Fellow Obama Supporters: What is so difficult about the concept of respecting the opposition?

[Mike03]

This post is primarily directed at my fellow Obama supporters. Do you believe for one moment that Obama would ever approve of some of the venomous, almost psychopathically obsessed, comments that some of us are making against the Clintons? We are beginning to sound like the very lunatics we used to ridicule when Bill Clinton was our president!

After Gore, Biden and Edwards were out, I became an Obama supporter. He's, IMHO, undefeatable. I've never had the good fortune to see a politician like him in my lifetime. Nevertheless, I say that it was not Obama who started this embarrassing frenzy of Clinton-hating, but his supporters, who are not collectively putting their best foot forward.

I respect both Obama and Clinton, and would be proud to have either as POTUS. But I definitely prefer Obama. That doesn't mean I have to lose my common sense and start ranting like an insane person against Hilary Clinton. That makes us look stupid, ignorant and desperate, rather than confident, proud and rational.

But to be perfectly blunt, there are some Obama supporters who are unbelievable assholes. They are arrogant, hypersensitive, defensive, cocky and narcissistic. And they started this dumb-ass, silly "war" between Obama and Clinton supporters. Now both sides are going at it, but my side, the Obama side, started this, in my view, by being so smug and engaging in a shameless round of revisionist history about not only Hilary Clinton but the entire Clinton/Gore administration.

It's really shameful.

I know this is not ALL Obama supporters, but the ones who are degrading themselves by engaging in this low-road smearing should at least have to reconsider whether or not their behavior is a proper reflection of what Obama stands for.

The ONLY negative for Obama, IMHO, are the minority of his rabid supporters who fail to understand that you don't have to despise the opposition to champion our candidate. Obama would be most surely be disgusted by the way some of us are "defending" him.

He's a class act. Some of his supporters are exceedingly poor representatives of the very man we claim to respect.

[DJ13]

1. Respect is never automatic, it needs to be earned

Has the opposition earned it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. No

People who have come here for years, contributed to the site, and worked for Democratic causes their entire lives deserve to be shit on.


:sarcasm:

[DJ13]

13. Were talking candidates, not the entire party

People within the party are within their rights to disagree with the positions of a candidate, and by extension that candidate's more vocal supporters.

I can be on the wrong side, so can you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. There Is Nothing Wrong With Disagreement But That The Vitriol On This Board Goes Way Beyond That

And yeah, I'm sure I'm wrong on a lot of things but I try not to be gratuitously mean... To me that's a lot worse than being wrong...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. There Is Nothing Wrong With Disagreement But The Vitriol On This Board Goes Way Beyond That

And yeah, I'm sure I'm wrong on a lot of things but I try not to be gratuitously mean... To me that's a lot worse than being wrong...

[dchill]

18. Only the ones who post venomous, racist lies...

and scream, "Shit on me!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Hope You're Not Accusing Me Of Spreading Venemous, Racist Lies

~

[dchill]

41. No - not as long as you're not accusing me...

of shitting on you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Not If You Haven't , Of Course

~

[JoFerret]

43. Wrong

Why assume ill-will?
What kind of view of people is that.
The OP makes a great statement and you have to drizzle on it. Why?

[sniffa]

2. It's the Brownshirt in us

[rzemanfl]

5. Exactly what I was going to say. Why should I respect some

goddamn troll who has 63 posts?

[Cha]

10. I say it's the part in us that

doesn't take shit from hilary's avengers.

[jillan]

3. I hope you get a Duzy award for this, Mike.

:toast:

Thanks!

[DearAbby]

6. She lost my respect

when she personally insulted me, because of my support of Obama. The celestial choirs bullshit.
Then she added to it, by here "As far as I know" comment, and then added more to it with her...I have a lifetime of experience, McCain has a lifetime of experience, Obama, like Mr Bean, just fell out of the sky that day, and gave a speech in 2003. She endorsed a GOP candidate over one in her own party.

She tossed whatever respect I had for her right into the gutter. respect is earned...with the above, what has she earned?

[ekwhite]

17. Forgive and forget Abby

Hillary Clinton cannot win the nomination. It is time for us to come together and work against McCain. The delegate count and the money will eventually force her out.

[DearAbby]

25. Yes

It is past time to end this and begin the healing process, but so long as she remains in her scorched earth mode, that becomes more and more difficult.

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. His advisor called her a "monster"

It is purposeful. Dehumanize so you can hate and sleep at night.

Look at the responses here: "respect has to be earned." They actually believe the ugly crap they created and repeat as if true. And they have to believe it, otherwise what would they be? Ugly, ill informed radically ignorant people who spew hatred on a public forum.

