When I saw the photo of Bill Clinton and Rev. Wright....

[noel711]

at the White House Prayer Breakfast, shaking hands,
I realized how far this campaign has fallen.

Like Judas, the Clintons betrayed themselves, and the campaign
of their opponant Barack Obama.And betrayed the country too...

When the Wright controversy hit the airwaves, they could have stepped
up to the plate, and boldly told the media, and the country, that
they knew REv. Wright, and these tapes were unfair because they
minimized his ministry, and were taken out of context.

But instead, from the Clintons....*crickets*.

How can you trust people when they won't do the best thing for the
nation?

And please do not throw stuff at me about how the Obama camp is
saying this and that; it isn't about retribution politics,
its about doing the right thing.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. LOL

This is just like the one photo of Rezko with the Clintons from 15 years ago - you guys think it makes everything even.

Nobody has claimed that Wright is wrong in everything he's said. That claim is an Obama fan fantasy.

And Wright isn't Bill Clinton's mentor, and Bill doesn't have a close 20 year relationship with him.

[Nitrogenica]

25. Still the whole smear on Obama is parthetic, and way too reminicent of

the Summer of 2004 when we were all defending Kerry against a series of childish arguments.

And that's just what Barack is dealing with now, a smear that's completely immature and childish.

[buff2]

28. parthetic?

:rofl:

[olkaz]

48. Classy.

Attacking the spelling error. A tried and true strategy.

I bet you win lots of arguments at work.

[democrattotheend]

37. Reminds me of earlier in 2004, when they kept playing the "Dean Scream" over and over

Which is one of the reasons I am so determined not to let Obama go down the same way.

[Kittycat]

27. Ah - but he did feel the need to cry out to the good Rev about his sins, and ask forgiveness.

Oh, and they invited him to attend. :shrug:

[democrattotheend]

35. You misunderstood the OP

The Rezko photo might have been designed to play "gotcha", but in this case, the point whoever released the photo was making was that Wright was a well-respected minister, not some crazy hatemonger the way he has been portrayed on TV. The Clintons obviously knew that, having invited Wright to this prayer breakfast. So they could have come out and said that. Even John McCain had the decency to say that he knows Obama and doesn't believe Obama shares any of the sentiments expressed in the clips of Wright that have been playing on the news.

[leftynyc]

77. That's two different issues

I don't believe Sen Obama shares any of ideas shown over and over on TV. He has already said so many times. That doesn't mean the Rev Wright isn't batshit crazy.

[leftynyc]

78. Sorry dupe

[KittyWampus]

84. The issue is Character Assassination of a good man who's done good work all his life.

You and Hillary and her campaign choose to not just stand by public ally, but to USE that character assassination behind the scenes for political advantage.

Imagine if the Clintons had the integrity and LEADERSHIP to have used what was happening?

They would have gained in stature.

[MonkeyFunk]

93. I know

and after you guys have been oh-so-nice to Senator Clinton, too. We're bad, bad people.

[EFerrari]

88. And that's too bad because clearly Clinton needed and needs a mentor

with a strong moral compass and an appreciation of community.

[MonkeyFunk]

94. I disagree

and I think cheap shots like that are shitty.

[Why Syzygy]

2. It's Hillary's style to betray. Of course she has betrayed our nation.

What do you think she would do with more power? It chills one to consider.

[DrDan]

10. why don't you enlighten us . . .

[Why Syzygy]

43. Martial Law. Same plan as the other neo-cons. duh

She wouldn't hesitate to use the state powers Bush has built up and will be handing off in less than a year.

[DrDan]

50. what has she done to suggest she would go that far . . .

[Why Syzygy]

97. Pictures say it best.

[DrDan]

99. oh good heavens

at least I now know you aren't serious

I am getting so gullible any more - too much time on GDP

[Why Syzygy]

106. Anyone who votes with the neo-cons will continue to act like a neo-con. I'm absolutely serious.

Hopefully we will never have to find out.

