Obama To Blame If The Dem Contest Goes To The Convention

[Tellurian]

Obama To Blame If The Dem Contest Goes To The Convention

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008

Posted on Sun Mar 30, 2008

Obama supporter Josh Marshall:

"Sen. Clinton gave a pretty astonishing interview to the Washington Post in which she appears to say she will stay in the race till the convention in August, where she will take her fight to the credentials committee to have the delegates from the non-sanctioned Michigan and Florida primaries seated."

(Emphasis supplied.) What did Clinton actually say?

"I have no intention of stopping until we finish what we started and until we see what happens in the next 10 contests and until we resolve Florida and Michigan. And if we don't resolve it, we'll resolve it at the convention -- that's what credentials committees are for."

(Emphasis mine.) Josh's reaction to this?

"Now, that can have no other meaning than resolved on terms the Clinton campaign finds acceptable. It can't mean anything else since, of course, at least officially, for the Democratic National Committee, it is resolved. The penalty was the resolution."

(Emphasis supplied.) Excuse me? Not even Barack Obama says MI and FL is resolved. And Howard Dean certainly does not say this. I do not know where Marshall came up with that.

What Dean, Obama and the DNC are saying is that Michigan and Florida WILL be resolved. Obama says it will be resolved AFTER he gains the nomination. He has fought against revotes. Absent that, he has argued for 50/50 splits of the delegations of Florida and Michigan.

Clinton wants revotes. Obama does not. The main reason the situation will not be resolved is because Obama did not want it resolved BEFORE he won the nomination. Hillary is saying, not so fast. Win the nomination with FL and MI counting. Josh Marshall will not deal with that reality. Clinton has put it out there for all honest observers to see.

Other observers will invent their own reality. Hillary Clinton wants the will of the voters of Florida and Michigan to be counted in the contest for the Democratic nomination. Barack Obama does not. Josh Marshall writes:

That leaves two real possibilities: seat the non-sanctioned January primary delegates or hold the primaries again, a revote. I don't know many people who've ever thought possibility one was going to happen. And the consensus seems to be that the time window on possibility two has closed (though it's not completely clear to me why it couldn't be reopened if everyone agreed they wanted to do it.) So that really does sound like she's saying she wants to take this to the credentials committee at the convention at the end of August, regardless of the outcome of the next ten primaries and caucuses.

Here is a thought Josh, how about having the revotes that BARACK OBAMA has blocked? Josh of course can not just ignore the elephant in the room - Obama's blocking of the revotes in FL and MI, he has to smear Clinton:

By saying she'll continue through the remaining ten contests, regardless of the outcome, and implicitly, I take it, regardless of any superdelegate declarations over the next two months, Sen. Clinton is saying it's no longer about pledged delegates, or superdelegates or popular votes. It's about Florida and Michigan. Period.

(Emphasis supplied.) "Implicitly" for Josh means him making it up I guess. There is NOTHING in what Clinton said that made that implicit. Indeed, Marshall' statement makes NO sense. If Obama has secured the nomination IRRESPECTIVE of Florida and Michigan, he will agree to seat the delegations. Unless, Josh Marshall is implicitly saying that Barack Obama would STILL refuse to seat Florida and Michigan even if he had secured the nomination. In which case, Marshall is labelling Obama an idiot.

Marshall is suffering from a severe case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome now. His post is nonsensical. And it ignores what Clinton is REALLY saying.


http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/30/125326/775

[Tellurian]

1. If Obama supporters are so sure he is the nominee, why not include FL & MI?

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Good point. Why didn't the OP mention that?

[anonymous171]

4. FL we can talk about. MI is a totally different matter.

[Tellurian]

8. No one forced Obama to remove his name..he removed it voluntarily

It's his own dumb fault... at Michigan voter's expense!

[Alexander]

10. The DNC asked him to. He should apologize for following the rules?

[Tellurian]

21. Do you have a link for that...

I don't recall if they actually did..

[Alexander]

34. Yep, they followed DNC rules, signed a pledge not to campaign and removed their names.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/09/michigan.primary/index.html

All of them except Hillary Clinton, who reneged on her pledge and refused to take her name off the ballot.

