It's over. Clinton can't win. Let's move on.

[kpete]

Monday, March 24, 2008

It's time to take a deep breath and be honest.
It's over. Clinton can't win. Let's move on.

by Joe Sudbay (DC) · 3/24/2008 05:36:00 PM ET ·


Hillary Clinton has lost. She cannot win the Democratic nomination without causing a civil war in the Democratic party. Her recent actions, especially comparing herself to, and praising, McCain while undermining Obama, make it appear that she is willing to do just that -- split the party in two. Seriously, can you imagine McCain saying that that he had a lifetime of experience, Hillary had a lifetime of experience, but Romney didn't? That would never happen. It's unacceptable. And it has to stop. I get that it sucks to lose. But, it happens. Hillary needs to get over it, and let's get on with the real campaign.

The first step needs to be an end to the daily campaign conference calls. They sure feed the media frenzy, but they ultimately do nothing to aid our effort to defeat John McCain. Seriously, look at the Politico or the Page or Swampland at Time.com and any of the other political reporters and you'll see how much they love those conference calls. Always some good vicious soundbites, but is that what we need right now? Hardly. Every time the Clinton campaign piles on, they are now actually aiding and abetting McCain.

Any of the party leaders who are waiting to endorse until a later date should listen in on one of these conference calls. (Anne Marie Cox usually posts the audio at Swampland). Then, they need to ask themselves if they want two more months of this while John McCain just coasts along, saving his money and his reputation, when Hillary Clinton cannot win the nomination anyway. The Superdelegates and the DNC need to decide if they want two more months of the vitriol, and a divided, bitterly divided party, or do they want a Democratic White House come next January? It's time for some leadership -- or something more akin to an intervention. Otherwise, we're on a path to Mutually Assured Destruction. And so far, our party elders don't seem to care.

..........

The system is based on pledged delegates and super-delegates. Period. There's a set of rules everyone agreed on. The wisdom of those rules is irrelevant at this point. The Clinton campaign is entitled to do whatever it wants to get superdelegates to come over to her side to even out the pledged delegate deficit. My take is that whatever the arguments, the superdelegates aren't going to go against a clear pledged delegate leader. And I think they'd be extremely ill-advised to do so. But the superdelegates do have this power under the rules. But these constant efforts to say the rules aren't fair are just silly, and truth be told I think they're more undermining of the Clinton campaign than they realize.

more at:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/185225.php
and:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/its-time-to-take-deep-breath-and-be.html
and:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/24/132651/184/850/483236

[Clintonista2]

1. Let it sink

[Blue-Jay]

3. OK!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. Sure

[clevbot]

113. let it soar

[Taxmyth]

211. Obama politics of deception

Sure, the Obama supporters want Senator Clinton to drop out. That way the more we learn about Senator Obama the less it effects his chances to run for President.

Obama supporters want to keep things hidden about Senator Obama - Things like Rezko, Pastor Wright and say, haven't heard much from Michelle lately. She's been known to say a thing or two to make voters think about having her as a First Lady.

So let it sink, let it soar, whatever. Game the boards, hide information and promote propoganda. That seems to be what Senator Obama's supporters practice and it makes me look even closer to see if this is what he does as well.

[LTR]

32. Let it soar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woLQI8X2R6Y

"Let the eagle soar,
Like she’s never soared before.
From rocky coast to golden shore,
Let the mighty eagle soar.
Soar with healing in her wings,
As the land beneath her sings:
'Only god, no other kings.'
This country’s far too young to die.
We’ve still got a lot of climbing to do,
And we can make it if we try.
Built by toils and struggles
God has led us through."

:evilgrin:

[bjnumb9]

209. Yes! Yes! This song is amazing!

:headbang:

[rateyes]

33. Whatever you say...

Damn. I realized I just kicked it. Oh, well.

I might as well recommend it, now.

[L0oniX]

62. Welcome to my ignore dungeon.

[Tesha]

64. Aren't you guys on "Boycott" yet? (NT)

[Alexander]

69. Sure thing. Oops, I think it got kicked somehow.

:evilgrin:

[Yael]

90. Sure thing, Chief!

K&R!

[Pawel K]

93. Will do. However, I did accidentally hit recommend, I'm sorry.

[Divine Discontent]

101. you like encouraging kicks apparently eom

[me b zola]

114. That's what we're saying

"Senator Clinton, your ship has sunk, please stop trying to bail any more water...leave some in the ocean."

[TahitiNut]

123. Ubetcha!

Oops! :blush:

[ekwhite]

134. Dude - you aren't supposed to kick it!

Oops! :smoke:

[ThatBozGuy]

151. Woops

O8)

[Ian_rd]

154. Oops? What happened?

Is there anything I can do to help? :D

[ThatBozGuy]

156. No I think I got it. But thanks

[CalGator]

130. okay -nt

[racaulk]

164. .

:kick:

[GoneOffShore]

166. Uh, no.

Kick it up.

[Lerkfish]

169. ah! thanks

O knew I'd missed one or two

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barrymores Ghost]

194. Wow, that was classy....

....and so reminiscent of something you'd find under a rock on another political BB web site.....wait...the name will come to me...

[Barrymores Ghost]

195. Uh-oh....Looks like I hit the wrong button. K&R

[Barrymores Ghost]

196. Sorry. I'll be sure to ignore it next time.

You have a nice day, now.

[IronLionZion]

197. ya sure youbetcha

:P

[Jed Dilligan]

223. Aren't you just bursting with originality tonight?

Hint: Tactic does not work when done by a minority of posters on board.

[CalGator]

225. has this sunk yet?

Let us know!

LThnxBi

[DJ13]

2. K&R

Screw the sink.

[bigtree]

4. It's over?

I'd like that to be the Obama camp's theme. Voters really like to be taken for granted.

[DearAbby]

9. The voters

will still vote...no one is taking them for granted. Clinton just has no chance of overtaking Obama's lead, and her campaigning is damaging the party.

Just what are your intentions, do you want to win in November, as a Democrat?

[bigtree]

18. the party's fine

this is democracy. fear not.

[DearAbby]

36. When the media is openly discussing

the theory of Hillary staying in to trash Obama's chances in 08 so she can run against McCain in 2012...It is damaging the party. There is no chance Hillary can make up the numbers without seriously damaging the party...she should be shown the door, someone hand her her hat please.

