Hmmmmmmmm... Interesting link

[ernestv]

Looks like Hillary Clinton wasn't the only Democrat to vote for the war resolution, including senators who are now some of obama's most fervent supporters... like dare I say it... John Kerry

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&vote=00237&session=2

[anonymous171]

1. Yes. Remember how that vote worked against him in the GE?

[ernestv]

5. Didn't work against him for the nomination...

huh??

[democrattotheend]

13. Are you kidding me?

If Kerry had voted against the war most of us probably never would have heard of Howard Dean. Dean's candidacy never would have gotten off the ground if Kerry had voted against the Iraq War Resolution.

[karynnj]

34. Actually it likely did - but he still won even the people who said

that Iraq was the top issue and were antiwar. Thought it would be hard to have an easier nomination run than he did - it might have been easier. (Though there was also some real bad luck there. In January 23 Kerry spoke against rushing to war - saying there was more diplomacy that could be done and the inspections were productive. Kerry missed the big DNC event where all the candidates spoke in February 2003. Dean gave a rousing anti-war speech. Kerry had surgery for cancer the week before. Had he been there, his speech would have likely been similar to what he had been saying and it would very likely have been competitive with Dean's.

Voting AGAINST it might have hurt in the general election. He would then have been portrayed as the man who protested Vietnam, the Contras, who read anti-war poetry on the Senate floor in 1990 or 1991 - he would have been said to be too much a pacifist to protect the country. (He personally might have been happier - as it was clear even in 2004 that he hated that vote.)

[karynnj]

28. No - it didn't

He got the anti-war vote - there were 9 million more voters for him than Gore in 2000 and the third parties did not get many votes. In 2004, there were not sufficient people voting against the war. Kerry also won some people who were for the war, but thought he would do a better job than Bush. The other thing is that Kerry actually won the antiwar vote in the primaries - even in Iowa and NH. Largely because Kerry through the first half of 2003 was labeled anti-war by the media because he was.

Both Kerry and HRC voted for the IWR, but the similarity ends there. Kerry, not HRC had been a voice in summer 2002 against Bush unilaterally taking us to was based on the terror authorization. HRC is now claiming that her vote was for the reasons Kerry enumerated in his IWR speech - but Kerry said that if Bush backed away from following the process he had said he would follow, he would be the first to speak out - and he did speak out - including a major speech on January 23 - HRC didn't. He is on record as being against invading before the invasions. Once we were in, we needed a strategy - which he spoke of at NYU in early September 2004. His plan would likely have had a withdrawal starting in late 2005.

In addition, Kerry's Iraq plans have had very consistent components - changing as things have changed on the ground. He spoke against permanent bases - in the first debate with Bush - the first time I ever heard there was such an issue. He called for Rumsfeld's resignation in 2003 and again in 2004, when details of Abu Ghraib came out. HRC was silent then on both. Saying as Kerry did in 2004 that it was not a war of last resort says that he thought it an unjust war - and immoral - which is as strong as anything said by anyone else.

Kerry has consistently led with other Democrats who wanted an exit plan - HRC vilified him behind the scenes. In fact, Obama voted against Kerry/Feingold, a version of which became the Democratic plan almost immediately after the 2006 elections. (Note Edwards was not willing to put his blessing behind it in summer 2006 either.) Kerry has also said many many times that the vote was wrong and he has worked at least as hard as anyone on getting us out.

[sniffa]

2. You've really socked it to them

:thumbsup:

[libnnc]

10. *snarf*

:spray:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Just figured this out, did you?

Not old enough to remember four years ago?

[ernestv]

7. just a reminder for people like you...

...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Good thing I'm not voting for Kerry.

Or anybody else who voted for the IWR.

[ernestv]

16. So you didn't vote for him in 2004...

...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Sure I voted for him in 2004.

That's because his opponent was George W. Bush.

[democrattotheend]

22. Not in the primaries

Actually, I did not even vote in the primaries, because it was June and Kerry had the nomination wrapped up and Dean was not still on the ballot. I was active volunteering for Dean before most people had even heard of him.

Of course I voted for Kerry in the general, and I would vote for Clinton in the general if she gets the nomination. I strongly disagree with those Obama supporters who say they won't. But her Iraq war vote is a very valid consideration in the primary, just as Kerry's was, and nearly cost him the nomination 4 years ago. If he had voted against the resolution Dean's candidacy never would have gotten off the ground.

[ernestv]

25. Get real.. it did not nearly cost him the nomination or the GE...

John Edwards it seems also voted for the IWR....

