I've Heard It From Rendell And Wolfson Today - That Obama Shut Down The Re-Votes In.....

[global1]

Florida and Michigan. They both were very vocal about blaming Obama. What is the real story here? And if the re-vote wasn't shut down by Obama - why don't his campaign staff; surrogates or the media defend him?

[gateley]

1. Kicking --

I'm interested to hear an objective assessment of what's going on.

Thanks to those of you who will sincerely help us out. :hi:

[Yes We Did]

31. Consider the source... Ha Ha Ha... Oh, and about Michigan...

The MI primary has been ruled unconstitutional, so unless Obama was recently annointed a judge... I don't think he had anything to do with it, but keep it up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5270982&mesg_id=5270982

[gateley]

35. If you're SAYING something to me,

I'm missing it -- sorry. :shrug:

[CATagious]

2. Google is your friend. nm

[gateley]

5. So are many here at DU --

and often times their concise assessments help me to understand more clearly.

[lisa58]

3. How else are they going to frame it?

Both candidates had to agree and apparently they didn't - but I haven't heard any details of what was offered and what was refused.

[Cant trust em]

4. Well if you heard it from those two it must be true

I'm not saying that it's not. I don't have any information on that, but these two aren't exactly beacons of bi-partisanship.

Moreover, I think that Rendell should stick to things that happen in Pennsylvania.

[devilindisguise]

6. What is going on?

I missed that one. Of course it is tax time and I spent some time on that.

[FARAFIELD]

7. HAHAHA

shut down the revote? what about the losers getting it right in the first place. He didnt have anything to do with that. I say good for Howard Dean for not backing down. It wouldnt matter to me who was trailing or leading (I supported Edwards). The truth is we all knew the vote didnt mean crap BEFORE The voting so why count the results, and I sure wouldnt want one candidate to pay for it YIKES. I still say the best thing is for Hillary and Obama be apportioned based on the votes cast, and let Hillary get her delegates in Michigan and Obama get the uncommitted (if hillary didnt like that then she can take a zero)

[devilindisguise]

10. I heard this

That when all the voting is done in all states, that the votes from Florida and Michigan will be divided up on the percentage of popular votes. My channel was probably on CNN.

[walldude]

8. Gee I guess all that talk of Obama being the Messiah is true

He's in control of the Democratic party! Gee I guess all that talk of lack of experience doesn't mean anything if Obama already controls the whole party.. :rofl:

[devilindisguise]

11. Messiah is right

That's how some people act. The guy can not beat McCain if he get the nomination. People really need to consider his lack of experience. I think he is not as uniting as he claims or his backers wouldn't be so angry all the time.

[walldude]

12. So do you use your psychic powers for other things?

I could use some money...



And Obama's backers are "so angry" because Hillary's backers make mountains out of molehills and make pathetic right wing smear attempts. Today's was the worst. They claimed to be insulted because they took his "punishment" comment literally and out of context. I'd like to believe they are doing it out of spite and not because they are really that stupid.


I'll take Obama any day. I'll vote for Hillary if I have too. And people who claim that they will vote for McCain of their candidate loses the primary just need to go the fuck away.

[babylonsister]

13. Baloney. He has more experience than Clinton, and he doesn't

stretch-h-h the truth about it either.

[Me.]

14. Good Idea, Right

To alienate those two states for the general election with this nonsense talk about Obama shutting down re-votes. Get them good and mad at him and that'll be a big help in the general. Oh right, the pipe dream is that he'll implode. Next week they'll be back to the idea of the electoral college deciding our candidate.

[devilindisguise]

34. He stretchs the truth I believe

that would be the polite way to compare state legislative experience, with US Legislative experience. I supppose next you will tell me he was first lady for 8 years. In addition to thinking he is Lincoln, MLK, JFK, and Jesus.

[stevenleser]

43. Stretching the truth like Bosnia/NAFTA/Northern Ireland?

Like I said further down in this thread, Hillbots shouldnt be talking about honesty.

