My understanding of Obamas tax records is he is working class citizen in that if he or....

[uponit7771]

...his wife LOSE their jobs they can't afford their CURRENT life styles...

Any other tax person out there can verify his income percentage (whether or not he's a 1 percenter) it would be nice.

To me this is HUGE!!!!

A working stiff (albeit, a rich working stiff) in the White House would be nice for a change.

Thx

[rinsd]

1. Obama has at least 4 years left of Senate service at above 6 figures in yearly income.

I would hardly call him a working stiff.

[uponit7771]

5. Little it be known a 6 figure income is no longer wealthy in this country...a six figure income in..

...Chicago with a family of 4 is working class.

Yes, the value of our dollar since the 80's has falling that much...

Being connected with taxes does allow some perspective.

[karynnj]

21. Especially when he needs a place to live in both DC and Chicago.

[uponit7771]

29. Right, they're not getting the fact that Hillary doesn't have to work a day in her life anylonger...

...where as the Bama's HAVE to work to keep what they currently have.

[rinsd]

33. Do you seriously consider a 2 home family that made over $1.5M after taxes as working stiffs?

I don't begrudge the man his wealth (which certainly is far smaller than many other members of Congress) but the comparison of the Obama's family financial situation to real working class people is insulting.

There's a huge difference between making $200K+ a year and making $46K.

[uponit7771]

35. in ONE year? Come on...he didn't make that dough UNTIL the book deal and that STILL wont

...keep his current lifestyle afloat.

Now I do get your point about hot dogs but looking at the guys liabilities no one can answer that.

He should allow us to be extra nosey and look at his FIXED assets and we'll see the real deal.

But looking at McSames net worth and Hillary's I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt they wont miss money when they lose their jobs.

[northzax]

95. well, as long as he can get sweetheart financing

for his house, he'll be fine.

even without the book income, the Obamas combined for over $500,000 in take home pay last year. take home. after taxes.

If he were to lose his job in the Senate, he would have to make do on his pension from the Senate (about $65,000 tax free for a one termer) and his wife's $300k+ job. he'll make another couple of hundred thousand in book sales this year, which will probably put him over a million in three years. if they don't have $500k cash in the bank, on top of their various investments, they need new advisors, in a hurry. Remember, he's drawing a $150,000 paycheck from the Senate for a job he doesn't show up for (as is Hillary, of course) They are in significantly better financial shape than the Clintons were in 1992. Even if he loses, and quits the Senate, he'll make more the next year than most people will in ten lifetimes. I bet $5-7 million in consulting and speaking fees. let's say $4million for a book advance, 20 speeches at $200,000 (to seriously lowball them), five or six corporate boards at $100,000, and a law firm rainmaking gig of $2-3 million. Hardly 'working class'

[JackintheGreen]

6. But most of his income is from his books

They won't always sell, and he may not write more (or there won't be a market). The current salary of a senator is just under 170K, and that is used to maintain two households. He's hardly rolling in it either.

[rinsd]

10. So you would consider a two home family with a minimum $170K to draw upon as working stiffs?

While I would not consider him wealthy, I don't think you can call him a working stiff.

[uponit7771]

13. Tax wise he is, he's not a 1 percenter and prolly not a 5 percenter either. IF he or his wife loses

...their jobs their life style changes that can't be said for Hillary or McSame.

THAT IS HUGE!!!

He's in the same boat, in all practical purposes, that a person making the mean avg of 46k a year is in...they both would have to change their life styles.

[rinsd]

16. Obama would have to give up a 2nd home while Mr. $46K would be eating mac & cheese.

Yeah they're in the same boat :eyes:

To my knowledge, the only Congress member who seems wholly dependent upon his salary is Dennis Kucinich.

[uponit7771]

17. No, not true, he's PAYING for the homes with his current income...I think a poster stated we need a

...fixed asset list to really see how rich he is and it'd be nice to see a net worth chart outside of yearly income but on the fact of it it does look like if he or his wife lose their jobs they lose their homes also.

Someone who's working rich can't keep up their CURRENT lifestyle without a job...I don't see how the Bama's can do that via their tax return ESPECIALLY in the pre senate years...

