Clearly, Mrs. Clinton has lost the nomination.

[saltpoint]

[XemaSab]

1. Clearly

n/t

[JVS]

2. Yup. Now she just has to strike the tent.

[L0oniX]

3. I agree...

:popcorn:

[EFerrari]

4. She has. I wonder how they will stage the exit.

She may have to quit to spend more time sticking socks in poor Bill's mouth.

eta: Yes, I know that's mean. I was pretty nice all day. Sue me.

[saltpoint]

8. Good question on an exit strategy. Maybe Mark Penn can stop counting

all the hundreds of thousands of bucks he's made as her consultant and come up with something.

Possibly a Thelma & Louise finish . . .

[quakerboy]

9. The real question

is do they exit stage Left or stage Right

[merh]

25. good one

welcome to DU. :hi:

[quakerboy]

66. Thanks

[MindMatter]

63. No GD way. They don't get off that easily

After all the bullshit they have put the party through with this nomination, they had better be prepared to work their freaking asses off -- I'm talking Bill and Hillary both -- for every last candidate on the every ticket across the country.

No way they get to sit on the sidelines after this.

[madville]

133. They will be campaigning for McCain

She will at least be hoping McCain wins so she has a shot in 2012 since she will be too old by 2016, nobody wants their grandma for a president.

[KittyWampus]

31. I don't know but it'll rival Joan Crawford, for sure.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Exit strategy:

5:00 to 5:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqsf0XynGz8

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

116. Someone get the hook!

[zabet]

5. Clearly,

Obama does not have the
required number of delegates
to be the uncontested nominee.
Therefore, she has not lost.
It ain't over 'til it's over.

Hiya OC :hi:

[saltpoint]

10. Hi, citizen_jane. We disagree on the nomination outcome but by god

you are one of the classiest souls in cyberspace.

[zabet]

36. You too.

:pals:

[PM7nj]

12. Ah! The Huckabee strategy!

[Blarch]

103. She lost.

She cannot win and STILL respect the will of the people.

I wouldn't call your position classy in the least, it's disgusting.

[baldguy]

6. She's verging on losing her mind.

[Hepburn]

143. What do you mean "verging?"

She put out a story that as First Lady. she was under fire on her arrival in Bosnia...and it was a total, bullshit lie. The only explanation for her doing something this far off the truth is that she did not think there were any witnesses or pictures. One, IMO, has to be fucking insane to take that position.

[jillan]

7. And Obama has 2025 delegates?

C'mon OC - I thought you were smarter than that.

[Bonobo]

13. She's like a blinded ogre flailing her arms, destroying everything in her path.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

115. Good analogy, just not a pretty picture.

[jgraz]

16. "Lost" in the sense of "has no chance of winning"

It's like when you're at a football game and the score is 35 to 7 with 3 minutes left. You look up at the scoreboard and say "this game is over" and head for your car.

Now, you know the game is not technically "over" until the clock hits 0:00, but anyone with half a brain who's seen more than one football game knows what the outcome is going to be. If someone responded to you with "Over?? And has the clock hit zero yet?" you'd laugh in their face.


So, it may be that we're just expecting that you've had a bit of experience with elections, or that you're able to handle the tiniest bit of nuance. And it may be that we're tragically wrong about that.

[Blondiegrrl]

47. That's a great analogy! n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

17. C'mon, pirhana, even you can see the writing on the wall.

If a team's down 30 points and there's only 1 minute left in the game, even though it's not technically over, you can say it's over.

[jillan]

26. Them are the rules. Obama says we must stick by the rules of the DNC

that's why he doesn't want a revote in Fla or MI.

You can't pick and choose which rules you wish to follow.

[wileedog]

32. Its not a technical or legal thing

Its a common sense thing. Its a Democratic party over self thing.

Its a moral thing.

[jillan]

39. It's the Democratic Party rules thing. A candidate needs to reach 2025 before they become the

nominee.

[wileedog]

53. You're being obtuse

The point is to win the GE, not play technical games with the primaries.

