Hillary Fans: I feel sad for you, but it is not Obama’s fault! (4/7/2008)

[KansasVoter]

I think I know how Hillary fans feel. I am sure they were so excited in January of 2007 when she entered the race. Hell, I was excited also. I always liked Hillary and knew she was a smart lady. And with Bill behind her and the political machine behind her I thought she was a sure thing. And we would win in November!

That is why I think Hillary fans are so upset. They honestly thought they had this nomination in the bag for over a year. They also thought the DNC owed Hillary for all of her support in the past and would hand her the nomination.

I have seen so many posts from Hillary fans about “this was Hillary’s time” and “they stole this from Hillary”. And another common theme was “Obama could have waited until 2016”.

I understand the disappointment but not the anger at Obama, the DNC and Howard Dean.

No one is “Owed” the nomination. Even if they were, how were the DNC and Howard Dean going to stop Obama or Edwards or any of the other Democratic contenders from gaining the public attention? How did the DNC or Howard Dean take support away from Hillary?

If this was Hillary’s year then all Hillary had to do is convince the electorate that she was the best choice. Hillary had a huge advantage. She had Power, money, background, the spouse and name recognition. She had it all.

But we all knew one thing that Hillary had going that not many people talked about but everyone knew. There were a lot of people who just plain did not like her. They thought she was annoying. They thought she came across as snide. They thought she rubbed too many people the wrong way. We all knew people who were strong democrats but said that they did not like Hillary and did not want her to be the nominee. They could never pinpoint what they didn’t like but it was “something”!

And this is not a sexist thing. Katherine Sebelius was elected the democratic governor of Kansas, a huge red state, and many of my friends who voted for her and sent her money could not stand Hillary. There was just something about her that annoyed people.

Then Obama came along with his “Change” message. And people loved it. It was so anti-Hillary that people who were 100% democratic, but did not like Hillary, loved him. He was charismatic and smart and educated and “different”. People didn’t want old school Washington. They wanted something new. So Obama caught on and Hillary suffered from it.

But I still do not know why people are mad at Obama. I think it is really caused by jealously that he took the nomination from her. They should be mad at Hillary for not showing her friendly side. They should be mad at Hillary for assuming she would wrap this up after Super Tuesday. They should be mad at Hillary for talking the nomination for granted. And so many people should be mad at Hillary for mocking Obama supporters. She really did make fun of them for loving his speeches. She basically said his believers were stupid to follow him. And it made his followers dislike her even more.

So it really is this simple: Obama fans don’t like Hillary for how she acted in this election. Hillary fans don’t like Obama because he stole this nomination from Hillary.

Bill Clinton said it best. “In the Primaries you fall in love, in the general election you fall in line”

I hope the Hillary supporters can remember to “Fall in Line” come August. We really need you!!!

[Liberal Veteran]

1. K & R!

[Zachstar]

2. We ALL need to focus on the real objective now. CONGRESS

The election will be easy for Obama. However the congressional elections will be difficult. Republicans can easily slip through if we do not work hard to support EVERY state and EVERY district!

[JayFredMuggs]

8. I really hope it will be easy for Obama

But I see a lot of centrist feminists Democrats posting here as is Obama is the worst thing since Attilla the Hun!

Oh dear, let's hope most centrist feminists here come around and see that Obama is 200 times better than John McSame.

[Zachstar]

26. I think they will. They need to understand the damage McCain will do to civil rights

So let us hope they will come around.

[TheDoorbellRang]

62. As a centrist feminist myself

I've chosen my candidate on the basis of issues and character -- not genitalia. I don't consider a woman any sort of feminist if she bases her decision on the candidate's gender.

[KansasVoter]

34. I ghink Obama wil help a lot of those! (eom)

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JimGinPA]

Yes You Are

[QC]

5. Condescension is what the Hope 'n Unity Brigade does best.

Well, that and sophomoric mockery. And freeperesque smears.

[TheWraith]

9. Excuse me? How the hell was that called for?

[KansasVoter]

11. Thanks! And I'd vote for Hillary in a minute if she wins! (eom)

[rug]

13. That's what 19 days in GDP will do.

[NanceGreggs]

4. Fantastic!!!

:applause:

:kick: & REC'D!!!

[RazBerryBeret]

6. some people can only

make themselves look and feel better by tearing others down.

[cliffordu]

7. OUCH!!! Fock. That's going to leave a mark.....

Outstanding observations!!


I'm just kickin' it here.....


:kick:




:patriot:

[StevieM]

10. Right there is why Hillary's supporters are so enraged.

Your thread is a tad condescending. Under the auspices of reaching out you slammed us. I don't believe that Barack stole the nomination from her, and that's not why her supporters are upset. I'm upset because I like her and I don't like him.

