's the catch for me in Obama's San Francisco statement.

I grew up in a small town in the Midwest and visit my friends and family there frequently, so I'm not clueless. And I'm not a Hillary supporter.

[azmouse]

3. I grew up near Boyertown, PA.

It's a town of about 5000.
I moved away in 1990 because there was no hope of improving my life there.

[Avalux]

8. It's sad.

When I was a kid, my entire family lived in Altoona. I could ride my bike to my granparents's house, aunts and uncles, etc. That family that existed is gone. The children of my generation all moved away. It's a loss I feel for my children because they'll never know what I experienced.

[azmouse]

11. My brother still lives in PA and has to work 2 jobs to try to hold on to his home.

There are no good paying manufacturing jobs left. The service jobs don't give health insurance to the workers.
I wish things were better there.

[RazBerryBeret]

5. Hell, I'm angry and bitter

I'll admit it, I live in Ohio.
I've lost 2 jobs in three years.
I pay for my own insurance for myself and my two young children.

My boys face the possibility of a draft in the future.

YEAH, I'm bitter.

[Avalux]

15. The truth hurts and Obama is being attacked for speaking it.

I personally and glad Obama said what he did because it forces discussion. That's the first step in real change. I'm sorry you've had hard times. :hug:

[RazBerryBeret]

17. thanks, I'm doing better

than probably 40% of Ohioans...hubby has a stable job. but it is so frustrating that we sweep under the rug the very REASON we all (or most) want change. Things are not working so well for the vast majority of us. They haven't been working in our favor for years. It's that top 5% of Americans--but we're supposed to go along with it, with a big smile on our faces? is that what is expected? I guess I just don't get why "bitter" is such a bad word. Like I said, I'm bitter. I want more.

for years we've been talking about change--even revolution, taking back the government, getting back some of our civil liberties back, putting a stop to wire tapping, ending the oil regime....etc. So why are we so wimpy about using the word BITTER?

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

30. Sometimes I wonder

if it's all planned. He dangles the bait, they jump, and he comes out using the media to further discussion. How do you solve problems? By discussing them. It's an awesome thing coming out of that campaign.

[amandabeech]

87. Try to get into a neutral fram of mind. Then read his words as carefully as you can.

His words can easily be taken to mean that people cling to religion and guns and only because they are bitter, not because they've been religious and gun-loving all their lives. He doesn't even qualify his statement with a "some."

People don't like to be told that they are Johnny-come-latelies to cultural activities that make up the fabric of their lives. It's like calling a religious Christian that he or she is only a "Christmas and Easter" when they've been to church every Sunday for years. It is huge insult, and does not get voters who take his words that way, which many may be doing, town leadership notwithstanding.

I'm from a small town in Michigan and I am not a Hillary supporter.

[quantass]

7. Yea sounds to me Obama hit on it dead on.

[AllentownJake]

10. Polarized the Electorate

I don't think this has lasting damage because the people in small town America who "get it" and would vote for us will understand what he's talking about because these are their neighbors.

The other half...well they will probably vote for McCain anyway.

Rendell won the governship by a landslide in 2002 carrying 18 counties. Pretty much the 5 largest cities and their subburbs so who knows what this would do in the GE out here.

[HootieMcBoob]

13. I grew up in Washington, PA

A small town south west of Pittsburgh. And I am totally pissed off at this manufactured scandal. Hillary Clinton should be ashamed of herself.

What Obama said is absolutely true. Americans can take the truth. We are sick of Hillary and McSame's happy talk. Obama doesn't talk down to us. He treats us like adults. It's very refreshing.

[Freedomofspeech]

23. I was born in Washington, PA....

but grew up in Mt. Pleasant, PA. Of course things are bad here and people are bitter about a lot of things: unemployment, the damn invasion of Iraq, the price of gas, etc. Everything Sen. Obama said is true. This is such bullshit that such a big freakin' deal has been made out of the truth. I am so sick of the negativity of the Clinton's.

[Auntie Bush]

32. I don't recognize the guy who talked the happy talk of we can all get along...you, me , the Indies

and the rethugs. Michele...she always talked the how awful this world is...it sucks! Now Obama has changed his tune..... He's not proud of America either.

Does anyone for one moment think Hillary supporters are happy with what's going on? Don't all Dems think bush has screwed the poor and middle class in favor of the rich? Don't we all want change? How dare people say Hillary wants the statuesque! That meme is a damn right LIE and Obama supporters keep quoting it till they believe it. Isn't that called drinking the kool-aid?!