[buff2]

3. Straight from the horse's mouth

Obama’s Pastor Celebrates 9/11 (explicit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhl-endvco

Obama’s Racially-Divisive Pastor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbUBTlmAiA

Obama Disrespecting U.S. Flag and Anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QCkgg5Kjo

The Audacity of Barack Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwjnT4eJJvs

The Audacity of Barack Obama 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeC8BE-2T_k

Is Obama Wright? - Pastor Wright & Senator Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72B3tUAqpo4

Obama’s Pastor - 9/11 Fault of Israel Association

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnI431s1r6s

[high density]

7. I think you're on the wrong forum, dude(tte)

:puke:

[buff2]

11. The truth hurts,eh?

Get over it.

[high density]

14. Truth?

Your actions are similar to that of Sean Hannity.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[high density]

21. You're the one acting like Sean Hannity

So you calling me an asswipe I guess is a badge of honor.

[buff2]

26. If the shoe fits......

[high density]

Yes, Sean Hannity's shoes seem to fit you very well

Maybe you can fill in for him when he's on vacation or something. You seem to have his methodology down pat.

[buff2]

34. LOL!

Love that NOBAMA logic.

[Cheap_Trick]

96. as opposed to hill-billy logic?

riiiight

[rateyes]

56. Why keep having a conversation with "ignored?"

[high density]

66. Believe me, she's ignored now

My bad.

[Nitrogenica]

31. Get over it? What is this freeperville? Ignore:engage.

Sorry

[rocktivity]

41. As long as we're on the subject of truth

If Wright is so awful that he makes Obama less electable than Hillary, why was he invited to her husband's White House, AND WHY DID THEY COVER IT UP?

:headbang:
rocknation

[buff2]

42. They didn't know he was a racist bigot

They trusted too many people and the people they trusted have turned into backstabbers.

[rocktivity]

95. Someone in the Hillary camp should have remembered that they'd invited Wright to the White House,

and that there were at least 106 other witnesses to the event. Now it looks like they were covering something up, and Hillary's case against Obama on the grounds of his relationship with Wright is now dead in the water. It's possible that this cost her Bill Richardson's endorsement.

:headbang:
rocknation

[oasis]

75. On how many occasions was Bill Clinton subjected to Wright's hatespeak?

The answer to your question lies therein.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

65. you should have said straight from the asses butt

more fitting.

[Nitrogenica]

29. Your links are all childish bullshit.

Sorry.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

64. screw you - and he was good enough for Clenis

so as a ugly pimply hippocrit, Clenis forgot those who were kind to him.

[Seeker30]

4. Obama campaign is reminding me more and more of the Bush admin

[Drachasor]

67. How? Because off the top of my head I can easily think of several massive, massive differences

The Obama campaign can admit when they make mistakes. They are more open about information and in general desire a more open Government. Obama also has a genuine desire to tell the truth to the American people, as his "More Perfect Union" speech showed -- he wrote that himself and didn't have it manufactured by speech writers and political analysts.

[madaboutharry]

5. I have more respect for Mike Huckabee, who

did step up to the plate the other day. What is wrong with the Clintons? Why was this such a difficult call for them? You are right, Sen. Clinton should have stepped forward. What is more disturbing is the attempt to use the Rev. Wright controversy to sway Superdelegates.

[polmaven]

17. Well, for starters,

Rev. Wright did not make a personal attack on Governor Huckabee.

[Drachasor]

68. Honestly, I hardly think what Wright said was a personal attack

He didn't say good things about her, but he was really just saying Obama could appreciate the plight of African Americans better. Agree or disagree, that's not really an attack. (Now I think he was wrong with some of his points, because certainly a woman has to work harder to gain recognition, but to say that is an attack is a bit much).

[0007]

6. Mark sez it best - I also agree with your analogy

< h3>Justice

The rain ...falls upon the just and the unjust alike; a thing which would not happen if I were superintending the rain's affairs. No, I would rain softly and sweetly on the just, but if I caught a sample of the unjust outdoors I would drown him.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

[DrDan]

8. are you suggesting this handshake is equivalant to 20 years of church attendance?

wow

I think there are serious issues in the charges being made . . . but this seems to be pushing the limits of reality . . .

[uponit7771]

12. No, the Clintons KNEW him and said nothing about his character

[buff2]

13. Linking that moron to the Clinton's ain't gonna work

He is NOBAMA'S mess.Let him clean it up.

[uponit7771]

18. She threw wright under the bus with silence instead of defending his character...she's doesn't show.

...the type of character I would want to work with.

She's a snake honestly

[buff2]

22. Well,

Obama is a snake oil salesman. What kind of Character is THAT?

[slinkerwink]

30. exactly

[Justyce]

9. I'm sorry but one photo at one breakfast does not

give them any insight into his usual ministry habits, unlike Obama's 20 years and close ties with the man. It's not their place to step in and defend this -- it's Obama's mess and his place to take care of it. This has been between Obama and the media and has nothing to do with HRC.

[peace13]

19. Regardless of the fact that the Clintons invited the man,

this evil America hater to the WH. Go figure.

[uponit7771]

20. Doesn't have to, Clinton COULD'VE Spoken up on Wrights Character but threw him under the bus...

...with her silence.

Hillary is looking more and more like a snake

[Justyce]

33. A one-time visit to the White House, amongst

however many other thousands of guests they had, doesn't give them much insight into his character, unlike Obama's 20-year experience with the man. It's not their place to speak up. This doesn't involve them. This is between Obama and the media.

[slinkerwink]

46. it's not a one time visit. the church says Wright went to the WH twice.

[Divernan]

49. Not 1000sof guests, but only 100 hand-picked ministers to hear Bill repent the blow jobs.

This was the annual White House prayer breakfast. The guest list was not thrown together at the last minute.

[DearAbby]

62. 6 minute looped piece

doesn't give any insight into his ministry habits. This man has been publicly humiliated, This man who has 3 presidential commendations, 30+ yrs as a minister...all cut down to a 6 minute looped hatchet piece.

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. What a double standard. Did you hold Obama to the same standard

when his surrogates were accusing them of racism? What a load of bull. This board has gone off the deep end.

Further: a breakfast with one man is completely different than 20 years of listening to his rants and endorsing his beliefs.

For you to suggest that in a campaign, Clinton is supposed to support the man who keeps calling her a liar, is beyond reason.

[Recursion]

23. I would think most progressives should endorse his beliefs

And I haven't heard any "rants" from him; I've heard some pretty thoughtful sermons.

[leftynyc]

38. Sorry, not this progressive/liberal

Endorse someone who embraces and honors someone who says shit like this

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_jews.asp

Never.

[buff2]

40. You can bet your arse that

man would be a frequent guest in the WH if NOBAMA would get the Presidency. But I'm not worried. It ain't gonna happen! :hi:

[leftynyc]

44. I've seen your posts and consider

you a rude disruptor. You do nothing for your candidate.

[Recursion]

45. You seem to have posted a link about Farrakhan

What, do "all of them look alike" to you?

[leftynyc]

52. Do try to keep up and

you'll avoid making embarassing mistakes. The thread is about Rev Wright - he is the one that embraces and honors Farrakhan which makes me lose all respect for him.

Stop calling everyone you disagree with a racist. It's rude and childish.

[Recursion]

53. So why did you post about Farrakhan?

This thread is about Wright.

[leftynyc]

54. Oy - are you still asleep

You posted that progressives should endorse his ideas (Rev Wright) - I posted that I couldn't endorse anyone's ideas when they include embracing and honoring a pig like Farrakhan. Was that slow enough for you.

