Take the blinders off folks, saying having a baby is punishment in any

[boston bean]

way shape or form, or intent, or in context or out of context is stupid.

So, stop fooling yourselves, this is a goldmine for the republicans and just because someone can see it as such, even though they may disagree with the context, makes not one shits bit of difference. Because someone wants to discuss it or can see it as troubling, does not make them a freeper.

He was an idiot for saying it.

[IndianaJones]

1. typical Obama. nt

[Kittycat]

2. You're wrong.

Sorry to see you're against a woman's right to choose, and would rather punish a woman, than give her that choice.

[boston bean]

4. that isn't what I said, and you know it you are being disingenous. nt

[Barack_America]

22. Nope. That's exactly how I read your OP as well.

The language you used is EXACTLY the language that RWers use to argue against abortion.

So congratulations on your argument against choice.

[boston bean]

97. you have a reading comprehension problem. I didn't think it was that serious before, but

you should get tested.

[Barack_America]

125. What? MassDemm using a personal insult to deflect an argument?

No never! I am SHOCKED!

:eyes:

[2rth2pwr]

3. Obama supporters are saying it was taken out of context AND that

kids are punishment. Sometimes all in the same post.


kinda makes your head spin.

[joshcryer]

6. Heh, tell me about it.

The spin is amazing!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. DIZZYING!!

[AX10]

131. When one drinks too much kool-aid, this is what happens.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. Yawn, really yawn - clutching at straws, Hillary said the same thing about teen preg

Hillary said the same thing

[boston bean]

7. take a nap if you're tired. nt

[joshcryer]

9. Got a link? I bet it wasn't phrased as stupidly.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. someone posted the link today on GD primaries

[Kittycat]

82. Yep - here's your link... And it goes right to HRCs website.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5329963

[NOLALady]

70. But that doesn't count.

She misspoke.

[PoliticalAmazon]

74. Desperation time in the Clinton Corral. n/t

[DearAbby]

8. Obama never said having a baby is a form of punishment

:shrug:

[blogslut]

11. Here's a number for your outrage

4011

[boston bean]

12. I'm not outraged at anything. It's gonna be a problem for him and you know it, face it. nt

[blogslut]

14. 4011

And that number will keep going up.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. I'm not going to worry about people who gobble up any sound byte they hear

Those people will end up voting for the candidate they were leaning towards anyway. They will only use the sound byte to confirm their opinion.

[DearAbby]

17. How?

Since Obama never said, having a baby is a form of Punishment...jesus keep reaching.

[boston bean]

20. umm use your imagination. if he is the nominee, that will be hell for him. nt

[DearAbby]

36. Are you using your imagination

to place something that was never said in this discussion? Obama never said it....period. He never said having babies is a form of punishment. Keeping children ignorant, by not teaching them can be, consequences of ignorance can be a form of punishment.

[boston bean]

92. have you been through a general election where you have paid attention? tell the truth now.

it doesn't matter, all you say is true, it doesn't freakin matter.

John Kerry said some stupid shit too, that he didn't mean the way they portrayed it.

For christs sake, i thought this was politics 101.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Meanwhile Women are being raped in the military by US soldiers

I don't see any of you posting your outraged.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3086764&mesg_id=3086764

[boston bean]

19. I am not outraged, I am trying to have a discussion. that passes for outrage now? nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. "I am not outraged"?

That women are being rape in the military?

[boston bean]

37. asking me where my outrage is implies i am outraged in my OP, which I am not. good try tho and good

off topic sub thread.

[JoFerret]

121. What about Darfur?

You just don't care do you?
Not to mention the destruction of the gorilla habitat in the Congo.You just don't care.

[2rth2pwr]

136. I can't believe you have no concern for the Polar Bears who

are running out of glaciers.

Heartless!

[Jersey Devil]

16. Pretty pathetic if this is what the Hillary campaign is left with

Just keep smacking shit up against the wall to see if it sticks, huh? Great strategy.

[leftstreet]

"Goldmine for the republicans" Try SniperFire Gate n/t

[DearAbby]

26. Hell yes

that is the gold mine for GOP...having Hillary in her own lying words, complete with conflicting video.

[goldcanyonaz]

65. Guess you forgot about that Pastor/mentor of Obama's.

That's gonna suck with all those 527 ads playing 24/7 paired with many of the Michellisms of the campaign.

Ouch.

