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Why I am no longer sweating the Hillary campaign's small stuff

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:24 PM
Original message
Why I am no longer sweating the Hillary campaign's small stuff
Josh Marshall has a must read post about Hillary staying in the race and her increasingly upping the ante in the campaign:

So when people have asked me whether I think Hillary should drop out I've said I don't think she's under any obligation to do so but that I do think, with her odds now this long, she should not be running a campaign that seems to go out of its way not simply to compete but to damage the likely nominee as a general election candidate and attempt to discredit the nomination process itself.

But when I was writing out my take on her interview over the weekend with Post, I realized that I hadn't made clear enough in what I'd written, or even really in my own head, how much the two things are really combined.

As I said in that post, I don't think Hillary's claim that she's going to stay in the race through the convention in Denver is really about Denver, or staying through August or even till June. It's about keeping her troops motivated and confident so that she can keep in the game through April and May.

And here I think we see the pattern. Hillary doesn't want to run for president in 2nd or 3rd gear. It's beneath her dignity. And I don't mean that sarcastically. It really is. She's a powerful United States senator, former First Lady, etc. She wants to win. And if she's still in it she wants to run full bore with the money you need to run a serious campaign, the crowds, poll numbers, etc. She's not some Huckabee figure who's going to hang around with little chance of winning

It really is all or nothing. You've got to convince your supporters, donors and to at least some degree the media that you're really in it, and in it with a shot. Otherwise you face the classic problem of a cascade failure. Poor fundraising generates bad press stories, which depress turnout at rallies, which create more bad press stories and eventually no press stories, etc. It's no different from the precarious position any campaign faces when the odds aren't looking good.

And so we have this vicious cycle in which the longer Hillary's odds become the further she has to up the ante to keep her candidacy credible -- in other words, the more forcefully she has to question the legitimacy of the nomination process and the more aggressively she has to push the idea that Obama can't win the general election or is not qualified to be president. ...

I think there are a lot of people who would actually like to see the race play out as long as neither candidate is going out of their way to make their opponent unviable in the general. But thinking over what I've said above, I'm just not sure how realistic that is.


Hillary is doing and saying all these outrageous things because she has to in order to survive. That is all. There is no need to get worked up about what she is doing since she has no other choice, except to drop out. The above post is wise and should be the framework to gauge everything she does from now on. Even better would be if the media got an inkling to this strategy to properly interpret their moves, so the masses would get it, too. But even if that doesn't happen, we need to understand she is doing this to stay alive, and nothing we say or do can change this. Except if the voters make it abundantly clear that they have had enough. Until then, this is how it is going to be. If I can add one more piece of wisdom, the Serenity Prayer:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference


We cannot change Hillary's decision to stay in this race, which means being ruthless. What we can change is how we talk and interpret it, and focus on the good that Obama is doing.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not HRC's decison. We want her to continue n/t
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's not her decision?
Then how did anyone else ever withdraw?

Are you guys all holding her at gunpoint? Tied to a chair?

That's ridiculous, of course it's her decision. She's the one running.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. You've never devoted yourself to a cause, have you?
HRC isn't doing this for herself, or she wouldn't bother. We want her to continue and she does.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Do you communicate telepathically? Or are you talking to her on the phone, Fredda?
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TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Don't you know -
it's the three AM hotline.

All the Hillary folks have their 3 AM convo.

Awakened by the sniper fire, what else is there to do?

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. i can just hear the conference call now:
Hillary: Well what do you think? My odds are almost zilch unless I can so damage, smear and put stink on Barack that the delegates decide I'm the only person remotely capable of winning for the Dems. There's a remote long shot chance it could work, but it also might not work and I could push the election, the Supreme Court appointments, and the whole Federal Governmet to the Republicans for another 4 years.

Press 6 on your phone now to vote that I gracefully concede, or press 3 to vote that I fight on.

(minutes pass)

Ok, we have the totals.

Todays message is "We are fighting on. Not for ourselves, but for all the people on this conference call!"

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The Cause is larger than one person. A General Election candidate
has that obligation as the party's standard bearer, not a primary candidate who has clearly lost the nomination. I talk to many people who are truly attached to a great cause, be it the environment, fighting poverty, etc. Most of them are not backing a candidate in this primary. This primary is largely personality driven. I cannot believe you are naive to think Hillary isn't doing this for herself. Those who wish to acquire power always have ego and ambition in their make up. I'm not saying that is all they are about; but it is a component that must be present in a high stakes election like running for POTUS. She is not indispensable.
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. You didn't answer my question.
You said she can't quit. Of course she can.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I highly disagree. It is the candidate's decision. She is the one
who has to go through a daily grueling marathon of a presidential campaign that neither you nor I can fathom. This is her decision, and her decision alone. I went through this myself as a Kerry supporter when he chose not to run back in early 2007, and I accepted his decision because this was a very personal decision for him, as it is for anyone thinking about running for president. It was his family who would be under the microscope not mine. Do you think it is fun for Chelsea to have to field questions about Monica? If Hillary ever decided to pull the plug, supporters would be very unfair to say she owed it to them to stay in. Hey, it's her name on the ballot and she will decide when and if it is ready to throw in the towel.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. All spin aside, its still a tie
and neither candidate has been able to sustain momentum for very long. Its a dead heat and we're in it to win it.