[Cha]

28. hilary's a fucking liar and we've had 24 years of LIARS

in the white house..time for change. And get your head outta the sand and put some money in hilary's coffers..she needs money asap.

[earthlover]

9. So what is Wolfson up to now? Oh. I see....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. Obama's attorneys did their jobs just like in Chicago

[laugle]

44. You've got that

right! And without those states being counted, Obama's nomination would be seen as illegitimate and we can say hello to President McCain. Thanks Obama!

[anamandujano]

45. They don't call him green for nothing. REC

[TheDonkey]

16. Rendell and Wolfson would be about the last people on Earth I'd trust.

[TAWS]

17. I doubt Obama somehow influenced the whole Michigan Senate to not take up the issue

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. Either Obama or Clinton could have influenced the Michigan Senate

Some Democrats in the Michigan Senate are strongly in the camp of one or the other. If either candidate wanted to kill a revote there were plenty of ways their allies in the legislature could have made it clear that legislation would not pass. Those in favor of a revote would not bring up a bill for consideration that they knew would be voted down, that would only hurt their cause by making a revote "seem" unpopular.

[LisaM]

18. Here's an article about it.....

http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-lawyer-questions-michigan-re-vote-plan

[gateley]

22. Thanks for the link --

Although all the legalese made my eyes water and I just couldn't plod through it.

I'm guessing that each side will take the stance that benefits them most. :shrug:

It IS interesting that as far as I lasted, Obama's lawyer was addressing constitutional and legal questions (as well as logistical ones), but the Clinton campaign memo was calling out Obama with snarky remarks.

[LisaM]

24. Actually, what drew my eye

was that it reminded me of the SC's arguments against Gore (you know, that if they found a way to fix, for example, the butterfly ballot, it would disenfranchise other voters who had not had problems with their ballot.....)

[flpoljunkie]

19. The media? LOL! Rendell, Wolfson are harping on this, cause it's all they got! Only Obama is

negotiating for some kind of deal to seat the delegates here in Florida. The Hillary camp is still holding out for a re-do--to be funded by her fat cat contributors. That will not fly--if they are still willing to spend millions for a re-do which some have said would amount to about $1 million per delegate!

[City Lights]

21. Rendell also said Fox Noise is the most objective news channel.

Two lying peas in a pod.

[zulchzulu]

23. Must be the new Clinton message: "Pathological lying is easy"

[johnnydrama]

25. why would anybody

participate in a re-vote paid for by their opponent's fat cat contributor's.

I wouldn't do that in elementary school.

[phrigndumass]

26. Objectivity

"Judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices."

Someone who is objective would have blamed the state parties for moving the date of the primaries in a way that breaks the rules agreed to by the national party and both campaigns.

:hi:

[FatDave]

47. Hmmmm. Sure you're not asking for a bit much?

[PoliticalAmazon]

27. Same Rendell that said racist comment about Black voters and Obama? n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Obama would have good motivation to

Take note of this site which has a sophisticated spread of projections for the final popular vote tallies, with and without including caucuses, with and without FL and MI, with revotes in one or the other, etc. It's called "PREDICT THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY?" and it has estimates for the upcoming primaries also.

Using 15 differenct scenarios or what does or does not get included, the range goes from Obama winning the national popular vote count by up to 392,000 votes, to Clinton winning the national popular vote count by up to 341,000 votes. But Clinton either needs those revotes in FL and MI to win the overall popular vote, or for the old results to count.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/chooseyourown.html

[kevinmc]

30. Wolfson = Baghdad Bob n/t

[oviedodem]

32. You all must READ regarding this ReVote!! Here are the Obama facts:

1. He is not opposed to a revote OR a seating of the delegates that are fair to both candidates and the people in the states

2. He WANTS a re-vote in Florida IF Independents & those Dems who did not vote in the first primary are given a chance because the plans presented ONLY included the Dems that voted.

3. He will support a re-vote in Michigan because his name is not on the ballot. He will NOT support a simple seating of the delegates from Michigan.