Wow, those loans weren't fun

[rinsd]

28. Who cares about maintaining current lifestyle, I'm talking survival.

Do you have any idea how insulting it is to say someone with equity who earns well over 6 figures a year is in the same boat as someone making minimum wage?

They aren't even on the same planet.

[uponit7771]

32. They are if they're both eating hotdogs after they lose their jobs because of liabilities. I dont...

...want to pick fly crap out of pepper but I'm considering a persons solvency base on working status.

There's NO way the same can be said about Hillary, she doesn't have to work a day in her life any longer to maintain her current lifestyle same goes for McSame.

[rinsd]

44. So what? What does Hillary have to do with it?

You made a ridiculous claim that the Obama(who are currently millionaires) are in the same boat as someone making the mean of $46K a year.

It was insulting hyperbole.

You could have just as well compared the Obama wealth vs the rest of Congress or even just Hillary & McCain is you wanted to.

That would have actually made sense and given you your point.

[uponit7771]

54. She doesn't have to work a day in her life anylonger while the Bama's do, that to me is HUGE because

...someone even NEAR the level of the working class is better than ivory tower types who don't NEED the job.

[rinsd]

58. So how does that make a millionaire a working stiff?

Hint: It doesn't and its insulting to people who actually are working stiffs.

[uponit7771]

61. do you understand assets vs. liabilities?

[JackintheGreen]

40. His 2nd home is NOT a luxury

Or would you suggest he commute from Chicago everyday (that congress is in session). That's a hell of a drive.

Would you like to vacation in lovely Washington, D.C., or do you prefer St. Tropez (sp?)? He won't be hurting for work when he retires from politics, but his books seem to be anomalies in his annual income, and they won't last.

[rinsd]

48. So you consdier him a working stiff? Equal to the guy making $46K?

That's my point.

Compare his wealth with other Congress members as a means of showing that he is far from wealthy in that "class" but don't tell real working stiffs that a millionaire is in the same boat as they are.

[uponit7771]

53. Come on, I said albeit a rich one, he's a top 10% earner that can't SUSTAIN without their....

...current WORKING income.

[rinsd]

59. Rich working stiff is an oxymoron.

[uponit7771]

68. prolly, but they don't have enough money to make it work for them yet.

[northzax]

98. so, neither could the Clintons in 1992

if Obama wins the white house, I guarantee the year he leaves office he makes $20 million. and his wife will make another 7-8. then they will be the rich elitists that everyone here rails against.

[northzax]

97. I know a nice studio apartment on Capitol Hill

$650/month. after all, he's never there.

[matt819]

20. Absolutely a working stiff (nt)

[uponit7771]

23. Right, 100k in some cities is working class and the Bama's can't keep their CURRENT lifestyle ....

...without working were as Hillary and McSame don't have to work another day in their lives.

[JackintheGreen]

45. I wonder where this term comes from?

Would I apply it to him? Probably not because the connotation seems inappropriate. I, however, am physically stiff from my labor. Is that the root?

Anyway...he works hard for his money, so hard for his money, so you better treat him right!

[uponit7771]

67. LOL!! nice

[uponit7771]

11. Right, little it be known the value of our dollar since the 80s has fallen DRASTICALLY!! 100k in New

...York or Chicago or LA is middle class now.

[indimuse]

31. doesn't Michelle make around

3/4 of a Mil?? OK...

[uponit7771]

52. That's why I said he OR his wife, they lose their jobs they change their lifestyles. They dont have

...enough fixed income to sustain the current lifestyle for ever.

On the OTHER hand Hillary and McSame are set up for life...

[uponit7771]

2. Kicking on thread, I don't see him as a 1 percernter, THAT'S HUGE!

[DangerDave921]

3. A working stiff?

That term is usually reserved for lower/middle income folks with blue-collar workaday jobs. Hardly a fitting description for a US Senator, especially one whose wife makes a ton as an exec.

But yes -- I'd like a president who knows what it's like to have a regular job. Bush and Clinton are so far removed from regular life as to be insulated. I don't think Obama has quite gotten to that point.

[uponit7771]

8. Working stiff taxes wise is someone who can't afford their CURRENT life style out of work. Meaning..

..EVERYONE who loses a job usually has to change a life style EXCEPT the independently rich or wealthy, Obama's aren't that and I can see through their tax return.

