With all respect, can we please stop the "Draft Gore", "Draft Edwards", etc. posts.

[RBInMaine]

Anyone with any sense of reality knows these "draft" this person or that person posts are, frankly, nutty fantasyland pipedreaming and a waste of time and space. The nominee will be Hillary or Obama. That's it. That's all.

[Blondiegrrl]

1. Aw, come on! How about a Dean/Gravel ticket?

Now THAT would be fun! :evilgrin:

(For the record, I love both those guys. But I'd rather have Obama.)

[OmahaBlueDog]

2. If it's an open convention...

all is fair after the first ballot. At this point, there's a good argument for taking someone other than Obama or Clinton if they can't close the deal before the convention.

[RBInMaine]

5. Yeah, they're gonna chuck all these primaries out the window. Kindly step into reality.

[OmahaBlueDog]

7. We haven't had an open convention in over 50 years

you're as clueless as I am as to what will happen after a first ballot. If they the DNC isn't convinced either of these two will beat McCain, and they have a viable alternative, they'll take it.

[cali]

13. bzzzzzt. come back from fantasy land

Who's the head of the DNC? Howard, and guarantee you that there is nothing he's less likely to do than throw out the votes of millions. Nothing. Wake up. This isn't going to happen. Millions of dems wouldn't vote in your silly scenario. I'm one of them. And I'd do more than not vote. I'd protest against anything so profoundly undemocratic and so against progressive ideals.

[OmahaBlueDog]

14. You're right ..why would he wait until the convention to throw out millions of

..votes, when he's thrown out votes in Florida and Michigan already. No, you're right -- he respects the voter.

[cali]

19. Telling a lie over and over doesn't make it true

Dean has not thrown out the votes of those in FL or MI, and I'm sure the delegates will be seated in some configuration. FL and MI legislatures are responsible and that includes all the dems who were so eager to cut to the head of the line. DUers turning against Dean is one of the more vile little byproducts of this primary season.

[OmahaBlueDog]

23. I'm not turning against Dean. I'm just saying

The people of Florida and Michigan voted. Their votes don't count, because their delegates wont be seated in a manner reflective of the will of the voters in those states. The DNC had a choice, they made it.

All I'm saying is that if the convention is deadlocked after the first ballot, I don't see delegates switching sides. The rules of the convention say that the convention can consider other options. Is it probable -- probably not. Is it possible -- verry possibly. Is it a Fantasyland scenario... it is no more a Fantasyland scnario than those who keep posting "Gee, it's over, why won't just concede for the good of the party so can be declared the nominee." That ain't gonna happen either.

So I say enjoy the spectacle that will be our convention.

[high density]

22. The state parties are the ones who threw out those votes

when they willfully violated the rules. "He" didn't throw their votes out, because he doesn't have that power.

[Kukesa]

17. Pass me a protest sign, cali; I'll march alongside you. n/t

[high density]

18. How would they be convinced that somebody else would beat McCain?

I thought part of this primary process was to vet our candidates?

[OmahaBlueDog]

24. If they've both vetted themselves into unelectability,

one could (not necessarily should) argue for picking a third choice (not to be confused with a Third Way)

[AlGore-08.com]

9. It's not a probable scenario, but it is possible ONLY IF Obama AND Clinton can't compromise

The only way that Gore or Edwards (or any other third person) could become the nominee is if:

1.) Neither Clinton nor Obama have 2025 delegates on the first ballot (the most likely part of the scenario).

2a.) Neither Obama nor Clinton are able to convince 2025 delegates to vote for them on subsequent ballots AND

2b.) Neither Clinton nor Obama will drop their candidacy in favor of the other AND

2c.) Neither Obama nor Clinton will accept the #2 spot on a unity ticket AND

2d.) This state of affairs continues long enough that 2025 delegates at the convention think drafting a third person who did not run in the primaries is the only way to get a nominee.

If the convention is truly deadlocked - - if they've been voting for days and nobody's making any concessions or headway at all - - the convention has no choice but to look for a compromise candidate. That is their job. Them's the rules. To not look for a compromise candidate would be throwing away all those primaries - - and the general election - - and all the down ticket races in the general election. Because we'd have no Presidential nominee. Or Vice Presidential nominee. McCain could take a nap until Labor Day and then just show up on "Oprah" and "Larry King Live" a few times and win in a landslide.

