The only scenario for nominating Gore that works for the Party

[merbex]

With the recent Joe Klein Time article as well as the UK Telegraph article reporting or floating the idea of the same thing: namely that a core group of senior Party officials are examining the possibility of some super delegates remaining undeclared and abstaining on the first ballot at the Convention with the ultimate "purpose"of giving the nomination to Gore, it isn't quite an accurate scenario of what would work as I read it, and as many here have taken the great "what if".... a Gore nomination

It can work but I think only in the following fashion -

In order for this scenario to work as it is designed to do.... so that it unifies the Party and allows us to win in November, the "undeclared" super delegates are like observers (and must accept this new role) weighing the final rounds of this bruising primary battle.

Frankly, if a super delegate hasn't committed by this point, especially those in states which have already had their primaries or caucuses, then the overriding question must be asked... why haven't they? What is it about these 2 candidates that is making them hesitate to commit?

Irregardless of the reasons why, they have created a new role for themselves: observers of whether or not the 2 people candidates left can see this process play out and as the saying goes, modified for the occasion, "Let the best person win" if they can.

If one shows up in Denver and has enough delegates to win it on the first ballot....

Congratulations

But if a first ballot goes by without a nominee does anyone honestly expect movement from either camp of delegates to the other on the 2nd ballot? Or the 3rd ballot?

Hell, let it go 4, 5, or even 6 ballots. Let's be honest with ourselves - who will abandon their candidate at that point to go to the other's? Obama's to Clinton? Clinton's to Obama? - it isn't going to happen and we all know it. Only after endless ballots is it even plausible that then, and only then, fall back on the DH rule and then place Al Gore's name in nomination.

Only after 4,5,or6 ballots would people see this not as an usurpation of the process but as a way to break a logjam with a person both sides can come together on, can unify around.

Al Gore should not have to campaign for this nomination. He is being held in reserve as a last resort (but what a Cinderella story!) after a fair and open and long process has played out with no winner.

For those who would say, what about money? What about campaign structure for a General election?

Well, Democratic Party activists( of which I am one in MA)this is exactly what the 50 state strategy is designed to deal with.....get off your ass and elect a Democrat.

No pouting, no whining, you'd have 6 weeks to show the country that Al Gore has more experience in every area over John McCain and has the vision to deal with what ails America for the Presidential term encompassing Jan 2009 to Jan 2013.

It can be done.

It doesn't have to be this way if all undeclared super delegates commit before Denver and one of the 2 candidates wins the nomination on the first ballot...

But getting Al Gore nominated without too much rancour and getting him elected President over John McCain can be done.

We should be grateful he is there in reserve.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. I find this comment to be both sexist and racist.

Ugh.

[merbex]

5. Not if they see that the process after 4,5,or 6 ballots was fair

and open

It will be a bitter pill to swallow for both sides... after all that work neither side in this scenario "had enough to get over the line" but what's the alternative?

The answer is that someone needs to win on the first ballot and get some undeclared supers to committ.

That's the only alternative.

[kwenu]

23. There will only be ONE. I repeat. ONE BALLOT.

The SD's will cast their votes for the candidates who ran a campaign and who can get to the total needed to nominate a candidate under the rules. There are none in the leadership who would find anything else acceptable.

[MNDemNY]

3. Gore/Obama '08

This will be.

[shraby]

8. This will disenfranchise a lot of voters and

will carry a heavy penalty in November.

[MNDemNY]

11. You are wrong.

Both BHO and HRC will have a hard(next to imposable) time beating the republofucks in november. Having either of these two on the top of the ticket is a sure way to a Republofuck victory. IMO.

[CTyankee]

65. No, I don't think you are right. McCain is a weak candidate.

He hasn't offered any ideas on how to solve the incredibly serious problems we have coming to a head in this country. He is old and perhaps mentally unstable. He can't even get his foreign policy facts straight and that is supposed to be his strong suit. He has been around Washington too long to really be any kind of a maverick. And the current party in power is held in virtual contempt by the voting public. McCain offers the More of the Same. Voters would have to be either out of their minds or hard line RWingers to vote for this man. I'll grant you the hardliners, but overwhelmingly we have a huge advantage going into the GE. It will only get worse for McCain and only get better for us.