She has almost no chance to win. If she does win, it means the Superdelegates over-turned the pledged delegates and the party is fucked anyway.

She has a miracle chance of sliming her way to the nomination. She cannot win the GE, the party will be broken in half, and the African American vote gone.

She can keep this charade up, do more damage to the guy who in all probability will be our nominee, and become one of the most hated Democrats in history if he loses.

Or she can avoid all that by dropping now and uniting behind Obama. She can gain back some respect from Democrats that she cares about the party first, then herself.

But I get the feeling she would rather see McCain win anyway than this upstart who stole her coronation.

[Drunken Irishman]

38. Hey I don't doubt they're the rules.

But it's over. Everyone knows it's over.

Like I said, there could be a minute left and if the team is down big, conventional wisdom says you can start saying the game is over. It doesn't mean the game has to end, but it's over. Clinton won't win this thing.

[Divernan]

28. Ya know how pirhanas are - they bite on a stick and hang on till they're dead

And if you flip one out of the water onto the shore, they keep biting air with their nasty little teeth until they die. It's just their nature. So I don't have any expectation of being able to reason with one.

[jillan]

37. Wow - what a nice thing to say!

[saltpoint]

40. Not to be disputatious, Divernan, but I do have a great deal of

respect for this poster. I followed her posts and threads during the period of the nomination battle when Joe Biden was making Bush's foreign policy a matter of essence in those voters' minds fortunate enough to listen to him.

For me, anyway, that denotes a steady hand on a flashlight cast upon those remarks. It elevated dialogue here on these boards. pirhana and I are not seeing the nomination race in its current circumstances in the same terms but we've been closely aligned in efforts to bring the words and ideas of good Democrats to the public square. She's eclipsed me in many of those endeavors, but I threw in when I could to offer support.

[monmouth]

95. I agree OC. I may not agree with Pirhana on this one but her

opinions and evaluations are extremely thought out and very relevant. Pirhana and I still long for those days of an active Joe Biden candidate...Those were the days "my friends"....oops, sorry.

[Divernan]

127. I'll take your word on that. "What's in a name?" eh?

As a scuba diver, I rank pirhanas worse than some sharks in mindless agression. There are books written about how to avoid the dangers of sharks. Now "Old Crusoe" is a positive name - a literary character whom I admire. Interesting how we choose to present ourselves to people through our screen names.

[saltpoint]

19. Nope. I'm thick as a brick, dumb as a post, and as clueless as I am

despondent to current events.

[Why Syzygy]

11. I'm breathing a little easier today. Bless Bill Richardson! nt

[saltpoint]

14. Agree. Gov. Richardson put some genuine time into the Clinton years

and would know a thing or two about this and that, seems to me.

I trust the man's judgment, and I think he picked the right candidate to endorse.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. Literally, figuratively and Clearly

She has lost the nomination.

[MannyGoldstein]

18. You ObamaniacsTruly Need Professional Help

All you can talk about is "facts", "truth", "votes", "delegates", and "states".

Sad.

[saltpoint]

21. That isn't true, Manny. Once I did a thread on Lou Dobbs' former career as

one of the original Teletubbies and hardly anyone participated.

I'm still pouting over it, too.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. LOL

:rofl:

Well done!

[DJ13]

20. When an old personal friend endorses the other guy its time to quit

Thank you Bill Richardson, you may have saved the party from total chaos.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. Yes indeed. BR 4 VP!

[better tomorrow]

23. so you just figured that out?

I've known for quite awhile now....

[saltpoint]

24. Hell, we're just now putting in indoor plumbin'.

But eventually we do catch up with the times.

[better tomorrow]

42. well be careful flushin' out all the crap now.....

sounds like you are doing a good job finally....

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. Love Bill Bradley. Talk about a decent human being.

[saltpoint]

120. Agree whole-heartedly, InAbLuEsTaTe. A soundly decent human being who

would make an excellent vice president.

I've cottoned on to his avatar to advance that notion!

I'd settle for a Cabinet post for Bradley, too -- maybe Health & Human Services.

[thoughtcrime1984]

27. Bravo, Old Crusoe

Time to bang the gong.

[saltpoint]

29. I think your screen name portends our next president, and also I

like your avatar.


:thumbsup:

[thoughtcrime1984]

35. I like Bill Bradley as well!

He was on my short list for an avatar, lol. :toast:

[saltpoint]

41. We got the avatar vibe goin'!

[WillyT]

30. And Clearly... She Does Not Care...

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

33. Hi, WillyT. As always, I can't have what I want, which is to have a transcript

of the strategy sessions held in conference rooms by the Clinton campaign.

It would be astonishing to have transcripts of the meeting in which it was decided that Geraldine Ferraro would race-bait in the Gibson interview on FOX News. I'd love to know whose idea that was. I'd like to know who else nodded their head yes when the proposal was made.

[WillyT]

51. I Hear Ya... But Ya Know, We See What We See...

and sometimes we see right through the shit pile.

My gut has been confirming my suspicions about the HRC Campaign since So. Carolina.

And it has been correct ever since.

:shrug:

:hi:

[saltpoint]

55. You had it down and you had it down right.

I have no idea in hell who unleased Big Dog in SC like that, but it sure didn't work.

[grassfed]

34. selfdelete

[DemGa]

54. Get lost from Daily Kos or freeperville?

[KoKo]

43. Been reading that "Politico Rag" again? Sheesh...thought you

were too savy to swallow that crap...

In case you missed it: "Inside the Politico"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3043518&mesg_id=3043518

[EFerrari]

44. It's been a week since Pelosi implied it was time for Clinton to bow out.

[KoKo]

46. Really? Nancy SPEAKS...we should ALL FALL DEAD....

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

50. Whatever. I'm not willing to fall down dead for Nancy.

:)

[saltpoint]

52. You know who HAS fallen dead? The vice presidential aspirations of

Tom Vilsack and Evan Bayh.

[KoKo]

60. It's looking like Obama is going to pick Richardson and McCain is going with Lieberman?

At least that's what it looked like on the news tonight. Richardson is looking very VP sporting his "new bearded macho look" and Lieberman is going around carrying diapers for McCain. Lieberman is the toady for everyone...but they all OWE HIM...particularly the Repugs.

I'm thinking the above is the "deal" unless something else comes up to change it...and who knows...what other crap is going to drop on American's Heads in the coming year...

[saltpoint]

61. I think Lieberman is betting on the wrong horse.

McCain is not a horse, per se, at least not ALL of a horse. He's more of the south end of a northbound horse.

[KoKo]

71. lol's...Lieberman would jump on either end of any horse that could take

him to the top... He's been trying since "stolen Election 2000...and was working on it before. What a disgrace he is... And, he doesn't think anyone notices? But, maybe McCain is gonna go for the UNITY '08 DREAM TICKET... and make fools of us Dems once again. Man was born under a lucky star...maybe a malevolent one in the end, though. If he does to McCain Ticket what he did to Gore in 2000. :eyes: Of course, snakes like him always find some other place to slither.

[Liberal Gramma]

69. I don't think he'll pick Lieberman

He needs a reliably Republican VP to offset his reputation as a maverick. If he picked Joe, he'd alienate the other half of his base.

[SoCalDem]

96. Joe's gunning for Sec of Defense

pun intended :scared:

[David Zephyr]

87. I don't discount your comments about McCain picking Lieberman as VP.

Joe isn't doing this for nothing.

I think he'd be thrilled to be head of Homeland Security Department so he could get even with all of us. LOL.

[Samantha]

77. Also Carville, who probably had been measuring for drapes in

Karl Rove's old office. Carville appeared to be turning blue and gasping for air today ....

Sam

[saltpoint]

81. Agree. He is a snarling reptile of a strategist and he's smart enough

to know he's been whupped.

If Senator Clinton's chances at the nomination were at all promising, we wouldn't be seeing all the venom spraying from Carville's mouth.