She's not running this stinking campaign because she wants or likes what's happening and plans to keep things where they ares. Open your tiny closed minds for a minute and hear the intelligent rational of her planned changes if she was president. She has ALWAYS been a liberal and far to the left of her husband. Why can't she get credit for the things he did that were good for our country (that she agreed with) and reject the ones that weren't. How many here always agree 100% with their spouse? What the hell did you expect her to do...disagree with him publicly? Do you think Michele, if first lady, would get out and campaign against her husband? NO! No first lady would. Do you think Laura agrees with everything bush does? I think not! Frankly, I bet she even believes in stem cell research and a womans right to have an abortion. Actually I bet her husband really does too. If Laura decided to run for president...couldn't she be all for stem cell research without being criticized for invading Iraq. How do you know...maybe she thought her husband was an asshole for doing so. She'd have a right to her own opinion...as Hillary should.

Where does Obama have the nerve to think Hillary and her supporters are
satisfied with the state of our economy and world affairs? Haven't you been listening? Get a grip and listen to what she has to say. Stop putting your own personal biased spin into Hillary's thoughts and motives. You're not psychologists. Spend a little more time listening instead of psyching out Hillary and her motives...and listening to the bias MSM and KO. You'll be much better informed. Use your own heads.

[Zhade]

72. None of what you said exonerates her for choosing to lie, repeatedly and without reservation.

She's a proven liar.

This is backed up by actual undeniable evidence.

Why even bother with what the supporters of a proven liar have to say? You're not worth the time.

[bowens43]

14. Me too....and all my family

and we all agree, even the couple of republicans in the family , that Obama got this right.

[PM7nj]

16. I grew up and still live in a small NJ town

along the Delaware river. Both Camden and my town used to be the industrial centers of southern NJ. All the big factories closed in the 80s and the ones left are now struggling. My grandfather worked in a glass factory that employed over a thousand people. That company didn't leave, but they now employ about 50.

[Prefer]

18. Chambersburg is half mexican now

[tblue37]

19. Avoca, PA--between Scranton And Wilkes-Barre. I lived there from

age 13 until I got married just before my 20th birthday. Before that, I was an Air Force brat from many different Air Force bases. After he retired, Dad went back to the area he was born and raised in: the coal-mining region of Northeastern PA PA. He got a job and was laid off after 2 years. For 8 months, no work. He finally got a civil service job in Philly, but we stayed in Avoca. Dad drove home on Friday noghts, and returend to work in Philly each Monday, leaving home at 4:00 a.m. He had to do this becuase there was no work available in the area where we lived.

Much of my extended family still lives in Northeasetrn PA. And there are still few jobs available.

[Avalux]

26. My Dad did the same thing.

After he got laid of from the railroad, he took a job with Bell Telephone in Harrisburg; we stayed in Altoona and he came home on the weekends. Almost destroyed my parents' marriage; he finally got a job in town but paid much less.

[tblue37]

42. I mainly remember his loneliness in Philly and his exhaustion

at having to commute 4 hours every Friday and Monday. Until he retired in the 1970s, we saw him only on weekends and holidays. That's not much of a family life, is it? I am reminded of the workeing men in Africa who must travel far away from their families and villages to find work in larger cities or in mines.

[ekwhite]

53. I used to live in the Poconos

I lived there for nine years - two in Tobyhanna, 7 in Kunkletown. I used to go to Wilkes-Barre to shop when I lived in Tobyhanna, so I know Avoca well. I'm sad to hear they are still doing badly. They didn't do well in the 90's when I lived there.

[stillcool]

80. holy shit! I lived in Kunkletown!

and I was there in the 90's too. I worked in the restaurant biz..started at "Pocmont" and moved on from there.

[Pawel K]

20. Dictionary.com: bitter - Resulting from or expressive of severe grief, anguish, or disappointment

yup, if I had to go through what the OP went through I'd be bitter too.

[1776Forever]

21. You got it right! Ask Buffalo NY about Hillary! Check this out & pass it around!!!!!

Saturday, September 22, 2007
Buffalo News: Critics charge Sen. Clinton tied to Offshore Outsourcing U.S. Jobs

http://modernpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/09/buffalo-news-critics-charge-sen-clinton.html

The "Buffalo News" in Buffalo, NY has a story today about Hillary Clinton's ties to Indian Job Outsoucing giant TATA/TCS. The headline of the story is "Critics tie Clinton to offshoring" ( subtitled, "Touted company’s promised local jobs never materialized") This follows on earlier stories in the LA Times and the Washinton Post.