Its also a good opportunity to educate voters about the problems facing our country and which candidate has the best plan and experience to get the job done. There are many differences between the candidates that have been glossed over.

Its also a great way to lure more voters to the Democratic Party.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. You can't deny, however, the largely accepted narrative that
superdelegates do not want to override the pledged delegate winner of the primary season. I am not spinning. I am just giving you the Obama campaign's argument which has been largely adopted by supers, including many Clinton superdelegates. If this remains the CW, then Obama has already won the nomination, because everyone knows that Hillary cannot catch him on pledged delegates.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. A "tie" means that each side is even.
Obama is leading by an insurmountable margin.

No, neither will get the required number of delegates on pledged delegates alone, but it is a near mathematical certainty that, regardless of what Clinton does, Obama will still have more than her...even if this runs all the way to Denver.

It may be relatively close (if you consider a nearly 10% lead this near to the end of the race "close"). That's not the issue. The issue is that it's a near-certain fact that Clinton is still going to come out the loser.

That's not a "tie".
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. No he isn't
Neither candidate has gained an edge in popularity polls, pledged delegates, or the popular vote that they have been able to sustain for successive primaries.

Neither candidate has closed the sale with voters yet, neither has been able to gain and sustain momentum for long.

Trying to use a bogus frame and arbitrary "Obama rules" for determinining victory as an excuse to shove Clinton out of the race is not a winning strategy. If Obama were the superior choice, he should be winning on issues, policy and experience, not tricks.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/31/204510/257
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?
Who has won more of the popular vote? Obama
Who has won more states? Obama
Who has won more pledged delegates? Obama
Who has won more total delegates? Obama

What are Clinton's statistical chances of overcoming ANY of these leads? Less than 10%

Numbers are a bitch.

This is NOT a tie...and these aren't "Obama rules". They're the rules that we ALL use...the rules Clinton herself used until it became apparent that she couldn't win by the rules.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. It's a tie in Pretend World.
That's where the Hillary campaign lives.
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TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Lure?
Well, I'm not ready to set any traps.

That might highlight yet another difference between HRC & BHO supporters.

I'd rather they exercise FREE WILL. Lure - not down with that.


Yes, more Dems are involved at grass roots level in Texas - and they're overwhelmingly Obama.

So, I thank HRC for that. She's bringing in Obama supporters by the millions.

Peace.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Oh, I can fathom ... I've done similarly painful duties. Once I made
my choice, I was committed.

I wouldn't follow anyone less.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. No, you can't. John Kerry, who is an athlete, probably the most athletic
candidate we have had in a long time, said running for president was the most physically grueling thing he has done in his life. Dead tired doesn't begin to describe how candidates must feel every day. And their family and close friends are attacked on TV in very personal ways, not to mention the candidate. Unless you are running for president, no you cannot fathom it.
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Josh Marshall makes some very good points
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:31 PM by Erin Elizabeth
I agree with him. That's exactly what she's doing.

On edit, I'm not sweating her, either, because I honestly don't think she'll be the nom.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I hink he makes some good points, except he doesn't hazard a guess as to why she wants to
stay in through April and May, when her odds are almost non-existent.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. If she destroys Obama, then her odds go up. That is her only
path to the nomination. It is how she survives. Her path to the nomination is to get superdelegates to override the pledged delegate winner of the primary season. This HAS to be her strategy; otherwise her money will dry up and her supporters and volunteers will give up and go home.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Debt. She needs to make sure her donors don't turn off the spigot before she gets some money
to pay down her campaign debts.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Exactly..she's only fooling her donors now..hilary
has to pay off all those debts that her mouthpieces are saying have been paid..bullshit.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I dont mind her upping the ante to motivate her supporters
But I do mind if she goes too far and ends up costing our party the GE.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. The point is she has to go too far. What we consider beyond the pale
is the minimum she must do to stay in on a daily basis. So there is never "too far" if she continues to run, because "too far" is the only way to win, on the backs of superdelegates who will have to override the pledged delegate winner.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. but did you see this?
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Yes, but did you see
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Oh, man that was painful. I'll take the muppets. :) nt
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. *shudder*
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. OMFG, that changes EVERYTHING!!!!! That is a game changer!! nt
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Praising McCain over Obama is not simply "upping the ante"
she can spin herself still being in it, it's silly, but not wrong, per se. She has crossed the line of political decency, though.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. This good advice, beachmom and I
like Lerkfish "consequences", too, especially numero 6.."It damages both candidates, but it damages the loser more in terms of later viability." lerkfish

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5333906

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Key point - "It really is all or nothing."
She is risking more than money and credibility. She is risking her own political future and the future of the Democratic Party. What's more, it's evident that she doesn't care. All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if she launched a "third party" bid when she loses the nomination. Never mind democracy, it's really all about her.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Somebody reminds me a lot of Joe Lieberman.
Of the "Lieberman for Connecticut Party". :(
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
31. Some people just hate to realize the time in the spotlight has past
I also hope she runs as long as she and her supporter think she needs to and just maybe we all learn something from this
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick.
Makes sense. Why sweat the BS? :shrug:

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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R
Thanks beachmom :)
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