[gateley]

29. A LOT of senators voted for the IWR

and they were ALL wrong.

MOST appear, though, to have learned a lesson and voted against Kyl-Lieberman. Most, but not all.

It's 2008. We've been there five years and we know who did and did not vote for it. Our focus needs to be on getting us OUT.

[blm]

19. Did you know HRC didn't stand WITH Kerry when he said weapon inspections are working, Bush need not

invade Iraq, and he said that repeatedly before, during and after Bush's invasion?

Did you know HRC chose to stand WITH Bush's decision, as did Bill who supported him repeatedly and PUBLICLY during high profile TV interviews?

[cali]

48. Leahy

and/Kennedy/voted/for/the/war?

nope.

[Blarch]

4. Oh ya.

We all forgot he voted for the war. :sarcasm:

[ernestv]

18. yeah along with a lot of other obama supporters...

....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. What makes you say that?

Seems to me everybody here remembers.

:shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

6. Who did you vote for in 2004? Just asking?

[ernestv]

12. Kerry of course...

I also met him at his event in Detroit...
Now I can understand why he lost...

[democrattotheend]

9. Trust me, I've given Kerry plenty of grief for voting for the Iraq War

And I still believe that if he had voted against it there's a good chance he'd be president today. But he's already lost an election, possibly because of it. He's not running again, and he has apologized for his vote many times. He also criticized the decision to go ahead with the invasion when it began, which Clinton did not. I don't completely let Kerry off the hook, but since he is not running for president again, I think it's fair to say that he has been criticized for it enough.

[JayFredMuggs]

17. Yes, criticized enough, even though he admitted it was a mistake

And condemned so much of what Bush did with that "ultimatum" before Bush could have allowed the inspectors to stay and finish the job.

[blm]

11. Difference is that Kerry stood against the DECISION to invade before, during and after because

weapon inspections were WORKING to prove force was not needed.

Hillary did not. She would not side with Kerry on that even when he was the known nominee.

Don't you think those who voted for IWR had a special duty to call out Bush when he refused to acknowledge the weapon inspections were working and invaded anyway?

[Lucky 13]

14. This was news 5 years ago. Try to keep up.

sheesh.

[ernestv]

23. Yeah that reply makes a lot of sense...

pshaw...

[chascarrillo]

15. Strangely enough, Clinton is the only Democratic candidate left who voted for it.

Interesting, indeed.

[ernestv]

21. Thats what most people here would like to believe...

...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Uh...

is there another democratic candidate still running that also voted for the IWR and the lie-bural media isn't telling us about?

[tyedyeto]

41. Which Democratic Senator are you talking about?

AFAIK, Clinton is the only one left in the race who voted FOR it.

[sniffa]

42. HA! YOU'RE WRONG

John Edwards voted for it, and his campaign is only suspended. Now, don't all you Obamites feel stupid?

[tyedyeto]

45. Suspended? Where'd you pull that one out of? n/t

[sniffa]

46. His lips

[tyedyeto]

49. Link please? n/t

[DJ13]

26. Wow, welcome to 6 months ago

just woke up?

[ernestv]

27. just a reminder for people like you...

and by the way it was 6 years ago...

[gateley]

30. Hmmmmmm. Interesting link

Kyl-Lieberman -

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00349


Some people never learn :eyes: Others do.

[Lucky 13]

32. Let it sink.

I seriously think this guy has a screw loose. He's not making any sense. We need to back off of the poor guy and let it sink.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Did you see his comment about bowling?

Best laugh I had all day.

[Lucky 13]

35. No I must have missed that one.

I'm sure it was a zinger though! He told us!

:rofl:

[sniffa]

37. How dare you say that about a DUer who's been here since 2001

[Lucky 13]

39. 2001 eh?

And only 30 posts? why suddenly so vocal? and profoundly dense?

[sniffa]

40. Good question

Most know the answer.

[Bensthename]

36. Are you serious with this post? You're dissing Kerry for endorsing Obama? Amazing.

And I think 99.99% of the people here know about Kerry's vote.. And having Kerry on Obama's side is the shizzle my nizzle.

[GOTV]

38. That's news to you? Did you just arrive on this planet since 2004? n/t

[Barack_America]

43. Welcome back!

:hi:

[Adelante]

44. He didn't!!

Say it isn't so :wow:

[McCamy Taylor]

47. No, no Clinton is the only member of Congress who voted for it. Its HER war.

Tweety said so. And so did Arianna Huffington. It is the only thing they can agree on.

:rofl: