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JOE WILSON: Obama's Shallow Credentials on National Security Are Dangerous for the Country

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:39 PM
Original message
JOE WILSON: Obama's Shallow Credentials on National Security Are Dangerous for the Country
Claims of superior intuitive judgment by his campaign and by him are self-evidently disingenuous, especially in light of disclosures about his long associations with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezko. But his assertions of advanced judgment are also ludicrous when the question of what Obama has accomplished in his four years in the Senate is considered.

As the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee subcommittee on Europe, he has not chaired a single substantive oversight hearing, even though the breakdown in our relations with Europe and NATO is harming our operations in Afghanistan. Nor did he take a single official trip to Europe as chairman. This is the sum total of his actions in the most important responsibility he has had in the Senate. What are his actual experiences that reassure us that when the phone rings at 3 a.m. he will know what to do, which levers of power to pull, or which world leaders he can count on?

Obama has stated that he will rely upon his advisers. But how will he know which ones to depend upon and how will he be able to evaluate what they say? Already, one of his chief foreign policy advisers, Samantha Power, has been compelled to resign for, among other indiscretions, honestly revealing on a British television program that Obama's public position on withdrawal from Iraq is not really his true position, nor does it reflect what he would do. Her gaffe exposed a vein of cynicism on national security. How confident can we be in his judgment? In fact, the hard truth is that he has no such experience.

Obama has tried to have it both ways on the issue of national security. On the one hand, he claims his intuition somehow would make him best equipped to handle the difficult challenges that face the next president. On the other hand, he tries to ridicule and dismiss as relatively insignificant the idea that actual experience with and intimate knowledge of foreign affairs and leaders, the U.S. military, the intelligence community, and the intricacies of diplomacy matter. He has even suggested that talking about the problems of national security amounts to exploitation of "fear." One of Obama's fervent supporters, a Harvard professor named Orlando Patterson, who has no expertise in foreign policy, wrote absurdly in a New York Times op-ed that the 3 a.m. ad wasn't about national security at all, but really a subliminal racist attack. Delusions aside, sometimes a discussion about national security is about national security.

There will, in fact, be 3 a.m. phone calls for the next president. They are not make believe. I have been there for such calls. The next president cannot be afraid or hesitant of handling the enormous national security crises that President Bush will leave behind. One thing is certain -- the calls will come. Obama has only an abdication of his chief senatorial responsibility as a basis for assessing what his judgment might be if and when the phone rings. Which of his shifting coterie of volatile advisers would he turn to? Will it be the one who repudiated his withdrawal plan, exposing his real intention, prior to being forced to resign? Or will it be those advisers who remained silent until politically convenient -- several years and several thousand lives after the shock and awe invasion, conquest and disastrous occupation of Iraq?

The calls are real and experience is real, too. The campaign might be treated as a game by the media, but those calls are serious, deadly serious.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-wilson/obamas-shallow-credentia_b_92586.html
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm tired of this national security bullshit
FUCK national security and FUCK YOU Joe Wilson.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Do you actually read what you type?

:silly:
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. do you actually type to support hype?
National security as a scare tactic in an election is just bullshit. It's cedeing ameme to the republicans.

Like Hillary has ANY superior national security creds whatsoever.
ALL Senators are equally capable of minding national security, and Obama's plan to actually pursue the greatest threat to our security, Al Queada in Afghanistan, and properly secure outr borders without the groupthink AAA approach of his predecessors is a damn site better than anything else I've heard.

Look, there have ALWAYS been terrorists. ALWAYS. Since before the founding of this country.
And they are not any more organized now than they were then,or richer, except the media has a big bogeyman to sell their ads with and you buy into the hype.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. Well, who am I ,or Joe Wilson, to argue with an expert like ...
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 10:06 PM by SaveOurDemocracy
Capn Sunshine, SIR!!! :patriot:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. lol
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
111. B........
INGO:-)

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
132. well this is the 5th time this bullshit article has been posted here
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
138. Not a single one of our most serious threats has a military solution
Cut this "commander in chief" shit and go back to talking about what a PRESIDENT should do.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
72. If anybody knows about shallow credentials it's Joe Wilson
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #72
129. Great
Wasn't it 24 hours ago when Obama supporters were defending Olbermann when he tired to link Clinton to the passport scandal without any proof? Yet Joe Wilson speaks about Obama's so called better judgement Wilson doesn't know what he's talking about. Fuck off O cult
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Foreign policy credentials are not Hillary's strength
There have been an awful lot of news articles lately pointing out her own misrepresentations of her involvement in foreign policy.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Just now noticed your sig line, JIOOU --
great quotes, and of course I couldn't agree more! :hi:
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
94. a little sour grapey but I'm not ready to give them up yet!
:D
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama's a good campaigner, but I think the actual presidency is over his head
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. How do you know that?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Same way people here know Hillary has laser beam eyes and a deatth squad?
Someone on the news tells them.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
83. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL ...
:loveya: :yourock:

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
102. Oh......
that "news" will do it everytime!! te he

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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Honey, I know men, and he's all talk and no action; sweet-talkin' dude
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. You know nothing..you're just fulla yourself like hilary..
and she knows nothing but lies.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. "Honey, I know men?"
No offense, I just can't believe that's your justification for your negativity. It seems oddly placed.

Kind of a broad brush to use on Barack, isn't it?

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
90. Join us for another episode of YOU DONT KNOW DICK
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
114. Do you know bad and dangerous men too?
Because that'd put you in great company, obviously.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
117. the last thing any woman ever knows is men.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #117
123. Yeah, but vice versa is also true.
:shrug:
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #123
125. i completely agree :)
which brings up the paradox, if a man cannot truly know a woman, how can he know that she does not know men. Does that mean that the few who confidently claim insight into the other gender are correct or subjectively arrogant.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Hey, I'm only 56 - how would I know?
But, subjectively arrogant makes ME feel better.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
120. He doesn't know that.
I think Obama is a little over his head.
:hi:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I think he's all about "getting folks together on Race Relations" but doesn't get Iraq and how
we've killed those "other people of color" ...OVER THERE...

I wish he'd focus more on issues that face the country than himself.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Everything is over hilary's head since she's wallowing
down there in the sewer fomenting lies as we type.
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. That ugliness makes me want to follow your candidate -- not!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. You're not smart enough .. n/t
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Smart enough not to be duped by the smooth-talkin' dude. He's a loser.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. "Take me in, oh, tender woman, take me in for heaven's sake ..."
:D
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #61
91. he's a loser. what's that make you cupcake?
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
115. Yep, quite the loser
He has about 20 IQ points on Mrs. Rodham-Clinton, and will be able to handle the Presidency much easier due to his intelligence. Her "experience" is not nearly what it is cracked up to be, but I am not about to call her a loser.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
140. your vile little missives and packets of turds don't exactly
recommend hilly to me, but I'm smarter than the likes of you. I understand the stakes and I'll vote for the dem candidate.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't this an old story? If not, IMO Joe Wilson must have been offered one sweet deal.
:(
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IrishBloodEngHeart Donating Member (815 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. I found this very unconvincing
It sounds like a press release from the Clinton campaign: 3am phone call, experience, Wright and Rezko, etc.

I am disappointed in Ambassador Wilson.

BTW- When was Joe Wilson at the white house at 3am for emergency calls? That's a very strange claim to make
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. You have to read the full thing.
Wilson spends a *lot* of time flogging his personal credentials, weakely endorses Clinton, and then attacks Obama.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Silly tool.
That is all.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama got the secret weapon. They call it "common sense". It's a hell of a thing.
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I've got common sense, too, but that doesn't qualify me for president
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. So why is Barack Obama not qualified?
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Being good at campaigning doesn't prepare you at all to run the country
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. On the other hand, having no national security cred, taking us into the wrong war
and not being able to run a campaign prepares you less to run the country. Although it might prepare people on what can be expected from you.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. neither does doing a photo op with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM by cryingshame
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. So he's a professional campaigner then, that's your point?
Here I thought he's done a lot of other things other than running for office.
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. How come you got swept away by a sweet-talker like that?
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. Are you stuck in gear or something? What's going on with your posts?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
63. How come you let a liar pull you
around by the nose?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. You just brag you have common sense..no one
with common sense carries water for a lying, scheming monster, who will stoop to anything.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. The friend of our enemy is our enemy.....
However "fuck foreign policy bullshit" is not a winning campaign slogan.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. He must owe the Clintons bigtime.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Joe Wilson crossed the line here
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:46 PM by maximusveritas
He can argue that Clinton is more qualified, but don't fucking tell me Obama would be "dangerous for the country". That's the kind of fearmongering bullshit I expect from right-wing nuts like Hannity and O'Reilly. Wilson is ruining his reputation just like Ferraro with his hatred of Obama.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
65. Seems anyone who carries water for the clintons ..
immediately starts losing brain cells.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #65
84. I find
that as the weeks go by, this is not discussion on this board.

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #84
121. Of course it's not discussion, because it's not...
pro-Clinton pap.
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
134. You guys are funny
It seems you guys can't refute it so unless you call whining is a method of debunking things.
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texasleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Can people please stop calling him "Ambassador?"
There is no rank of Ambassador, it is political.
The highest rank in the diplomatic corps is that of Minister.
Few career diplomats ever get appointed as Ambassadors.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. I USED to like Joe Wilson...he's now a patsy-cake fuckup for Hillary
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM by zulchzulu
Here's something for Joe Wilson and any of the other moolyaks who just don't get it:

Senator Barack Obama is on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations; Homeland Security; Veterans Affairs; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. He's gone on three major trips overseas as part of an official Senate delegation, meeting with U.S. generals, and/or foreign leaders.

He and Senator Lugar travelled to the former Soviet states to inspect the destruction of WMDs; he traveled to Iraq and met with U.S. generals, and also toured Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Palestinian territories; he visited various African countries, including Kenya (his father's homeland).

Some of the countries he has visited while Senator:

2005
Moscow
Kiev
Baku
Azerbaijan

2006
Qatar
Kuwait
Iraq
Jordan
Israel
South Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Kenya
Djibouti
Chad

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002595.php


Here is a list of some of those who worked with Bill Clinton who are now on Barack Obama's team:

For counterinsurgency strategy, Mr. Obama has Harvard University's Sarah Sewall, who worked in the Pentagon under President Clinton. Mr. Obama has Harvard University's Sarah Sewall, who worked in the Pentagon under President Clinton.

For overall security issues he leans on Mr. Clinton's former national security adviser, Anthony Lake.

What about fighting AIDS or boosting U.S. trade in Africa? For that and more, he has former Clinton administration diplomat Susan Rice.

(snip)

Mr. Ivo Daalder, who worked in the Clinton White House in the mid-1990s and is now at the Brookings Institution, describes the difference between Sens. Clinton and Obama as "the difference between what do we do about Iran and its nuclear program now versus how do we deal with nuclear proliferation writ large."