"Under Democratic National Committee rules, only Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are allowed to hold primaries before February 5.

But Michigan Democrats moved their state's primary date to January in an effort to increase the state's influence in the nominee selection process, arguing Iowa and New Hampshire unfairly dominate the process.

The five candidates, as well as Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Chris Dodd of Connecticut, had already agreed not to campaign in Michigan and Florida, both of which bucked party rules by scheduling their nominating contests before February 5."

Can you defend Hillary's previous pledge not to campaign there? Something tells me the answer is "no".

[bilgewaterbill]

37. Crickets.

[Tellurian]

43. Hillary NEVER signed a Pledge with the DNC..

she said she wasn't subject to their rules.. So, she never broke a pledge that didn't exist!

[roguevalley]

54. read the post. just because you say she didn't doesn't change the

facts. right. the leading candidate is to blame.

So sad.

[Tellurian]

57. Hillary asked for a revote... which is fair, don't you think?

Obama refused.

[AZ Criminal JD]

70. Your link does not support your claim. Try again.

There is nothing in the article about the DNC demanding th candidates withdraw from the ballot. Kuchinich actively campaigned there btw.

[boston bean]

78. That is not true! He was pandering to Iowa and made a personal

choice to remove his name. You need to do some research.

[bhikkhu]

14. The candidates pledged to neither campaign or participate in those elections

Obama followed the rules, Hillary bent them a bit.

[Tellurian]

44. Obama broke the Rules...He had cable Campaign Ads running in FL..

are you going to deny that too?

[Window]

47. You are one pitiful advocate for pitiful Hillary.

[Tellurian]

52. You might try opening that "window" ... good for ya to get some fresh air..

who knows, might stir some cognitive thought.

[bhikkhu]

55. They were apparently national ads

At least from what I have read. I don't think the pledge to not campaign in Florida and Michigan disallows a national campaign.

[TTUBatfan2008]

81. Hillary...

held a fundraiser in Florida. You gonna ignore that?

[wileedog]

15. That's the worst argument on this board

and this is a board full of them.

Anyone who sincerely believes that an election that even Hillary said "wouldn't count" and didn't even have all of the candidates names on it and has even been ruled "unconstitutional" is playing the worst form of intellectual dishonesty.

"He took his name off" just makes you sound like 4th graders.

[Tellurian]

How so? I remember the day Obama took his name off..

Biden was removing his and Obama decided to remove his..

He was afraid to piss off Iowa. Does that clear your memory?

Oh, and the over use of the 4th grader meme...is sooooo last week!

[Alexander]

35. Hillary agreed not to campaign there, and went back on her word. Defend that.

I suspect your defense will be little more than "The rules matter, except when they hurt Hillary Clinton."

[Zhade]

39. She supports a proven liar - her rationalizations are meaningless.

I can't wait until assholes like her have to shut the fuck up about the nominee (Obama, of course) or leave DU.

It'll be sweet.

[Tellurian]

42. Hold your breath honey...you're gonna have a long wait!

[Tellurian]

40. Hillary never campaigned in FL.. Obama ran commercials he broke the rules..

and gave a sidewalk interview..

[anonymous171]

16. If you really cared about election integrity (which you don't)

then you would care that a candidate was not even on the ballot.

[Tellurian]

58. No one forced him to remove his name..

As I said, Obama removed his name for his own political gain.... he didn't want to piss off Iowa..

[tekisui]

33. The Michigan Primary was deemed Unconstituional.

Those votes WILL NOT count.

FL, they are working out.

[Tellurian]

59. I guess Donna Brazile is responsible for the hold up here..

Her Sept 7th statement says, the committee picked Nevada and SC for their diversity allowing them to change their primary dates.. MI certainly has a financial diversity that should be considered..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/31/AR2007083101427.html

[roguevalley]

51. so you only follow the rules when its in your favor? she should have

obeyed as well. she didn't and at the time I figured it would bite her in the ass. good. it did.

[totodeinhere]

9. Because if it were the other way around it would be Hillary who would be...

saying don't seat them. It's her hypocrisy more than anything else that bugs me.