[walldude]

18. Wow.. I can't wait to meet your "perfect kids"

any parent who says their kids don't "punish" them is either lying or doing it wrong. My kids punish me all the time, and I love them anyway.

[tekisui]

21. You don't think that a teenage unwanted pregnancy or teenage STD

feels like a punishment to a young girl?

Many are faced with those situations because the are given limited sex-education. They are told abstinence only and never hear the importance of having protected sex.

They are faced with options of going to high school pregnant, raising a child alone or with help, adoption, and abortion. None of those options are desirable. And they can be prevented, many times, with proper education.

And think of the girl forced to be seen as "loose" or a "slut" because she got pregnant in high school. What about the guy that impregnated her? Nothing. It can most definitely feel like a punishment. I have known many to face horrible decisions and public shame because they were not properly educated.

[boston bean]

24. WTF difference does it make what my liberal ass thinks, that is not the point. nt

[tekisui]

27. Then what is the point?

Pro-lifers won't vote Obama? They won't vote Hillary either.

[boston bean]

31. wedge issues in the GE. why do I have to explain this to someone who has been on DU as long as you.

[tekisui]

38. I honestly, sincerely do not see this getting much play.

You may be right, I don't think you are.

There will be wedges, to be sure, I just don't see it here.

[DearAbby]

59. The abortion wedge issue

may have worked in 04. I don't believe it can work in 08. There are more important issues. The economy and the war, to name a couple.

[tekisui]

60. Conservative friends and family who have always voted on abortion

have realized the past 4 years that there are many many other more important things to vote on.

[CTyankee]

80. I think you are right here. Unwanted pregnancies ending in abortions went UP recently.

Of course they did. This is a direct result of Bush's nearly 8 years of anti-choice policies and abstinence only policy.

This issue flies beneath the radar, but it is always there for women. Let's face it: both Obama and Clinton are pro-choice. Enough said. Let's get off the subject. This conversation is stupid...

[amandabeech]

73. Because it seems that to post on DU-Primaries regularly,

you have to check your gray matter when you sign in.

I understand what you're saying. Obama's word choice was awkward, and I'm sure that the pukes will take it out of context and make some ugly, ugly commercials with it.

Same with Rev. Wright.

The truth of what Obama or Rev. Wright (or Clinton, for that matter) isn't nearly as important as what the pukes can do with a 30-second sound bite.

[LaurenG]

23. I'll give you that.

It was a stupid thing to say. However you know that if Senator Clinton's supporters liked him this wouldn't be any more then a republican/Hannity type hit piece.

I tell you the whole world has gone mad... :shrug:

[GoldieAZ49]

25. But he *didn't know* it was stupid

:rofl:

[JayFredMuggs]

28. You really need to find an issue that can last a day or more

These out-of-context half-sentences don't make for a Hillary victory.

[PoliticalAmazon]

75. She'll be claiming sniper fire again, at this rate. n/t

[NC_Nurse]

30. Maybe he should have avoided using the word punishment, but the people

here who are taking that one part of what he said and making it into some kind of statement about babies and children in general are full of shit.

[JayFredMuggs]

32. AMEN!

Full of something!

[2rth2pwr]

34. Tell that to poster #18

[2rth2pwr]

64. or #57

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

33. So, does that mean Hillary is NOT Pro-Choice?

Damn, the things I learn on DU.

[2rth2pwr]

39. Yes, that's exactly what that means.

WTF?!??!

[Fox Mulder]

35. It would be a punishment for me.

I can't stand kids.

And he wasn't an idiot for saying it. People are making a big deal out of nothing.

[boston bean]

40. that is fine, but a baby that is born should probably not be defined as punishment. nt

[SaveAmerica]

41. I'm getting a tag team vibe...

[boston bean]

45. you better get a new vibrator detector then, cause the batteries are running low. nt

[Guava Jelly]

43. Gall

You got it sister..
And tons of it for accusing others of wearing blinders

[boston bean]

49. you and i have much more in common than either you or i thought, i guess. nt

[Guava Jelly]

55. I hope so

And I hope what we have in common is that we are both good Democrats who police ourselves from trashing fine Democratic candidates with right wing spin.. :D

[boston bean]

85. how is this trashing? I ask this honestly. it's about a stupid comment he made.

and the ramifications this could have on him in the election if he is the nominee.

how is that trashing him. people had better get their heads out of their behinds if they plan on winning in november.