In Hillary's perfect world she wants the delegates seated with no re-votes; that is patently not fair and they know it.

[JoFerret]

38. Are obama facts like obama truth?

.

[stevenleser]

42. You mean like Clinton Truth? Bosnia/NAFTA/Northern Ireland?

Hillbots shouldnt be talking about honesty.

[JoFerret]

57. Who is a Hillbot?

What is such a thing?
Is it related to an Obamabot? What is that?

[sueragingroz]

33. K & R

[Lord Helmet]

36. propaganda because both FL and MI legislatures voted it down

the Clinton people are big fat liars

[rodeodance]

55. his lawyers were working the scenes in MI and FL:

http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-lawyer-questions-michigan-re-vote-plan

Obama Lawyer Questions Michigan Re-Vote Plan
by Katharine Jose | March 19, 2008
| Tags:

* Politics
* Barack Obama
* Hillary Clinton
* Robert Bauer

As Hillary Clinton gets ready to make a surprise last-minute appearance this morning in Detroit to push for a Michigan re-vote that is reportedly in jeopardy, the Obama campaign released a memo that calls the validity of a new primary into question.

Written by Robert Bauer, general counsel to the campaign, the memo is a lengthy, dense appeal that lists numerous reasons why a new Michigan primary might be open to legal challenge: the short time that the state has to prepare, the risk of disenfranchisement because of party affiliation, and the problem of where the funding will come from, among others.

The Obama campaign has resisted re-votes in both Michigan and Florida—states where Obama lost, but no real campaign was conducted (he wasn’t even on the Michigan ballot). Although he has very little chance of winning in the case of a Florida re-vote, his support in Michigan is generally considered to be stronger. Yesterday, the Clinton campaign accused the Obama campaign of intentionally blocking a Michigan re-vote.

The memo in full:

TO:

Interested Parties

FROM: Robert F. Bauer

RE: Michigan Primary

DA: March 19, 2008

In the short time available, I have reviewed the proposed legislation to establish the June 3, 2008 primary, considering primarily those issues that bear on the central question of whether this election can be conducted successfully without undue risk of legal challenges, including those challenges arising out of errors or other breakdown induced by the schedule the State has proposed.

No one disputes that the election will have to be hurriedly prepared; and it is further accepted that it is, in material respects, unprecedented in conception and proposed structure. Michigan will be, for example, the first to state to have re-run an election in circumstances like these, to redress violations of party rules, and it will be the first to do so with the state supplying the legislative and administrative support but with private parties underwriting the costs with "soft money". Whether the state can achieve its goals here depends on the nature and seriousness of the legal and administrative questions presented by this initiative—questions that, raised after the election, could put at risk the running of the election, undermine acceptance of the results if the election is held, and in both cases effectively deny Michigan voters, a second consecutive time, meaningful participation in the nominating process.

For the reasons discussed briefly below, there are such questions and they are serious both in nature and in their potential, if not likely, impact on the June election proposal.

Voter Disqualification

[Thickasabrick]

37. Rendell has become a Faux News hack....he's a democratic O'Reilly

[gristy]

39. You post this crap, you sure as hell better tell us how YOU think

Obama would have ANY authority to "shut down" re-votes in those states. Tell us, genius. How could he do that?

[truedelphi]

40. Well, first of all, consider the swine-ness of the source. n/t

[wisteria]

41. Oh course they would spin this- they are supporting Clinton. Can't blame them but not believable. n/

[SoCalDem]

46. The story= Rendell's an ASS & Wolfson's an ASS²

That's the "story".. a true fairy tale about how Princess Hillary rewrites the rules to incorporate a way for her to "win"..:rofl:

They are the court jesters who kiss her ass and go on tv to spin the yarns necessary to keep the campaign alive long enough for them to eke out a few months more money :)

[rodeodance]

48. There was an AP article about this also---His lawyers did shut them out. So, can

not defend it.