(snip)

Mr. Obama did get a well-timed boost recently from one of his party's foreign-policy eminences, Zbigniew Brzezinski. The 79-year-old former Carter national security adviser not only backed Mr. Obama but panned Mrs. Clinton's views as "very conventional" and merely a continuation of "what we had eight years ago."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118895877299317784.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


Here is a list of advisors on his campaign team and description (some are mentioned above):

Former Amb. Jeffrey Bader, President Clinton’s National Security Council Asia specialist and now head of Brookings’s China center, national security adviser

Mark Brzezinski, President Clinton’s National Security Council Southeast Europe specialist and now a partner at law firm McGuireWoods, national security adviser

Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s national security adviser and now a Center for Strategic and International Studies counselor and trustee and frequent guest on PBS’s NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, foreign policy adviser

Richard A. Clarke, President Clinton and President George W. Bush’s counterterrorism czar and now head of Good Harbor Consulting and an ABC News contributor, sometimes Obama adviser

Gregory B. Craig, State Department director of policy planning under President Clinton and now a partner at law firm Williams & Connolly, foreign policy adviser

Roger W. Cressey, former National Security Council counterterrorism staffer and now Good Harbor Consulting president and NBC News consultant, has advised Obama but says not exclusive

Ivo H. Daalder, National Security Council director for European affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Richard Danzig, President Clinton’s Navy secretary and now a Center for Strategic and International Analysis fellow, national security adviser

Philip H. Gordon, President Clinton’s National Security Council staffer for Europe and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Maj. Gen. J. (Jonathan) Scott Gration, a 32-year Air Force veteran and now CEO of Africa anti-poverty effort Millennium Villages, national security adviser and surrogate

Lawrence J. Korb, assistant secretary of defense from 1981-1985 and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, informal foreign policy adviser

W. Anthony Lake, President Clinton’s national security adviser and now a professor at Georgetown’s school of foreign service, foreign policy adviser

James M. Ludes, former defense and foreign policy adviser to Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and now executive director of the American Security Project, national security adviser

Robert Malley, President Clinton’s Middle East envoy and now International Crisis Group’s Middle East and North Africa program director, national security adviser

Gen. Merrill A. ("Tony") McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff and now a business consultant, national security adviser

Denis McDonough, Center for American Progress senior fellow and former policy adviser to then-Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, foreign policy coordinator

Susan E. Rice, President Clinton’s Africa specialist at the State Department and National Security Council and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Bruce O. Riedel, former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer for Near East and Asian affairs and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Dennis B. Ross, President Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and now a Washington Institute for Near East Policy fellow, Middle East adviser

Sarah Sewall, deputy assistant secretary of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance during President Clinton’s administration and now director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, national security adviser

Daniel B. Shapiro, National Security Council director for legislative affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a lobbyist with Timmons & Company, Middle East adviser

Mona Sutphen, former aide to President Clinton’s National Security adviser Samuel R. Berger and to United Nations ambassador Bill Richardson and now managing director of business consultancy Stonebridge, national security adviser

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/documents/the-war-over-the-wonks.html


Hey Joe, what are doing with that lack of evidence up your ass.



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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Yeah...it's time to throw "Ambassador Wilson" UNDER THE BUS because you
now don't agree with him? Just because he didn't give a :thumbsup: to YOUR CANDIDATE?

Why is that?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. FUCK JOE WILSON IF HE LIES LIKE A FUCKING REPUGLIFIED ASSWIPE
I proved that Obama is certainly prepared for national security and would LOVE to see Joe Wilson tell the people who are backing him that Obama is dangerous for this country.

HE IS AN ASSHOLE. PERIOD.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. How did
you prove ...........I proved that Obama is certainly prepared for national security and would LOVE to see Joe Wilson tell the people who are backing him that Obama is dangerous for this country.


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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:05 PM
Original message
Can you READ? Do you need help? WTF?
Here's a list for Joe to call to tell them they are some of Obama's "coterie" of hapless foreign policy "analysts":

Former Amb. Jeffrey Bader, President Clinton’s National Security Council Asia specialist and now head of Brookings’s China center, national security adviser

Mark Brzezinski, President Clinton’s National Security Council Southeast Europe specialist and now a partner at law firm McGuireWoods, national security adviser

Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s national security adviser and now a Center for Strategic and International Studies counselor and trustee and frequent guest on PBS’s NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, foreign policy adviser

Richard A. Clarke, President Clinton and President George W. Bush’s counterterrorism czar and now head of Good Harbor Consulting and an ABC News contributor, sometimes Obama adviser

Gregory B. Craig, State Department director of policy planning under President Clinton and now a partner at law firm Williams & Connolly, foreign policy adviser

Roger W. Cressey, former National Security Council counterterrorism staffer and now Good Harbor Consulting president and NBC News consultant, has advised Obama but says not exclusive

Ivo H. Daalder, National Security Council director for European affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Richard Danzig, President Clinton’s Navy secretary and now a Center for Strategic and International Analysis fellow, national security adviser

Philip H. Gordon, President Clinton’s National Security Council staffer for Europe and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Maj. Gen. J. (Jonathan) Scott Gration, a 32-year Air Force veteran and now CEO of Africa anti-poverty effort Millennium Villages, national security adviser and surrogate

Lawrence J. Korb, assistant secretary of defense from 1981-1985 and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, informal foreign policy adviser

W. Anthony Lake, President Clinton’s national security adviser and now a professor at Georgetown’s school of foreign service, foreign policy adviser

James M. Ludes, former defense and foreign policy adviser to Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and now executive director of the American Security Project, national security adviser

Robert Malley, President Clinton’s Middle East envoy and now International Crisis Group’s Middle East and North Africa program director, national security adviser

Gen. Merrill A. ("Tony") McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff and now a business consultant, national security adviser

Denis McDonough, Center for American Progress senior fellow and former policy adviser to then-Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, foreign policy coordinator

Susan E. Rice, President Clinton’s Africa specialist at the State Department and National Security Council and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Bruce O. Riedel, former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer for Near East and Asian affairs and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Dennis B. Ross, President Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and now a Washington Institute for Near East Policy fellow, Middle East adviser

Sarah Sewall, deputy assistant secretary of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance during President Clinton’s administration and now director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, national security adviser

Daniel B. Shapiro, National Security Council director for legislative affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a lobbyist with Timmons & Company, Middle East adviser

Mona Sutphen, former aide to President Clinton’s National Security adviser Samuel R. Berger and to United Nations ambassador Bill Richardson and now managing director of business consultancy Stonebridge, national security adviser

My response also points out Obama's other foreign policy cred. Tell Joe that apparently it's not good enough.

:puke:



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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
98. Sadly it's YOUR READING Comprehension that needs Help...ASAP...see post #28!
Ugh...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. I........
can't 'talk" with that poster. It is just too excited. thanks.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #98
127. So will Joe Wilson tell Richard Clarke and others they are "a coterie" of nonsensical oafs?
Obama HAS foreign policy cred. He also wasn't a SUCKER for Bush's wars. He has a group of people working with him with much bigger foreign policy creds than Joe Wilson could ever have.

Joe Wilson IS A LIAR and a PUSSY for the CLINTON LIARS when he plays the FEAR CARD that only a REPUBLICAN is good at.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
97. What are you talking about? Joe Wilson lies...you mean Yellow Cake in Niger?
Are you some damned Freeper over hear spewing this crap about Wilson Lying? Haven't we already been through it with you people? Wilson tried to keep us from Invading Iraq and his WIFE WAS OUTED as a CIA AGENT and his reputation Ruined. Bushie Buddy Scooter Libby was tried and convicted and the Bushie's GOT HIM OFF! His sentence was COMMUTED for NO REASON except that Libby was defended by friends of Tucker Carlson (MSNBC TALKING HEAD) and Dan Abrams (MSNBC) father Floyd.

Sheesh...do you ever read or do any research? Haven't you been around DU for long enough to at least "absorb" through your pores some INFORMATION that doesn't come from "Limpballs or FAUX?" :shrug:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. If not for Joe Wilson, Bush-Cheney might still be able to pretend that the war in Iraq
was legitimate. In that case, they might have been able to pull the same tricks to get us into Iran. Joe Wilson had the bravery to speak out. He and his wife became the targets of a WH smear campaign. They persevered and are part of the reason the Dems regained control of Congress in 2006.

Joe Wilson has done more for this country than Hillary and Obama combined.

And now you defame him because he does not support your candidate, even though he is only one vote out of many.

:cry:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Joe Wilson is the one LYING here... he is an asshole...that's all you need to know
I've MET Joe Wilson. I have talked to him when he was working with the Kerry campaign in Madison.

I just can't believe that he is willing to be a pussy for the Clintons and lie like Bill. It is TRAGIC.

He can go fuck himself as far as I'm concerned. He knows he's LYING.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
69.  And your language is despicable. He is a good Democrat who has worked
a lifetime for this country.

Say what you will about his policies. but no need to be so crude!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
81. I don't give a rat's ass for a fucking liar who will lie like Bill Clinton
Joe Wilson, a person who I USED to respect and met and talked about politics with a few years ago, is nothing more thana a LYING SELLOUT. He has to know he's lying.

If Joe Wilson takes back the lies he is saying about Obama, I'd be glad to see him for what I THOUGHT he was.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #54
99. YOU worked on the KERRY CAMPAIGN! JEEBUS...No WONDER HE LOST!
AYYYYYYYYYYY:banghead:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. ha ha good one
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
105. Zulch ....you get away with so much here on DU...can I do this?
:puke: I think you will appreciate the effort I made.. I could have put you on IGNORE...but I prefer to do what I just did after listening to you through several posts and trying to "engage you" in "dialog"

There are some folks that neither "Ignore" nor "Silence" will get through to...so one has to resort to one's TRUE FEELINGS in exasperation. I hope you will understand.

If you didn't ...here's another :puke:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #105
130. Can you forward this list of people to Joe Wilson and ask him why he thinks he's better than them
These are just some of the people that are working with Barack Obama on foreign policy and national security matters. Can you get Joe Wilson's pussy ass to tell them that they have no idea what they are talking about, please:

  • Former Amb. Jeffrey Bader, President Clinton’s National Security Council Asia specialist and now head of Brookings’s China center, national security adviser

  • Mark Brzezinski, President Clinton’s National Security Council Southeast Europe specialist and now a partner at law firm McGuireWoods, national security adviser

  • Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s national security adviser and now a Center for Strategic and International Studies counselor and trustee and frequent guest on PBS’s NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, foreign policy adviser

  • Richard A. Clarke, President Clinton and President George W. Bush’s counterterrorism czar and now head of Good Harbor Consulting and an ABC News contributor, sometimes Obama adviser

  • Gregory B. Craig, State Department director of policy planning under President Clinton and now a partner at law firm Williams & Connolly, foreign policy adviser

  • Roger W. Cressey, former National Security Council counterterrorism staffer and now Good Harbor Consulting president and NBC News consultant, has advised Obama but says not exclusive

  • Ivo H. Daalder, National Security Council director for European affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

  • Richard Danzig, President Clinton’s Navy secretary and now a Center for Strategic and International Analysis fellow, national security adviser