[lark]

54. Yeah and the media reported that Al Gore was dumb and wooden

They lied about him constantly because he was a threat to their power base. Why would you believe them? Once Obama is the nominee, they will turn on him so fast it will make your head spin. They will run the clips of Wright "damning" America and saying the white man fostered AIDS to hurt the black man, regardless of the fact that AIDS started in SF with gay white men. Obama is a racist or he would not have voluntarily attended this crazy man's church for 20 years. That's just what we know now, guaranteed they will find or even manufacture bigger things once they know who to go after for sure. They will also run ads saying he's undemocratic and didn't even win fairly. He had to disenfranchise people from 2 large states.

[DearAbby]

56. Did you hear the entire sermon?

No?


I have nothing to say to you. :hi:

[Laurab]

68. Hillary is doing quite a good job for them.

And her supporters, too - the media doesn't need to do a thing, really, and when they start, they'll begin with all Hillary's attacks on Obama. She's the gift that keeps on giving, and giving - to the repukes.

She is desparate, has no hope, and is trying to destroy the probable dem candidate, while building up the repuke candidate. You're spewing RW talking points in your own post. HE "disenfranchised" people from 2 large states? How foolish can you get? Wake up - she's doing it right in front of everyone's eyes, yet, somehow that's okay with her supporters, even though it may cause the dems to lose the GE?

Obama is quite capable of dealing with Rev. Wright - there's a video, if you missed it. The only ones still interested seem to be the repukes and HRC supporters, who seem only too glad to keep bringing it up.

Of COURSE the RW will lie and attack, but not half as much as they would if HRC was the nominee. And, as far as I can see, Obama is more than capable of handling attacks - far better than HRC, even though she plays so dirty - in fact, she's given him a lot of practice.

Hillary is destroying the party, her husband has destroyed his reputation, and they don't CARE. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about them?

[Grinchie]

157. Actually, I heard that AIDs started when the WHO innoculated Millions

With smallpox vaccine contaminated with the AIDs virus in the 60's.

[AlbertCat]

176. started?

I think AIDS "Started" when some virus mutated....god only know how long ago... to become lethal by attacking the immune system of primates. It got spread around when humans started traveling the planet and venturing into remote areas. Kinda like how Small Pox made it to the western hemisphere back in the 16th century.

[VinnieF]

178. Well, Hillarhoid, you just made the ignore list.

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

[youngharry]

82. Hillary in 2012

If Hillary stays in to defeat Obama so she can run in 2012, Believe me there is no way she will win then. MORE THAN HALF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL NEVER ALLOW HER TO BE PRESIDENT. SHE SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT. IF THE DEMS CONTROL BOTH HOUSES AND THE REPS HAVE THE PRESIDENCY, THE COUNTRY WILL STILL BE IN LOCKDOWN, ALL BECAUSE OF HILLARY. SHE WILL NEVER ACHIEVE THE PRESIDENCY.
NEVER
NEVER
NEVER
NEVER
NEVER

[Ken Burch]

143. Tearing down the frontrunner for no reason isn't democracy, it's self-destruction.

If HRC had withdrawn on Super Tuesday night, we would be assured of beating McCain by now. It's only continued presence that keeps the old buzzard in the race.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

161. My guess is that Hillary will win dishonestly.

After the '06 elections the GOP was taught that America hates Bush and his wars. So what do they do? They run with a Bush clone as their candidate.

Corporate America will hand this election to Hillary, and if she screws up so bad that no one would swallow the lie of a Hillary win; we'll be attacked again so America will get behind the war candidate McCain. ..Either way, corproate America wins. The people who stole the '00 and the '04 elections will not give up their power so easily.

I'm hoping that America starts displaying their support for Obama. We can't let our corproate controlled media get over on us again.

[TheWraith]

19. Funny, it was over in 2004 almost the day it began.

Nobody was crying foul then. It's the way staggered primaries work. The ones at the end sometimes don't get influence. To claim some noble purpose in trying to string out a divisive battle as long as possible, in the hope of overturning the will of the majority of Democratic voters, is just slimy.

[lark]

55. Are you Ms. Manners

of the DU?

[GoneOffShore]

167. Ah, but you see, just because it's happened before to someone else

doesn't mean it should happen to the Hillsnbill. That's a whole different animal.

:sarcasm:

[LSK]

61. you mean like the voters in vast majority of states that Obama has won???

:shrug:

[gmudem]

132. Clinton is taking voters for granted.

The only way she can win is if she steals the nomination through superdelegates. I know it. She knows it. We all know it.

It's time to end this charade.

[Heathen57]

214. Hillary is the one who

has shown disdain for voters. Her comments that most of the states "don't count" and ignoring every state that isn't 'big' enough for her has alienated a lot of people. Barack's numbers reflect that he at least tries to get the non-monied, non-elite voters. Hillary could care less about us.

[DearAbby]

5. K & R

Thanks Kpete

[H2O Man]

6. Nominated.

[mathewsleep]

7. let it float.

[Blue-Jay]

10. If it's yellow, let it mellow.

[druidity33]

95. but if it's floating

that probably means it's brown...

and that, my friend, you flush DOWN.

:)










sorry, just couldn't resist

[L0oniX]

63. Hendrix: You Got Me Floating.

[babylonsister]

8. Rec'd! Thanks. nt

[jgraz]

11. Depends what the meaning of "win" is

If "win" means earning the most pledged delegates, winning the most primaries, winning the most caucuses, winning the most recorded votes and generally running a great, well-managed campaign then, no, Hillary cannot win.

On the other hand if "win" means losing the pledged delegate race, losing the most primaries, losing the most caucuses, losing the recorded vote count and generally running a craptacular, incompetent, mismanaged campaign but somehow managing to gin up a racist backlash against your opponent long after anyone with a modicum of self-respect would have dropped out then, yeah, she might be able to pull it off.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

41. love it!

[aasleka]

71. lol

[sybylla]

96. Thanks for that!

I know this "depends on what the meaning of is is" thing will come back and haunt Hillary every time she starts debating semantics with John McCain. Even if he doesn't have the balls to say it, the puke pundits will. I'm surprised Barack had the self-restraint not to use it against her when she was arguing with him over denounce and reject.

[screembloodymurder]

12. I absolutely agree.

The DU split is nothing compared to what will happen to the party if she keeps going. She will destroy the party and quite possibly our country. She's got to go and I was a Hillary fan.

[Beacool]

13. Nope, let her stay in the race until Puerto Rico says: Viva Hillary!!!!

Si se puede, si se puede!!!!!!

[jgraz]

16. Thanks for giving us a new definition for "living la vida loca".

:crazy:

[Beacool]

20. Unlike Richardson and several others,

I'm loyal to the end. Besides. I truly believe that she would be a much better president than Obama.

[jgraz]

26. Congratulations on being loyal to the end. You made it.

You've even managed to stay loyal for a few weeks past the end. Very impressive.

[Yukari Yakumo]

34. Even if that means going right off a cliff? {nt}

uguu

[DeadElephant_ORG]

40. that makes you a "dead ender"

[cameozalaznick]

53. Hey, I think Al Gore would've been a better president that Governor Bush

But them's the breaks. It's time to move along. Nothing to see here.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. Wait a minute. Why wasn't Richardson disloyal when he RAN AGAINST her?

I'd really like to hear the answer on that one.

If you want me to take a wild stab at it, it's because team Hillary needed a bunch of empty suits to run against and pretend that there was a primary contest, for a little while, before she claimed the nomination that, we were told, was inevitably hers (if for no other reason than, as Terry McAuliffe said, "IT'S HER TURN") ... as long as Bill Richardson didn't pose an actual threat to her taking what her people no doubt believed was automatically hers, he was a-okay. Maybe even veep material, although I'm fairly certain she would have picked fellow hawk and long-winded egomaniac Joe Biden.

Which is what, I suspect, cuts to the core of why so many Hillary supporters are so mad... Because, in their mind, Obama "stole" the nomination from Hillary, its rightful "owner". With all the talk of inevitability, they never fully grasped that she needed to WIN it-and she didn't.

[jlacivita]

140. The idea that Richardson endorsing who he prefers is disloyal is pretty messed up

don't we want our politicians to make decisions based on what they think is right, not what's right for people who've done favors form them in the past?

We have no way of knowing that Richardson isn't expecting favors from Obama, but its certainly not a good idea to just expect him to work based on favors is it?

[Jed Dilligan]

224. Well, it's high time we cut Puerto Rico loose,

maybe she could be the first Presidente of the new country.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

21. Damn right. Then we can raise our margeritas to the DEATH of our party and to President McCain

[jgraz]

30. Um...it's Puerto Rico. Better make that a Rum & Coke.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

38. oh all right. but I HATE rum and Coke.

[jgraz]

47. Mojito? Cuba Libre?

Hell, if Hillary gets the nom, I'll be downing straight rum.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

85. I'm there.

[Beacool]

50. If McCain wins, then so be it.............

But enough with this crap that Hillary should drop out. If your guy was soooo wonderful, he would have won the nomination by now.

:shrug:

[jgraz]

78. What is your realistic scenario for Hillary winning the nomination?

I'll give you mine for Obama:

Obama wins the pledged delegates
Obama wins the recorded vote
Obama wins the most primaries
Obama wins the most caucuses

30% of the remaining super delegates follow current S.D. polling and decide to respect the will of the voters. Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[papau]

108. Hillary's path to nomination is hard but certainly doable - at least a 40% chance IMO

Hillary's path to nomination is hard but certainly doable - at least a 40% chance IMO

You have to love the orchestrated calls from the Obama camp for Clinton to drop out, even though she still has a reasonable chance of securing the nomination.

The idea that whoever is leading in pledged delegates must get the nomination is artificial -pressure created by the Obama campaign and the media - based on the idea that this is a democratic process and a full and fair vote by all the people is what decides the nomination. But Obama has relinquished his claim to a full fair democratic process being determinative by blocking re votes in Michigan and Florida. After his Mich/FL actions, it seems absurd to say more pledged delegates reflects of the will of the people. If it seems that denying their fair represent ion changes the outcome, and their delegations are stripped/modified by fiat in Denver, this in itself can and should be a factor for the super delegates to correct. Indeed many super delegates are considering the popular vote totals that include the original Mich/FL results in the decision process for their vote.

Clinton is ahead by a 60/40 margin now in Pennsylvania. She is ahead by a 67/33 margin in West Virginia. The other upcoming states of Indiana, Kentucky and Puerto Rico are excellent for her demographically. In North Carolina she has pulled even despite a 33% AA portion of the primary vote. All of which means - if those ratios hold - and Clinton wins PA, IN, WV, KY, and PR by 60/40 margins, and breaking even or small margin losses in the rest of the states remaining, she will pull to within 75 or so delegates.

Factor in what was a projected 60/40 split in MI and FL (the reason Obama opposed a re vote) and she would win the "will of the people" elected delegate argument by 20 delegates. And indeed it would be the duty of the Super delegates to correct the delegate total with their votes if Obama's ploy of stopping the primary redos affects the elected delegate totals to the point elected delegate leadership would change if Mich/FL had been redone.

Of course the main purpose of having super delegates is electability. Clinton winning in states that Democrats must win in order to carry the general election means a close but winning result. Obama wins different states per Survey USA and indeeds also wins the general - but Obama holding up is now facing the Rev Wright videos from GOP 527's in October.

Right now she has a 35 super delegate lead, so based on the above projected results all that she would have needed post the FL/Mich redo was to convince 40 or so more of the uncommitted super delegates to vote for her. That's 40 out of about 340.

But of course the above assumes Obama has lost the majority of the non-AA vote. And for the math to work she must get that 60/40 split. And replacing FL/Mich fairly requires more super delegates. And not getting 60/40 means needing more of the Super delegates.

On the other hand, Obama must convince super delegates that the fact his primary results are heavily dependent on red state caucuses that reflect zero electoral votes in October is not a fatal flaw. Given the disproportionate impact of caucus red states on the Dem nomination, who do the super delegates think has the best chance to beat John McCain?

[jgraz]

125. I disagree with most of your reasoning, but I respect the fact that you clearly stated your case

Now we can have an actual discussion on specifics, though I think it will come down to IMHO vs IYHO.

IMHO, I don't see any of the arguments you present carrying a lot of weight with the SD's, barring some massive implosion by the Obama campaign. MI and FL are off the table and I just can't see seasoned politicians buying what seems to be a bogus argument about red state vs blue state wins.

But the crusher is the electability question. Most of the Dems are well aware of Hillary's high negatives and the fact that she will drive Rethug turnout. There are many superd's who are up for re-election in the fall and I can't see them choosing Clinton's negatives over Obama's coattails. Maybe a few will, but even in the best-case scenario (from your POV) you're still going to need 65-70% of the supers to break your way.