You volunteered us for agreement that Hillary has acted badly in this election while her supporters apparently aren't even making that particular charge. Nothing could be further from how I feel. I think Hillary has behaved admirably while her opponent has smeared her.

Hillary never did say--outright or implicitly--that Obama's supporters were stupid to follow him.

You finish your thread by saying "we really need you!!!" But if you truly grasped that then you wouldn't put up the thread to begin with. I find it to be a humiliating read.

A respectful post, to reach out, goes something like this: "I know a lot of people love Hillary, she's done amazing things for this country in her career and in her life, I think she's a really good person and she would have made a good president. The other guy just did a little bit better."

You didn't even approach that attitude.

Oh, and this isn't a feminist thing. I'm a male and I don't think of myself as a feminist.

Steve

[KansasVoter]

14. You are wrong.....she did insult us.....

The "Sky Opened Up" speech was shocking and insulting. It changed my mind and millions of others!

[OhioBlue]

19. yep - that combined

with the I.A.M. guy in Youngstown OH introducing her that called us latte drinking, prius driving whatevers.... My own Gov called me delusional or something. Whatever.

The Ohio Primary really, really turned me off to Hillary.

For the record, I did have a latte at Panera a couple of months ago and I really did like it. I'm also not opposed to a Prius, but I have always purchased an American/Union vehicle - GM or Ford. I can't say the same for the local Central Labor leader that supports Hill. But then again, maybe he never tried a latte, so I guess we are even.... lol...

[KansasVoter]

23. Then Obama got the support of the "latte drinking" Teamsters!!! LOL!

[papau]

27. Well said - Obama is a con job that has 5 major lies exposed to date - and played the race card

to stop Hillary's momentum after her NH win.

The major lies are of course are
1.out of Iraq in 16 months (Powers/EU paper interview)
2. Intention to push for Health and other social programs (CNBC kudlow interview)
3. Intent to leave NAFTA if NAFTA not modified (Canadian meeting and memo)
4. Saying he was not aware of Rev Wrights standard "social justice" speech that blames whites and the USA for all wrongs (a lie admitted to in the "Speech")
5. Saying Rezko was someone he hardly knew after a 17 year relationship that included money transactions before he entered public service and after he began public service.

God forbid anyone use this weeks foreign policy expert speech against him - growing up in a Muslim school, then visiting Pakistan (any one else we know that has that background before becoming famous/infamous)

[IsItJustMe]

41. God, I can you hope that you hate on John McCain as much as you hate on our most likely presidential

nominee. With supporters like you, who the hell needs enemies.

[Cassandra]

38. I am a feminist and...

a Wellesley grad and I think Hillary has lost what should have been a sure thing for the same reason I've been queasy about supporting her; the influence of the DLC. They have been battling Dean and the grassroots of the party for years and thought they could win the nomination the third way...their way. And in a primary season against a lesser candidate than Obama, they might have done it. They thought it would be sufficient to win a few early states, throw out a lot of money (from a few rich backers) early on and ride that wave of inevitability back to the WH. Obama saw what Dean had started and had the smarts to build on it, because he trusts his supporters and Hillary trusts a much narrower group who have proven themselves loyal; grassroots vs. top-down. She could not do what Obama did precisely because she and her DLC backers do not believe in it and do not trust us. What drew me to Dean early on was his willingness to empower his supporters, rather than acting like he knew what was good for us. I think Obama thinks about his supporters the same way and that's what I like about him.

[DevonRex]

55. Hey Cassandra!

I'm a Deaniac, too. He started the movement to take the democratic party back from the DLC. He was right about the war from the beginning and about so many other things. He just wasn't as polished a candidate as Obama and the media ate him up. Obama is continuing his legacy and that is why I'm such a strong supporter. It's time for us to to fight back against the DLC and retake our party and the nation.

What about dean for Secretary of Health and Human Services?

[redqueen]

61. Well said! (nt)

[Hepburn]

49. She acted admirably? In a pig's eye. she did!

How about the bullshit when she mocked Obama supporters or how about when she supported McLame over Obama?

She has acted like a horrible little piggy ~~ trying to hog something that was not hers to begin with.

JMHO

[slinkerwink]

12. It's her campaign that's run horribly, and that did Clinton supporters a great disservice

[Gore1FL]

20. No doubt about it

Penn Ickes and Wolfson did their best to navigate the S.S. Clinton to the middle of the sea, and when their strategies started to flood the hull, Bill Clinton and Carville did their best to solve the problem by drilling holes to let the water out.

Hillary is a much better candidate than she her campaign. Though, she followed along, and bought into the scorched earth tactics despite seeing success in being positive.