  • Philip H. Gordon, President Clinton’s National Security Council staffer for Europe and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

  • Maj. Gen. J. (Jonathan) Scott Gration, a 32-year Air Force veteran and now CEO of Africa anti-poverty effort Millennium Villages, national security adviser and surrogate

  • Lawrence J. Korb, assistant secretary of defense from 1981-1985 and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, informal foreign policy adviser

  • W. Anthony Lake, President Clinton’s national security adviser and now a professor at Georgetown’s school of foreign service, foreign policy adviser

  • James M. Ludes, former defense and foreign policy adviser to Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and now executive director of the American Security Project, national security adviser

  • Robert Malley, President Clinton’s Middle East envoy and now International Crisis Group’s Middle East and North Africa program director, national security adviser

  • Gen. Merrill A. ("Tony") McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff and now a business consultant, national security adviser

  • Denis McDonough, Center for American Progress senior fellow and former policy adviser to then-Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, foreign policy coordinator

  • Susan E. Rice, President Clinton’s Africa specialist at the State Department and National Security Council and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

  • Bruce O. Riedel, former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer for Near East and Asian affairs and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

  • Dennis B. Ross, President Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and now a Washington Institute for Near East Policy fellow, Middle East adviser

  • Sarah Sewall, deputy assistant secretary of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance during President Clinton’s administration and now director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, national security adviser

  • Daniel B. Shapiro, National Security Council director for legislative affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a lobbyist with Timmons & Company, Middle East adviser

  • Mona Sutphen, former aide to President Clinton’s National Security adviser Samuel R. Berger and to United Nations ambassador Bill Richardson and now managing director of business consultancy Stonebridge, national security adviser


Can Joe Wilson tell these people that he's the Fucking Genius and they are Shit... I'd like to see that.



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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
57. That's revisionist history
There was a ton of evidence that Bush-Cheney lied about their Niger claims before Wilson ever spoke out. He just confirmed it. In fact, he had kept quiet about it after Bush made the initial claim in his State of the Union. And Wilson admits he believed their other evidence for war and supported the war initially.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
74. We should all be appreciative of JW's courage in
telling this administration what it DIDN'T want to hear. For that, I hold him in high esteem.

He's chosen to back HRC and a statement like this is part of the campaign, although I think it wasn't right of him to suggest that having Obama in the Oval Office could be a danger to our country's safety. He could have made his points without using the fear tactic.


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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
68. Oh, I think they get it...they just wanna smear 'cause
they know hilary's made of fucking straw so they gotta smear Obama.

Too bad about joe wilson and the rest of 'em who sold mouths for a buck.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well maybe Joe is part of a planned Clinton counter-offensive against McCain
Plamegate was disgraceful, and would be quite the issue to run against McCain.

I'll give Joe a break on this one, although I completely disagree with him.

Whatever Democrat we win the Whitehouse with, Plamegate is not over by any means.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Obama's public position on withdrawal from Iraq is not really his true position"
Everyone claims it's the "monster" remark, but as I stated on DU earlier this week, it's because Power gave away Obama's game on Iraq that she resigned. If she had stayed on, she would have been questioned relentlessly to clarify his position.

Thank you, Joe Wilson.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. It's not a 'game'. Who knows what the situation will be 10 months from
now? Don't differing circumstances require a fluid opinion? I have every faith that Obama will try to end this illegal occupation ASAP.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
62. Then let him be straightforward about it, as well as Power revealing it.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:59 PM by Straight Shooter
We may be seeing a conflagration of epic proportions in the Middle East, or we may see a positive turning point, at which time the best decision can be made. What's so hard for a politician, any politician, to come right out and say that?

edit typo
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. His talking point was 16 months; I don't know if that's optimistic
or pesimistic, but he is intent on ending it. How can anyone say what they don't know? McCain's covered; 100 years?!
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
85. Well, I think McCain's 100-year gaffe is being roundly ridiculed everywhere.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 10:11 PM by Straight Shooter
Even he seems to be distancing himself from it a bit, but only a bit.

I think other than McCain holding onto it like it's the brass ring to the White House, everyone else is intent on ending the occupation of Iraq.

edit: by "everyone else" I'm excluding neocons, et al.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Agreed. Our Dems have the right idea thankfully! nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
101. You hope so? "Fluid Opinion?" Much benefit of doubt you give you your candidate. n/t
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Joe Wilson was a Republican
a decent Republican, but none the less a Republican
even if he did change parties, he's still a Republican at heart.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Was he really a Republican? I know he's said he's a centrist
but I thought he's always been a Democrat or at least independent.
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chocome Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. He is right - CNN POll: 60 % SAY OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT EXPERIENCE TO BE PRESIDENT
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/poll.quality/

Obama is also the only candidate who a majority of Americans -- roughly 60 percent -- say does not have the right experience to be president, the poll showed
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Clinton.News.Network. Nuff said. nt
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
55. Cable News Network owned by Time-Warner. Not by the Clintons.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. I challenge someone to define "THE RIGHT EXPERIENCE"
And while they're at it, what it means to have "Crossed the CiC threshold."

:wtf:

Sounds like people are swallowing the MSM and Clinton Kool-Aid...
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:12 PM
Original message
I'm sure Obama can hold his pinky out and tinkle teacups like Hillary if he wants to
That's her record in foreign policy while First Lady. As Senator, she voted for a trillion dollar war with a million dead and a future war that will turn the Middle East inside out.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. hilary's shallow mouth is dangerous for our country..
but, thanks for your input, joe wilson. Anybody trying to push hilary on us leaves something to be desired.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. Well if he's right then we'd be equally fucked with Hillary
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:53 PM by ResetButton
Because her vast foreign policy experience is a fucking myth. Joe Shillson can STFU.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Ooh I'm afraid
The terrorists are gunna get me under an Obama admin, just like John Kerry. Oooooooohhhhhhhh.... Scary!!!!