Yes, the Reich has used the term "working stiff" to exclude the working rich and we shouldn't be because my toilet paper cost the same as anyone else's. If I lose my job I'll be in the same boat as someone who makes minimum wage.

[rinsd]

14. IOW, you've inflated the scale to ridiculous proportions to call Obama a working stiff.

Sorry a working stiff is someone who cannot survive without their job not merely being unable to maintain their current lifestyle.

I don't think you can equate living off mac & cheese with forgoing a vacation or moving from a McMansion to a normal size house.

[uponit7771]

19. My litmus is their lifestyle CHANGES (it doesn't matter to what degree) due to a working stiffs....

...expense COULD be VERY low and they not have to have an immediate life style change either.

Take a person working a steel workers job with a family of four living in an 2 bdroom apartment making 76k in Burmingham AL for instance...

That person losing their job aint going to be hurting till 3 - 6 months after UE benefits etc are gone.

That's what I mean by "lifestyle"...

Rich doesn't mean liquid nor financially solvent at a specific life style

Were as, Hillary NOR McSame don't have to work a day in the life any longer...

[rinsd]

37. Then your litmus test is ridiculous. And your ignorance is astounding.

"Take a person working a steel workers job with a family of four living in an 2 bdroom apartment making 76k in Burmingham AL for instance...

That person losing their job aint going to be hurting till 3 - 6 months after UE benefits etc are gone."

Yeah because they wouldn't change their lifestyle one iota when the job is lost, they would wait until all sources of income are gone :eyes:

[uponit7771]

43. Doesn't matter, the Obama's nor the steel work can sustaine their life styles indefinantly without..

..working looking at the current net worth and seeing that it's not liquid.

I think my point stands even assuming his fixed assets are mostly in real estate.

[rinsd]

57. I consider the lfiestyle of 3 squares vs vacations to the Caribbeans as different.

"I think my point stands even assuming his fixed assets are mostly in real estate."

How does your point stand?

Obama has at minimum 4 years left in the Senate making $170,000 which include free healthcare for him & his family and that does not include wife's income, income derived from book sales or speaking engagements or anything else.

In 4 years he will make as much money as it will take our mean guy Mr $46K to make in nearly 15 years.

Working stiff my ass.

[uponit7771]

64. Either one is in the same WORKING boat, don't understand what you're issue is...Hillary doesn't have

...to work a day in her life to afford either one of the lifestyles you name were as the Bama's do.

My understanding is BJC was in the same position as Obama which IMHO made him a good prez at first.

[JuniperLea]

84. And wealthy people NEED a mortgage!

That mortgage interest tax break is critical to them!

If Obama can't manage to pay his bills and stash a ton of money away for a rainy day or retirement, he's living WAAAAAAAAY above his means and he's a raving loon.

[DangerDave921]

24. Agreed

That poster was using a totally inflated standard. Obama could quit his job, and his wife's salary (which I think is a couple hundred grand a year???) would support them just fine.

So is the guy who makes a million a year but spends that much a working stiff? Even though he has a fleet of cars, and boats, and a mansion, and a house in France?

[uponit7771]

39. Not true, if he loses his job that can NOT sustaine their lifestyle indefinantly where as Hillary

...and McSame can.

[DangerDave921]

50. OK

But that's an aritifical standard. Who decided that ability to maintain current lifestyle indefinitely is some kind of benchmark?

Wonder if Bill and Hillary ever repaid all those folks who donated to their legal fund back in the '90's. Remember those? Now they are rolling in dough.

[uponit7771]

66. Well, it's a bench mark to me because someone who NEEDS to work is in the same exact boat IMHO...

...as most Americans.

They're not rich and aren't in another CULTURE of thinking...

If you know some REALLY rich people that have their money working for them they think different and IMHO they're in another culture of being and think VERY VERY different from the rest of us no matter what their color of skin is.

[DangerDave921]

72. Obama is rich

Sorry to burst your populist bubble.

[uponit7771]

74. Rich doesn't cut it any longer, sorry to bust the bubble of corporatist and that's sad

[FrenchieCat]

4. Agreed!

compare.....