[DearAbby]

9. *

:nopity:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Does Patronizing Strangers On A Bulletin Board Empower You?

~

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. no more than it does you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. You Just Shot A Friend

I was responding to Abby...

[Evergreen Emerald]

Sorry

I am recently out of surgery, and on pain meds. I find that I am laughing lots more on this board than when off the pain medication!
I also post in the wrong spots alot.

[DearAbby]

19. Stereo

:nopity: :nopity:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. You Like Images, Abby

Here's one for ya, sweetheart:

[musicblind]

26. No! No! Don't stoop to her level.

Just let them be, and they'll go away. I hope.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Thank You

But if you diss me I'm going to diss you back...

On the net and in "real life"...

[dchill]

46. Dipping into your handy supply of...

vitriol and shit, I see. See, and I was going to "take you at your word..."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I Asked The Poster Why She Patronized Another Poster And Then She Patronized Me

As I told the other gentleman I don't let people disrespect without me responding on the net and in real life...

[dchill]

59. I hear you - me, too.

:)

[cooolandrew]

8. I strongly disagree we started it and if we are coming back we are at least using facts. I mostly.

am focusing on the positive now as I think Obama is through the worst of it now. I would be a huge misjustice if no-one defended him really though.

[Drachasor]

11. I agree, we should all take the high road

It is best to have class, even if your opponent doesn't.

We can disagree by presenting facts and logic. We don't need to call names or make other incendiary remarks.

[ekwhite]

12. K&R

With that being said, it IS difficult sometimes to respect people on the other side who engage in ad hominem attacks on Obama or his supporters. I will admit to having lost it a few times and responded in kind. I will pledge to try to do better, but I won't promise to be perfect. Sometimes the snark has to come out.

[gateley]

14. Again,

EXCELLENT, Mike! :hug:

[Adelante]

24. The respectable opposition is respected

Nasty sonsabitches, no.

[Milo_Bloom]

28. What if you support Obama b/c you find the opposition vile?

And Obama represents the only chance to not have a war monger in the white house?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. It happens, unfortunately. Some people turn politics into their own ego trip

and that's where the assholery gets started. When people allow themselves to become so invested in their choice of a candidate that they take any criticism of that candidate as a mortal insult to *them*, they tend to regress to an irrational state and start flinging poo.

By way of example: I was an enthusiastic supporter of Wes Clark during the 2004 primary season. His campaign set up a blog/message board site, and that was a sort of DU just for Clark supporters. As time went on, unfortunately, it also became an echo chamber. Not only was any questioning of the candidate's positions quickly squashed, any positive remark made about an opposing candidate was even more immediately reviled.

When Clark dropped out there was great wailing and gnashing of teeth, but the message board continued. We were hoping Kerry would choose Clark as his running mate, but when he chose Edwards instead, many posters turned to relentless trashing of both Kerry and Edwards. At this point (although I have to admit with embarrassment that at the beginning I had been drawn into some of that myself) I began to realize that these folks (and I, as well) had been blinded by their own commitment to the candidate and had not only magnified his attributes into something unrealistic, but were expressing their disappointment and anger at his rejection by the rest of the political world (and by implication the insult to their judgment in having supported him) by vilifying everybody else. Edwards in particular took a horrendous bashing. Finally I got so uncomfortable I stopped posting there, or even reading it.

After all that I learned something about politics, and about myself. This time I didn't allow myself to become emotionally invested in any candidate, but took a cold, hard look at each (ironically, my first choice was Edwards). I understand that this isn't about me, and I am not insulted when people don't agree with me. When Edwards dropped out I went with Obama simply because I believe he has the better chance of defeating the Republican candidate. I am not, however, "in love" with him; I learned that you must never "fall in love" with a politician, as people so often seem to do. If you maintain your objectivity as well as you can and don't make it such a personal thing, you are much less likely to lapse into fits of rage, name-calling, and general assholery when someone has the nerve to disagree with you or criticize your favorite candidate.