Eye-catching quotes:

"She touted how she brought Tata to Buffalo – and in the meantime Tata is one of the biggest body shops in America,” bringing cheap foreign labor to this country while exporting other jobs to India, said John Bauman, founder of the Connecticut- based Organization for the Rights of American Workers."

"In its last fiscal year, nevertheless, Tata — which reported revenues of $4.1 billion — ranked as the top Indian exporter of software and services this year, according to the National Association of Software and Service Companies."

“What she did was really pretty dumb from an economic development point of view,” said Ron Hira, an assistant professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology and the author of “Outsourcing America.” “Tata destroys a lot more American jobs than it created Buffalo.”

The article fails to mention that Ron Hira, quoted above, is also with the Economic Policy Institute (EPI). Links to his writings and a video of him discussing the use of guest worker visas to replace American middle class workers appears on this blog site. See the links to the side noting that TATA/TCS uses imported Indian "guest workers" (rather than Americans) for its managerial, engineering and technical positions (what have historically been good, well paying middle class jobs) in the U.S. -- nearly 8,000 imported workers in 2006. TATA was #1 user of L-1 "guest workers" and #4 in H-1b in 2006.

....................

Oh yeah Hillary sure cares about the little guy! As long as he has BIG Deep Pockets!

:rant:

[OhioChick]

46. Ask Hershey, PA About HRC and NAFTA

Hershey’s Chocolate Moves to Mexico


http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/article/20022-hershey-s-chocolate-moves-mexico

[Vinca]

22. It's possible this whole thing could backfire on her big time. nt

[americanstranger]

24. Warminster, Bucks County here.

It was truly a small town when I lived there in the early Sixties, in a community that was formerly government housing and was converted to low-income housing. When I was a kid there were still farms within walking distance from where I lived. I go back there now and I barely recognize the place.

My family grew up in smaller towns in Coal Country - Centralia, Avondale, Nanticoke. Those towns were dying back when I was still a kid, and my generation grew up in Bucks because many of the young people born in Coal Country moved away when they got their first chance.

What Obama is speaking about has been going on in states like PA for a long, long time. No one has ever come out and said that the reason it's gone on is because the 'little people' in rural areas get very little from the Clinton/McCain elites in DC.

- as

[tishaLA]

91. Centralia is the saddest metaphor for what Obama is talking about

A town and an industry that could no longer support its population and then, in an almost Miltonian turn, the mines that provided sustenance to the townspeople exacted a despicable vengeance. A town that, quite literally, was burning from below and forcing its residents out.

[enough]

25. Chadds Ford, PA

When I was growing up, it was not as it has become (suburbanized and Wyethized). Lived on a dirt road and a third of the kids in my class were studying "ag." There's very little of that left any more.

[Berry Cool]

27. "Grew up in small-town Ohio" checking in.

And here to say...yeah, people ARE bitter. The only question is, what will they do with their bitterness? Elect somebody based on image: McCain the War Hero and Comforting Daddy Figure? Hillary the Tough Woman Whom We Associate With Better Times When Her Hubby Was President? Obama the Fresh New Guy? Or, will they seriously think about what's at stake and vote based on that?

[Avalux]

28. We'll have to wait and see.

As you can see I support Obama and I think he is challenging Americans to think and work with him towards change. The more people who become part of the debate and become actively involved the better. I use my parents as an example - registered Republican but terribly apathetic towards politics until this year. They are excited about Obama and registered as Democrats for the first time in their lives. So yeah, bitter but also see a light at the end of the tunnel. They view McCain and Hillary the same - status quo corporatists.

[AwakeAtLast]

29. My husband, who now lives in Indiana

He had a lot more opportunity here, so he moved. The up side of doing that was he met me! ;)

The same could be said for most areas where manufacturing has gone away - very, very sad. :(



edit to tell you he grew up near Fleetwood, north (I think)of Reading.

:hi:

[BumRushDaShow]

31. K&R this thread.

I am from the big city of Philadelphia, but Philadelphia is also called "the city of towns" and certainly the 40 or so neighborhoods are each the size of such of a small town. And many were also built and populated around manufacturing back in the day - when companies like Budd and Jack Frost sugar and even the Naval Ship Yard reigned supreme... all gone.