I can see some of the supers falling for Clinton's arguments, but not 70% -- especially when it involves taking the nomination away from the first viable AA candidate in the party's history.

[VinnieF]

180. Well, you just made the ignore list too.

Wow, you Hillarhoids certainly came out in droves on this thread, didn't you?

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

83. McCain? So be it ? Welcome to World War Three - starting in "bomb bomb Iran". Enjoy.

[cameozalaznick]

111. Why hasn't Hillary won by now

After all, she had a commanding lead for about 2 years, a huge pile of money, name recognition out the wazoo and a media that was definitely "in the tank" for her (see Brian Williams Nov 2007 SNL sketch) until Obama came along.

So why hasn't she won this thing already? If she was sooooo wonderful, I think she should have put it to bed long ago. Admit it, Obama has pulled off a stunning upset so far.

[Laurab]

139. That's what I wanted to ask the poster -- thanks!

Obama, on the other hand, had little name recognition, built his organization from scratch, was certainly not a media "darling", and has pulled off his "stunning upset" despite all that. That is a lot to overcome, yet he did it.

The "wonderful" Hillary is apparently not "soooo wonderful" after all, and her campaign has made her look even less "wonderful". In fact, it's shown what I believe are her true colors, and they aren't pretty. She's my Senator, I admired her, but thought she was an average senator, I loved Bill at one time, and now, I can't stand either of them.

It's unfortunate because if Hillary were to win the nomination, I could no longer vote for her, and I know that I'm far from alone. The math tells me she would have to lie and cheat her way to the nomination, and of course she'll try, but her chances of winning the GE are forever ruined IMO.

Trying to ruin her dem opponent, while praising the repug nominee just doesn't sit right with a lot of people...

[Ken Burch]

144. "If McCain wins, SO BE IT...??????"

Gee, and I thought you were a Democrat.

:wtf:

News flash: Our party will die if we don't win this year, genius. We won't be able to recover.

[NOLALady]

186. I think we will lose more than our party

if we don't win.

I don't think our country can make it with another nutcase in office who thinks the Constitution is a GD piece of paper.

[AlbertCat]

185. But he has, Blanche....he has!

If Clinton were so wonderful, she would've won by now. Or does that logic only apply to anyone but Clinton?

Only a blinded desperate Clinton supporter who thinks it's OK for "100 more years in Iraq" McCain to win if not Clinton would not realize she's already lost...fair and square.

If she had any real backbone, she'd drop out and give Obama her blessing, so they can stop fighting each other and start fighting McCain, AND more importantly, so the Super delegates do not decide... which smacks of privilege and is undemocratic.

This dropping out would make Clinton actually look good and be good for the party and the country. She can't wield power from a lesser position than President? Can't she work with a president? Does she have to be top dog?

[VinnieF]

179. You Hillarhoids are fucking pathetic.

Welcome to ignore, Hillarite.

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

[Bake]

15. Sigh. The daily "Hillary lost, get over it, let's move on" post.

And my daily response: Did Obama somehow get to 2025 and I missed it? Neither candidate wins without the supers. NEITHER ONE. Get over THAT.

I've got news for you. Hillary wins, the party is split. Obama wins, the party is split. That's the dirty little secret that Obama supporters refuse to acknowledge. Their guy splits the party too. You think all those blue-collar white voters, and the Latino voters who supported Hillary, are going to suddenly jump up and drink the Kool-Aid? I don't.

Bake

[jgraz]

22. Sadly, it's still necessary

I'll guarantee you, even after Obama has 2024 there will still be Clintonites on this board screaming "IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL THE DELEGATES VOTE!!!"

I absolutely guarantee it.

[Bake]

31. And they might be right.

The magic number is 2025. Anything less isn't a nominee.

Bake

[jgraz]

35. Some of us understand how this process works and know that a Hillary nomination will not happen

Furthermore, Hillary knows this. Her continuing campaign is simply an attempt to keep the 2012 Democratic ticket open.

[Bake]

43. Oh, I know WELL how the process works

Nobody gets the nom without 2025. Your guy isn't there yet. Neither is HRC. Nobody gets there without the supers.

Bake

[jgraz]

45. You can keep saying that, but it's a very narrow view of what's really happening

It's like watching a football game that's 35-0 with 1 minute to play and saying the game isn't *really* over yet. While that's literally true, it's nowhere near correct if you understand the slightest thing about football.

The same applies to this nomination. If anyone thinks that 70% of the remaining superdelegates are going to look at the first viable AA candidate in the party's history -- someone who has won the most delegates, the most states, the most primaries, the most caucuses and the most recorded votes -- and decide instead to give the nomination to the nice white lady, that person does not understand how the process works.

[AlbertCat]

191. Nobody gets there without the supers.

Not if Hillary does the right thing and hands it to Obama.

[PoliticalAmazon]

81. As a doctor said about his ex-wife, "Like a bad case of genital warts, she never really goes away"

[Divine Discontent]

100. painful, yet true... some won't think it possible Obama is the nominee

well - they better start thinking it - cuz it's a done deal - there's no way, without outrightly ignoring the voters, that she's the nominee.

[Beacool]

51. They are sooooo tiresome!!!

The constant mantra of "Hillary should drop out" has become a bore. The more they insist on it, the more the rest of us dig our heels and urge her to stay until the bitter end. If the party can't handle it, then too bad. Considering the crappy way they have treated her, they deserve whatever happens in Nov.

[Bake]

57. I think they must be afraid, because they keep calling for Hill to quit.

They want to end the game before the final buzzer sounds. And they HAVE to get the last word in.

Bake

[jgraz]

79. What is your realistic scenario for Hillary winning the nomination?

I'll give you mine for Obama:

Obama wins the pledged delegates
Obama wins the recorded vote
Obama wins the most primaries
Obama wins the most caucuses

30% of the remaining super delegates follow current S.D. polling and decide to respect the will of the voters. Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[aasleka]

72. How exactl has Hillary been treated crappy?

[guyanakoolaid]

147. Ah, that's the spirit that will unite us all...

...not. It's kind of funny that you don't realize that posts with this same win-at-all-costs attitude the Clinton campaign has showed do nothing to elevate your candidate in reader's minds. Neither does fake bitching about how unfairly the media has treated her, when in fact everyone knows how the MSM rolled out the red carpet for her before the primaries even began. This is the kind of politics we're trying to get away from, because in the end we'll end up like the Republicans, where nobody believes a single word coming out of your mouth.