[Guava Jelly]

87. It is trashing him!

Why else would you have created this thread??
Did you start a thread like this regarding snipergate? :shrug:
You are a proud Hillary supporter and I respect that.I just believe you are attacking the wrong man..
Attack this guy instead

[boston bean]

90. you really think this is an attack? really? really? you are reading the wrong way then. nt

[Guava Jelly]

99. "He was an idiot for saying it"

You read what you wanted from it to further your cause..So yes...It was an attack.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nPk_IZ44DMc
You want him to fail..Just so you can gloat that you were right.
Because in your biased mind you believe it will discredit Obama enough that your choice will be the most viable option by default..

[boston bean]

109. I have read it, baby and punishment in the same sentence is a fuck up. You know it

or you wouldn't be wasting your time with this.

[Guava Jelly]

115. I am not wasting my time on this

I am proving that you are grasping for something that isn't there.
stay positive..it works better

[Warren Stupidity]

44. Oh so if you were gang raped by the police and then forced to carry the fetus to term

saying that having the baby was a punishment would be stupid because it might offend people?

There is no context in which this phrase makes sense? That example is too over the top?

How about: "you were deliberately denied accurate information about reproductive health care and accidentally got pregnant and as a result of your mistake you should not be further punished by having to carry the fetus to term".

[boston bean]

46. I said nothing of the sort. jesus christ, i never ever said anything about that.

[Warren Stupidity]

68. Actually you did

"saying having a baby is punishment in any way shape or form, or intent, or in context or out of context is stupid."

[boston bean]

84. you are being foolish. nt

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boston bean]

52. Accusations, that have no base in reality. you are sad. I never said anything about anti choice

in my op. I am 100% pro choice and always have been. That is not what this thread is about so take your accusations someplace else. Good try on a sub thread though.

[TheDonkey]

66. your lame attempt to smear Obama is not working.

try harder.

[DarienComp]

48. Why don't you just accuse Barack of hating his children and be done with it already?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. Oh for fuck's sake.

He was saying that a teenager having a baby or an STD was "punishment" for ignorance. You can mince words all you want, but rarely have I ever known the sixteen year old who was thrilled to be pregnant.

[jgraz]

51. Why do I feel MassDemm's parents have a different take on this?

Just a guess...

[azmouse]

53. ...

:thumbsup:

[boston bean]

54. Tell mom and dad I said hi Jay!! I'll be a little late for supper. You were always the loved one!

[slor]

56. Wow...he punished his own self TWICE!

Do you honestly believe this story will be as big a issue as the "sniper" lie? Get real. mcLame will dance all over her during the GE, about the difference between real gunfire and imaginary gunfire. Anybody that tries to turn this into the idea that Obama dislikes children, will simply make obvious, their own stupidity.

[Yotun]

57. No spin, no twisting, no bullshit, Obama is 100% spot on, and you should be ashamed!!!

Why do women have abortions?

Answer: because they don't want the child!

Why would the not want the child if it was a blessing to them?

Answer: because its not. Its a punishment


This is nothing more than a poorly made appeal to emotion by Hillary supporters. Look at your children and how you love them, and when you get all emotional, ask how could Obama say they are a punishment?

Well, let me wake you up to the real fucking world, and tell you a little secret. Many times they fucking are. If a child wasn't a punishment for some, why would a girl seek abortion? Why would she want not to have it?

Lets cut the emotional and polically correct crap. For any woman, of whatever age, a pregnancy of a child that she doesn't want and seeks abortion for is a punishment. This type of rhetoric, that all children are blessings, that they are never a punishment, that at the least you can give it for adoption, is the exact same arguments that religious pro-life supporters make, and I'd never in my life think to find them in a so called 'progressive' forum. SHAME on anybody who does not agree with Obama 100%. Go tell a girl who wants to have an abortion but she's not let to do so by her parents, or soon enough with McCain, by the state, that the child and her pregnancy which she never asked for is a blessing, and that she's not being punished.

How fucking low some people get?

[Iris]

58. Bullshit. Pro-life Republicans seem to think it's GOOD for people to be punished for having sex

with a child or a disease.

I think what he said is brilliant b/c he took their ideas and showed how outrageous they are. It makes me like him more and, even though I didn't vote for him in the primaries, it's things like this that will make me GLAD to vote for him in the general election.

[JTFrog]

61. "The sons of teen mothers are more likely to end up in prison;"

(http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4543)

Talk about hypocrisy and blinders.

