Vermont's Lake Champlain more toxic now than when Dean took office in 1991

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-enviro2jan02,1,5691436.story?coll=la-headlines-politics

<>Environmentalists are especially critical of Dean's handling of water pollution problems. Dean did not lobby hard enough, they allege, when the Legislature repeatedly refused to beef up the budget of the Agency of Natural Resources, the state's pollution watchdog group that is responsible for enforcing the federal Clean Water Act.

Environmentalists charge that, in large part because of a lack of agency oversight, 26 watersheds are now highly polluted, including the state's prized Lake Champlain, which is more toxic today than when Dean took office in 1991.

The lake is so polluted that in some parts, phosphorous levels exceed allowable levels by more than 100%. When phosphorous-fed algae turned a part of the lake that extends into Canada into so much fetid pea soup last summer, Quebec's environment minister, Thomas Mulcair, called it an "ecological catastrophe" and announced a cleanup plan.

Vermont's current governor, Republican Jim Douglas, followed with his own plan, a $139-million effort that aims to reduce the lake's pollution levels to meet federal standards.
_________________

It is noteworthy that not once did the Vermont chapter of the Sierra Club support Dean in any of his gubernatorial races. Perhaps the above is one reason.

[Capn Sunshine]

1. That's right , it's the repository of acid rain

and other downwind and downstream pollutants, primaily cause bu the power industry's continued running of gross polluting generation stations that were supposed to be shut down before * took office and gutted the regulations.

But nice smear.

[Hep]

2. Every day

another one. And every day I relish in the fact that MY guy is the focus of attention.

[flpoljunkie]

4. Phosphorus comes from agricultural runoff, no? Not power plants.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/reflect/phosphorusandlakes.htm

Phosphorus enters lakes from a variety of sources. Some sources are natural, but human activities in a lake watershed greatly increase the phosphorus supply. For example, there are about 90 municipal and industrial treatment plants in the Lake Champlain Basin discharging phosphorus to the lake or its tributary rivers. However, most of the phosphorus entering Lake Champlain and other Vermont lakes comes from run-off from agricultural and developed land. The chief culprits are manure, crop and lawn fertilizers, soil erosion and paving of the landscape in a way that destroys the natural phosphorus-trapping functions of soil and vegetation.

[Hep]

11. Fertilizer and sewage

n/t

[Kolesar]

6. Phosphorous pollution is from agricultural runoff, not airborne pollution

The phosphorous would come from farms, golf courses, and lawns.

[bearfartinthewoods]

31. here is some evaluation of dean's record..real time

before the prez run....from 2001


Don't Applaud Vermont's Clean Water Plan until the
State Stops Muddying the Water

For three decades, the Agency of Natural Resources has virtually ignored this major source of water pollution. In the last 10 years, under Governor Dean, they have allowed more than 1,000 stormwater permits to expire - permits designed to regulate and control the sources of runoff pollution. Not surprisingly, with no one enforcing the laws, polluters blithely ignore regulations, and in some cases never bother to build treatment systems they're required to build.

Now, finally, the Governor says he's ready to clean up Vermont's waters - claiming he's ready to respond to laws that have been on the books since he first took office.

But at the same time he's talking clean-up, his Agency of Natural Resources is saying it will not enforce anti-pollution laws until next September at the earliest. Instead, they plan to issue "general permits" that will allow existing pollution to continue and, worst of all, new pollution to be added into the mix. They even propose to take Vermont's contaminated waters off of federal pollution lists - to avoid coming to grips with the law.

In a curious, almost surreal formula, the administration seems to be saying "Old Pollution + New Pollution = Vermont's Water Cleanup Plan."


http://www.clf.org/advocacy/Actions_Clean_Better.htm

[TrueAmerican]

41. Is that the same power industry that Dean met with in secret?

Or was that a different secret deal?

[quinnox]

3. Dean was opposed by some Green groups in Vermont

Fact.

[Hep]

5. Wow!

Big news!

Considering Gore was opposed by some Green groups all over the country. They're a different party. Opposition shocks you?