[Hawkeye-X]

24. They will, but not now.

When the creditinal committee meets in June (which Obama has control, btw) - they will give back the delegates to Michigan and Florida for them to seat. It's not now, but later in June, after your pathetic and laughable candidate drops out after losing everything else.

[DerekJ]

72. What do you not understand in the word “unconstitutional”?

Is the constitution dead to you now. Or is the court system sexist?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

85. because they no the truth will sink him

[Warren Stupidity]

2. I agree. Obama declaring that it is fine if Clinton carries on was wrong.

She should do the Wright thing and drop out. On another note, is that one or two for you today?

[Tellurian]

5. Obama supporters NEVER on Topic..

Is this your first or hundredth off topic post for the day?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. The topic is blaming Obama for some shit.

I did just that: I blamed him for encouraging Clinton to stay in. That was wrong. I am agreeing with you.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. YOU were the one who brought up MI and FL.

That is the topic at hand, or did you forget your own words?

:rofl:

[Johnny__Motown]

6. LET IT SINK.. HILLARY LOST, THIS IS ALL HER FAULT...WE ALL KNOW IT

[Tellurian]

11. Keep the fantasy going as long as possible..

[Alexander]

13. She's behind in money, delegates, primaries, caucuses, polls, and states won...

How many more indicators do you need to tell you she's in the process of losing the nomination?

[Hawkeye-X]

25. a bonk in the head with a very heavy mallet, perhaps?

[Tellurian]

29. nah, we always root for the underdog..

we got sick of the title..."the inevitable winner"..

We're just playing with Barack... he's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO...serious!

[Alexander]

36. The underdog, who was ahead in every poll in every state last year?

Give it a rest. She ran a terrible campaign and she's losing now because of it.

[Tellurian]

48. Well..

Hillary's campaign started off ok.. kinda fell apart in the middle.. but I gotta hand it to her. She has plenty of support from voters out there. They know she's the right candidate for the job and I'm thankful she has the confidence and the courage to keep on going in spite of all the naysayers telling her she can't win...and she's just about even with Obama.. That is the irony.. She is not hopelessly behind.. she's just about dead even..and they say she can't win..

[wileedog]

17. Oooh, irony... n/t

[Tellurian]

60. oooh..troll!

[Forkboy]

62. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[dionysus]

84. rofl

[helderheid]

27. yes, you do that.

:rofl:

[GarbagemanLB]

7. Hillbots: democracy and the 'voice of the people' matters...unless you mean pledged delegates.

[AZBlue]

18. Obama's against revotes? Prove it with links. Or stop lying.

[cali]

20. You have an incurable case of Obama Derangement Syndrome

and it's effects are a brain stewed in hate. Pathetic.

[Vinca]

22. If they hold elections, Obama will be there.

He has never said he was against a revote. He's said he would abide by the DNC rules. If you have a link where he said he's against a revote, please share.

[apocalypsehow]

23. Hillary should do the right thing: drop out and tell her supporters to start acting like decent

human beings again. But she won't, so they'll go on acting vile. It's a sad situation.

:thumbsdown:

[SoCalDem]

26. "...Hillary Clinton wants the will of the voters of Florida and Michigan to be counted ..."

How unfortunate that she did not warn Granholm & Nelson to do everything in their power to NOT "jump the line"...

BEFORE THEY DID IT...

[Tellurian]

30. Well, here's the story:

A quick review of why Michigan moved up its primary date:

In 2000, Representative Dingell and Senator Carl Levin went to the DNC to discuss moving up the date for the Michigan Primary. Both were promised by the DNC, the issue would be addressed. In 2003, Carl Levin threatened to move up the date of the Michigan Primary to coincide with the New Hampshire Primary. Carl was talked out of it by the Democratic National Committee and he relented. Both Dingell and Levin were promised a commission would be established to review adding states to the earlier part of the campaign. Out of the commission study and in 2007, came a Nevada Caucus and a South Carolina Primary. While not happy, Michigan agreed to keep their February 9th date as long as New Hampshire and Iowa did not move their dates up. When New Hampshire moved their primary date up, the Michigan legislature moved its date to January 15th.