[Recursion]

57. OK, so why are you pretending Wright has "embraced" Farrakhan?

I mean, seriously, I know it's fun to just make shit up and all, but...

[leftynyc]

59. You haven't been paying much

attention, have you.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_distances.html

Try a bit of reading.

[Recursion]

60. Wow, if only Wright had any editorial control over the magazine that gave him that award...

...you might have a point.

It seems like all your posts would be powerful, if only they actually applied to the facts at hand.

[leftynyc]

69. So he has no control over who

an award THAT HAS HIS NAME ON IT gets given to? Is that really the argument you want to go with?

[Recursion]

73. Do you see his name on the Trumpeter masthead?

I didn't think so

[leftynyc]

76. You want to answer my very simple question

Do you or do you not think that Rev Wright is consulted and agrees with honoring someone with an award that has his name on it. Very simple question really. Why can't you answer it?

[Recursion]

81. I would doubt it

Having worked in publishing

[leftynyc]

82. LOL

whatever you say. Would you let an award with your name on it go to someone you disapproved of? Of course not. But keep twisting into that pretzel.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. I do not endorse the belief that the white girl was not raped and murderd but "giving it up"

I do not believe that we Americans are all akin to KKK.

I do not believe that Clinton has to be called the N word to be commmitted to civil rights.

[Recursion]

51. Wow, if only he had said any of those things...

...you might have a point.

[Evergreen Emerald]

55. you may want to re-listen without your Obama glasses on

[Recursion]

58. Whatever

I'll go make up shit about your candidate's pastor, how's that?

[uponit7771]

24. 1.) there's ONLY 30 secs of "rants" that doesn't equal 20 years, 2.) the Clintons knew of the mans..

...character and threw him under the bus with their silence instead of speaking up for the type of person he is.

and Character is what we lack in the white house now, I don't want "slightly" more of it from a dem president.

[Drachasor]

70. Do you have any examples of that? I do know that Obama said publically...

...that the Clintons were not racists.

[Evergreen Emerald]

72. he said that after the damage was done and SC was lost

his surrogate were on TV calling them racist twisting benign comments. His campaign sent a letter to the media outlining "racist" statements made by the Clintons.

[Drachasor]

79. I know for a fact he has said that memo was a mistake though

I don't recall his surrogates saying anything like that on TV (and it is important to distinguish between surrogates and random supporters). I'll take your word for it, for the sake of this discussion, however. Don't you think he deserves some credit for not doing that again and for saying it was a mistake? Few politicians own up to their errors.

[Evergreen Emerald]

80. No. It was political. He could distance himself (again AFTER the damage)

while his surrogates play the bad guys.

[Drachasor]

91. Ehh, the Clintons did things just as bad, and don't apologize

There's a stark difference. I'm not saying Obama is perfect, but his record here is superior.

Oh, and saying "I'm sorry that hurt your feelings" is not apologizing for the act.

[intheozone]

32. Obama made his bed, let him sleep in it! It's not the Clintons issue to

explain. If Obama wants the top job in world, he needs to fight for it and not expect his competition to do it for him.

[rocktivity]

36. You owe me a royalty, you plagiarist!

I wrote these last night:

Rocknation says THE CLINTONS should have provided the Times with the Clinton/Wright photo...or at least admit they'd met if only for the sake of damage control.
link

...She could have stopped the entire controversy cold by revealing her association with Wright and joining Obama in supporting and forgiving him. But by staying silent, only Obama got hurt--until now.
link

:rofl:
rocknation

[Arkansas Granny]

39. Do you think that maybe neither Clinton remembers meeting Rev. Wright

at a prayer breakfast that he attended 10 years ago along with 100 other preachers? I'm just throwing that out there as a hypothetical.

Not only that, but after the reaction that I saw when Hillary was questioned about Obama's faith and whether he was a Christian, she may have decided that it was better for her not to mention the Wright matter at all.