[merbex]

14. My personal thought on that is that you may be ignoring the Cinderella

aspects to the whole "Gore 2000 election 'stolen', chance to redeem what was lost" meme that would be played out in the media.

There is an irrestible narrative to it but I recognize that on this site partisans for candidates want to focus on their guy/gal winning and that is how it should be but I also think that this scenario should start to be placed in a corner of activist's minds as a way out of a deadlocked Convention.

[Window]

30. Not if Hillary has her way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5301477

"BIGGEST SURPRISE there weren't any Hillary & Obama signs, but just before Clinton arrived a group came in went down each sides of the building with Big ....Signs HILLARY & GORE, now isn't that the cats P.J"

[Life Long Dem]

4. Not interested

[merbex]

7. Then you better start hoping that your candidate can get

undeclared supers to committ before Denver because without that happening this scenario is becoming very likely

[Life Long Dem]

20. At this point in time, it's only Hillary supporters who want this.

Face it Hillary lost and no one is going to bring in someone to steal it from Obama. And who said they are going against the will of the people? No one.

[merbex]

32. Really, that's what you think? FYI I was a supporter of someone else but I am fully

committed to support whomever gets the nomination elected over McCain.

Let's be clear....

"close" or "closest" only counts in horseshoes.

To become the nominee the candidate must achieve or go over the number determined by the percentage of the total number of delegates sitting at the Convention not one less, not thisclose, not the one with the "popular vote"

One either gets that to number - the only one that counts - or we are headed to multiple ballots

Multiple ballots gives us a different nominee.

[Life Long Dem]

53. I didn't see Gore budge

Over the draft Gore and it was big enough to get him in if he chose to. Now that this come up there is suppose to be interest from him? Or is it from the Hillary losers?

[merbex]

55. It is patently obvious that the man himself ,and many people across America

who also consider him as somone who has already been elected President; I for one don't expect, and didn't expect him to run for this position.

I am grateful he is there as a "backup" with the stature to unite the Party and the country and defeat McCain should that be necessary.

How many ballots in Denver can your stomach endure without considering the Gore option?

My limit is six.

[Life Long Dem]

59. On the ticket with Obama is one thing I would favor.

The last thing I would want, would be to boot Obama out. That's the last thing though and it would have to get to that point and I don't see that happening. I don't see Super Delegate's going with Hillary.

[ClassWarrior]

6. It won't work for Gore or the Party. Leave him alone and let him...

...get on with the good things he's been doing.

NGU.

[merbex]

9. Closing your mind to the possibility, the very likely possibility

that unless undeclared supers start endorsing sooner rather than later (if ever the way too many are now) won't make this scenario go away.

[cali]

10. I will not vote for Albert Gore

notif I'm rich
or if I'm poor
not in the shade
or in the sun
I will not vote for anyone
who did not take the chance and run
who did not step into the fray
and fight to win it everyday
not on a boat
not on the shore
I will not vote for Albert Gore

[MNDemNY]

12. You'll be quite sad come January.

[cali]

17. I doubt it. I don't live in a childish fantasy waiting for some

white knight to rescue me.

[merbex]

16. If the scenario I described - multiple ballots comes to pass and there

isn't someone that can break the impasse....

We are looking for defeat anyway.

Your poem is a cute way to pout

Pouting won't win for us in November

[cali]

21. pie in the sky

the odds of the scenario you describe are so slim as not to be worth considering. Odds are very strong that this will not go to the convention. And I neither pout or live in your childish hero/rescue fantasy world.

[merbex]

25. Then why don't you explain for us why nearly every surrogate

for both sides are recently,publicly appearing on tv and radio interviews and pressuring, practically begging, for the substantial number of "undeclared" supers to committ?

I know they realize that unless those "supers" start committing, just exactly this scenario or one very similar to it will occur..... but maybe you know something those surrogates don't?

Please share.