[saltpoint]

45. What Rag do you mean?

[KoKo]

48. here.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3043518&mesg_id=3043518

[saltpoint]

49. I don't go to that site. I'm damned particular about the websites I

hang out on.

[KoKo]

56. Good to know that....whew....Why do you think Hillary should bow out, then?

It's the Politico that's been pushing this over to Josh Marshall's TPM site. Josh uses Politico as source most times these days.

[saltpoint]

58. KoKo, I wish you godspeed on any site you want to read. But I'm mighty

particular.

I do like the Marshall site a lot.

Politico? Ehhh, not so much.

I hunt through a lot of art sites and book sites when I can. Also I put a lot of faith in personal recommendations on titles, including one by a poster near and dear and HERE in this thread, sfexpat2000, who turned me on to one of the most sublime books I've ever read, Simon Schama's THE POWER OF ART.

Look for me off-stage in Caravaggio's light source.

[KoKo]

64. Caravaggio's light source. Exhibit of his work came here to NC...

got to see it. Incredible! And it was only a small representation of his work but still impressive in some of the notable ones.

I will check out Schama's book.

Maybe in another life we all meet in a "beam of light" in the "divine somewhere." I have a lot of affection for those who've been here for awhile like you and a few others.

:hug:

[saltpoint]

65. Right back atcha, KoKo. And Schama's book is probably at the ready with

a discount on any of the on-line book services.

It is a landmark read. I've happily lost a LOT of sleep in its pages!


:hug: :yourock:

[David Zephyr]

80. Caravaggio and KoKo01.

There's hope after all.

[apocalypsehow]

57. Yep. All she's doing now is trying to damage him enough to let McCain win - there's 2012, after all.

n/t.

[The_Casual_Observer]

62. This week's classic kos/buzzflash/DU post.

[KoKo]

67. Yep...kind of says it all for those of us who are "under the Boot or Bus"...

..because we aren't bowing...to either the Messiah or the other one...

It's kind of shocking that sites some of us have supported since "Stolen Election 2000" decided that many of their members...."just don't belong on their sites" anymore. I guess support of Netroots isn't that important these days. Funding must be coming from "other places." :eyes:

[Rageneau]

68. Don't call me Shirley.

[saltpoint]

70. I would NEVER call you Shirley. In fact, I kind of see you as a Zorro figure.

Here -- put on this mask.

[saltpoint]

72. Mrs. Clinton underestimated her opponents generally and underestimated

Barack Obama especially.

And John Edwards placed ahead of her in Iowa on a far more modest campaign budget.

HClinton lost the nomination by imagining, pre-Iowa, that she wouldn't have to fight hard to get it.

[Samantha]

73. I think so

and that is why we see the desperation in their words and actions. It must be a bitter pill to swallow, the pill of defeat.

Nice to hear from you, Old Crusoe.

Sam

PS: I assume Hillary will rejoin her Senate seat (already in progress) and seek another. Over the long haul, what kind of working relationship do you think she will have with a President Obama? Will she smile as her picture is being taken with him on strategic occasions but undercut his Presidency with an occasional knive in the back; or will a miracle occur and her conduct both on and off camera will be beyond reproach? Your prediction?

[saltpoint]

74. Hi, Sam. Good questions. I don't believe she will stay in the Senate.

After this 2nd term ends, I think she'll step aside.

I'd like to see Robert Kennedy, Jr. sit in that seat.

And maybe Dodd or Durbin take over the Senate leader's role, with a bit larger majority to work with this time.

[Samantha]

79. Any chance, do you think, that Obama would give Lincoln Chafee

a spot?

[saltpoint]

83. Can't be ruled out, since it would create an Opposed-to-the-War-from

the beginning ticket versus McCain, the clueless pro-Surge rattle-trap warmonger and whoever else he puts on the GOP ticket.

Obama and Chafee would draw independents from "maverick" McCain as well.