Fight in Pennsylvania, do whatever you think you need to do, but do it with pride - let's try to put some ethics back in our party and in our debates and campaigns, and while the rest of us are trying to build a reputation for honesty, please don't outright misstate facts..

[sellitman]

162. So what you are saying is you prefer McCain to Obama.

Where have we heard this before?

I wonder?

[Ken Burch]

145. If you're second paragraph is accurate, that's NOT an arguement for HRC staying in

(Since it's an admission that she's unelectable)it's an argument for drafting a new candidate for the nomination.

Are you SURE you wanna go there?

[Rydz777]

17. Obama has never gotten more than 50 % in the Gallup poll and

Hillary has never gotten more than 49 %. It's a virtual tie. It's not over, and a lot could happen between now and the convention. In the meantime, I hope we stop dumping on either candidate.

[gcomeau]

44. Gallup polling doesn't determine the nominee.

The only thing pointing out that they're a virtual tie in that polling does is provide one more reason that the super delegates will not reverse the outcome of the pledged delegate race.

[hell-bent]

23. Ha,ha,ha,....

Have another sip of that special Kool-Aid,eh. He(Obama) will be smoked in Pennsylvania, an important state for any Dem candidate to win the election.

[VinnieF]

181. Another Hillarhoid for the ignore list.

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

[Voice for Peace]

24. K&R thanks! nt

[DeadElephant_ORG]

25. she'll give up the nomination when we pry her cold dead fingers off of it.

[rniel]

27. Thanks for the post

This post is going to give me a good 20 or so more people to add to my ignore list I'm sure.

[f the letter]

80. That's a great signature line! n/t

[AX10]

28. Kos and Marshall are pro-Obama hacks.

[Tatiana]

39. Josh Marshall is very pro-Clinton. And pro-reality, apparently. n/t

[LWolf]

29. I'll hold on until my primary, thanks.

Not that I want her to win. I don't.

Of course, I don't want Obama to win, either.

The best thing for the party, at this point, is a brokered convention and a non-obama/hillary nominee.

In my opinion, of course. As long as there's hope for that outcome, there's a little hope for the party, and for November. I'd like to hang on to that hope at least long enough to cast a primary vote.

[lark]

59. Hey, I know what'll happen

Neither will be able to win, and after about the 10th ballot, they'll nominate Edwards and everyone will coalesce around the person most likely to be the real change agent. He won't just talk change and act the same ole way, he'll embody it in his policies that he will absolutely fight to implement.
My current version of the wet dream.

[LWolf]

66. Well, that dream

is certainly "wetter" than the dream that nominates either Clinton or Obama, lol.

That one's a nightmare.

[aasleka]

73. hmmm, what are you citing as evidence?

[ericblair]

131. LWolf. Amen, brother (or sister)

I've been waiting 35 years to vote for a real progressive for president. Instead, every 4 years the machine vomits up some empty shirt/party hack. No thanks.

[LWolf]

175. Sister.

:hi:

[rosesaylavee]

37. K & R

[SoonerPride]

42. That's what I said a month ago

it

is

over

[Cha]

46. Yeah, do the SuperDees want to be a part of

a Dem Admin or sweat under a mccain takeover?

[D23MIURG23]

48. More reality for the denial squad.

:kick:

[MoonRiver]

49. Fuck that spin.

BO hasn't gotten to the magic delegate number. What's his problem? Can't throw Hillary under the bus? BAD CANDIDATE. BO should drop out.

[jgraz]

75. What is your realistic scenario for Hillary winning the nomination?

I'll give you mine for Obama:

Obama wins the pledged delegates
Obama wins the recorded vote
Obama wins the most primaries
Obama wins the most caucuses

30% of the remaining super delegates follow current S.D. polling and decide to respect the will of the voters. Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[Megahurtz]

207. ROFL.

:rofl: Drop out while he's winning! Right. :rofl:

[Deep13]

52. So, HC can't win the primary and O. can't win in November.

The system is not about rules and procedures, it is about winning in November. Right now we have an okay candidate (electability-wise) against someone who is a dead-bang loser. Predicted most memorable campaign ad in October: Barack Hussein Obama/God Damn America ad.

I don't see why the convention cannot vote to suspend the rules and allow FL delegates onto the floor. The purpose of superdelegates is to avoid a disaster that the amateur members of the convention might not see.

[aasleka]

74. lol so now the democratic election is spoiled by amatuers voting and caucasing?

[Deep13]

206. It will be ruined by the alienation of 2 major states, lack of nat. security creds and ...

...ties to Wright. Plus the fact that most of his states will go red in the fall unless you really expect that young, white men are going to choose O over McC.

[aasleka]

220. Yeah I do, I think once people hear Obama they know what they want.

Once they see him stand next to Mcain on a stage and hear the batshit crazy old man tell everyone to get off his lawn they will know who they don't want.

Hillary couldn't even run a campaign, she blew a huge financial lead, a huge name recognition, one of the most popular living Presidents of our time was campaigning and sleeping with her and she had the party leadership locked down.

How's she going to deal with everything else when she can't even clinch the race she owned a year ago.

Obama is extremely electable, he is the best educated person, the most even keeled, has the best judgement and if Pat Robertson and Falwell got away with the ridiculous lies all these years then Wright's hard to swallow truths shouldn't be too hard on us. It is time we heard what we needed too, not what we wanted too.

Fairytale time is over, it's time to roll up our sleeves.

Yes We Can!

[Ken Burch]

146. There's no reason to think a forced HRC nomination would leave us in any better shape in the fall.

She couldn't be popular if she was nominated the way you suggest. No one could actually cheer for her being imposed like that. At least no one who's sane. It would be too much like Humphrey in '68, or what the Anybody But McGovern tried to do in '72, which would've led to another nominee who would have to have lost just as badly as McGovern(Scoop Jackson would've lost 49 states as an imposed nominee, as would Humphrey if imposed again.)

[Deep13]

208. Forced? Isn't that what a convention is for? Can we win without FL and MI?

We may get to a point where polls show considerable buyer's remorse from the early voting states over the candidate they chose. This Wright thing is not going away.

Anyway, Bush didn't lose any popular legitimacy over stealing the '00 election.