As Rep. John Dingell stated:

"We tried to stay within the rules"

"We tried. But Iowa and New Hampshire have a hold on the whole thing. What you have with Florida and Michigan are two states who've said, Enough is enough!"


http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/1025388.aspx

[SoCalDem]

38. They broke the rules..and are paying the consequences

We get it.we really do..

Hllary was the annointed winner well before the contest even started..

FL and MI would go for her (name recognition) and they would go EARLY.. she was expected to be 2nd in Iowa,. but breeze through NH, and then Super Tuesday would end it all.. she would be IT.... and since Edwards was supposed to win Iowa, with her 2nd, she'd wrap it up before anyone even knew who Obama was..

They gambled.. they lost..

[Tellurian]

46. No matter how you want to format your argument... It's wrong!

Hillary NEVER broke any rules because she didn't sign the DNC Pledge..so there!

[SoCalDem]

50. bully for her.. she took a "king's x"

:hi:

[Tellurian]

53. ...

backatcha :hi:

[mmonk]

28. Still trying to make the irrational sound rational?

[intaglio]

31. How do you live with your derangement, Tellus dweller?

Did or did not Carville, a member of Hillary's campaign arrange, the rule change that has applied to MI and FL?

Did or did not Hillary state outright that the MI and FL contests "would not count"?

Has Ms Rodham Clinton only pushed for the seating of MI and FL since she began to loose?

Did the Clinton supporting State democratic conventions in MI and FL break the rules?

What penalty is prescribed by Carville's rules for State DP's that break the rules?

What have the Clinton supporting MI and FL conventions done if not refuse revotes?

Look we are all aware that you have this fantastic, morbid desire for Hillary Clinton as your president, well why don't you go into your happy place and stay there for 9 years? In the meantime please stop posting garbage.

[Tellurian]

61. Actually, NO...blockhead.. I happen to have the link in my browser.. It was Donna Brazille

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/31/AR2007083101427.html

[charlie]

73. Your ignorant bravado is cute

Brazile 'splains why it happened in an article, so she's the one whut dunnit? While on the Batphone to Obama?

The Rules and Bylaws Committee has 30 members. The chair is a former Clinton cabinet member. 12 other members are superdelegate supporters of Hillary. 4 support Obama.

The votes to strip the states of delegates were unanimous, save one. The lone dissenter is an Obama superdelegate.

Harold Ickes -- I hope that name is familiar to you -- voted FOR the penalties.

So, on a committee where Hillary had a 13-4 staff advantage, sneaky Brazile bent the vote to her wiles, caused Ickes to hamstring his client, but missed one from the Obama camp who cast the traitorous vote?

[Tellurian]

79. It would help your statement if you could provide a link

showing how the voting went.. there must be a record of it somewhere...right?

Donna Brazile has backpedaled a bit on her original statement of resigning as the chairman of the cbc if Obama did not get the dem nomination.

[JayFredMuggs]

32. We should know by now

Everything that goes wrong for Hillary Clinton supporters is Obama's fault!

Yeah, right!

[Tellurian]

63. And if it's Obama's fault, Hillary did it too..

Isn't that the way you play the game?

[JayFredMuggs]

65. Hillary is responsible for her own lies

Obama never made her into a liar, she did that all on her own.

[Tellurian]

68. nother troller...

[Nickster]

41. Yet another former Clinton supporter (Josh) is thrown under the bus

by the Clinton machine.

How exactly did Senator Clinton seek to work out the issues prior to the primary season? You know, to make sure that the voters in FL and MI were represented properly? The rules were set, the penalties were given out, and it didn't matter to Team Clinton until they needed those votes, now Obama is the bad guy because he won't compromise in Senator Clinton's favor? Please. The state party in Michigan and Florida are to blame for this fiasco, they are the ones that made this a 48 state primary. Should we have another Bush V. Gore ruling to settle this?

[Tellurian]

64. Yup, Obama and Donna Brazile had the whole thing worked out in advance..

Of course, we won't mention Obama's name in the report..