If the convention ends up being deadlocked, the "fault" will lie with both Clinton and Obama. Not one. Both. Because they will have both proven that they lack the negotiating skills to convince 2025 highly motivated Democratic activists, office holders and former office holders to vote for them. If they can't convince the home team to do that, how are they going to convince the majority of Americans to vote for them? How are they going to get any legislation passed through a hostile Congress? How are they going to negotiate climate and defense and trade treaties with hostile nations? But more importantly, to end up with a deadlocked convention, both Obama and Clinton would have to decide that they will accept nothing less than the nomination, and be completely unwilling or unable to put the good of the party and of the country ahead of their own career. At all stages, they have the power to keep this scenario from happening. If it does, it will be because they could not or would not stop it from happening.

[OmahaBlueDog]

12. I agree with everything you say except one little thing

"if they've been voting for days "

They won't take the convention into overtime. From what I'm told, the balloting after the first ballot goes pretty quickly. However, I'm convinced if they can't strike a deal between the frontrunners by -- say ballot 5 -- I think Dean will start seriously pushing Gore, if for no other reason than to knock some sense into the frontrunners and try to force them to forge a compromise.

That said, I can pretty much guarantee someone will at least try to nominate Gore on the second ballot.

I will agree with the OP to the extent that I don't necessarily see this as probable, but the poster should realize that we're in waters we haven't tested in a long time. I don't think either candidate takes it on the 1st ballot, and both are stubborn as Hell. To make matters worse, when you look at stated policy (as opposed to record or past experience) there's not a lot of difference between them (before the flamers start: I mean as opposed to a Humphry (pro-VN war) vs. McCarthy (anti-VN war) kind of difference). If it becomes clear neither will compromise, choice #3 is a real option.

OBTW -- don't be shocked if the GOP suddenly pulls McCain for "reasons of health" and finds someone more likely to serve two terms and get the evangelicals fired up in his place.

[mohc]

15. If neither one has 2024 votes needed on a ballot

Who do you think the others are voting for? All 4047 votes are going to cast on every ballot. If Obama were to have say 2023 votes, someone would have to have the other 2024. Based on what we have seen out of the second round of the caucuses in Iowa, Edwards will probably end up with 15 or so delegates. So only if the delegate lead is less than 15 will one candidate not be over 2023.5. Most likely the gap will exceed 15 delegates and this will be over on the first ballot. If by some chance the lead is smaller than 15, then those 15 Edwards delegates will basically decide the nomination. They are far more likely to side with either Obama or Clinton than they would be to switch to a completely new candidate. The only scenario where a deadlocked convention could happen requires 1) Delegate lead is less than 15 2) All pledged delegates stand their ground, including Edwards delegates 3) The superdelegates also stand their ground, including those that may not have made public endorsements before the convention. Its just not very likely. Basically it comes down to this, in a 2 way race one candidate or the other has to have a majority. Had Edwards stayed in the race through Super Tuesday, we would be looking at a deadlocked convention almost certainly, or at the very least Edwards shifting his delegates to decide the nomination. Since he got out with so few delegates, we will probably know who will win the nomination soon after the final pledged delegates are allocated in June, if not sooner.

[Blue_Roses]

3. thank-you and

I bow to you :yourock:

[RBInMaine]

6. Hey, sorry but there's probably plenty of us who are tired of the crazy pipedreaming posts.

[frogcycle]

4. or somebody else

or nobody, when the election gets postponed because of the Iran War.

[JDPriestly]

8. Hillary and Obama have until the second vote at the convention

to make a deal. It's going to be either both of them on the ticket or a third person. If it gets to that point, and it just could happen judging from the way the primaries are going and the animosity between the two candidates' supporters, that it just might be a third compromise person. I would suggest Edwards, but Gore is also a great choice to be drafted as a compromise. There is also Joe Biden who might make a great alternative vice president.

If either Obama or Hillary manages to get the nomination and does not choose the other one for vice president, we will have a hard time winning in November.

We would need a candidate everyone can accept, even if the candidate was not the first choice. That's how a compromise will look if Hillary and Obama, Obama and Hillary can't work together. Frankly, I see Obama as winning by a very narrow margin -- probably not big enough to insure the nomination, and realizing that he really can't run with Hillary because of the nastiness of the campaign. Or vice versa. In that case, the nomination will be open.

[FlyingSquirrel]

10. Draft Gore!!!!

Draft Edwards!!!!!!!!!111111111





























Draft Kucinich?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

16. YES!!! Draft Kucinich!!!

Or Gravel!!!

Maybe not Lieberman!!!
:rofl:

[Az_lefty]

11. yes, we really need to get past this...it's not going to happen

[thewiseguy]

20. Draft McFadden!

I heard that kid runs faster than both Gore and Edwards combined.

[mudesi]

21. The same goes for Clinton!

Can we please just accept that Obama has won the nomination?