[Samantha]

88. So the rumors are true ... Obama will award her an ambassadorship

to a Muslim country and insist on seeing frequent pictures on the front page of The Washington Post? In keeping with diplomatic standards she will adhere to local custom and of course have her face covered, right?

Seems only fitting ....

[saltpoint]

89. : ) An ambassadorship might be the best bet for her. She's not really

a legislative kind of spirit, seems like. More of the imperious let's-have-a-dinner-party kind of spirit.

The Seychelles would be nice...

[David Zephyr]

75. Yes, Old Crusoe. And the Clintons are about to lose something else...

their self-respect and dignity.

They look angry, bitter, mean and conniving now.

The Super Delegates will soon be running away from them like lepers if they continue their march to hell.

[Poll_Blind]

76. I'm thinking they're going to throw in the towel soon- but I almost hope not.

I'd rather their kind of politics suffer a public excoriation than escape to wound-lick for four years and come back nastier.

PB

[saltpoint]

82. Hi, David Zephr. You have it from my heart. The way the Clintons have

conducted themselves in this campaign is the basis for my OP.

They've stunk up the place with race-baiting surrogates and today we have Jim Carville doing his backstage rodent act over Governor Richardson.

[EFerrari]

93. And that's just sad.

:(

[Johnnie vs Jack]

78. geez

wow, the bitterness on DU has baffled me for years now.

[saltpoint]

84. You're baffled after 4 posts?

Jesus.

[Ellipsis]

94. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5H7F2Zsxl0&feature=related

[Hepburn]

145. You joined the DU yesterday....

...how the fuck does that equate to YEARS? :shrug:

[Johnnie vs Jack]

155. .

Because I've been lurking here since '01...I just decided to start posting now because I have time to do so and build up to the 1000+ posts people have here...

[BenDavid]

85. wait, there could be the other shoe to drop, and the whoremedia

cannot protect obama's ass on this one.......not saying there will be but if obama had not the whoremedia to help him out of this wright hate speeches and his lies that he never attended a sermon where he heard any hate sermon but contradicted himself in his tuesday speech by saying and I quote"“Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes,” he said in his speech yesterday in Philadelphia.

Obama should be finished having lied to his supporters but also the american people....yep, obama is bush LIKE all the way

[saltpoint]

86. BenDavid, I'll honor your loyalty to your candidate.

But it doesn't change the mix before us.

She thought she'd have it in the bag after Feb. 5th and when it just didn't fall that way, and it was clear that Obama was catching her, and then passing her, she and her surrogates turned nasty and petty.

That's the state of the Clinton campaign right now. Shaheen. Big Dog in SC. Ferraro stunking up the place on FOX News.

I'll vote for her if she miraculously pulls it out, but the riverboat gambler in my blood tells me she's lost it on the force of her own arrogance.

[JTFrog]

137. Wipe the spittle from your chin. It's unbecoming. n/t

[JI7]

90. she hasn't lost the 2012 nomination

[whopis01]

153. Don't you mean 2016? Or do you think Obama will lose in 2008? n/t

[paulk]

91. clear as mud.

[saltpoint]

92. The mud in question is being slung by the Clinton camp.

That's all the Clinton team has got to offer right now is mud. And they've been quite free in where they've been slinging it.

[Perry Logan]

97. I call bullshit. The nastiness of the Clinton campaign is an Obamite myth.

[FrenchieCat]

98. But the math doesn't lie.......

[Perry Logan]

99. It's scary how the anti-Clinton folks repeat their memes over and over, as if that made them true.

[MadHound]

100. It's scary how some Hillary supporters are so out of touch with reality

And how they are willing to sacrifice anything and everything, including the party, on the altar of their candidate's greed and ambition.

[saltpoint]

105. Perry, it's too widely perceived and noted to be ignored.

It's turned a lot of folks off.

I think Gov. Richardson's endorsement had a lot to do with the perception that HClinton's team did not plan for contests post-Feb 5th. You can't build a party infrastructure to support a more progressive legacy by unleashing surrogates against primary opponents.

[paulk]

121. is this your first rodeo?

I don't think so...

