Should the details of Laura Bush's abortions be publicized?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

[hlthe2b]

1. How do we know about "them" (and what do we know?)

I hadn't seen anything written on this...

[Senior citizen]

7. Now, now

None of the things we know for sure and have documented fully have ever had an impact.....

This is a highly sensitive, personal and private matter, so I think we should follow the pukes example and publicize it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

84. LOL!

The GOP sets such high standards!

[Wickerman]

2. yeah, i suppose they should

this is news to me.

[boobooday]

3. Yes, details please!

Is this coming out from Neil's wife?

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Padraig18]

4. No.

AFAIK, there's no evidence that she's had one.

[wtmusic]

5. Absolutely not

People...people...

Do you have a right to privacy? Does she?

Come off it.

[physioex]

9. I hope you are being sarcastic...

This family has worked to deny the rights for a poor teenage girl to have abortion as an option if she makes a mistake or in the case of rape. Yet if this is true, she does exactly the opposite of what is being preached. Make the information public, we have a right to know if they are hypocrites...

[wtmusic]

11. Are you working for right to choose? Can we have your history, please?

All I have to say.

[physioex]

16. This isn't about me...

As far as I am concerned, I am pro-life when it comes to me. But I am pro-choice when it comes to another human being. Do I support a right to choose cause directly? NO But I am active in liberal causes, that have this as part of their agenda.

[wtmusic]

38. Great. Now please tell us your personal history,

so we know you're not a hypocrite.

*waiting*

[physioex]

47. Ahhh...I see your strategy...

Invade my privacy and I will back off...Here is the deal, you stay outta my life and I will stay outta yours. (I am not talking about you personally btw) They want to tell me what MY private choices are, so why should I givem them theirs?

You know what true conservatism is? It stands for getting government out of peoples lives. I am probably more conservative than the residents of this White House.

[wtmusic]

48. But somehow you feel it's fair to invade Laura Bush's privacy

Is there a separate Bill of Rights for those in government? You have no qualms about not "staying outta" her life

[physioex]

50. It's only fair...

When they invade mine....read my post carefully.....Screw the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. They threw it out when they spent $700 million on Iraq illegally...

[wtmusic]

51. Weak

"screw the Bill of Rights and the Constitution"? You want to retract that, or do we need to follow this to it's logical end?

The tit-for-tat thing most people give up at age 5. :eyes:

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Leprechan29]

60. Everyone has a right to medical privacy

As long as that does not affect how the country is operated. For instance, Cheney's health should be a matter of public record as far as it concerns his ability to stay competent (medically).

The idea that an abortion (even of such a political figure) should be public record is absurd - even the first lady deserves that much privacy.

Again - No double standards.

[MASSAFRA]

6. The only thing that I would want to be public

is the hypocrisy of the Pro-lifer going and ending a pregnancy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

77. Supposedly Laura Bush is pro-choice

I remember that came out a day or two after the inauguration, and at the time I got my hopes up that maybe Laura wasn't going to be such a Stepford wife after all. Oh well.

[slinkerwink]

8. NO!

Every abortion should be PRIVATE regardless of the political identity of the woman involved.

[physioex]

10. Sorry, but in my opinion they are hypocrites....

They preech one thing for votes, and deny the poor the right to choose. Yet in the background, they are doing the opposite. To bad, they chose the limelight.... Let's face it, this pro-life thing is just a movement to deny the poor the right to choose. The rich can easily fly over the border and break all the rules...

[slinkerwink]

15. NO! No means NO! I will stand up for EVERY woman's right to

PRIVACY!

[physioex]

18. You choose your sides...

I've chosen mine. I agree with the right to privacy no problems there. But privacy goes out the door when they start denying me of my rights.

[Mojambo]

27. Just to be clear, they are TRYING to

deny you your rights.
Thankfully they haven't made much ground because we have the truth on our side.
We are RIGHT. We don't need to do it their way.

[Mojambo]

13. Agreed

We just went through this debate the other day with the question of whether to out a right-winger who was gay...

The right to privacy in my mind trumps the the right to expose the hypocrisy. We should (and we will) be able to win this debate by the strength of our conviction and the rightness of our arguments.

There simply is no need to slide down to the level of our enemies because then even if we win, we lose.

JMO

[physioex]

24. Your right to privacy is important...

But not when you are denying me my right to choose...In another words stay outta my business and I will stay outta yours..And isn't it funny that is the "true conservative" mantra...

[Mojambo]

25. I wasn't aware I was in yours?

[physioex]

26. I wasn't talking about you...

I was talking about anyone who feels I didn't have the right to choose.... :bounce: :)

[Mojambo]

28. My bad

I was confused because you replied to my post directly.