Frankly, I tend to be turned off by her now. She was growing on me prior to her "win no matter how much you lose in doing so" tactics proposed by her staff.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. Horrible is right. If Hillary can't run a campaign, how can she run a country? GObama!!!

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Your post is BS.

Next.

[KansasVoter]

16. Thanks for the comment! I appreciate it! (eom)

[DemGa]

17. Incorrect -- I despise BO's actions in this campaign

Running on Hillary's "negatives" acquired by the right-wing attacks she endured in the nineties -- assaulting Hillary Clinton with the enemy's own slander. He's pure treachery and you've been wildly duped.

No way could I support the man. Period.

[BuyingThyme]

25. Can you cite some examples?

I didn't hear about this.

[Dawgs]

39. Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

Can provide just one example that isn't true? I doubt it.

[IsItJustMe]

42. Do you really believe in your own bull?

[davidpdx]

18. I agree and now is the time to show some class

and reach out to those who want to listen. There will obviously be some that no matter what you say will not vote for Obama. Unfortunately there's not much you can do about that.

I think with better staffing, a different strategy and better fund raising Hillary definitely could have done much better then she has. What the OP has pointed out is that those who support Clinton are quick to blame Obama and his supporters for the situation she's in now. I've also heard people say because she is a woman and a Democrat, I should automatically vote for her. This election isn't about gender or race, it's about the future of our county.

Since last spring I have supported Obama, donated to his campaign and volunteered time and effort. All I can say is I hope some of the people who don't support him now, will think about it.

[rodeodance]

21. Condensending mocking post. Figures!

[KansasVoter]

24. How is it mocking? (eom)

[rodeodance]

32. Read you post--If you can't figure it out you are clueless

[KansasVoter]

33. And if you can't explain it you are more clueless! (eom)

[BuyingThyme]

22. On the day Hillary fielded her first fake question from her first fake questioner,

she compromised every one of her followers.

They had a choice to make. They could quit Hillary, or they could find somebody else to blame for what Hillary has become.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

28. Keep your pity ... you'll need it.

[Nine]

29. Wrong.

"So it really is this simple: Obama fans don’t like Hillary for how she acted in this election. Hillary fans don’t like Obama because he stole this nomination from Hillary."

Wrong. I don't like how Obama has acted in this election. And I really, really don't like how some Obama supporters have acted.

I was not a Hillary supporter from the start. I was a mild Edwards supporter but more than anything I was an any-Democrat supporter; I thought we had many good candidates and all better than the Republican candidates. I did not choose Hillary until shortly before the Ohio primary. I first tried to figure out which of the two had a better chance of winning the GE, but I abandoned that because I honestly didn't know who had a better chance. They both have pros and cons in terms of electability. Besides, so much can happen between a primary and the GE. Kerry had seemed like a strong candidate on paper and he didn't fare as well as expected; he was certainly the last candidate you'd expect to see attacked for his patriotism. So I looked in my heart and asked who I really thought would work harder, use good strategy, be best able to respond to a crisis (basically the 3am phone call question, but this was before the ad came out), etc. I chose Hillary. Not so much because Obama had done a lot wrong but because I felt he hadn't done much of anything, certainly nothing remarkable or noteworthy as US Senator.

I don't blame Obama for doing well. I do blame him for playing dirty while pointing his finger at Hillary. The treatment of Hillary Clinton - not my supported candidate until quite recently - has made me extremely bitter, I fear. If Obama wins the nom, I plan to vote for him in November, of course. I voted for Kerry and even made a sizable donation, but I never much liked him. But I worry that the tactics of the Obama camp have driven away a lot of good Dems and hurt our chances in the fall.

[KansasVoter]

30. You named NOTHING Obama did dirty. Please expand! (eom)

[indimuse]

36. LIED!

Everyday he LIES!

Rezko:: And ALL THAT brings...Truth coming out everyday, NOT from Barack!
Wright: Please...Do you really believe his grand lie..to you...to the nation???
Amounts of $$$ raised and donated to his campaign...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5425007&mesg_id=5425007


Obama is a PRO LIAR!

[Nine]

43. Do you really want me to?

His race-baiting for one. That's a huge one for me. http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

But I don't want to get into a recounting of his whole campaign. I only wanted to challenge the OP's claim that Clinton supporters were only upset about Obama doing well. Hillary wasn't my candidate until recently, so it's not like I have some blind Hillary devotion that skews my perspective. The Drudge photo thing was one of the first things that disappointed me about the Obama campaign, and I've learned about other things since then that have only reinforced my belief that I chose the better person.