But here it s in all it's splendor.. The picks and the reason for the picks...by Madam Brazile:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/31/AR2007083101427.html

[Nickster]

82. You're not helping your case at all. That article explains how Florida was given a chance to be Feb

5th, but chose to not even apply. Then the DNC punished the state appropriately and according to its rules. Why have a party if no one will recognize the authority of the national party? The whole Democratic primary system needs to be reformed, but not in the middle of a presidential primary.

I'm shocked that you were able to find something from Donna Brazile that I actually agree with.

[Usrename]

45. Obama and Dean are not responsible for MI or FL being tossed out.

Sen Hillary Clinton signed the four-state pledge herself, so she is as much to blame as anyone else for the fate of FL and MI:

WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by rules and regulations of the DNC.

http://mengbomin.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/the-four-state-pledge/

At some point in the future, you should try and focus on facing up to reality; try and get yourself away from the doublethink.

[Tellurian]

66. Do you see her signature anywhere? I don't..

If the DNC had Hillary's signature, I'm sure there would be no problem for them to pdf a copy.

Really,you can BS some of the people some of the time...not all of the time...you get caught too often with your pants down!

[Usrename]

71. Yeah, your right. Why should anyone believe Hillary about anything?

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3134

:banghead:

[zulchzulu]

49. You are suffering from a severe case of Clinton Excusenik Syndrome

(http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3134)

Hillary Clinton had on her own web site saying she would adhere to the Democratic Party's rules and knew that the Michigan and Florida primaries were merely beauty contests due to both state Democratic leaders not adhering to THE RULES. She is on record stating that she knew those votes would not count.

Now, of course, she thinks that people are too stupid to see that she wants to change the rules because she knows that without cheating, she is not the nominee.

Obama and the other candidates (except Kucinich and Gravel) decided to follow THE RULES. Is that too hard to comprehend?

[Tellurian]

67. She never signed it... not after the big stink put up be Donna Brazile..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/31/AR2007083101427.html

[AX10]

56. Josh Marshall is a certified mediawhore!

[oasis]

69. If it takes a fierce struggle within the Democratic Party to save America,

then I say, "bring it on".

[Tellurian]

77. I agree, and after watching what John Adams went through getting

the states to ratify the Declaration of Independence within the 13 colonies ...this is a cakewalk!

And yes, bring it!

[ima_sinnic]

74. awww, poor widdle Hillary, so desperate she has to fight for votes that don't even count

what a pathetic, despicable LOSER that woman is, and a liar to boot. but her train wreck is a hoot to watch. Fascinating and unbelievable that someone could have so LITTLE self-respect. It makes me almost feel sorry for her--but not really, because she is an unprincipled warmonger and opportunist and LIAR. More and more every day, because of nasty, delusional supporters like you, I relish every moment of her wreckage. Keep it up! I'm sure you have convinced countless thousands to vote for that ineffectual trojan horse DINO.

Oh, by the way, better dig deep--she's broke, you know. Because people are sick of the same old same old shit from the bushes and clintons. Hey, why don't you start a Former Democrats for Hillary Party? You could join your reptilian brother LIEberman in the purgatory of shunned puppets.

[JMDEM]

75. You remind me of my two little kids

They are continuously fighting because they start games, then when one of them starts losing, he or she insists on changing the rules to his or her advantage.

[JMDEM]

76. How is it that...

Hillary screams "unfair" in terms of Florida and Michigan, then insists on trying to persuade the super delegates to vote for her regardless of the will of the people?

Disingenuous.

[HooptieWagon]

80. Wow, even Tonya Harding didn't have such delusional supporters.

But plz keep it up, every post probably brings in a couple more votes for Obama. A train wreck is so much more entertaining when it's self-induced...

[dionysus]

83. somewhere tonight you are making a crack dealer rich...

[ProSense]

86. Watching Hillary's implosion is special!

For months many people, including me, have been saying something was not right with Hillary's campaign. Despite the excuses and denial, it's great to see her, in her own words and by her own actions, proving she's desperate, divisive and desperate.