There's been plenty of mud to go around....

[saltpoint]

130. The race-baiting has been a Clinton tap-dance, featuring Billy Shaheen in

New Hampshire, the Big Dog himself in South Carolina, and of course of late, Geraldine Ferraro on FOX News.

Hard to miss, actually.

[paulk]

141. Obama campaign has been quite willing to play the race card -

starting with Joe Biden.

Wanna know a secret?

Obama is a black man. And it is a factor.

And it will be an even bigger factor in the GE.

[saltpoint]

144. For many voters, it is not a major factor. They are drawn to Obama for

other, more complex reasons.

Biden apologized to Obama over that remark; Obama graciously accpeted the apology. The nomination race went forward. Over and done with.

[paulk]

152. for many Democrats it isn't a major factor

for many independents and those in the center it is. Those are the people who decide elections.

I'm glad this is happening - if Obama can weather this storm he will be a better nominee in the GE - if not - then the party will have avoided putting forth a damaged candidate. Because the Republicans for sure would have hammered on this - and with a lot less restraint.


------------------

ps - I never felt Biden had anything to apologize for. His remarks were deliberately taken out of context. The race card was played, and the Obama campaign lost me right there. I'm sick of hearing about how nasty the Clinton campaign has been. Obama and his campaign have shown a willingness and ability to play the same game. The only difference, to me at least, is the Obama campaign's passive aggresive tactic of playing the victim. It's hypocritical and underhanded.

[saltpoint]

154. Obama owns the independent demographic coming and going for this

cycle.

No one else is close. Especially McCain, the ex-maverick and now hyper-panderer. The more palatable he tries to make himself with the Far Right the fewer independents will be drawn to him, and all we have to do is throw a few Mr. Prosurge McCain ads together and still more independents, who rejected the war from the start, will flee the GOP ticket in droves.

[paulk]

156. I wish I had more of your belief in the American voter

the one's who put Bush in office, not once but twice. Not to mention Bush pere and the idiot Reagan. Again, twice.

[Bake]

157. Bill Clinton said nothing racist in S.C.

It was the Obama camp, with their faux outrage, that threw the race card. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, OC, for propagating the Bill-Clinton-is-a-racist bullshit. I guess being a racist and all, is why he put his office in HARLEM.

The Big Dog said nothing factually wrong (or wrong in any other sense) in S.C. Just like so many of Obama's supporters like to say that Rev. Wright didn't say anything wrong.

Shame on you.

Bake

[NoPasaran]

101. Clearly, she hasn't.

And that's SENATOR Clinton, to you, bub!

[saltpoint]

107. I was hoping her primary opponent in NY would pull off a miracle,

but honor NY Dems' selection.

Mrs. Clinton -- her own slogan included "I'm your girl" -- has been outflanked and outwitted. She is said to be in financial straits compared to her opponent's flush wallet.

There are rationales for her still to claim the nomination, but they are remote sets of circumstances against increasingly longer odds.

[Vinca]

102. If the tables were turned, Obama would already be a footnote in history.

The only reason Hillary is in the race at this point is her name.

[saltpoint]

108. Hi, Vinca. Yes -- her frontrunner status and the command she held in

polling all last summer and well into the fall were owed to the political celebrity accrued as her husband's wife.

Feminists who object to that view were far less vocal in their support for Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun, another woman and another Illinois native, in her 2004 run for the party's nomination. It's odd how it was not sexist to support Kerry/Edwards/Dean/Gephardt/ etc. in 2004 but it IS sexist to support males generally in 2008 and Obama particularly.

Many other women would make wonderful presidents but do not enjoy national celebrity like Mrs. Clinton because unlike Mrs. Clinton, their husbands were not politically famous.

[Vinca]

110. Good point - Carol Mosely-Braun was essentially "disappeared"

and no one was crying either sexism or racism.

[saltpoint]

111. Yes. And despite some inside woes regarding her political

apparatus, CMB was a hell of an intelligent soul. I don't see ground at all for promoting Hillary Clinton over Senator Mosely-Braun. Both women are from Illinois and highly successful and brainy and tough, but the senator from NY had a politically famous husband and got the slobbering adulation of the media while the senator from IL did not.