:scared:
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. One question for Joe Wilson
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:53 PM by lapfog_1
Knowing what you know about Iraq and WMDs...

should we have invaded Iraq?

Which candidate of the three that are left was against invading Iraq?

Oh... ok, thought so.

Buh-bye Joe.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Was it the one who said he didn't know what he would do
regarding that vote? Barack Obama?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. Excellent! nt
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
39. Now Obama is dangerous and doesn't love the country like McCain and Hillary
Talking Points have been in play I see.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. I Wonder If Wilson Is Going To Vote For McSame Then, Because Hillary Is Not Going To Be Our Nominee
Scare tactics aren't going to change that.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is the truth
And the Oompas refuse to see it for what it is. There's no way Obama can overcome this hill to moderates or Rethugs.
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
56. Joe Wilson is making a compelling argument for John McCain.
All matters pertaining to elected experience and national security experience favor John McCain.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #56
71. And corruption! Don't forget corruption.
He has a lot of experience with that, too. Ask Don Siegelman.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
79. Yes, and thank our lucky stars McCain isn't 20 years younger and mentally sharp.
The GOP would be slobbering all over him with big wet puppy kisses.
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
116. And if he was ten years younger and female
he could lose eleven primaries in a row and still consider himself somehow more electable than the guy he lost to.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
67. Since Richardson has endorsed him Obama needs to announce him as SOS.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 10:05 PM by McCamy Taylor
This will settle the foreign policy problem.

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. Wilson is a political hack and he owes Obama an apology.
He is only disgracing himself with this. It isn't persuasive, and Hillary has lost.

Perhaps Joe has big plans about rejoining the Republican Party and supporting McCain, and this is just the way he is going about laying the groundwork for the move.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. This is a free country. People can say whatever they want.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. too bad. BO owes lots of apologies. But he just makes excuses for his behavior
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. I don't think Joe ever left the Republican party.
Last I heard he was a lifelong Republican. I never held that against him, I was glad to see him standing against Bush. But this is a bit much.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
76. When all else fails, use repug talking points.
This will get her far against McCain. Unless she does the 60's democrat thing and tries to out-hawk him.
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
80. WOW a HillBot that didnt quote hannity
ACTUALLY I thought his arguement was well thought ought, just because he doesnt have the experience doesnt mean he cant do it. Look at bush 2 did a decent job of trying to talk jr. out of the war. People just dont vote for that though, reagan didnt have shit and people voted for him.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #80
112. If ....
you folks did not contanstly diss us by calling us Hilbots. you might be a little more "likable"


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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
82. Poor Joe. nt
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
86. Obama was spot on from the start.. nuf said.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
87. As I stated on Feb 14, 2008.... and I stand by it
Why Joe Wilson can go screw himself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4592724

He's not a politician. He has been a foreign service worker. His political positions should remain as neutral as possible. Were it not for his wife being outed by Dick Cheney no one would know who the hell he is. For him to write editorials endorsing a candidate in a primary is completely out of line.

15 minutes are up, Joe. Take a break.

FYI - I have no problem whatsoever with many democrats that I respect supporting Hillary.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. I have no problem with him writing or speaking.
And I have no problem knowing he's wrong.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. I have to agree with you. Wilson jumped the shark, whatever
that means, but I'm over him, and Larry Johnson, not for being partisan, but for being so nasty while doing it.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Larry Johnson has totally lost it. Are these people being drugged and dragged into
the Clinton House of Horrors?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #93
103. "...but for being so nasty while doing it. "
You've described Obama supporters here to a tee!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. ...
:hi: I'll agree to disagree with you.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Are they .... DEAD TO YOU?!!

Lots of former DU heros under the BO bus, too.


just sayin ...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. No one is 'dead' to me, not even some DUers I don't agree with. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Hey...I'm not for Clinton or Obama and there's more "dead to me" than Johnson
or Joe Wilson. There's a whole segment of Democrats who've been fighting since late 90's and through the Stolen Election of 2000 who have been left as "road kill" with the Obama Messiah stuff.

What's the party going to do without us? We are here...we are Progressive and we have fought and marched and done all we could to help build the NETROOTS...but we are "the forgotten" who folks here and there on the so called "Liberal Netroots" now laugh at and cat call and say..."You Don't BELONG HERE."

We are tough...we are hardened we've been here with you all. We aren't going away no matter how many times you "spin and try to roll that bus over us." We've learned through this...when everyone did a 360 degree on us..

We will fall back...but we will be seen and heard down the road...when this has crashed an burned.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
92. Ms Hillary has never served on National Security Council or in the Situation room
what makes her think she can do better? Just because she was in the same house as her husband doesn't mean that she has had any experience in national security?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #92
109. Yeah ...she was just Laura Bush....doing pine cones for Texas on the WH Christmas Tree...
:D OOPS...I forgot her "Book Groups." The ones she has once a year.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
95. Pathetic Obamoid pea shots at Wilson.
They have no shame. They stand for shit.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
113. Shallow credentials............how true!!!
What other kind of credentials could he have with his razor thin experience?
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
118. Yes, Joe, you and Hillary and Bill have all made it clear...
that the NATIONAL SECURITY CREDENTIALS of McCain and Bush and, hell, practically ANY Republican are preferable to the black man's. Thanks for your VALUABLE input. Now please, go rot in hell.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
119. I have to respectfully disagree with Joe Wilson...
Barack Obama is not like George W Bush. He will listen to advice. He is an intelligent leader. He will knowledgeable people in positions of power in his Administration. His credentials will be a vast improvement over what we now have or what we might have with a Clinton Administration, imo.
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
122. let's compare
2004 - Dick Cheney - Vote for Kerry and you will die
2008 - Joe Wilson - Vote for Obama and you will die.

Is there a difference?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #122
133. I think Bill and Joe are fighting over who wants to suck McCain's dick first
Utter complete turncoat assholes...
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
124. I'm glad Joe Wilson took time away from his luxurious Santa Fe retirement to write this tripe
so I can proclaim how fucking stupid it is. Go back home, Joe.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
128. Voice of experience
There are few who can make this kind of endorsement with as much background and experience. It carries a lot of weight.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
131. Joe Wilson's pussy ass needs to tell these people they are also "dangerous for the country"
These are just some of the people that are working with Barack Obama on foreign policy and national security matters. Can you get Joe Wilson's pussy ass to tell them that they have no idea what they are talking about, please:

  • Former Amb. Jeffrey Bader, President Clinton’s National Security Council Asia specialist and now head of Brookings’s China center, national security adviser

  • Mark Brzezinski, President Clinton’s National Security Council Southeast Europe specialist and now a partner at law firm McGuireWoods, national security adviser

  • Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s national security adviser and now a Center for Strategic and International Studies counselor and trustee and frequent guest on PBS’s NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, foreign policy adviser

  • Richard A. Clarke, President Clinton and President George W. Bush’s counterterrorism czar and now head of Good Harbor Consulting and an ABC News contributor, sometimes Obama adviser

  • Gregory B. Craig, State Department director of policy planning under President Clinton and now a partner at law firm Williams & Connolly, foreign policy adviser

  • Roger W. Cressey, former National Security Council counterterrorism staffer and now Good Harbor Consulting president and NBC News consultant, has advised Obama but says not exclusive

  • Ivo H. Daalder, National Security Council director for European affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

  • Richard Danzig, President Clinton’s Navy secretary and now a Center for Strategic and International Analysis fellow, national security adviser

  • Philip H. Gordon, President Clinton’s National Security Council staffer for Europe and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

  • Maj. Gen. J. (Jonathan) Scott Gration, a 32-year Air Force veteran and now CEO of Africa anti-poverty effort Millennium Villages, national security adviser and surrogate

  • Lawrence J. Korb, assistant secretary of defense from 1981-1985 and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, informal foreign policy adviser

  • W. Anthony Lake, President Clinton’s national security adviser and now a professor at Georgetown’s school of foreign service, foreign policy adviser

  • James M. Ludes, former defense and foreign policy adviser to Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and now executive director of the American Security Project, national security adviser

  • Robert Malley, President Clinton’s Middle East envoy and now International Crisis Group’s Middle East and North Africa program director, national security adviser

  • Gen. Merrill A. ("Tony") McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff and now a business consultant, national security adviser

  • Denis McDonough, Center for American Progress senior fellow and former policy adviser to then-Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, foreign policy coordinator

  • Susan E. Rice, President Clinton’s Africa specialist at the State Department and National Security Council and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

  • Bruce O. Riedel, former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer for Near East and Asian affairs and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

  • Dennis B. Ross, President Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and now a Washington Institute for Near East Policy fellow, Middle East adviser

  • Sarah Sewall, deputy assistant secretary of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance during President Clinton’s administration and now director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, national security adviser

  • Daniel B. Shapiro, National Security Council director for legislative affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a lobbyist with Timmons & Company, Middle East adviser

  • Mona Sutphen, former aide to President Clinton’s National Security adviser Samuel R. Berger and to United Nations ambassador Bill Richardson and now managing director of business consultancy Stonebridge, national security adviser


Can Joe Wilson tell these people that he's the Fucking Genius and they are Shit... I'd like to see that.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #131
137. ooooh, hillary supporters are 'pussies; ' bet you can't wait to suck O's big uh.. non-pussy... maybe
he'll wear a tight macho flight suit for you.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
135. "enormous national security crises that President Bush will leave"
President Bush, son of foreign affairs expert George Sr? The one who surrounded himself with Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc - all steeped in foreign affairs experience? That President Bush? Sorry Joe, but it seems experience isn't worth much.

Wilson pooh-poohs Obama's judgment - one of the few (along with Wilson himself) who denounced the Iraq war - because of the oh-so-weighty issues of associating with a pastor and Rezko... in his very first sentence. That tells me a lot.

Power was forced to resign because of the monster remark, not for clarifying that Obama would not withdraw troops imprudently! And how did that so-called "gaffe" show "cynicism about national security"? Seems to me it shows just the opposite.

"Which of his shifting coterie of volatile advisers would he turn to... will it be those advisers who remained silent until politically convenient -- several years and several thousand lives after the shock and awe invasion, conquest and disastrous occupation of Iraq?"

"Those who remained silent until politically convenient" -- like Hillary?

"several thousand lives after...disastrous occupation of Iraq" -- the one Hillary voted for, parroting Bush's WMD claims on the Senate floor?

My opinion of Joe Wilson just took a HUGE nosedive. This article is unworthy of him.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
136. Joe's right; Obamaniacs never even heard of O a year ago, and now they are absolutely certain that h
he is the freaking second coming and absolutely certain that he *must* be president. these people are not thinking rationally. Hillary is *way* more qualified than obama.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #136
142. Really? "Way" more qualified how?
So far, no Hillary supporter has been able to give me any examples of her foreign policy / national security experience that makes her so qualified?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
139. Joe Wilson is entitled to his opinion
and to be a Clinton attack dog, and I'm entitled to disagree with him and his role in Camp Clinton. And sadly, he looks desperate- like all of Camp Clinton. What a shambles.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
141. Almost as shallow as Hillary Clinton's
Minus the dodging of sniper fire.