[JohnKleeb]

10. by Green, I believe the poster meant environmental groups

My apologies if I am wrong but I think thats it. The green party to my knowledge never ran a candiate against Dean, the progressive party with Anthony Polina did.

[Hep]

12. He capitalized Green, so

I just assumed. Thanks!

[JohnKleeb]

17. Its no problem

I hear Green groups and I think of environmental activists.

[quinnox]

18. Correct

I should have said environmental groups to make it more clear.

[JohnKleeb]

21. I thought so quin

Thats the term I usually use too.

[chocolateeater]

7. Did you know that New York

also borders Lake Champlain? Interesting fact isn't it.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flpoljunkie]

13. Vitriolic namecalling is non-responsive to the issue raised in the post.

Argue the issue, why don't you.

[Hep]

15. Frankly, it was the vitriolic nature of the post

that conjured up the Atwater reference. If you want to argue the issue, you have to demonstrate an open mind on the issue.

[flpoljunkie]

19. Post came a long article in the LATimes examining Dean's enviro record...

Perhaps you might want to read it, rather than namecall.

[Hep]

22. Where did I call you a name, please?

Maybe you should make sure that the claims you make about me are factual before you hit submit, thanks very much.

I would also urge you to use articles like this as the catalyst for learning MORE about the subject, rather than just quoting from is in criticism. Did you even KNOW Dean tried to address this problem? Did you care?

[flpoljunkie]

37. Perhaps you have not noticed that the original post on this was deleted.

Don't know if it was yours or not.

[Padraig18]

9. Would this be the Lake Champlain that is shared with NY state?

Of course ALL the pollution comes from Vermont, which has virtually NO heavy industry...

:eyes:

[Hep]

14. Dean was aware of the problem and

And was the first to take steps to address the problem. But you won't hear that from the supposedly open minded Dean opponents here:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/waterq/LakesPonds/LCTMDLrpt.pdf

[dave29]

16. I would bathe daily in Lake Champlain

if it meant I didn't have to live anywhere near Houston, Tx.

[lastliberalintexas]

35. LOL

You win the prize for best response of the day! :toast:

(Though anywhere along the Gulf Coast's Cancer Alley would have sufficied, ie. Port Arthur, Lake Charles, etc.)

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. Gotta love it when Democrats site articles using radical left opinions

and leave out the facts. :eyes:

Howard Dean worked hard to take care of Vermont's lakes. Unfortunately, the Republicans in state government have felt for a long time that Vermont's environmental regulations chase away business. So, they tend to use their majority to throw a wrench in efforts to deal with the environmental issues like this.

Here are a coupld of links to check out. The first is about a plan Dean, Pataki and the EPA came up with to address the Lake Champlain problems. The second link shows some of the efforts Dean has made to take care of Vermont's lakes. It includes a couple of rarely seen (outside of Vermont) photos of Dean.

http://www.state.ny.us/governor/press/oct28_2.html

http://dipin.kent.edu/Vermont.htm

[Hep]

23. It's just amazing how these articles are regurgitated

without the posters even attempting to find out what the other side of the story is. Not THAT amazing.

[flpoljunkie]

24. Then why would current Vermont gov. allocate $139M to meet fed standards

"Vermont's current governor, Republican Jim Douglas, followed with his own plan, a $139-million effort that aims to reduce the lake's pollution levels to meet federal standards."

Oh, and who is the "radical left" you refer to? The Sierra Club? The Los Angeles Times?

[Hep]

29. Because that is what's needed to solve the problem

this is a mystery?

:shrug:

[KaraokeKarlton]

38. You really need to understand Vermont politics before you take criticism

of Dean coming out of Vermont too seriously. It's a little tricky, but if you do a little "googling" you can sort out the truth. Here's the deal...