Cause it is true

[K Gardner]

49. I've been hearing this bullcrap spewed from Hillary, Wolfson and Rendell for a couple

days now and, now, notice that even the ANCHORS are picking up the meme.

Its utter bullshit so I have no idea how no one is calling them on it. I started to post the same thing here today. I don't get it.

K&R

[rodeodance]

51. like I said- An AP article said his lawyers were sucessful in doing so

[K Gardner]

52. Oh fuck it, you're back with your tired, pathetic bullcrap again. Time to re-engage IGNORE. Buh bye.

Could have done everyone a favor and stayed gone. I'll be glad when Obama is the OFFICIAL nominee at DU, last of places on the internet to allow your garbage, and you ARE gone.

[rodeodance]

54. Gee---another BO fan who gets huffy when the truth is put out. tsk tsk

K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr-01-08 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Oh fuck it, you're back with your tired, pathetic bullcrap again. Time to re-engage IGNORE. Buh bye.

Could have done everyone a favor and stayed gone. I'll be glad when Obama is the OFFICIAL nominee at DU, last of places on the internet to allow your garbage, and you ARE gone.

[LulaMay]

50. It's true. He did not want re-votes in either state. His lawyers fought them, killed MI

[cooolandrew]

53. Rendell said in OHio that he intent was to change perception to get HRC to wiin...

This guy is a real gangster.

[rodeodance]

56. Then BO surrogates are gangsters for changing perceptions to BO to win. yup

Rendell said in OHio that he intent was to change perception to get HRC to wiin...
Posted by cooolandrew


This guy is a real gangster.

[madfloridian]

58. Here's the real story. Wasserman-Schultz, Hillary's co-chair...fought the revote.

And she is given credit by many for making it impossible to pass.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1960

[ORDem]

59. Now, where did I put that giant grain of salt? It was here a minute ago...

Nobody shut down any re-votes, except the respective legislatures in each state. Hillary had no real interest in re-votes, since both would have hurt her story about a path to the nomination the second any re-votes were put in place (since the original elections would be moot and she'd be way behind, etc.). I know for a fact that Obama was opposed to one proposed MI re-vote because it disallowed any Democrat who had voted in the original primary from voting again, but let any GOOPER who hadn't voted to vote. Hillary was fine with that kind of BS, because she knew it make the re-vote plan not fly. She wants the uncertainty of whether those delegates will count or not because it helps support her delusions.

:dem:

[Samantha]

60. I had to turn off Rendell yesterday when he started spewing this crap

It's a weak attempt to compare, should it happen, Obama's getting the Democratic nomination, with Bush* being installed by the Supreme Court. It was thought at the time should Bush* prevail because of the Supreme Court's intervention and not as a result of the literal vote, his presidency would be stained with illegitimacy. That last word has also been used in describing Obama's administration should he win the nomination and ultimately the General Election. Have you heard that word being "floated" the last couple of days in connection with a potential Obama win? It's totally asinine and disgusting.

As to why the Obama camp is not more proactive in stepping out and batting down these outrageous proclamations by the Clinton camp is beyond me. I hope he is not so naive as to think most Americans can see through this bull -- they are not.

Rendell is the Governor of Pennsylvania -- why has he anointed himself to step out and comment on Florida and Michigan's voting issues? It is not his concern. The bottom line is that any revote would have been closed primaries in both states and Republicans and Independents could not have voted for Obama. Advantage: Camp Clinton. It doesn't take a mental political giant to discern why Obama would not agree to this.

All that aside, Michigan and Florida brought these problems on themselves when they refused to honor the rules. It's painful and disgusting to try and count the ways the blame has been thrown on others -- the DNC, Howard Dean personally, Barack Obama -- when the core of the blame should be laid at the feet of the two states.

And of course, Michigan's SC did reject the concept so why anyone is trying to blame Barack for that as well is unbelievable. I guess these spokespersons assume they can say whatever they like on cable television and the American people are just dumb enough to believe whatever they hear. It's the same ploy the Republicans used in 2000 to explain why Bush* would occupy the Oval Office....