[demosincebirth]

79. Every sex act, between concenting adults, should be private, also.

Remember Clinton's impeachment? What was that about? I say give 'em no quarter! Everything is fair game in politics. They expouse their virtues, why not the opposite? If the shoe was on the other foot, the REpugs would be on it like gangbusters.

[MikeG]

12. Isn't this like outing gay conservatives...

which I got flamed for advocating two weeks ago?

And still bear the scars from.

[Senior citizen]

19. WTF?!!!!!

(Edited entire post because it wasn't strong enough.)


After the THOUSANDS of gays and lesbians who were booted out of the military or lost their jobs because they were outed by conservatives, somebody on THIS board is telling you it's wrong to out a gay freeper? :wtf:


:kick: :kick:

[MikeG]

30. The post is about two weeks old - use your search function.

Yeah. And you would not believe how strident the debate was in favor of not outing.

[Senior citizen]

14. If it happened,

it was probably back when * was boozin' and doing coke and they almost got divorced.

And if it didn't happen, at least we didn't spend millions of dollars on an "independent" counsel to investigate it.

If all 45,000 of us worked on it full time, we couldn't come up with half as many smears as the pukes did against the Clintons. What are we, slow learners?

:kick:

[hlthe2b]

17. Seriously, what prompted this thread? Are we confusing Larry Flynt's

attempts to publicize Bush* payment of an abortion for his then girlfriend (who has been identified, but refuses to discuss and is NOT Laura). Or is this something new?

I'm not saying we should or should not publicize Laura's event, although Bush's payment for an abortion for his girlfriend (which I believe would have been illegal at that time)is a different matter.

[Senior citizen]

22. Who cares?

Just spin it.

Or you can play nice--and lose again.

[DBoon]

20. Only if John Ashcroft requires it

http://www.watchingjustice.org/reports/brief.php?docId=177

[CharlesGroce]

21. none of our business really and

discreditation is a Republican strategy. The principles of the matter (abortion) are enough to win the argument once and for all, that is, if the Democratic leadership had the gust or gumption to demand it's debate.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. If a Blow Job isn't private

neither is this. Absolutely. Dish all the dirty little secrets. They would!

[IconoclastIlene]

74. Damn straight "they" would have a field-day

with any kind of sordid information.....not that we should sink that low...but hell, all is fair in love and war, and this isn't a love fest, is it?

[FleshCartoon]

29. No one's abortion(s)...

...should be publicized.

[Senior citizen]

33. No one's blow job should either--

but that's politics these days. We want the guy out who wants to ban all abortions, and if it takes an abortion to get him out, go for it.

[FleshCartoon]

35. I don't agree...

...that acting as petty as they do will benefit anyone.

Besides, as a woman, I'd rather not set a precedent for having the details of abortions made public. That bit of strategy is liable to turn on us, should we opt for it.

[wtmusic]

39. So co-opting reprehensible RW tactics is OK now?

Instead--let's do what's right.

[robbedvoter]

40. Who's coopting? I want the truth, not make up lies.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. We did what was right in the mid-term election

and lost....big time! The politicians were afraid to be called "unpatriotic" so they voted for the damn war AND the Patriot Act. They were afraid to be seen as "not supporting the troops" and they were afraid of "You're either with us or you're against us"....look at where it got us. No, it's time to play by THEIR rules. No more nice guy crap. The Dems need some balls from now on. We spent 8 years watching them try to destroy Clinton. This is only fair game. No, it's not pretty, but it is modern day politics and we should play it the repub way....reprehensibly. IMCPO

[wtmusic]

42. Nope

If you want to take the low road feel free. Join them. That's what makes Dems different IMO.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. Go ahead. Take the high road

and we lose in Nov. It's that simple. Are the repubs going to take the high road? Hell no they won't! Neither should we.

[wtmusic]

49. Cool

I'm on board, but how far ya think we should go with this 'personal attack' thing? Maybe make up some shit like Republicans do too, huh? Distort, lie...hell, do we really need to draw a line?

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. Just the facts. Just the facts.

Truth. If the truth hurts them? So be it. :shrug:

[hippywife]

62. What was right?

How was voting for the PA and the IWR doing what was right? By your own post, they did it out of cowardice.

And for the record, I vote no on exposing any woman's abortion or any person's medical information.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. What they "thought" was right

for their political careers. They were wimps. They kowtowed to the repub rhetoric and we lost.

[AgadorSparticus]

31. part of that privacy goes out the door when you are a public figure.

just to be expected. i think it should be disclosed--esp. if she takes a public podium on that issue. she opens herself up for scrutiny. you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

[DarbyUSMC]

32. Maybe you are speaking of miscarriages rather than abortions?

I have no idea if she had a miscarriage but they were about to adopt due to problems getting preg. when she found she was preg. with the twins. Some people, for some reason, use the word abortion when speaking of miscarriages. Miscarriages can leave women feeling like a failure, inadequate, not a total woman and many other things. It's tragic to lose a baby whether you call it a fetus or something else. When you lose it, it's a baby.

[robbedvoter]

36. They actually adopted and returned the kid after she got pregnant

From todays POW, that was one lucky kid - but as far as parents of the year...anyway, nice try putting a nice spin on that POS!

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. They adopted a child and returned it???

What? A K-Mart kid? Get a refund? That's dispicable...IMO. Children are NOT disposable. However, the child must have had "someone" watching over him/her to get him/her away from the chimp.

[robbedvoter]

66. Right. More revealing than miscarriages/abortions

Shows what "compassionate conservatism" really is.

[troublemaker]

86. Not true. Refuted here at DU.

They *considered* adopting a child before finding out Laura was pregnant. (And no, I don't have a link.)

[Gildor Inglorion]

37. A miscarriage is a "spontaneous" abortion

as opposed to an "induced" abortion (the voluntary kind). The results of either are referred to pathologically as "products of conception."

[LandOLincoln]

54. People use the word abortion when speaking of

miscarriages because that's the proper medical terminology. A miscarriage is a "spontaneous abortion."

[robbedvoter]

34. She presumes to teach me how to be a good parent - everything is fair game

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. I didn't ask this...

What are the details of her supposed abortions? When? why? what? where? who? how? :shrug: I've never heard anything about this. Do you have specifics?

[minkyboodle]

46. No

we must be consistent and defend everyone's right to privacy on these issues.

[hlthe2b]

55. Feanorcurufinwe, several posters have asked for clarification....

Won't you please respond?

[Dying Eagle]

56. YES

Repukes would do it to Kerry i a hartbeat, we need to start playing by thier rules.

[rasputin1952]

57. Wow...lot's to look at here, a regular Pandora's Box...

I look at it this way:

1. If Ashcroft can demand the Medical Records of women who may have had abortions, as he is trying to do; then Laura Bush's records should be made available as well.

2. There is no proof that LB had an abortion, until there is, it is merely a rumor, nothing more.

3. Most importantly, the medical privacy of everyone in this nation is of paramount importance. I see NO reason for any woman's right to privacy to be violated because some radical fringe of the religious right seems to think they have a stranglehold on morality.

4. If the bush's actually did adopt a child, then 'return' it after LB was found pregnant, that is despicable.

5. Even though I have little respect for LB, I see this issue a slight to females. In my view, it is one more way to denigrate women to a second-class status, something I find intolerable. We are all citizens of this nation, and to treat women differently goes against the grain of all I believe in. The entire issue of abortion is anti-female.


Here is where things get ponderous. Let us say the RR gets to turn back the clock, and declares abortion illegal, all abortion. For there to be a law, there must be consequences; what would they be, and to whom would they apply?

Would abortion be murder? Then it would have to be pre-meditated. Life in prison or death? Would the Doctor be tried as a murderer? Would the woman having the procedure? Do nurses and staff become held to the charge of conspiracy or aiding and abetting murder?

This leaves us with 'underground' abortions, more women die in botched attempts. Again, penalties under the law?

Laws stop only the honest, or those that get caught being dishonest.
A Stop sign never stopped anyone at a crossroad; it suggested that they stop, but no sign ever jumped out and halted a car or truck. The part that made stopping at the sign was the consequences of breaking said law, a fine usually, in this case. But people still don't stop at Stop signs....a law must be respected to be effective.

Back to LB...I respect her right to her privacy...to a point. She has no more privacy than any other woman in the situation described in the OP. If others are forced to give up information, she can claim no right to privacy, no 'executive privilege', no 'special clause'. The rights to a persons sexual life are their own...unless they are victimized.

BTW: RU 486 would end the entire abortion debate.

Just my $2.02, as a member of DU...:)

[MessiahRp]

67. Great post...

I agree quite completely..

I would add, that if she DID have an abortion, and at this point it is purely speculatory, then this wouldn't be something that any candidate should touch with a ten foot pole.

Frankly this is a Planned Parenthood issue. They can run a commercial with the Bushes railing against Abortion, put up all the anti-abortion bills he has pushed through, and then put up a picture of the Bushes together with a date of their own abortion.

Again this is based off a rumor at most, but a 527 would have to use this one to attack Bush, and it will be a bitter partisan issue if it ever airs, but it would most definitely be a condemnation of the Bushes for being hypocrites.

The other side of the coin is that the Right Wing Media could turn this issue against us. They could take our very defense of the issue and turn it on us, like how dare we attack a very personal and very private decision in Laura's life, playing the Bushes' as the victims.

As ridiculous as it is, this Administration is 100% manipulation, and they play Americans big time on every issue they can, I can so see them do the very same here (and then tie her change of heart into her religious beliefs).

Rp

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. I like that idea!

Frankly this is a Planned Parenthood issue. They can run a commercial with the Bushes railing against Abortion, put up all the anti-abortion bills he has pushed through, and then put up a picture of the Bushes together with a date of their own abortion.

Perfect way to deal with this, if it's true she did have an abortion that is.

[lanparty]

58. If she is anti-abortion ...

Yes.

[notbush]

59. This whole thread is a piece of crap that DU'ers should not sink to.

This isn't political dialog , it's political character assasination....Aren't we better than this?

[rasputin1952]

61. You make a valid observation...

but it goes back to recent history...character assassination breeds character assassination...it is a GOP strongpoint to crush the opposition with supposition. They have no other options, the neo-con wing has destroyed the GOP, they cannot stand on legacy; and they know character assassination works.

As you sow, so shall you reap.

[hlthe2b]

70. Yes... agree... throwing out provocative acusations with no supporting

documentation amounts only to one thing-- character assasination. Had the intent been to ask a "what if," it should have been clearly labeled as such.

I'm not accepting a "Pollyanna" label, but rather would argue that fighting tough does not need to include unfounded serious attacks on the family members of our opponents.

[enki23]

75. i, for one, am entirely in favor of it

after the situation with hillary... laura bush is very, very fair game.

[Lefty Pragmatist]

63. Ethics and morality are more important than party politics.

Party politics is how we fight for what we believe in. Rights and liberties *are* what we believe in.

If Laura Bush has no right of privacy, then none of us do.

[bklyncowgirl]

64. No. It invades her privacy and it's lousy politics

Going after Laura is bad, bad, bad.

We might get the satisfaction of outing a pair of hypocrites but while some my be outraged by the hypocricy, many more would be outraged by the revelation.

Laura Bush's medical records are a private matter. This is a principle that we should not compromise. The only time a person's medical records should become public matters is if they effect his or her abilty to do a job that could effect public safety. Do I want to know if my airline pilot has a drinking problem--yes. Do I want to know if my president has a drinking problem--yes.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

65. I always thought Laura Bush was pro-choice n/t

[Zynx]

71. That's a private matter.

Of course, if she allows Bush to be a hypocrite on the issue, maybe not.

[LiberalBushFan]

72. No.

Every woman deserves the right to privacy, even mass murderers. So let's not sink to their level. Let's let them win another election instead so they can kill more people.

[LiberalFighter]

73. Depends...

YES if she is anti-choice for herself and everyone else

NO if she is anti-choice for herself but pro-choice for everyone else

[JNelson6563]

76. let's talk homicide instead

like running over your ex-boyfriend kind of thing.

I'd call that fair game.

Julie

[TNMOM]

78. Yes. Lumpy is fair game

The right has claimed moral superiority over the rest of us. Let's let the facts bear out. If Lump and Chimp are f'g hyprocrites, they should be exposed.

After all the shit they dish out about liberals' situational ethics, I relish the day Lump and Chimp have to explain their decision to abort and then deprive others of the same right to chose.

These are the rules they brought to the game, and if we're going to win, we have to play by their rules.

[MoonRiver]

80. Why not? She's a wife, not a kid. Pukes sure aren't leaving Teresa alone

Btw, how many did she have? You said abortionS.

[TexasSissy]

81. What abortions? Is this a joke?

[mandyky]

82. Ahem, she was a Dem at one time

and I thought Dems were prochoice/privacy. She ain't running for anything, her idiot hubby is.

[BabsSong]

83. Fuck rights--I'm too old to chose anything--I just want to know if

there really is a credible story out their about the Bush's flushing a kid. And I really would like to know about that ultra-strange "emergency appendectemy" that that blonde bimbo twin had during the campaign 2000 when Bush didn't bother going to her bedside in order to play golf and neither did Laura. I wonder what in the region of the appendix was taken out---I'd like to see X-rays of whether or not she still has an appendix. Watched 4 years of this Bush and 4 of his daddy do horrible things to people. If they even shit wrong, I want it public. I'll defend "people's rights"--I won't defend anti-democracy Nazis' rights.

[Claire Beth]

85. she had an abortion????? n/t