A lot of journalists will cite "Vermont Progressives" when talking about things Dean supposedly did or didn't do. The average non-Vermonter reading this will ASSUME they are talking about "progressive Democrats". Not true. They are talking about members of the Vermont Progressive Party, which are NOT Democrats. The journalists are using campaign/election rhetoric (which is totally warped, mangled and misleading) put out by a party competing with Democrats in Vermont. In this case, it's stuff tossed out there in an attempt to beat Dean in the governors race. Basically, it's like automatically believing what Bush said about McCain and Gore without bothering to check out whether it's actually true or not. Most Vermont Progressives are further left than Greens are. They didn't vote for Gore in 2000, they would have voted for Nader. Vermont has some pretty radically left people. I'm not talking Kucinich left...I'm talking PETA left. Some of them are off their rockers.

So, if you just want some baseless and dishonest turds to hurl in Dean's direction, you'll get what you want from these kinds of sources. But if you want truth and honesty you should probably dig a bit deeper and check the facts.

Heck, I don't even necessarily blame the journalists and groups citing this stuff because they don't know Vermont politics any more than the people repeating what they write. But the fact is, virtually all of the "information" posted on here that leads some of you to dislike Dean is simply dishonest information at best and total bullshit at worst.

:shrug:

[askew]

39. Thank you.

Thanks for the links and background on Dean's environmental record. There have been so many false statements/articles about Dean's VT record it helps having someone from VT who can actually refute some of the this nonsense.

[KaraokeKarlton]

40. You're welcome

In some cases I think it's an honest mistake when a supporter of someone else posts some of this type of garbage "information". Unless you understand exactly who this crap is coming from it's easy to be fooled by it. What really burns my bootie is when some Dean opponents have been made aware of the truth and still post this crap over and over again. It's sad when Democrats attack their own with propoganda and rhetoric used by their own opponents. :shrug:

[pnziii]

25. New York borders Lake Champlain

Did the Govoner of New York work towards cleaning up the pollution?

Why are you only blaming Dean?

[flpoljunkie]

26. I must point out that Pataki is not running for the Dem nomination.

Most of us Democrats want a candidate who is a committed environmentalist, and has a lifetime record of fighting for the environment.

[Hep]

28. Yeah, right.

The environment is the single issue!

[Duder]

32. Yeah, look how bad it is in Vermont...

http://www.envirofront.org/Publications/Lists_of_Note/Misc_Lists/D1List.html

;)

[Hep]

33. HANG HIM!

:P

[lastliberalintexas]

36. You've got to be kidding me!

You're telling me there are 4 states WORSE than Texas? Ok, yeah, I can see LA being 50. But goodness gracious! I can't imagine the other 3.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. What about the Canadian side?

I say we BLAME CANADA!! Who's with me??

[maddezmom]

30. NY was and has been working on it, here's a press release

http://www.nycanal.com/pressrelease/lakechamplainmanagementarea.html


Governors Pataki, Dean Renew Lake Champlain Management Plan
Agreement Allows Cooperative Interstate and International Programs To Continue
Press Release: NYS, December 15, 2000

Governor George E. Pataki and Vermont Governor Howard Dean today announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the State of New York, the State of Vermont and the Province of Quebec, which renews a 1996 agreement establishing cooperative environmental management programs for Lake Champlain.

<snip>

Governor Dean said, "This collaborative endeavor has provided a terrific means for addressing issues affecting Lake Champlain in a comprehensive manner. Lake Champlain is a wonderful resource, but between invasive species and nonpoint source pollution it needs our continued efforts to protect and clean it up."



<snip>

New York is already close to meeting a 20-year commitment of the plan for phosphorus reduction through funding made available from the Clean Water/ Clean Air Bond Act. Proposed by Governor Pataki in 1996, the Bond Act made $15 million available for phosphorus reduction projects from wastewater treatment plants and agricultural nonpoint source control projects.

more

[Bill McBlueState]

42. well,

Dean and Pataki had a Saturday morning date to get together and clean up the lake, using those little pointy sticks you use to pick up garbage.

But Dean got hungry for kittens and went to the Burlington Denny's instead. I hear Pataki was pissed. :eyes:

[TexasSissy]

34. I've heard vague rumblings about environmental problems

with Dean. I've just not heard specifics. This is interesting.