[musicblind]

36. Hmm, you seem too intelligent to be on DU. Are you sure you aren't breaking the rules somehow?

But seriously, thank you for that well thought out post. I believe in everything you just said. People on here take this stuff too personal. If you HATE Hillary, as Bill Maher said, that says something about YOU. I certainly don't hate Obama. I think he'd make a fine president, I just personally believe Hillary is the stronger candidate and I really want her specific health plans, and education plans, and I just have a "feeling" about her when it comes to gay issues. It doesn't mean there is something horrible wrong with Obama, or I should hate him. He'll make a fine president. I don't understand some of the people here. I think they come here not to discuss, but to vent. That's not cool, it ruins it for the rest of us. This is a DISCUSSION board, not a therapist's office.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. The flip side, of course, is that if you do insult a candidate in a personal way,

e.g., "Hillary is a liar," or "Obama is a phony," you should not be surprised if his/her supporters react angrily and in kind. By claiming that a candidate is personally bad in some way -- a phony, a liar, a criminal -- you are implying, even if unintentionally, that that candidate's supporters are similarly bad, or that at least they accept and condone their candidate's allegedly bad behavior. You will also utterly fail to persuade them to come over to your side. So when I see all this poo-flinging from either camp, I really wonder what the flingers expect to accomplish. If somebody tells an Obama supporter that Obama is a phony or a liar, for example, would that person be expected to respond, "Oh, silly me! How foolish I was, to condone the terrible behavior of such an awful person and support him and contribute to his campaign. Thank you so much for enlightening me"? I mean, really....

[Tatiana]

39. You nailed it. Thanks for this response. I had a *very* similar journey. n/t

[JoFerret]

69. That's a very thoughful commentary

.

[KansasVoter]

31. You are correct, but we didn't start it, Hillary mocking us did!

The Hillary supporters are so bad. But I agree, even myself at times have been rude. Built up emotion from them I assume. I'll try to be better

[paulk]

61. you've been here for two days

what do you know about what's gone on here?

[book_worm]

32. Apparently you have missed the many totally disrespectful anti-Obama threads

My feeling is this both candidates supporters deserve better than is sometimes found on DU.

[roseBudd]

33. I have to admit my own gender has driven me crazy with their fact free arguments

this has driven me to be sarcastic, and to bring up the Clenis

And to mockingly point out that the Salem Witch trials are so 1692

[totodeinhere]

34. I have no problem with asking each side to treat the other with respect.

In fact I encourage that. But to only single out one side and say that they started it is wrong. In fact, if we are going to come together as a party then we need to stop playing the blame game. And even though you claim to support Obama you are blaming Obama supporters. I would suggest that if you really do support Obama perhaps you should keep it positive.

[Blarch]

35. Fuck that

People like her deserve NO respect.

She is praising Rove, praising Mccain ...and ignoring the will of the people.

Should we now start respecting Bush ?

[JoFerret]

53. Blaaaaaaach

Oops. I just disrespected your right to an opinion different from mine by throwing up on the carpet.
Sorry.

Here I will clear it up while you prepare the toast to the great candidate who will be our nominee in November.

"To victory...all is forgiven".

[ginnyinWI]

37. The rudest ones are the ones that get noticed.

There are a lot of us here who are quiet and civil.

I agree 100% about representing our candidate by following his example of decent behavior. He actually inspires me to want to be better than I otherwise would feel like being.

Lots of times I've started a negative reply and then stopped myself and deleted it because it is not helpful and only feels good for one second anyway, and that's a stupid reason to post something!

I hope all Obama supporters will see this thread and take a hint.

[dansolo]

38. Why are these posts always attacking Obama supporters?

The venom is spewed by both sides, and yet every single one of these types of posts heap the blame exclusively on the Obama supporters. It goes both ways.

[ginnyinWI]

40. I'd say let the HRC supporters take care of their own.

We, as Obama supporters need to encourage each other to take the high road. It doesn't depend on the other side doing the same--you do it because it's the right thing to do.

[Hav]

51. Good point..

I still believe that it's only a minority from both sides that acts like asses. But a few can set the standard when so many who were willing to discuss in a mature way seem to have given up. Too many just try to bait the rest into flame-wars and petty behavior.
One of Obama's messages that resonated well with the people was to believe in hope again instead of engaging in cynicism and I just wish more would act accordingly to really appreciate the meaning behind this. It would be really interesting to see what would happen if a large majority overwhelmingly took the high road. That would make those, who only try to provoke, appear even more misplaced and immature. At the moment, the jerks seem to frame the debate and unfortunately that affects the perception of how all supporters of a certain candidate are seen.

[DearAbby]

44. I apologize Mike

for becoming angry earlier. I too wish to try to heal our party and concentrate on the ultimate goal, that is to get a Democrat in the White house, and hopefully that Democrat will have large coattails that will fill the Senate and House with a Majority.

That is the goal. I promise to try to keep that goal in mind.

[gravity]

45. I respected Hillary a month a ago

Then came the kitchen sink and saying the McCain is a better president.