Both candidates are Pro-choice. (spare me the "Hillary has electrolytes" response please)

Once again, be careful what you ask for.

I'm sure Mr. McCain thanks you for this post.

[whatchamacallit]

62. It's a Fool's Goldmine for Hill supporters

:eyes:

[bowens43]

63. making an issue where there is none is stupid.

actually believing that it's an issue is even more stupid.

[jgraz]

67. Jesus, how does shit like this make it to the greatest page?

It's sad to think there are six people on this board who think this post is anything but pure trash.

[Cant trust em]

71. You and I both know the answer to that question.

Obama haters just want to make him look bad. Plain and simple.

[jgraz]

72. It's not Obama that they make look bad

This is transparent dogshit spin. Why would someone come to a public board just to prove to everyone that they're a dishonest asshat? I don't get it.

[Guava Jelly]

76. I don't get it either

Maybe it is desperation

[KAZ]

77. They don't care. They're trying to fuck up DU. Seems rather obvious.

[saltpoint]

112. I agree. Strongly.

[Cant trust em]

69. As soon as politicians have to use the "it was taken out of context" argument

they're in trouble. I understand what Obama is getting to, but this has me troubled.

[MediaBabe]

78. Come November, if Obama is our nominee

People are going to find out that many American voters do not want a baby killed when a teenager makes a mistake. They believe that adoption is better than what they see as murder and Obama is not going to change their minds.

Many people who originally supported George Bush did so on one issue only - his pro life stance. These people are still out there, voting. Is it so wrong to adress this now? What do Obama Democrats gain by ignoring it and getting slapped in the face come General Election time?

[LaurenG]

81. They don't like Hillary either in fact I'd venture to say that the population

you are discussing wouldn't vote for either of them. That group isn't going to help us out at all.

I think at this point we just need to get this over with get a nominee and go after McCain.

[Arugula Latte]

132. "Many people" --- like YOU, maybe?

:eyes:

I have two kids, but they were planned. I would NOT wish an unplanned pregnancy on my daughter (nor my son's future partner), and that is one big reason I fight for abortion rights.

[Tribetime]

79. Obama is far and away the best of the 3 imo but I agree with you

on this point. I'm trying to see it both ways but I agree with you.

[ProSense]

83. Idiotic! If a woman is raped should she be forced to keep the baby?

If a teenager is abused by her father, should she be forced to keep the baby.

Are those situations rewards?

[RamboLiberal]

86. Why don't you fools watch the video first?

Before joining the fundies in comdemning Obama. He's arguing for kids to be taught about contraception and not just abstinence. Maybe a poor choice using punishment, but jeez you idiots try giving several speeches a day and have some idiots cherry-pick!

Here's the speech clip: mms://159.26.125.75/News/Incoming/Obama%20_Punish%20Them%20With%20A%20Baby_.wmv

You'll have to paste it or link to it from this Christian link: http://christiannewswire.com/news/749176119.html

[Renew Deal]

88. .

[JayFredMuggs]

89. You really have a reading comprehension problem

And should seek help figuring out how to get the meaning of a paragraph.

Or else you just hate Obama so much that any straw you can grab a hold of is ok, no matter how flimsy!

[ileus]

91. I have two kids: babies are punishment...it gets better @2 years.

[TheDonkey]

93. Don't feed the troll

this issue is completely ridiculous and we have about 5 posts dredging up the same "faux outrage" This is a Shillbot organized campaign.

[anonymous171]

94. Completely fabricated a story about dodging sniper fire makes someone a liar.

But that's OK, since bald-faced lying runs in the Clinton legacy.

:hide: btw I like Bill, he's awesome.

[TexasLady]

95. hey Mass, after reading all of this thread..whew!

I know you are female, but you can both start and keep an argument going in exactly the same way my ex-husband would.
If this EVER gets resolved for us regarding a candidate you would handily whoop any freeps ass, just by wearin' em down. :rofl:

[saltpoint]

96. One part Demosthenes, one part circuit fundie preacher, one part

shrieking hen.

One more pointlessly provocative post by this poster.

"Bitches get stuff done," quoting your sig line -- but it's only impressive when they've done some thinking. You've missed that part of the formula in your rush to call Senator Obama an "idiot."

[boston bean]

100. He was an idiot for saying it and you know it. nt

[saltpoint]

102. If your concern was the topic of teenage pregnancy, you could have

started that thread.

Instead, you sling shit around as always.