[futureliveshere]

7. OMG!! Thats a good one cat!!

It will be just INCREDIBLE when Obama becomes the President.

[uponit7771]

9. Thank you, JUST what I thought...Obamas are NOT liquid millionaires...PEOPLE THIS IS HUGE!!!!!

[FrenchieCat]

12. All one has to do is to look at his Liabilities.........

compared to his fixed asset worth.

[uponit7771]

15. ...I'm thinking his book deals might have netted some cheddar but not in the mulit million dollar ..

..range.

While this might not be something he should hype during a campaign I can see this being a decider for a lot of people I know.

He's in the same boat my wife and I are...I like that :-)

[rinsd]

22. He got $850K up front for Audacity of Hope.

And it was a NYT bestseller.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/books/09obam.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/S/Sales

Both of his books have been selling well.

According to Nielsen BookScan, which tracks 70 percent of industry sales, combined sales for Obama's Dreams From My Father and The Audacity of Hope averaged more than 35,000 a week in late February, more than triple the pace of early January, when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton was still favored to be the Democrat nominee.

His tax returns show over $2.5M in income the last two years and over $1M the 5 years prior.

Working stiff my ass.

[uponit7771]

26. In that case he JUST came into some real money and 850k doesn't keep his CURRENT lifestyle solvent..

...UNLESS he has very little liabilities and seeing he just bought a 1.6 million dollar house I very much doubt that.

10% of 2 million liquid (which he doesn't have) would net you a person 200,000 a year BEFORE cap gaines taxes.

This guy loses his job he loses his lifestyle period.

[northzax]

101. she's 14 years older than he is

and has made more money. what do you expect? you think when he's 60 he won't be worth that much, or in the ballpark? please.

[mrJJ]

18. Double check HRC figures

Just a financial but one heck of a spread $10 Mill too $50 mill? 47 pages

Hillary Clinton (D-NY) - 2006 Politician Profile Net Worth: From $10,360,009 to $51,021,998 Ranks 9th among all members of the Senate. Assets: 10 totaling $10,460,009 to $51,052,000. Liabilities: 2 totaling $30,002 to $100,000.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/candlook.php?txtName=clinton

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=N00000019&year=2006

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/candlook.php?capcode=h3mpd&CID=N00000019&submit=Submit

[redqueen]

25. So they went from $35M in 2006 to $50M in 2007?

[Johnny__Motown]

30. book sales? speaking fees from Bill?

[DangerDave921]

27. 2006?

How did Obama earn nearly $1 million in 2006?

[northzax]

102. book sales

or at least an advance.

[AGirl]

34. working class? PLEASE.

how insulting.

[uponit7771]

36. I said working rich, if he loses his job he loses his lifestyle THAT is working class. He's not

...independently rich or wealthy

[AGirl]

38. nice try, your topic title shows otherwise.

[uponit7771]

41. Where...here's what I said...inside

ing class citizen in that if he or....his wife LOSE their jobs they can't afford their CURRENT life styles...

Current lifestyles is the key, their houses are NOT paid for that is a HUGE part of their expenses.

Also, living off hot dogs and living in 1.6 million dollar house isn't "current lifestyle".

On the other hand Hillary and McSame are set for life, they don't HAVE to work at INCLUDING their spouses to keep their current lifestyle afloat.

[AGirl]

46. And I am a Canadian in that I visit Canada in the summer.

[northzax]

99. you keep saying he is 'going to lose his job'

you know he is guaranteed to keep it for another two years, right? even if he decided to retire, he'd still have two years at $150k+ to work off of, and a harvard educated lawyer wife who could triple her salary as a lobbyist, if she chose to.

[msallied]

42. Nevermind the fact that if he loses the Presidency

and stays in the Senate, a life as a Senator is not necessarily lucrative. He'll HAVE to keep writing books or doing speaking engagements to keep up his lifestyle. Working in government was never meant to be a path to riches.

[uponit7771]

47. Right, he'd his current lifestyle can't be sustained indefinantly with the money he makes while...

...Hillary and McSame are set for life.

I think some of the benefits congress has set up gives them a leg up on health care etc but it aint like he'll be puffing cigars in the Key's at this point in their lives.

[crispini]

49. You have an interesting definition of "working stiff"

I guess I'd fall into that category, if I lost my job I would be cutting way, way back. :shrug:

[uponit7771]

56. So would the bama's, if EITHER one of them lose their jobs they couldn't afford their currernt ....

...lifestyle for ever.

While Hillary and McSame are set up for life and don't need their current senate incomes.

[susankh4]

51. Working class.... yeah right.

Would that be blue collar, too?

[uponit7771]

60. Nope, just has to work to keep current lifestyle while Hillary & McSame don't have to

[pnwmom]

55. Bill Clinton had much less in assets when he ran. Was that HUGE, too? n/t

[uponit7771]

62. That would, and I think that's what made him a decent president at first.

[ginnyinWI]

63. Working Class is the wrong term

That means people earning somewhere around 50K a year, and you could also call them lower middle class. Up from that would be people under 100K, middle class. Those earning above 100K would be upper middle.

I'd put the Obamas in upper-middle class, not working class, means people working for wages, punching a clock. He's a professional (doctors, lawyers, engineers) and they earn above 100K.

Don't hold me to these figures--it was so a few years ago when I was in school--but they're in the ballpark.

But at the same time, the Obamas can't be called rich, because that would mean not having to work. Rich people have their money work FOR them. He's not that well off--and I agree with the above posters who say that it's a good thing. He knows what it's like to have very little, too, and do menial jobs. And has seen poverty close up while working in Chicago.

[uponit7771]

65. RIGHT!! Thx for the correct, upper middle class folk that aren't leisure class yet.

[cooolandrew]

69. Yep compared to most on the Hill he is the former little guy creating the dream.

[uponit7771]

71. Right, I think he's in the self actualization stage of life on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs chart

...and that person is good for a while until they start living the culture of their actualization IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Some rich folk can 'forget' where they come from, I think the Clintons might fit in that category right now...

[JuniperLea]

70. If he has no investments on that size income... he's an idiot...

Making that much money would guarantee any thinking person a great lifestyle and the promise of that continued lifestyle. If he hasn't provided for that, he's a freaking idiot and is living above his REAL means.

[uponit7771]

73. Not really, 10% return (and that would be AWESOME) on 2 million liquid (principle) is only 200k a...

...year and that doesn't cover their CURRENT liabilities.

He doesn't have enough money for his money to work for him to keep his current lifestyle and niether does 90% of the rest of America.

Hillary on the other hand does and the same goes for McCaint

[JuniperLea]

76. You're delusional if you think that is so...

I've held a securities license for over eight years... if his liabilities are that large that he cannot cover them and sock a ton of money away in something safe, he is living WAY above his means.

[uponit7771]

77. You know his houses aren't paid for right? He might have equity but they're not paid off...you know

...that right?

[JuniperLea]

80. The whole world is mortgaged...

But the SMART homeowner, and the smart investor, knows how to work the system and obtain a mortgage that is within their means. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to buy above his means. A mortgage doesn't preclude a person from sound investing, unless that mortgage is too big. If he's living above his means in TWO houses he can't afford, he's a fucking dumbass.

[uponit7771]

82. Don't understand your position, 90% of America has a mortgage and has to work to pay for it just ...

...like the Bama's on the other hand Hillary and McSame aren't in that boat.

[JuniperLea]

83. What you don't understand is...

The wealthiest of us have mortgages. And they have HUGE mortgages! They need the tax break. You would be foolish to pay flat out for a home if you are wealthy. If you are poor or retired and have the opportunity, it makes a lot of sense to do that. But if you are wealthy, you need the tax break far more than you need the cash flow!

[uponit7771]

85. If you're not paying income tax why would one need the breaks? Again, if you're not working then cap

...gains etc is all you pay off dividends etc. If you have a Roth IRA then hell, you don't even pay that.

[JuniperLea]

88. How the hell do you figure they get away without paying income tax???

Deductions! Deductions up the gazzu! You are grasping at straws now! And you can't draw from your IRA until you retire! You should really step back and think about this... seems your arguments are falling apart.

[uponit7771]

89. I don't want to be argumenative either, I think I stated my position below and there's nothing we've

...said that has negated that point.