:eyes:

"the experience is real, too." Yeah... now we've gotten to see just how "real" that "experience" actually is.

Look, in all seriousness...

Both the candidates are already qualified to be president. But Hillary has presented herself as a foreign policy expert with years of national security experience and is having to eat it now that more and more those claims are coming up empty.

The truth of the matter is most of the time candidates for president don't have a lot of experience in the national Executive Branch - unless they're running for a second term. What is important is which candidate you feel has better judgment, better personal integrity and a better vision (by vision I mean a personal philosophy - how do they operate, what are their principles, what are some of the attributes of their character and values, etc.) to "answer that phone."

For me, is especially that last one - vision - where Clinton is sorely lacking. Her personal philosophy exhibited during this campaign has been to put her personal ego above all other concerns. Her scorched earth philosophy of "anything goes" even lies, racism, dirty tricks, rule changing and personal smears is tragic, and gives me grave, grave concerns about her qualification to lead this country.

Her judgment has already been shown to be questionable when it matters the most, influenced I think more by public opinion and what would look best for her and her presidential aims rather than what was truthful or best for the country - I refer of course to her vote for the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq of 2002.

In short there is nothing about Hillary Clinton's experience in forieng policy that stands out from Obama's. In my opinion, there are many many things about Hillary's judgment and character that are horribly lacking, while at the same time there are many things about Obama's judgement and character that I find to be precisely what we need in a President.

Now, those are very critical things to say about Hillary for sure. And obviously others disagree. I believe that reasonable people can disagree about this, and people who support Hillary are not less than. But I do have strong feelings about these issues.
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
143. Joe Wilson is a man I respect and whose opinion I value
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 06:15 AM by Freedom Train
It seems to me that not long ago this sentiment was shared by most if not all Democrats. Why then are suddenly half of you writing him off as a nobody and hurling epithets at him just because he doesn't support your candidate? It's petty and pathetic. One would think you were grassroots for Cheney/Libby '08 and not for Obama.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #143
144. I'll Take A Lie Detector Test
Joe Wilson was a hero on this board...He was unanimoulsy lauded !!! Now, that's he supporting Hillary he's no good....Bill Clinton was a hero on this board to about eighty percent of DUers...I would be lying if I said he was universally applauded but he was well liked here...Now he's ano good either ...

We are going to get to the point, like in the old Soviet Union, that they air brushed leaders out of official photographs once they fell out of favor...

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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
145. You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse Joe. No Secretary of State job for you.
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Mezzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
146. Joe Wilson has been a patriot from the start.
He speaks truth to power; now it looks like he speaks truth to "ponies"!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
147. Hmm, I suppose that Wilson thought that the following had horrible National Security credentials
People like TR, FDR, JFK, Jimmy Carter, and oh yeah, Bill Clinton:eyes:

Wilson's talking out his ass, and we really shouldn't forget that this man is an old school 'Pug. Hell, he even donated money to the Bush campaign back in '00.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
148. JOE WILSON: vote McCain.
Thanks Joe, for your efforts in this regard.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
149. And Bill Clinton's "shallow credentials" were just fine in 1992?
Or is it because of "terror" now that his credentials that he had in 92 just won't do in 2008? The fear of terra lives on, now in Democrats and so called liberals. Makes me sick. Did Bill Clinton not rely on the experience of others? I stood up for him when people in the military attacked him. I voted for him in 1996 when I was all of 20 years old. I guess I was dumb and naive as his foreign policy credentials were nothing compared with Bob Dole. Clintons are showing that once again they will do anything to win.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
150. Joe And Valerie Wilson Were ATTACKED By bu$hco For Telling The TRUTH
And Joe is telling the truth again, and by the looks of things, getting attacked for it.
I really wonder what will happen to DU after the primary and GE, whatever the result.
It doesn't look good.
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Cass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
151. The people here shitting all over Joe Wilson are pathetic jerks.
This man risked an awful lot by speaking up against this war. You know it and I know it. The insults hurled at Joe Wilson in this thread are disgusting and disgraceful.

This willingness by Obama supporters to throw him under the bus because he endorses someone other than St. Barak is juvenile, ignorant, and asinine. I dare any one of you loudmouth idiots to exhibit one iota of the bravery and guts Joe Wilson and his wife have exhibited in their service to this country. And FYI, I include Valerie in this because she stood on stage with Hillary at a campaign rally the other day in Pennsylvania.

There is absolutely no reason to spew venom and bile at good people because they support someone other than Obama, especially good people like the Wilsons. Grow up already.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
152. I admire Joe Wilson for the courage he showed in standing up to BushCo.
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 11:56 AM by ocelot
He is, of course, entitled to his opinion about who ought to be president. While I don't share that opinion -- and I am a bit surprised he thought it necessary to disparage Obama in order to endorse Clinton (whose foreign policy credentials are just as thin) -- I still think highly of Wilson and I see no reason to trash him just because he decided to support a candidate I don't support. There has been way too much of that around here lately. Keith Olbermann, for example, used to be DU's media hero but now he is getting all kinds of hate. We all need to put on our big boy/girl pants and recognize that good, decent, honest people can disagree with us and we don't have to take it as a mortal insult.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
153. A smarter man would have sent Obama an APPLICATION for a Job,
rather than publish this!
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