Such sad stories to read in this thread and I do sympathize with my fellow Pennsylvanians. :grouphug:

[windbreeze]

52. OMG....the Naval Shipyard IS gone, isn't it???

I had forgotten that, I took my physical to get into the Navy at that base, all those years ago.....Connie Mack Stadium....I graduated from So.Philly High....wb

[Barack_America]

65. It's still there. The jobs are gone though.

It closed in the mid 90's, I believe.

[MethuenProgressive]

33. Hillary's Dad?

If I remember Wright.

[Avalux]

34. Oh yeah, that's right.

And her grandmother was a slumlord who kicked residents out who couldn't pay her during the depression. I wouldn't use that reference again if I were you; doesn't play well in PA.

[MethuenProgressive]

35. Oh, please...

"grandmother" and "slumlord"? You really don't want to go there after all of BO's BS!
:rofl:

[Zhade]

77. Unlike your allegations about Obama, there's evidence that proves clinton lies repeatedly.

So I'd shut up about honesty if I were you, considering you're in the failing position.

[Condem]

36. Newtown, PA - County of Bucks

10 minutes from Levittown which is getting all the ink. Had maybe 30 Afro-Americans in a high school of more than 3000. PA is a tough call. I think Hillary will win by about 12 points. A gut feeling. I hope I'm wrong.

[Avalux]

38. I think it may be closer, but it is a tough call.

Altoona - high school of about 3000 with about 10 African Americans. It took me moving away to understand the underlying racial tones of where I grew up. I wrote a post awhile ago about my mother being a racist. She has managed to put some of that away to vote for Obama however. If she can do it, then there's a chance others like her will do the same.

[Condem]

39. Sparo

Both my parents were racist. Irish. Yet, democrats. They're both dead now but if they were alive and seeing history being made they would be for..........Mom: Hillary. Dad: McCant. I've moved on.

[BlooInBloo]

37. My mom is from one of the smallest - Indianhead.

[Freedomofspeech]

43. Part of the Connvellsville School District...

wow, that's crazy...right in the mountains above us!!

[BlooInBloo]

71. Hah - you ever been to Peachins? True Deliverance land.

[philk17088]

40. same here

I grew up and still live in Lebanon County. We are mainly agricultural but we did have Bethelhem Steel and the Lebanon steel foundry. Budd trailer, Alcoa had a plant here. A lot of shirt factories,shoe plants too.
None of these exist here anymore,none.

Our economy right now is service industry catering mostly to the retired set. We also are big on warehouses now due to our proximity to Philly,NYC,.
Those that stayed are still bitter but there kids have never known good jobs, ever. They seem to be indifferent because they have nothing to base their situation on.
Obama's comments were right on the money and will make some of the skeptics take another look. Maybe not.
As far as Hillary Clinton? There is no support for her here.

[solito]

41. did hard times make you buy a gun?

That's what Obama said people with hardship do.

[Freedomofspeech]

44. Gun ownership is a big deal here..

we get the first two days of deer season off for God's sake. You have to live here to understand what it's like.

[ELY08]

45. Macungie Here

Yes we are bitter...

[livetohike]

56. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Penndems]

79. It is INDEED a big deal in Pennsylvania

In fact, PA is second (right behind Texas) in the number of hunting licenses it issues every year.

[EFerrari]

57. No, he didn't say that.

[stillcool]

75. Hey...watch this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NIxmi3e2Vmo
you'll be really, really bitter.

[amandabeech]

89. Did hard times make you go to church?

Or heaven forbid, harbor anti-trade agreement sentiments?

You know of course, that NAFTA and MFN for China didn't have anything to do with your job going to Mexico and then on to China.

[windbreeze]

49. I did....county seat too..NW Pa..

and I saw my father work his behind off to support all of us...and take care of us w/o medical insurance.....only to have industry after industry close after 15 or 20 years...first it was a tannery...then it was a maker of large turbines..then at the age of 50 he had to sell his home and move clear across state in order to survive, and then that business closed down too, so he was out looking for work again in his late 50's...the town is still there...not sure what the population is...It was only about 7,000 when I lived there, all those years ago...but I know the people of that town are of a different caliber than our esteemed candidates..they know what it's like to work hard..and to still end up w/o...I, like you, am sure they'd prefer having someone tell them the truth...they are based in reality, not some fantasy world...wb

PS: I just checked...there are only 4,240 people in my home town now, about 3,000 people gone...wow!!...I have to correct a statement I made...he had to sell "OUR" home, the only home I ever remember as a kid..I want it back...now!!..I miss living there..and we don't have 4 seasons where I live...They have 12 students per teacher, can you believe it...and less property crime than where I live now...(another small town of about 3,900 who has 25/30 students per teacher)

[Tatiana]

50. I am reading these responses with tears in my eyes.

:cry:
:grouphug:

[KillCapitalism]

54. Me too.

It almost appears that PA is like a 3rd world country.