That was bad enough, but now she in now using racism as a means of convincing the super delegates to go over to her side. I am sorry, but she lost all my respect

[VotesForWomen]

48. thank you. some of the people are absolutely unhinged and they are not doing their candidate any fa

favors.

[LittleClarkie]

49. I dunno, but neither side seems able to get it

Or haven't you noticed us being called Obamatons or cultists or whatnot.

[Unbowed]

50. Respect was given to the Clintons but they and their surrogates alone are responsible for its loss.

I no longer have any respect for these people because of their words and behavior. If I don't respect their actions, how am I supposed the respect them as candidates? Sorry, but they lost my respect when they started praising McCain over Obama.

[AllentownJake]

52. Sigh

I think in the excitement we all lost grip of the reality that being the nominee doesn't make you President.

At the end of the day we need each other to get elected and its stupid of us not to think that we do.

We can't win without each other's supporters. Hopefully after this is settled everyone will wake up take a look at what the alternative is (another war and a draft) and will realize that they don't want to be responsible for more misery in the world.

If your a democrat and you vote for Nader, McCain, or write in the person who doesn't win the nominee you are complicit with whatever happens afterwards.

[elocs]

54. As Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

When I asked my kids why they were fighting my son said, "She hit me", to which my daughter replied, "He hit me". Sounds pretty childish, doesn't it? Doesn't it?

It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys here where everybody has to have the last word, has to take the last shot and up the ante on any and every insult, real or perceived. After all, is not the candidate you do not support responsible for every word, thought, or deed of all of their supporters or advisors? Of course your candidate is exempt from that because isn't a double standard twice as good as a single standard?

We all recognize childish behavior when children do it, we just have trouble recognizing it when we do it. I have read lots and lots of childish behavior here.

[bhikkhu]

63. I tell my kids "a hair for a hair makes the whole world bald"

less bloody imagery that way.

[Raine]

55. I get sick of being called a cult member

and a koolaide drinker but even at that I don't believe I have ever called the Clinton supporters a name. I admit I get "testy" sometimes from frustration but I'm not going to stoop to name calling.

[ruggerson]

58. A lot of Hillary supporters here have never used those terms

and Hillary herself hasn't.

[Beregond2]

57. Negatives...

I haven't seen anyone disrespect a Clinton supporter who is respectful of the Obama supporters. But so many of them have been spewing nonsense about cults and Koolaid, and refusing to look at any of the evidence regarding Hillary's campaign tactics objectively. If you bait people long enough, they will respond in kind.

[LVjinx]

60. I'd guess 25-50% of the Obama supporters here are actually Freepers trying to take the Clintons down

Especially given the quotes that are purposefully taken out of context or made up out of thin air. But its ultimately a completely unverifiable opinion.

[scheming daemons]

62. ... and 75% of the Clinton supporters here are doing Limbaugh's dirty work for him...

...

[bhikkhu]

65. Unverifiable, and entirely unlikely.

RW has been clearly propping up HRC to "bloody Obama up", and thus bloody up the democrat primaries, since it was apparent that HRC didn't have the math for a win.

[ecstatic]

64. HRC doesn't have an *honest* path to the nomination

So her presence is mind boggling. :crazy:

Even so, I'd be perfectly OK with her being in the race if it were not for her Kitchen Sink strategy. That ruined it for me. Each day she continues slowly ensures a GOP victory in November.

[woolldog]

66. I DESPISE the Clintons. I HATE the Clintons

and it is because of their own actions, not the actions of their supporters. But their own actions.

And I started off respecting them and voted for Bill.

[zulchzulu]

67. I've decided to focus wholly on McCain at this point although it's hard holding back against...

...people like Bill Clinton inferring that Barack Obama is "unpatriotic" or "unAmerican"... or when Joe Wilson says that Barack Obama would be a "danger to this country" or when Hillary Clinton says that Barack Obama is "unAmerican" because the Michigan Democratic Party leaders decided not to follow the rules...

These accusations from the Clinton campaign is just from this week!

If the Clinton campaign actually not only respected the opposition (I'm talking about Obama) and didn't actually endorse McCain and seem willing to destroy the Democratic Party because they know they are going to lose, then we can talk about fair and even dialogue.

Again, I'm going to focus on McCain but have no problem with people exposing the Clintons for their latest careless tactics trying to destroy Barack Obama. I would suggest that links and succinct responses to their tactics work best toward educating people that aren't aware of what's the real ugly side to this campaign.

[stillcool]

68. What is a shame...

is racial crap being posted incessantly. And lies. The only way to avoid getting into it with these posters, is to "ignore" it.