[Vinca]

112. You're exactly right. I liked CMB, too. nt

[BklynChick]

104. the question is: when will she see that and drop out for the good of the party?

[saltpoint]

109. Can't say. I'm not in favor of her dropping out as opposed to her

staying in, but having said that, I would ask the mainstream media why it was Hillary Hillary Hillary all summer and fall long and minimal to zero coverage of most of the other Democratic candidates in the nomination race.

The First Amendment permits bias in coverage in content and quantity of coverage, but that doesn't make it good policy or fair play. HClinton rode the built-in media advantage she had from the moment folks started talking about her political next step after the re-election to the U.S. Senate from NY. Had the Hillary-fawning minion media offered equal time and news-ticker coverage to other Democrats in the mix, their virtues would have been much more quickly and fairly considered, their fund-raising corrrespondingly stronger, and ultimately, their candidacies far more competitive than they were.

Did Evan Bayh drop out of the race when he was approached by HClinton's team to clear the field in Iowa because she was not inevitable? Would he have dropped out of the race had Joe Biden asked him to? Or Tom Vilsack -- had Kucinich or Richardson said to Vilsack, "Look, you clear out of the path for us and we'll retire your campaign debt in return for an endorsement in Iowa" ?

Not likely.

[jerryster]

113. Slight disagreement with you on this one

First of all, let me compliment you on your excellent postings here and your respectful manner. Your responses are well thought out and never spiteful. Kudos to you.

My disagreement with you on this post is that I feel that Hillary and Obama both got extensive coverage. The other candidates certainly got short shrift in the debates. Didn't Joe Biden have to wait over 15 minutes in one debate before he got a chance to speak. And Dennis Kucinich's wife was really pissed off about all the time given to Hillary, Obama (and Edwards).

[saltpoint]

114. Hi, jerryster. Yes -- actually we agree on the imbalance of coverage in

the nomination race and the fault lies in my failure to state it more clearly.

In 2004, media coverage/candidate media imbalance was so blatant on ABC News that Ted Koppel publicly ridiculed Kucinich and was contemptuous and both DK and Carole Moseley-Bruan. In commentary, First Amendment considerations permit analysis with white-knuckled hands flailing away. But in quotidian news coverage, networks and their reporters way too often step over the line and behave dismissively toward candidacies they or their corporate owners don't want to see advanced.

I agree -- there isn't a case that can be made for fair media coverage in the 2008 nomination contest.

[ulysses]

106. yes.

[JerseygirlCT]

119. I think it's likely over

I wish it would be done in a better way. As it is, she's likely going to lose both the nomination and her reputation. Sad.

[ClericJohnPreston]

122. Put a lot of thought into this post Old Crusoe?

Now, why don't you tell us what you had for breakfast, since any thought rolling in that empty noggin, especially self-indulgent posting, seems worthy to you.

[saltpoint]

126. Happily I relay to you our breakfast layout this Saturday morning.

Eggs. Scrambled, the heat rising off them as they hit the plates next to the bacon. We'd like to cut down on the fatty meats but bacon holds us in its spell. Grilled bacon is the trump card that alters human will. It is kryptonite to the will's diet plan.

And blueberry muffins, with almost more blueberries than muffin. Let the muffin part hold the blueberries so that TECHNICALLY they're still muffins, but mostly they're globs of blueberries and lots of of them. The gods and goddesses eat blueberries and nothing else, as is well known.

Juice. Limeade this morning. Not just a sole favorite but strong personal preference as well.

Background music: Laura Nyro's ELI AND THE 13TH CONFESSION.

Hope you can dig it.

[ClericJohnPreston]

131. I can dig it

as you are happy to lay all this trash on the table. Thanks for proving my point, though. Cheerio Pops!

[saltpoint]

132. We like Cheerios but only sometimes and only if it's the honey-coated ones.

The regular ones just don't do it for us.