We're not far behind here in Missouri.

[Tatiana]

55. Not to mention Ohio. People are really suffering.

And all they ask for is a government that is responsive to their needs.

How can you attack anyone for accurately stating the problem?

[PCIntern]

58. Grew up in New Hope, PA

Very conservative ...amazing since many many folks there lived 'alternative lifestyles' before it was acknowledged elsewhere as a legitimate way of life. But in those days, RW meant "stay out of my peronal affaits, my business, and my wallet".

[lmbradford]

59. small town OK here...

This little town used to be booming with business and growing. Now there are two businesses left. The bar and the non=profit community theater. There is no housing for anyone who would like to stay here. The population consists of elderly and very, very poor. Mostly because they can rent or still own the houses that were built in the 1940's. They are dilapidated now, but at least they can afford them. It is really sad. Everyone here drives 25 miles to the nearest town to work for little more than minimum wage. The good jobs are very hard to get and they have been held by the same people for thirty or forty years. There is no way that those people give up their jobs even when they hate it.

That is life in small town OK......

[featherman]

61. I spent my teen age summers helping out on my grandparent's farm

near Boiling Springs, PA. Some of the best memories of my life... hard work, great food, acres of beautiful rolling hills, chickens, pigs, haying, milking, driving tractor, hunting varmits, catching trout, kissing a certain neighbor girl in the loft ... my, my... this was in the 1950's.

Thanks for asking.

[AlinPA]

63. Trout in the Yellow Breeches......still a good place.

[featherman]

70. exactly... it ran through their farm and was where I learned to fly fish

I later became a professional fly tyer for about 30 years until I retired in 2002

[AlinPA]

81. I've only gone in at the Allenberry access. Did you tie a beetle?

[featherman]

84. Gotta go so can't get into loooong professional discussion but

yes, I tied beetles, blue winged olives, pale sulphurs, caddis, letort hoppers, white flies and all manner of local faves for my PA customers. I had a nationwide customer base and traveled all over the country fly fishing virtually every venue available, usually by invitation. Pretty fun career actually.

[jasmine621]

62. These are the same kind of people Jesse Jackson talked about in

1984 and 1988. Where were all of you supporters of "bitter Americans" then?

[stillcool]

74. huh?

oh...another black guy..I get it. One trick pony?

[Shine]

64. As a little girl, I lived in Slippery Rock, PA in Butler County for a few years

my dad taught English and Drama at the University there.

I agree with you about Obama. He has spoken the truth.

[Condem]

66. My father

worked in the GM plant that the NYTimes magazine wrote about last week. In Trenton. That plant is dead and so is my dad. Bitter- Nah!

[Zhade]

67. Oh, but don't you know? NAFTA was good for PA and did no harm during the 90s.

Yes, there's actually an idiot (who also denies the video evidence that proves clinton lied about Tuzla) pimping THAT lie in another thread.

[yardwork]

68. I grew up in small town OH, right next door to PA.

I agree with you and I agreed with Obama, who spoke the truth. There was nothing insulting about Obama's statement.

Some people seem uncomfortable with the truth. I want a president who sees it and speaks it.

[stillcool]

73. I didn't grow up in PA...

but I lived in Kunkletown for a few years after I got married.

[Condem]

76. stillcool

where the fuck is that?

[stillcool]

82. Stroudsburgh area...

Great name isn't it?

[Condem]

83. Yes, it is.

[Armstead]

88. I was born in Scranton....But my parents left when I was a year old, so I guess it doesn;t count

[Barack_America]

90. Hillary would count it.

Congratulations, Pennsylvania is your home state!

[tishaLA]

92. I lived in Lewisburg for some years

It's probably most famous for being home to Bucknell University (Bill Clinton spoke there today), but its story is sadder than that. It is in the center of "red state" PA and, despite some liberal professors at the university, it is a kind of Reagan dreamland. Lewisburg has 5600 residents, and the population skews a bit younger than most of PA. But the incomes are worse, despite the school. The median family income in 2005 was 31K; overall in PA it was 44.5K. It has lost its Pennsylvania House furniture factory and other businesses to NAFTA and sustains itself, as much as it can, on the students at the school.

[futureliveshere]

93. well said.. anger if channelized correctly is an extremely effective weapon