[Oilwellian]

74. Oh, she was mentioning the Wright "matter"

She was mentioning him to the super delegates as a means to persuade their vote her way. Yes, this was a peek into Hillary Clinton's black soul and unquenchable thirst for power, and her willingness to crush anyone who stands in her way. Only this time, she was willing to crush a black pastor that has more credibility in his pinky finger than the entire Clinton family.

When Bill Clinton betrayed the nation's trust, the most influential & respected clerics in the nation were asked to forgive him of his sin as a means to regain some moral standing as president of this nation. This wasn't one of those "thousands visiting the White House every year" situations...this was a way for Clinton to atone and he asked these religious leaders to help him do so....Wright was one of them. By the looks of the picture, it appears Wright was willing to forgive Bill Clinton.

Bill gave a speech to these clerics, with a tear in his eye and a heavy heart and at one point said he needed to learn how to forgive others. He and Hillary had their chance to come forward and defend Dr. Wright and his congregation...anyone who has taken the time to hear his ENTIRE sermons, not Faux News soundbytes, anyone who has taken the time to see the wonderful outreach programs this church has into the poor communities of Chicago, would applaud the Clintons for defending this man and all of the spiritual work he's done for the past 30 years. If they had done so, it would have shown there are some things more important in life than obtaining power. It would show they had integrity, loyalty to their friends, and a truly felt appreciation for the forgiveness they were allowed at the time Bill embarrassed us all.

But we saw the direction they chose instead and I suspect that is why Bill Richardson endorsed Obama last night. Why anyone would support the Clintons at this point is a mystery. They've proven what the right wing has been saying about them for years. If you think they care one wit about you or the problems we face as a nation, they you are grossly unwilling to face some ugly facts.

[rocktivity]

105. Or Hillary could have said, "We met him back in '98 and he was an okay guy THEN."

Then she could have had her cake (using Obama's relationship with Wright as leverage against the superdelgates) and eaten it too (sitting back and watching Obama get smeared). Now her silence looks self-serving at best and hypocritical at worst.

:headbang:
rocknation

[elixir]

61. did bill sit n the pews when Rev. Wrong was spewing hate speech?

Not quite the same thing. Nice reach though.

[Metric System]

63. I don't seem to recall Obama coming forward and defending the Clintons' reputation when they were

essentially portrayed as racists. In fact, we found out during the Nevada debate that the Obama camp had sent a 4-page memo to the media outlining all of the alleged racially-charged offenses supposedly committed by the Clinton camp.

[Drachasor]

71. Obama has publically said he didn't think the Clintons were racists

And he has said the memo was a mistake and regrets it. (And I think he deserves credit for recognizing a mistake, which most politicians can't do).

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. Oh How Ridiculous! ROFLMAO! They KNEW Him? ROFL!!! Thanks For The Laugh!!!

Oh god, how some of you are turning those pictures around as if they MEAN something, is just the funniest goddamn thing I've seen here in a while. What is wrong with some of you? Have you lost all ability to reason?

:rofl:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

85. Wright was 1 of 100 minister invited to that WH breakfast ..get a grip!

what makes you think the Clinton's "knew" the Rev personally?

stop the mellow dramatics!

[ecstatic]

86. I wonder what the Superdelegates think about this? She's

talking/whispering out one side of her mouth about Obama's electability due to Pastorgate... and now this??? How low can she go?

[TragedyandHope]

87. As an Obama supporter

my first reaction upon hearing this was supposedly leaked by the Obama camp, was disappointment. Secondarily, this doesn't change my feelings about Rev. Wright at all, but it does cast a slight negative shadow over the Clintons *IF* you bought into the relentlessly overhyped smear campaign in the first place (which I did not).

With all the time the media and Obama have already spent on this "issue" (using the term loosely) and especially after Obama's thoughtful speech on Tuesday, which truly elevated the campaign, it's counter-productive to drag the issue out even longer with this ineffectual jab. On top of that, it detracts and takes airtime away from the news of Richardson's endorsement today.