They lack charisma.

Blueberry Morning cereal, on the other hand, is excellent. Strongly recomended.

[Enrique]

123. 18 recs so far

and this here comment of mine will cause a bunch of spite recs.

[npincus]

124. "The Thing That Wouldn't Leave"

[Bensthename]

125. Though with Rush's help she IS getting more votes lately. With those votes too she may win Pen.

[saltpoint]

128. Polling gives her Pennsylvania by a wide margin, but events conspire

agains the long-term rationale for her getting the nomination in Denver.

She is not the coice of many party chairs and co-chairs in counties around the country. These are folks who have to battle on a door-to-door level to elect not only a national ticket but Democrats for city, county, and statewide races that comprise the much more immediate political world they have to navigate in.

They see it as a case of more Democrats being far better than fewer, and in that understandable light, they are not nearly as enthusiastic about a Clinton-headed ticket as Senator Clinton is.

[Coexist]

129. clearly, Richardson is on MSNBC now!

[saltpoint]

134. Love Bill, but no tv on Saturday mornings. We have Laura Nyro on

right now.

I sure do miss Ms. Nyro.

[mathewsleep]

135. she's invested too much, she's going to ride this horse until it dies underneath her.

[saltpoint]

136. 'mornin'.

I love horses so would hate to see one wasted in a pointless quest.

But I fear you are right.

[mathewsleep]

138. mornin'

i usually sleep in saturdays, but i have a slight hang over so i can't sleep.
hillary can't drop out, she's afraid people will label her a quitter.

[saltpoint]

139. If she goes on to lose the nomination to Barack Obama, it will be

interesting to see if she decides to run again for another Senate term.

I'm thinking she won't.

The longer she stays in a losing nomination battle, the more likely it is her team will have to rely on smears to make gains. I don't think she profits long-term from that. And as a lot of folks are noticing, it's really not healthy for the party, which means many other Democrats are damaged by her staying in the race without a clear rationale.

I hope the hangover fades quickly and you're on your way to a great weekend. :hi:

[mathewsleep]

140. i think she's going to run for governor of something.

or she'll hope obama loses so she can run again in four years.

[saltpoint]

146. She may have to eventually acknowledge that he has outflanked her.

And I think if he wins the nom, he's our next president, and more likely for 8 years than 4.

This is Hillary Clinton's only shot at the Oval Office, I think, which is why the race-baiting has been so virulent.

[mathewsleep]

147. think she's going to beg for the vp slot?

not that i expect obama would except.

[saltpoint]

148. mathewsleep, who do you think would be a good match for Obama for

the veep slot?

Should he go with Wes Clark, or Bill Richardson, or someone else?

I think you're right -- I don't think he's going to ask Mrs. Clinton.

[mathewsleep]

149. i really like sibelius.

but i think he's supposed to pick a white guy.
wes clark's been to strong behind hillary, but a general or someone with military experience would be good. people say webb, but there's something i don't like about him, he only got his seat because the republican incumbent said some very racist stuff.

i'd like to see obama defy general wisdom and go with kathleen sibelius. obama does defy general wisdom a lot so maybe that's a real possibility.

[saltpoint]

150. I like her too. A Kansas governor would be kind of breath-taking.

And her old man was governor of Ohio.

I've liked these folks for a long time.

On Webb -- it might be good to keep a guy like that in the Senate. He's a good fighter and isn't afraid of any Pukes. Also I love the way he upset Cement-Head Allen in Virginia.

[mathewsleep]

151. kansas has term limits.

so she's going to be out of a job in a couple of years, so she really needs a new job.

[treestar]

142. I wouldn't say that yet

However, it is a decent thread title.

[Bake]

158. Funny, I keep hearing Obama supporters talking about "math."

But did Obama get to 2025 this weekend, and I missed it? NOBODY gets to 2025 without the superdelegates. You all love to talk about the math, but none of you seems to admit that Obama doesn't have a clear first-ballot nomination. Not yet.

Bake