[Ken Burch]

226. We don't have to seat the unfairly chosen delegations to carry those states

And it goes without saying that if HRC was nominated by their votes, her nomination couldn't be legitimate and couldn't lead to victory in the fall.

It would be enough to seat those delegations and require them to be uncommitted on the first ballot.

And as for "buyer's remorse", you can't assume that only Obama would be at risk of that.

[Scurrilous]

58. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Time for change]

60. I agree

This needs to end now.

Although Hillary did make an excellent speech today about the housing crisis.

[syberlion]

94. Hillary's Speech...

Which included RW talking points about tort reform, protecting the lenders from law suits, where was the protection for the mythical "little guy" when deregulation took place? More protectionism for the companies grinding the average individual into the ground and less consideration for the individual's rights in the courts. This is the new vision for America?

I was for neither of these two when the process started and I am still holding a cynical view of the entire process. In the heat of the battle, in a domestic squabble, things are said which we wish we never said to those we say we love. If we truly loved them in the first place, we would never say those things.

The longer I watch what is going on, the more I am convinced there is no love for the democratic party coming from Hillary. There is no love for the little people coming from Hillary's campaign. Just like in any dysfunctional family, after all the yelling, after all the hitting, there are the reprisals. Being a survivor of a dysfunctional family, I recognize the signs, I know about the shock of words, the belittling, the shame, the fear and the heartache. I also know about the after-math. The soothing words, the "I'm Sorry I didn't mean it..." that comes after the storm, the heat of the battle.

Just like those who truly love their abusive family member and will stay with them through the end. Just like those sticking to the end, bleeding, bloodied and bewitched, they remain steadfast and strongly committed. No matter what the ER doctor tells them about their broken bones, or deep bruises, they stand firm to the end.

So, having survived this type of dysfunctional situation, I can only mourn for what we are losing, I can only feel the familiar emotional pain of the yelling and screaming that solved nothing and only further damaged those too young to understand what dysfunctional relationships were back then.

Only, I am not that young child anymore. It's taken a long time for me to heal from what I went through. America doesn't have the luxury to go through the healing process. America is already bloodied, bruised and fearful. As a nation, we've gone from, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself" to "Good morning. Somewhere in the world terrorist are planing to attack America."

Fear is the common enemy that is dividing this nation. Fear is the darkness we face in our minds and in our hearts. Fear is what is keeping us from reaching out to each other due to our cultural differences. Fear is keeping us from seeing our commonalities. Fear is something we can conquer one person at a time.

Yeah, there's hope. I have hope we can remain united. I have hope we will not divide our house and be conquered. I have hope we can see beyond today and understand the importance of gaining a stronger hold in the Senate, the House and most importantly, the Supreme Court. I hope we look beyond today and see the import of what will happen should we allow Fear to reign.

When you feel that anger boil up and you begin to pour out that anger into a post or a reply, just remember we are all on the same side. There is a common goal here. Anger comes from fear, fear of acceptance, fear of the unknown, fear of non-validation and many other fears. Remember, fear is the true treason. Through fear, we've lost many constitutional rights. Through fear, we are losing the ability to stay united to the common purpose, to win in the GE.

Fearlessly signed,

syberlion

edited for the word reply.

[Time for change]

104. I guess you heard a different part of it than I did

I listened to a long portion of it driving home from work today. It was all about protecting the poor and the middle class. She rhetorically asked why our government can bail out large corporations when it won't do the same for the rest of us. I heard no right wing talking points of the sort you mention here, or any other right wing talking points. But I may have missed that.

Anyhow, I agree that she should get out of the race, and she certainly overstepped the bounds of fair play when she suggested that McCain would be a more experienced Commander-in-Chief than Obama.

[Politicalboi]

120. Maybe if she hadn't voted for the WAR

We would have more money here at home. Maybe if she didn't take money from the Pharma's we would have health coverage. Maybe if she didn't support NAFTA we would have jobs. Hillary watch out for the "Sniper Fire" What a bunch of shit she is.

[Binka]

107. Thank You For Those Heart Felt & Poignant Words

I understand what you are saying and I hope to hear more from you. :hug:

[trevjr]

137. Really a good reply

I never thought of it in a dysfunctional family way, it makes alot of sense, except that Hillary is not saying she is sorry. Also, she is like the abusive spouse that goes too far, she has gone too far and is not apologizing. Waiting for that slim hope that something will happen.

People are using the math in the wrong way, this is a delegate game. You can only win by delegates, it doesn't matter which states, or popular vote. Sure the supers will use criteria for picking their choice, but Hillary's actions now I am sure are turning people off. I rarely hear about an Obama supporter saying that Obama has gone too far and they are switching to Hillary, it is almost always the other way around. People miss the point that Obama has been responding to attacks for a long time, only recently has he gone on the attack. It is not close, it is not almost even, Hillary has to win the rest of the states by 64% now. Everytime she does not meet that it goes up, 66% with 9 left, 68% with 8 left, it is math, statistics you cannot ignore it.

Football game, ok 5 minutes left down by 15, Obama has the ball, you need an interception return for a touchdown and a 2 point conversion, then an offside kick another touchdown with a 2 point conversion to win. Yes it can be done, but the chances are so small. In addition, a true Democrat would look at the health of the party rather than personal ambition or gain. Hillary admitted to the kitchen sink strategy.

All the supers have to do is look at the negatives, 49% will not vote for Hillary 32% will not vote for Obama, that says it all.

[NM Independent]

148. F&A

[chocome]

65. Obama and Clinton are separated by less than 1 % of the 27 millon+ votes cast

The race is virtually tied; the "will of the people" is split. By virtually every measure, Hillary and Sen. Obama are neck and neck -- separated by less than 130 of the more than 3,100 delegates committed thus far and less than 1% of the 27 million+ votes cast, including Florida and Michigan. Less than 1%.

and you want her to quit...so democratic of you..

[jgraz]

77. What is your realistic scenario for Hillary winning the nomination?

I'll give you mine for Obama:

Obama wins the pledged delegates
Obama wins the recorded vote
Obama wins the most primaries
Obama wins the most caucuses

30% of the remaining super delegates follow current S.D. polling and decide to respect the will of the voters. Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[AZ Criminal JD]

87. Clinton can win

According to most surveys she has about 1500 delegates (pledged plus super). She can get about 200 out of the 350 remaining in the primaries. That gives her about 1700. There are about 340 supers who haven't committed. If she got almost all of those she would be over the 2024 figure. So that is the math.