This doesn't change my support of Obama or make me think any higher of Hillary, but it was a bad move.

[FrenchieCat]

89. What was a bad move.......

For the Obama campaign to show the world that Rev. Wright is not a boogie man after all?

Please clarify yourself on this disappointment.

[TragedyandHope]

90. I think most of the world

had already come to that conclusion, especially after Obama's Tuesday speech. The media's volume on this issue was far out of proportion to the thinking public's perception of the issue and its relevance (or lack thereof) to the most pressing issues for the country at this moment in history.

My disappointment is in seeing this kind of tit for tat tactic at this time, especially since Obama's Tuesday speech was all about lifting us past that schoolyard finger-pointing approach. Not to mention that Obama had successfully weathered this specific attack and this issue was finally running out of steam.

I think the potential tactical benefit of this release on the part of the Obama campaign is outweighed by the negatives attached to it. To put it another way, this release doesn't tell us anything about the Clintons we didn't already know and the case has already been made against them in much stronger terms and on more relevant issues.

[FrenchieCat]

92. No, I don't think that the demonizing of Rev. Wright has yet stopped.....

and to destroy this fine man in the name of politics is not excusable. Hillary Clinton and her campaign watched as it happened and say nothing. The photo serves her as a reminder that playing Judah is not a Democratic Trait. For the Clintons to personally have known Rev. Wright and for neither to have stood up and acknowledge that fact was digusting. They, in essence, sat on the sideline to watch his destruction while not giving a fuck....when they could have not allowed the demonization of Rev. Wright to occur. Their silence was due to what it meant to them politically....which means they have no scruples and anyone and anything is expandable. Think about it.

Also there are now photos of Wright sitting next to Hillary at the prayer breakfast....meaning they didn't just shake hands.

I find that beyond forgiveness what Hillary has done.

Obama offering the photo to the News Agency needed to be done, because it ain't only about Obama for Obama, it is about those he has counted as friends. As Obama stated in his speech, he cannot reject the man who is like family to him.....what he didn't say is that he would right the wrong that Rev. Wright has been put through......and so Obama and his campaign get extra Kudos from me for doing what they can for someone who has made a difference in the lives of many of the most downtrotten.....and Hillary gets a thumb down for only thinking of herself.

[Why Syzygy]

98. Today my freeper mother asked me if I agreed with Wright.

I said, "about what"? She didn't know. She just thinks ... well who knows really.
She and I don't usually discuss religion or politics. Dead end issues.

[Unbowed]

100. It's not just the photo...it's the White House invitations.

Not just anybody gets one of those invites. I know my local pastor never has.

[robbedvoter]

101. Do you know everyone you were ever photographed with? Are you sure?

[FrenchieCat]

102. One would have to be stupid to be a politician and not to know the most powerful church in Chicago

and be familiar with their pastor, a man who received 3 presidential commendations, and was in the recovery room when LBJ had his heart attack.

As someone who's church and pastor has hosted the likes of Bono to Gov. Schwarzenegger, I know precisely that a Former President who got elected by going from Black Church to Black Church, made it a point to know a pastor like Rev. Wright.

Here's more, from one of my earlier posts: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5196598

[robbedvoter]

103. So, if he's so wonderful as the speech stated, why is his being at the WH a bad thing?

Still confuses me...Not so much since BO's campaign handed Matt Lauer the rezko photo that went nowhere - but still wondering: the point of all this is? :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

104. He isn't that it was bad that he was at the White House....

What is bad is that the Clintons are acting like they don't know Wright......only because they would prefer that Obama be destroyed with whatever the means, including guilt by association and slice and dice video pundit head bullshit designed to destroy and vilify a Pastor who has done a lifetime of work helping the oppressed.

You obviously didn't go to my link or you wouldn't have asked me what you did.

I don't blame you....cause the truth feels like hell.....but it is the truth, nevertheless.