[boston bean]

104. no my concern is the election at this point and discussing those matters and what the candidates are

saying.

He said something stupid, whether he meant it that way or not makes no difference. I know he is pro choice. to try and make this thread about something else is ridiculous.

[saltpoint]

105. That's not your concern at all. It hasn't been from the word 'go.'

[boston bean]

108. Oh yes it has. It absolutely has. i think Hillary is more electable. I do believe she has made

some fuck ups too.

But obama fucks up too.

[saltpoint]

111. Sorry, no sale. You're on here every half-breath smearing Obama.

You are frequently challenged with the utter horseshit the Clinton campaign has been slinging with the race-baiting and everything else, and you have never once responded persuasively to those criticisms, all of them demonstrably documented.

Not once.

[boston bean]

113. I am to assume then that you have never been critical of Hillary.

Actually that's just about all you post.

[saltpoint]

116. When Geraldine Ferraro race-baits on Fox News, you better believe I

object.

And so should you, and you have not.

Not once.

[boston bean]

117. but but that is taken out of context, you know she didn't mean it that way.

do you hear how weak of an argument that is.

Yes what you say has merit, it was a screw up.

So isn't this for Obama.

[saltpoint]

120. Slip out the back door all you want. You know what the Clinton camp

is doing, you can see what it has done.

Hubby and Shaheen and Ferraro -- all of them race-baiting to advance their candidate.

Check the pre-SC polling, Mass. Then look at the turn out and totals for the final count.

[boston bean]

123. this just goes to show what a partisan you are. I just agreed with you

I could have made the same argument you are making for Geraldine Ferraro.

I did not, I don't think you will find a post by me on the whole scenario.

[saltpoint]

127. I'm sorry, you missed the point, as usual. If you are concerned about

the subject of teenage pregnancy, you could have begun that thread at any moment.

Instead you turn it -- or try to -- against the candidate you oppose.

It turns you into a shrieking hen for a woman BECAUSE she's a woman. That's not enough.

That's why her campaign is on the rocks, that's why she doesn't have any money, that's why her surrogates are race-baiting their way through the primary calendar.

She's done for. You might want to plan a transition phase.

[Condem]

98. Hey, Mass

Get those last few posts in before your banished. I'll be sorry to see you go.

[boston bean]

101. is that some sort of threat? nt

[Condem]

103. Nah, Mass

I don't agree with your posts, however, I'm a little bit open-minded on this whole deal, so I respect where you're coming from.

[boston bean]

106. so I might not like or care for your posts, I don't try to get people banned.

why should i be banned? because some obama supporter disagrees with what I post.

Hell if that was the threshold, all O supporters would be gone for dissing me and Hillary.

[Condem]

110. Jesus, Mass

I could'a sworn that was you the other night posting about your future at DU. No?

[boston bean]

114. not my future, little fucks cyber stalking are you that one, which sockpuppet are you? nt

[Condem]

118. Sockpuppet?

Translate.

[Condem]

129. Hey, Massdemm

One more fucking question. If you're like the rest of the Clinton ilk I've posed this to, I won't get an honest answer from you either. Now, just how in the fuck is Hillary going to pull this off. I'm betting you don't have the balls {oops, my bad} to answer this.

[Condem]

130. Nope

I didn't think you would.

[dogday]

107. Let us hope that the Republicans won't be able to use that

against Obama... I am more worried about what we don't know then what we do know...

[Neshanic]

119. "He was an idiot for saying it." Pure simple explaination.

Just beware the wrath of the Obamists.

[Erin Elizabeth]

122. You know, looking at this forum, you'd think

that this was some HUGE STORY all over the news or something.

I just checked and was hard pressed to find much more than a passing mention in news stories. Blogs, sure, some blogs are talking about it.

But it seems to be a way bigger deal here than anywhere else.

[boston bean]

124. wait a couple of days. nt

[Erin Elizabeth]

126. OK.

With news stories, typically they hit hot and hard right at first, or they don't really hit at all. But alright, I'll recheck all the news sources in about two or three days and see if there's much mention of it. Somehow I doubt it, though.

[saltpoint]

128. The OP enjoys inflation of perspective. It's one of her hallmarks.

[EmilyAnne]

133. You know you don't care. Fake outrage is so silly. What a waste of time and energy.

[AZBlue]

134. You've obviously never known any school-age girl who got pregnant.

[elixir]

135. You got it MassDemm.