And I did mention DU Obama supporters. I don't think there's any question that in my short time on this board, the Obama supporters have on the whole been far more obnoxious, hateful, and rabid than the Hillary supporters, even though both sides have their good eggs and bad eggs. Some of it may be that the Obama supporters greatly outnumber the Clinton supporters (and I understand many of them have been driven off by the hatred). It may also have to do with the fact that I joined after Obama had a series of wins; there was a lot of gloating at the time I joined, and I've always found gloating to be one of the most obnoxious and ungracious behaviors there is. But I think most of it is just the tone of many of the Obama supporter attacks on Clinton - name-calling, criticizing her appearance, sexism and the refusal to acknowledge such, repetition of right-wing talking points, etc. The criticisms of Clinton that focus on policy, issues, voting record, etc. seem few and far between.

[KansasVoter]

31. Still waiting!

[Recursion]

37. You seem to be saying he's much more politically adept than her

Isn't that the kind of person we want running?

[Nine]

45. Not exactly.

I think he has the advantage of MSM hatred of the Clintons, the support of DNC high-ups like Dean, the blind adoration of many "liberal" media/entertainers. Yes, the MSM Clinton hatred is a disadvantage for Hillary, but they'll turn on Obama if he becomes the nominee.

Do a search on the DAILY HOWLER, which covers much of the irrational Clinton hatred in the MSM.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh111907.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh012508.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh012308.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh013108.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh020108.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh020508.shtml

[Hepburn]

51. This is your source of political info?

:eyes:

[Dawgs]

40. Again, not one f'n example.

How many times are we going to see this same kind of post.

'I don't like Obama because of what he did to Hillary' has been posted so many times it's embarrassing. Yet, almost never do we get an example of 'what he did'.

[Perry Logan]

35. A simple apology will suffice.

And you could help mop this place up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5120659

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779500&mesg_id=4779500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849238&mesg_id=4849238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4922044&mesg_id=4922044

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4942967&mesg_id=4942967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4964704&mesg_id=4964704

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965088

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4982708&mesg_id=4982708

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5036756

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5065868&mesg_id=5065868

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5156352&mesg_id=5156412

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5165104&mesg_id=5165104

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5180133&mesg_id=5181094

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5195072&mesg_id=5195072

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5204441&mesg_id=5204441

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5214352&mesg_id=5214352

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5226313&mesg_id=5226313

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5235825&mesg_id=5235825

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5304883

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5349292&mesg_id=5349292

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5392998&mesg_id=5392998

[psychopomp]

44. A good summary of how we got here

I think a lot of Sen. Clinton's supporters would have resented any person who successfully one-upped their candidate.

In his speeches and public statements I have seen nothing to indicate that he has run anything but a classy campaign against his rival. I would be interested in a link to anything untoward he has said about Sen. Clinton in this campaign.

[madwivoter]

46. K & R!

Very well said!!

:kick:

[DemVet]

47. Obama's "Change" message is just fluff without any real substance.

Oba-maniacs are too blinded to see that, however.

[KansasVoter]

52. LOL....you sound like Hillary!! Hillary is old school washington! (eom)

[mtnsnake]

48. Tell us all about it when Obama doesn't even win half the blue states if he gets to the GE

You'll be finding out the hard way that buying into the media's feverish Obama sales pitch during the Primaries was not such a good idea when he loses in a landslide to gumpy old John McCain. Only then will you realize that you lived an illusion set up by the media and a few idolmakers. Suckers

[KansasVoter]

53. And Hillary would do better??? LOL....the GOP is begging for her!

[Bullet1987]

50. It's the old school yard thing going on between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters

Clinton used to be popular and the one everyone looked to...now this new kid in town with the funny name is taking all the attention and they're having a hissy-fit. I also think a lot of Clinton's supporters bought into the Clinton Coronation meme and that's what makes this period so hard for them. Obama is just an outlet to release all their anger and frustration...it's not really based on anything he did per se (because he hasn't done anything to be honest with you...nothing nearly comparable to Clinton's multiple kitchen sinks). Another myth they constantly repeat is that the media is pro-Obama and has been giving him a free ride. To believe this, you would have to have been living under a rock all those months prior to Iowa. Truthfully, when this race is over and the emotions die down...they'll begin to acknowledge the huge problems within the Clinton campaign itself that led to her ultimate loss. Obama is just a convinient excuse right now.

[Enrique]

54. no need to feel sorry for me

I'll be happy if Obama gets the nomination, I like him. I prefer Hillary.

[KansasVoter]

58. Thank you! And I like Hillary. I'd vote for her in a second if she wins!

[quantass]

56. Vrery good post...all Hillary supporters should read this...Greatest Page rec for you

[Bake]

59. It's a very condescending post.

Especially the closing, that we'd better "get in line." Your candidate may not do too well if we don't. I would think something more magnanimous might be in order.

Bake

[KansasVoter]

63. Sorry. I should have changed it.

[redqueen]

60. K&R!

:thumbsup: