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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:44 PM
Original message
is anyone going to vote based on vp ?
i have seen some posts say they will not vote for kerry if he picks edwards as his vp. is there anyone who is basing their vote on who kerry picks for vp or who he doesn't pick ?
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am voting, like I suspect most everyone here is voting,
I am voting for the candidate who I think has the best chance of pulling the shrub from the garden.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes.
If he chooses McCain...I will NOT vote for him. Period.
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Have fun in Camp X-Ray. I hear they're putting in a jacuzi!
I know you probably don't mean this deep down, but keep in mind that impressionable young people read these posts sometimes.

Even if Kerry picked James Inhofe (my current least favorite Republican) it would still be as morally clear-cut a choice as an American voter has faced in 144 years.

Not that Kerry will pick Inhofe, of course. But if that choice was a fait accompli I cannot see why anyone would vote against it.

Take one tiny instance: John Paul Stevens would probably resign the supreme court shortly after Kerry's inaugural to be replaced by moderate Democrat instead of another Scalia. Probably someone like Breyer, so a small rightward shift for the court as opposed to a new nut-right majority.

Even if one assumed that a Kerry/Inhofe presidency would be exactly the same as Bush/Cheney to the last detail except for that one appointment it would still make the choice beyond obvious.

I cannot believe there is anyone on DU who, if given the choice who replaces Stevens, would opt for another Scalia just to spare a bruising of their principles or to send a message to the DLC.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. Deep down, I DO mean that!
:wtf: We have highly intelligent, more than qualified Democrats to be our VP and I will not vote for a Kerry/McCain ticket. Repubs stand for EVERYTHING I'm against. Not only that...this is media driven. The MEDIA wants this ticket, not Democrats. :eyes: It will never happen. Kerry would definitely lose my vote and many, many other Democrats AND Independents who lean Dem. THIS IS STUPID! McCain is a REPUBLICAN!!!!!!! He's a REPUBLICAN!!!!!! R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N!! :puke:
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. He's also a fellow veteran, from a southern swing state...
And better than the average Republican. Granted I agree with you 100% that he's a REPUBLICAN and should not be on the DEMOCRATIC ticket for that simple reason. However, even if he were on the ticket, Kerry/McCain is a MUCH better choice than Bush/Chenney in many regards.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. McCain won't get chosen, imho.
There are just too many good Dems to choose from to choose McCain.
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. As long as it's a fellow Dem ...
he's got me at 'hello.' Doesn't matter how I feel about the VP candidate, as long as he rides up on a donkey.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm voting against whichever VP has Bush as a running mate.
Anyone else will be acceptable. . . some more than others.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. for me, with the right vp, it would be like coating a horse capsule
with butter--would make it easier to swallow
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Probably not here at DU, but nationally this will be a rare case where
VP matters. Bush will be so unpopular in a few months that all people need from Kerry is comfort... some reassurance the nation won't slide into the ocean the day he's inaugurated.

Kerry has traits some people detest and if people *want* to vote against him that's enough reason. But the 2004 dynamic is that the entire center will want to vote for Kerry insofar as they will want a change and will be wishing the Dem was appealing enough to allow them to express their anti-incumbent dissatisfied feeling. Some borderline people will be able to hang their hat on a VP they like; particularly if there's any show of good feelings and dynamic cooperation between Kerry and his VP (like the popular Clinton/Gore team in '92)
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well, this is DU, but I'm an Independent
who tends to vote Democratic on a national basis (although, I do like my congressman, a Republican who voted against the Iraqi war).
But, yes, there are a couple of VP picks that Kerry could come up with that would make me write in a vote or vote Libertarian.
I'm just hoping that doesn't happen - it would be a shame since I'm in a Southern swing state - but, yes, I vote for a ticket I like - not against another one.
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Then you consider voting to be something it's not
It's not an opportunity to vote "for" or "against" something, but rather an opportunity to help shape an outcome of an election.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. And that's your opinion.
Not mine.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes. That is his only chance here.
QUOTE:
Bush will be so unpopular in a few months that all people need from Kerry is comfort.
QUOTE:

Don't hang your hat on this. The Republicans are taking some pot shots right now just for kicks and grins but they have not even broken camp yet.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I agree.
They have both barrels loaded and they're ready to fire come Sept. and Oct. We haven't seen the big guns yet.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yeah, I have not even heard yet what man Kerry is having...
...a secret love affair with. :)

*For those that don't know, this was a reference to the Texas Governor's race.
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. When things break down all actions become counter-productive
They will find they can lower Kerry's numbers but cannot raise their own. Bush will keep ticking down week by week until October (with the occasional new item putting bumps in the graph but with quick returns to the trend) Then the race will "tighten" late like Humphrey in '68 and Bob Dole in '96 and Ford in '76... nothing more than reversion to the mean.

Bush isn't really being pushed down by temporary bad news. The news is the same as it's been for two years, it's just magically become damaging. Same thing happened to BUSH I and Carter. Nader may end up polling what he did in 2000 or even do better and still won't help Bush... he will win the Confederacy and not much else.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Voting Democatic party no matter who they put up there
there is no other choice. Must remove Bush and all Repubs that we can. Idealistic is nice but loses what we most value.


If there weren't any bad people in the world, we would have a safe, green, warm environment....unfortunately we instead have Fundamentalist of all kinds who are hell bent on destroying themselves and everyone else who does not believe their God is the one and only and best and brightest......or whatever it is they believe and are willing to destroy life and limb to prove they are pro-life. ha

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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. My very Republican father will vote for Kerry if he picks Clark.
So while I will vote for Kerry no matter what, we can grab "on the fence" people with the right VP pick.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. ANOTHER reason to have Clark as our VP. n/t
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. VP choice has absolutely no influence on my vote. Bush must go...
Kerry is our leader now. We have got to learn to trust his judgement even if we don't agree with it. It is impossible for him to please every one of us.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. Possibley and it will have more effect
on whether I choose to volunteer or expend any effort on behalf of Kerry directly rather than only helping local Democrats. If Kerry chooses a moderate, corporate Democrat I will have to consider voting for Nader and won't spend any time helping the ticket. Control of Congress and the US Senate will be just as important anyway. If Kerry picks a liberal people can get excited about I will actively help the campaign. Someone like Congressman John Lewis or Dick Durbin would be good. I have no intention of enabling a dynasty of corporate Democrat sell-outs with someone like Evan Bayh.
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dae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. It will not matter to me but it will to others, Bush must go.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. I have a Republican customer with real influence (and money)
Who was CEO of a Silicon Valley firm, currently is Chairman of their Board. He voted for Bush last time. I got him interested in Clark, he even donated to Clark's campaign in December. Had Clark won TN he would have offered to convene a gathering of some key Silicon Valley movers and shakers to meet Clark.

This man has had lunch with Cheney, he is influential and he is Republican. Clark is the only Democrat he respects (though he had much more positive feelings about Lieberman than I do). He respects what Clark had achieved in his life, his intelligence, and he sees Clark as level headed and capable of leading.

I am hopeful that if Clark gets the VP nod, I can convince him to still call that meeting. I think I can.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. I've have run into that attitude often
Many a Republican, all thru the campaign, have told me personally, and in other public fora, that they respect Clark, even when they don't agree with him. My own brother, who was for the war (but not crazy about how it's being conducted), told me back in January that he believes Clark opposed the war "for the right reasons" (not like those crazy lefty peaceniks--ummm, sorry... not my opinion, but my brother's).

It also helps that Clark opposed it from the beginning, openly and before Congress, so it doesn't seem like political opportunism as with some who voted for but now are against. And they know that Clark is not against the use of military force, just that it wasn't appropriate against Iraq at the time and under the circumstances of the time. They don't think he fits the sterotype of the "typical" weak-kneed Democrat. Look, it doesn't matter than Democrats are NOT all weak on defense--I'm just talking perceptions.

Now, not all of the Repubs who have expressed all this intend to vote for anyone but Bush, regardless of who's on the ticket. But there are some who will, more because the deficit issue than Iraq or civil liberties, or any of Bush's crimes or lies. They just choose not to believe that latter stuff, I'm sorry to say, and frankly, most don't really care about jobs or healthcare or the problems of the poor, working or otherwise. I don't think they recognize that the working poor exist.

I did have a long conversation with my very conservative but well travelled nephew, who was one of the few Coast Guard officers to serve in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm (he's a "business consultant" now). He doesn't want to vote for Bush because of his fucked-up Iraq policy, but he's genuinely afraid of Kerry's being too "liberal."

When I mentioned Clark as a possible running mate, he said, hey, anyone who Clinton fired is ok with me. LOL--it was probably stupid, but I had to level with him that Clinton didn't fire Clark, Republican SecDef Cohen did. He still likes Clark tho. Don't know if it would be enough to tilt him or not. I'm still working at it--got lots of time 'til November, and don't want to rush it.

Conventional wisdom says that, historically, the VP doesn't matter much in getting votes outside his own state. But I wonder if that's not wrong this year for two reasons:

1) We have such better communications now, more TV news, not just 6pm on three stations, and people are more aware of politics outside their own states. I know most voters don't pay much attention to any of it, but there are more people than ever before who do. And they're just not as parochial as they used to be.

2) Kerry is perceived as more liberal than any Democrat we've run in a long time, far more liberal than I think he is. And being from Massachusetts doesn't help--the state is perceived as the most liberal anywhere. Bush, on the other hand, is perhaps more vulnerable on what are traditionally conservative issues (the deficit and the conduct of the war in Iraq if not the fact of it). We have a unique opportunity to win over many who voted for Bush in 2000, and quite a few who have voted Repub their whole lives, but Kerry may not be the guy to do it, and not thru any fault of his own. That's where the right VP could help. A lot. More than in the past at any rate.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. Not me
Kerry was not my first choice but he our our candidate now and I am 100 percent committed to electing him. I am certain that whoever he choses as running mate will not change that.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. VP Choice Could Help.
Who he selects would help me vote for him.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. Two Senators who voted for the the Iraq War is a very bad idea...
Clark brings a grass roots support base, and a comfort to those who have national security concerns - that includes both Republicans and Democrats. Only McCain brings this to the ticket and guess what...hang it up, he's not going to leave his party.

Edwards, although adored by the majority of Democrats, adds the following slander ammunition to Rove's political trash bin: Trial Lawyer and First Term Senator, who has no experience to step in and take over the Presidency during a war time period.

Who do want to debate Cheney? - Clark or Edwards....

Do you really want Cheney to say on National Television, (once people start to really pay attention)....

But Senator you voted for the war, just like your running mate did???
Why are you complaining.....The pain that the country is currently suffering and I agree is great....is something that you must have contemplated before you voted....

Edwards lets those bastards right off the hook....
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yet another Clarkie
from a swing state.

I think the point I've been making is being proven.

Clarkies are in swing states - and not just on this blog - Tennessee, Ohio, Florida, Arkansas, Arizona, New Mexico.

THIS has always been The Point.

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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
26. No.
He'd have to really try hard to discourage me at this point. The top of the ticket is secure, I don't need assurance in the second spot.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. Probably not.
I don't want a republican vp. Putting McCain on the ticket basically means the only way to not cast a vote for a republican is to go Green or stay home. So I truly empathize with those who say they won't vote for a Kerry/McCain ticket.

Who the vp on the ticket is will not affect my vote; after all, in 2000 I voted for a ticket with Lieberman as vp.

Now if he puts Rush on the ticket, I may have to rethink that. Or Rumsfeld. Or Cheney.

I like John Edwards. I'd be fine with Kerry/Edwards.
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WyLoochka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. I will NOT vote for a ticket
that has McCain in the veep spot - or any spot.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. Evan Bayh. A shill corporate Democrat.
I would have to wake up to many Bloody Mary's to vote this ticket..
Clark recognizes the foolishness and alterior motives of Bush's war..That could unite anti-war Democrats, which is actually over 50% of us... Clark sounded serious about trade issues. He seemed appalled about the conditions of America's "Rust Belt."
Clark might unite us...His military background and seemingly skeptical speeches on Trade will draw in moderates, yet appeal to anti war elements...I think?
Clark is my favorite...Please, not Bayh...Two free traders and two pro war Democrats..Will not encourage unity...I predict Indiana would go Repug. anyway.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
31. A strong anti-war candidate on the ticket will get me to vote for Kerry.
I may have to get an extra-strength clothespin for my nose and large barf bag, but if he should have the brains and courage to pick someone like Kucinich, or even Clark, I'd reluctantly vote for yet another DLC puppet.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. absolutely
the right choice will enable me to hold my nose and vote for Kerry. I will refuse to vote for an anti-choice VP.

And if McCain (an anti-choice Republican) is the choice, I'll not only refuse, but I'll be leaving the Democratic Party.
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