Those undeclared "supers" have got to start committing sooner rather than later...that's the bottom line

[cali]

31. glad to share

first of all, who's "every surrogate"? Secondly, that will happen after the primaries finish up, and if Obama leads by the margin he currently enjoys, you will see the remaining SDs weighing in. Thirdly, in case you're really that unaware of it, the majority of SDs have endorsed, and in the last two months the vast majority of SD endorsements have gone to Obama.

Always glad to clear things up.

[merbex]

33. Leahy for one and Kerry today on ABC, plus Dean on Friday

There seems to be a massive push for supers to committ.

Because the reality at this moment is there are too many undeclared supers which is causing this scenario to be considered

Which begs the question....

Why are they still uncommitted?

Which begs the next question....

What is the effect of them staying undeclared?

Impassee and multiple ballots because the number of the undeclared is too high

[cali]

41. Leahyt said absolutely nothing about SDs

I know. I heard him on VPR. And Dean hasn't either. The reason there are 300 or so undeclared SDs is that they're waiting for things to sugar off during the remainder of the voting season. We're nowhere near an impasse yet.

[merbex]

43. Deab did say on CBS Morning show that he wanted the super delegates to

commit before the Convention

With the article in the Telegraph and Klein's article it is clear that the number crunching is worrisome

Very clear

[OzarkDem]

13. Our country is in crisis

We need to get a good Dem nominated to run against McCain, whatever it takes.

[Eurobabe]

15. No, it can't work, I voted for OBAMA, NOT GORE

If this scenario plays out, I am through with the USA. I will renounce my citizenship, you are no longer a DEMOCRACY!!!!

[merbex]

19. This isn't technically a "democracy" we are talking about...

This in the scenario I described, is a political Party trying to nominate someone that can unify a fractured Party after 4,5,5 or 6 ballots have failed to achieve a nominee

[Eurobabe]

36. Bullshit, we know who is pulling the strings. n/t

[merbex]

38. How many ballots achieving no nominee are you willing to watch on tv?

[YvonneCa]

50. This is not the election, or choosing electors...

...this is ONE PARTY choosing its nominee. Party members can do it however they wish. THEN, when we have a nominee, we get to vote. We live in a 'representative democracy'...not a direct democracy.

It's a bit childish to say, 'if I don't get my way, I will leave.' Citizens have a duty to stay and 'make it right.':patriot:

[noiretextatique]

18. i am grateful

because i don't see either obama or clinton winning in november.

[goldcanyonaz]

22. I don't either. They're both damaged goods.

[kwenu]

24. There will be only ONE BALLOT. Repeating. There will be only ONE BALLOT.

The potential nominees who can get to the 2,025 after SD preference is Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama. To think that SD's will fail to act accordingly, is utter fantasy. We love Gore but he is not in the running and won't be leading the Democratic ticket.

[merbex]

26. Do the math right now......

unless a substantial number of currently undeclared "supers" start committing now and up to Denver neither one has enough to get it on the first ballot.

That's what has everyone so nervous.

[Joe the Revelator]

28. Like Dean said, this will be over by 7/1/2008

I'd predict MUCH sooner then that.

[merbex]

34. Dean is pushing undeclared supers to commit because he can

count

So can I

And I agree with him

Unless more undeclared supers start committing we are looking at a deadlocked Convention.

[Joe the Revelator]

39. You're jumping the cart pretty damn far.

[merbex]

42. I prefer to say that I am facing reality when I look at the number of

undeclared super delegates

And I am willing to consider the effect of someone not getting the nomination on the first ballot will be on the Party and the Nation.

Rivetting tv but bitterly divisive

[cali]

45. lol. I'm sure you do prefer to say that, but you're still living in a delusional

little fantasy. If you actually dwelled in realityville, you'd wait until June to make your silly prognostications. If by then, most of the remaining SDs haven't committed, you'd have some grounds to speculate.

[merbex]

48. Does it not concern you about the number of undeclared supers

from states who have already had their primaries and caucuses go by?

It is a substantial number.

It is those people who are precipating this scenario not I.

People should ask themselves, as I wrote on another comment in this thread... how many ballots are you willing to watch on tv go by without a nominee without considering the prospect of a Gore nomination.

My stomach reaches it's limit at six...

But maybe your's is stronger than mine.

I am simply stating that unless either of them show up in Denver without enough to win it on the first ballot we are facing this and we can deal with it relatively nicley or we can really kill our chances in November.

[kwenu]

54. The SDs are waiting for the end of the primaries in early June. That is when the presumptive nominee

will be declared. There will be no floor battle. You can count on that.

[merbex]

56. And you know that how?

Guess Cong. Tim Mahoney must have missed your memo

There are 4 members of Congress from my state of MA who are undeclared.... do you really think there are any consequences for them, being from MA that Pelosi or Obama or Clinton or Dean can do if they stay on the fence?????

Zero, none.

They( the 4 Congress memebers from MA) will still be re-elected without any help from that group I just listed

If they want to stay undeclared....

They will and I bet there are many, many, more supers just like them

[kwenu]

57. I know people. You know people. Time will prove me correct.

[merbex]

58. You still haven't answered....how many ballots can your stomach

take before considering a Gore/alternative nominee?

[kwenu]

60. It would be equal to the same number of ballots that can be cast and considered within 7 days.

[merbex]

61. You know what they say..... continuing to do something over and over

expecting a different result is the definition of insanity

In the situation you seem to consider and seem willing to tolerate,- endless ballots - it also means sure defeat in November

[kwenu]

62. You asked, I answered. Telling me there will be endless ballots is like telling me I might be struck

by lightning when I leave the house. It possible, but extremely remote, and I have other more pressing things that I should be spending my time on.

[cali]

63. I doubt you know how many undeclared SDs there are from

states that already held their primaries as you didn't even know how many there are in total.

Your posts are flat out ridiculous. The convention is 5 months away, and you have your little plastic ball out predicting a debacle of 5 acts. It's too early to make such predictions. It simply looks foolish.

You don't have the vaguest idea what will happen in the next couple of months, and neither do I. It's time to put on your big kid panties and wait until the voting ends.

[merbex]

67. Ever been to this website :demconwatch.blogspot.com?

you can track each state's super delegates - especially those who are still "undeclared"

at this link:
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html

Enjoy

Or not

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Is this the new false hope that Hillfans are pinnin their dreams on?

Its not going to happen folks. As Dean said, this is over by 7/1/2008

[Skidmore]

29. As much as I like Gore, he has not been a candidate for this office.

I don't think he can rescue the party without having been a candidate, and I think you grossly underestimate peoples' sensibilities on this matter.

[merbex]

37. Sensibiliies of what people? The delegates of either candidate?

Look, all I am saying is that unless someone wins on the first ballot I don't think either side's delegates are going to budge on succeeding ballots.

Not in this atmosphere.

The general public's sensibilities? After watching a deadlocked convention the public will see a divided Party..... we all better hope that someone shows up with enough to win it on the first ballot....otherwise as I said this scenario will only work after 4,5,or 6 ballots as a way to break a logjam and unify around an candidate acceptable to both sides.

At that point we are lucky we have someone like Gore to be there to accept it under those conditions

[YvonneCa]

52. Maybe he's running...

...a non-traditional campaign. ;)

[thewiseguy]

35. I will quit this party if Gore is picked as the nominee

[merbex]

40. Enjoy whining and pouting do you? Say hello to Bush' 3rd term n/t

[thewiseguy]

44. Say hello to my ignore box

[merbex]

47. I might care if I hadn't checked to see you been here a whopping

5-6 weeks

Your name suits you, a**hole

[YvonneCa]

51. That is your right...

...in a representative democracy. You can choose any party that suits you. :) I happen to like the Democratic Party, myself.

[OzarkDem]

64. How long have you been a member

of the Dem party? Just curious.

[JoFerret]

46. IF it is true that rabid partisans

of either Clinton or Obama will refuse to vote in large numbers than Gore does become an answer.

[merbex]

49. Exactly, and only after 4,5,or 6 ballots with no nominee n/t

[JoFerret]

66. ...and neither Obama nor Clinton on the ticket.

Edwards?