That does not count Michigan or Florida delegates and whatever happens or doesn't happen with them. It also doesn't count Obama supers who get shaky after Pennsylvania and could be convinced to shift to Clinton.

[jgraz]

118. That is not a reasonable scenario

We all can add. What we can't do is come up with a story for how she actually gets 70% of the remaining supers (assuming a best-case outcome for her in the remaining contests).

[Ken Burch]

142. No Obama supers are going to shift.

They know they'd face strong(and successful) progressive primary challenges next time if they imposed the unpopular conservative establishment candidate instead of the people's choice.

And in the end, there's simply nothing so inherently superior about HRC that makes her worth what her campaign is doing to all of us.

[Duncan]

88. including florida and michigan!?

Are you not embarrassed to say that?

[Politicalboi]

122. Keepin it real

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=1eb65t

[NM Independent]

150. Oh, for the everlasting love of God!!!!

MI. and FL. Do Not Count AS IS!

If there is a redo then fine, throw that in there, but you're fudging numbers, so please just cut it out. If you can make a succinct argument without a "misstatement" - ahem, lie - then please don't.

Obama isn't defranchising ANYBODY. He said he was going to follow the decisions of the DNC, and the DNC hasn't had a chance to let negotiations pan out. Hillary is trying to rush the decision on everybody, and when it doesn't get made her way immediately she blames it on Obama - like she blames everything that happens directly on him, as if he's micromanaging thousands of people campaigning for him? Jeeeeesus, help me and my blood pressure. If MI. & FL. have elections it will probably be in June, so there isn't an immediate hurry at this point. All the while Hillary has her DINO buddies in FL calling for "mutually assured destruction" with the DNC, so Howard has some problems to deal with to try to make everybody happy.

Calm down. I'm talking to both of us...

[VinnieF]

182. Well, you've now been ignored, Hillarhoid.

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

[hell-bent]

210. What a twit you are!

I guess you only want to play with just the Obamanuts,right? Well, sip some more of the special potion, adjust the tinfoil hat for improved reception, and join in on singing: "Kumbaya" with your crazed friends,eh. :rofl:

[MelissaB]

67. At this point, I agree.

[Coexist]

70. amen.

[dailykoff]

76. The Clinton assassination strategy is completely repulsive.

I'm talking about character assassination, which she's been energetically throwing herself into for \months (I've NEVER seen her get that excited about a policy), but obviously she's also hanging around just in case you know what, at which point she'll be "ready" to make solemn speeches and humbly assume the mantel etc. etc. It's sickening and barbaric.

I really, really can't wait for this ridiculous charade to end. :mad:

[thewiseguy]

84. Amen to that!

[BumRushDaShow]

86. K&R

:kick:

[kid a]

133. special k

[Usrename]

89. Somebody stick a fork in her.

She's done!

[Utopian Leftist]

91. And so far, our party elders don't seem to care.

I agree. It's time for Al Gore and Jimmy Carter to get off the fence. These are both Nobel Peace Prize winners! And right now they need to put Hillary out to pasture so they can bring peace to the party.

[OwnedByFerrets]

92. K and R

[fascisthunter]

97. nominated (nt)

[apocalypsehow]

98. *Kickety-kick*

:kick:

[Auntie Bush]

99. Funny how wrong I've been thinking all these years.

I always thought we had a primary and it was over when there was one person remaining. I had no idea that random, disgruntled, impatient, ordinary people could just call an end to the primary and declare it over when their candidate was ahead. :crazy:

Good thing I came to DU to get corrected and learn something about Democracy.

[harun]

199. Looks to me like you haven't learnt squat (n/t)

[Auntie Bush]

204. I take that back. I learned a lot.

I learned that you're an asshole...not to worry...you have plenty of company. People of the same type tend to flock together and drink from
the same glass of Koolaid. Then they get infected with that nasty virus called Obamitis and no antibiotic can cure it.

[Divine Discontent]

102. K&R85

[William769]

103. It's over. Obama can't win. Let's move on.

Love your take on Democracy! :eyes:

[VinnieF]

183. Hooray! Another Hillarhoid to ignore!

:hi:

[William769]

215. I aim to please.

You aim to please. :)

[Iwillnevergiveup]

105. Present

K&R

[AZSlacker]

106. Lurker here.. aren't you supposed to be boycotting?

We can't miss you if you don't leave

[William769]

110. Lurker for 2 weeks?

Or a reincarnation? :rofl:

[ClayZ]

109. K and R

[NoBushSpokenHere]

112. Rec'd ty for the OP nt

[Politicalboi]

115. Yes we want Barack

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=f6lh4

Twisted Sister

[Wetzelbill]

116. She's really been out of it since he racked up 11 wins in a row

She had to be absolutely perfect since then, and they are just too close in too many states and among superdelegates for her to ever make up that ground she lost during that time. I like HRC, but she should have stepped out instead of trying to mount a near impossible comeback. She's been hurting the party's nominee for a big longshot, and to no purpose.

[sallyseven]

188. He won red states

They will NOT VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT IN NOVEMBER GET IT?

[Wetzelbill]

218. that's a myth

He's won red, blue and purple states. But those states that she won, like New York and California would all go his way too. She won Arizona, hell she'd never get that in a GE. It works both ways. Basically, almost every state she won, he would win in a GE, and he has a shot in other states that would cut their arms off before ever voting for her. You give Obama 6-7 months contrasting himself against McCain and things get ugly for McCain in a hurry. You give HRC and McCain, the BFF, 6-7 months together on the trail and they start looking like the same thing. That's bad for her. She'll never outRepublican a Republican. She's based everything on strength and experience, and against McCain that won't work at all.


But the bottom line here is, and that's what I addressed, I never mentioned anything about which states anybody won in my reply, he routed her 11 primaries in a row. Your arguments over which states he won and electibility, that's over and done with, he beat her fair and square and put her in a position where she really can't win. I'm not even an Obama voter, I'm just stating the facts. He kicked her ass for a month so bad that she can't come back and beat him. That's that.

[DesEtoiles]

117. kick

[Jackpine Radical]

119. Like, if I post something here, does that

automatically :kick: the thread?

And then what happens if I go back and click on that little Recommend button?