[JuniperLea]

91. Be willfully ignorant if you choose... fine by me...

but for your own financial well-being, you should educate yourself in finance.

[Adelante]

75. This argument is pretty out there

First of all, their current lifestyle is not remotely a working class lifestyle. It's an upper middle class lifestyle. If they both lost their jobs, they are two lawyers who could stick out a shingle or two without a hitch and be making a lot more money than they ever have in their lives. So their lifestyle is not threatened, even if they lost their jobs. Being working class is partly about prospects. If the economy is favorable you can work yourself into the middle class. The Obamas' prospects are light years different than a dry cleaning clerk's. The most that can be said is they have working class roots, particularly Michelle. But to compare them to those in American society who struggle from paycheck to paycheck is really weird. This is not to say they never had to watch their spending or lived high on the hog in years past. They certainly lived modestly as a result of their career choices, and God bless them for it. But any day they felt like it, they could have taken jobs in high-powered law firms or Wall Street brokerages or hedge funds and raked in the bucks. Working class people do not have escape hatches standing at the ready: They are either trapped where they are or they get lucky enough to break out of the working class. This is simply not Obama's position in life and there is something absurdly grandiose in claiming it is.

[uponit7771]

78. ...on the other hand Hillary and McSame dont HAVE to work any longer. The Obama's don't have enough.

...money to make their money work for them to sustain their CURRENT lifestyle for ever.

Again, McSame and Hillary do

To me that's important, they NEED their jobs

[Adelante]

79. Comparing them to the other candidates is something else

It's the difference between great wealth and modest wealth, but it's still wealth. Again, needing jobs, for two professionals, is not the same as being working class, because the prospects are night and day.

[uponit7771]

81. Hmmm, I disagree...if you need your job you HAVE to work. I don't see a case where the Bama's don't

...have to work.

We can all eat hot dogs and live out of our cars if you're talking about the lowest common denominator...yeah, they might not have to work any longer if they change their lifestyle to that degree.

[JuniperLea]

86. You are correct!

The working class don't generally own two homes... and they are living paycheck to paycheck these days. I'm quite sure the Obamas are NOT in that category!

[uponit7771]

87. I'm definiing working class as people who HAVE to work to keep current lifestyle that's all...

[JuniperLea]

90. Well, there's the problem... your definition is flawed...

And you seem to have a very large disconnect between lifestyle and living within ones means! Not everyone who is living a posh lifestyle should be... for their own good. You should see how many million dollar homes in Los Angeles are now bank owned!

[uponit7771]

92. k, that's your opinion...I, like most Americans HAVE to work to pay for thier homes and if I, like

...most Americans and the Bama's lose my job I can't pay for my home while the Clinton's and McSame don't have to work any longer and still own their homes because of their net worth.

That's really what it comes down to for me.

I could care less how much money Obama makes per year, his net work isn't enough to sustain his current lifestyle....like 90% of the rest of Americans.

[JuniperLea]

93. When Obama is the age of the Clintons or the McCains...

You can bet your last dollar he will be in the same position. He would earn two to six times his current income working in the private sector. That is how it works... you pay your dues and live on a mere $170k :eyes: then you move on to the big bucks.

Don't cry for the Obamas... don't waste the salt water. He's well on his way to being exactly like the Clintons and the McCains, financially speaking.

[uponit7771]

94. True, you have a point. But he's not there yet & that's where I can relate to him for now....for now

[JuniperLea]

96. I used to work for one of the wealthiest men in Los Angeles...

And I've worked for one of the wealthiest families in Canada as well. Unless you are "one of them" you really can't relate. Their mindset is completely different than the REAL working class. WE really have nothing in common with them. Obama only makes $100k more than I do... this year... in five years, that spread will close to around $70k... but by then, Obama will be earning in excess of $6 million a year. You can bank on that. Obama's path is clear... he will be one of them.

[northzax]

103. indeed

in 1992, the Clintons lived on Hillary's salary from the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock (about $300,000 and Bill's $35,000 as governor) nice, especially in Little Rock, but hardly fuck you money.

[northzax]

100. they don't 'need their jobs'

he is, in fact, seriously underpaid as a Senator. remember, he can't be laid off from that job on two week's notice.