[Warren DeMontague]

121. AFAIC, there isn't a single member of DU whose threads carry more weight than kpete's.

K&R.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

124. she wants McCain in now, she's looking at 2012

cause she would be way too old after two terms of Obama.

[me b zola]

126. ...

:kick:

[bridgit]

128. pre-mature

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

129. sink and recommend

[ekwhite]

136. I already recommended

How do I sink it now? :evilgrin:

[sonias]

135. k&r

For sanity. Let's move on and start winning the election against John "W" McCain.

:kick:


Sonia

[greyghost]

138. She can't get the numbers and she doesn't have the political

capital. Obama won, accept it and move on.

[happygoluckytoyou]

141. OOPSIE...DID I SAY "SNIPER FIRE", I MEANT "MY CAMPAIGNS IN FREEFALL"

[Kurovski]

149. Kick. (nt)

[Perry Logan]

152. If Hillary really can't win, why do we need 10,000 posts saying over and over that she can't win?

Methinks they do protest too much.

[crankychatter]

153. The UNDEAD roam DU at night

beee afwaid...

beee vewwwy afwaid....

WING WING

"HUWWO?"

[ThatBozGuy]

159. What are you hunting?

RABIDS

[Ganja Ninja]

155. Her only hope is for Obama to get caught with an intern. n/t

[rox63]

163. You mean the old "dead girl or live boy" strategy?

Yeah, just keep waiting for that one. :eyes:

[Fyddlestyx]

158. Kick!

Well said! :toast:

[RB TexLa]

160. Gotta love how the Obama people think voters in states with scheduled primaries don't

deserve a choice.

[AllexxisF1]

165. Yea...

Yea because no other races have ever been decided before all the primaries have been done ...give me a break.


SHE LOST.

GET OVER IT.

[JDwho]

198. Obviously, it's not yet over

If it were officially over, we would have a nominee. This is the process, folks. Appreciate it, despite all of it's faults..(voting machine fraud, etc). I don't think the Democratic Party is in ruins because of Hillary. I only think we are divided right now. We may dishonor our party and bring it to ruin if we continue with hate talk against either candidate. When we finally have a nominee, we must unite behind him or her. Whomever the nominee. If you're an a Obama supporter, there is no reason to attack a fellow Democrat just because you're enthusiastic/dramatic in your support. There are other states that have yet to vote. Their vote counts just as much as mine or yours. By the way, I voted for Edwards in the primary, so at the moment I'm not sure how I feel about either candidate. But, you can bet that every time I begin to lean toward Obama, I log on to DU and read the words of hate from his supporters/followers. A candidate's supporters and their comments reflect directly on the candidate. I know this because I lean back into my uncomfortable, undecided position after reading their posts. Let us focus on the positive policies that both are putting forth, although similar. Let us not be "the deciders" (like you-know-who), and decide that it's over before it is in actuality.

[Norrin Radd]

168. kr

[Froward69]

170. Hillary, Like I told the GOP just a minute ago

You cannot have the names and phone numbers of the delegates...

[Lerkfish]

171. interesting article

:kick:

[0007]

172. bttft and recommend with many kudos for a great post.

[NOLALady]

173. .

:kick: :)

[sallyseven]

174. Well I am a fan of the civil war

so I think Hillary should stay in the race. I am a rational person and feel that she would be the better person for the job. I am not caught up with the evangelistic sounds from Obama's mouth. I want a president not a motivational speaker. Stop the nonsense. This is serious stuff being president with all the problems we have to fix. I want someone who can handle them. Obama can not. The hysteria that is the Obama campaign leaves me scared. Take a hard look folks.

[VinnieF]

184. So, you're just another poor, deluded Hillarhoid.

YOUR QUEEN LOST. GET OVER IT.

P.S. You're on ignore. It's the best way to get relief from you aching Hillarhoids.

[NorthCarolina]

177. Will Hillary have a chance in 2012 considering

she'll likely be responsible for a McCain win in 2008? I tend to think not....although much of America is proving exactly how mentally compromised they truly are so who knows...anything is possible when media "spin" becomes "fair and balanced news" to a feeble minded electorate.

[Major Hogwash]

187. She has a better chance of hitting a hole-in-one than becoming the nominee now.

Bayh's argument was the stupidest, lamest, most of full of shit argument I have ever heard about this campaign.

[knixphan]

189. let's move on with a real Democrat

[snappyturtle]

190. K&R

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Seabiscuit]

193. kpete - haven't you told us in the past you're just interested in posting news stories?

This isn't news.

It's the stupidest of mean-spirited propaganda.

What happened to you?

[knixphan]

200. The system is based on pledged delegates and super-delegates. Period.

[parkeradison]

201. Regarding "it's over"

As they say, it isn't over until "the fat lady sings". And, Hillary hasn't sung yet. In a way, I hope that she doesn't. Can you imagine that voice? Maybe we can have Bill or Carville sing for her.

[knixphan]

202. Every time the Clinton campaign piles on, they are now actually aiding and abetting McCain.

[themaguffin]

203. Yeah it's time for Hillary to follow Huckabee

[Megahurtz]

205. When WILL she move on?

I don't know what she's waiting for. I don't trust her.

[Kurovski]

212. Kick. (nt)

[madrchsod]

213. let`s see...

hillary won`t quit and the msm is making millions off of this prolonged fight in the democratic party.

the walking corpse of the republican party gets a huge pass on anything he says because they really don`t want to feature him to soon.

yup, it`s working really well for the democratic party..opps i mean for the republican party.

[ooglymoogly]

216. It is clear Hill prefers McCain to Obama because he will

maintain the status quo which she has continually voted for. Hill, Lie-berman and McCain, three pugs in a tub.

[7horses]

217. Are you aware...

that if no one gets the nomination after several votes at the Convention the delegates can then vote for whomever they want to vote. Even someone who didn't run in the primary. So Hillary Clinton should not be counted out, nor John Edwards, nor even Al Gore. This has happened at times in the past. Woodrow Wilson, comes to mind. Never say never. Then party needs to pick the person who has the best chance of winning. The Democratic voters need to support the nominee, whomever that is, and however he or she is chosen. Come on be a real Democrat!

[Divine Discontent]

219. error - you've already recommended this thread EOM

[Catherina]

221. Ok. I already rec'd but now I'm kicking n/t

[IsItJustMe]

222. She is with out a doubt, as low as you can go.

[Khaotic]

227. K&R

K and R!

:kick: