Help me convert a democrat who will vote for Bush!

[Aunt Anti-bush]

I spoke with a friend today who is a long time democrat. To my utter horror she has told me that she, her family and a group of her friends have decided to vote for Bush.

When I asked her to please explain, she told me simply that Kerry is in favor of raising taxes and that Kerry will take "our" guns away. I have an entire folder of articles that will dispel the tax myths about Kerry and to be quite honest, I think I will be able to explain that side of the issue with ease because I believe she got her fear of Kerry raising taxes from Bush's misleading ads. She practically quoted a Bush ad verbatim. I can handle that part of it, but I would really like some help in dispelling the 2nd myth about Kerry taking away "our" guns.

That issue isn't close to my heart, although my husband is an avid hunter and shooter, but I could care less if guns are legal or not so I haven't really paid attention to any issues on gun control. From what I have been able to read, Kerry seems to be pretty anti-guns. Can anyone point me to some references on the issue that I can use to ease her mind about loosing her guns so that I can get her to see past that to some more important issues?

Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.

[movonne]

1. She is no Democrat....forget it!!

[Aunt Anti-bush]

3. I can see why you'd say that, but unfortunately,

I am in Pennsylvania and I'm surrounded by tons of democrats who think that hunting is the most important thing in the world. There are a LOT of them here who think Bush is better than Kerry because of this issue. (Although I too, think they're all traitors.)

[movonne]

11. Does your friend have any children...ask if they are in favor of a

draft...This on will draft women. Maybe that will be more important than the gun issue.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

19. I've tried that.

I have barraged this woman with important issues like the one you mentioned about the draft. Unfortunately, these pro-gun people are so hyped up about loosing their weapons, they wont listen to reason when it comes to anything else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. A small effort must be made

also realize she hears the echo chamber,

Best thing to do, direct her to well... DU and Buzzflash

[Skittles]

2. oh COME ON

no real DEMOCRAT could EVER vote for that incompetent, illiterate, moronic, ELECTION-STEALING PIECE OF SHIT.

[Paradise]

38. "DITTO!" n/t

[DAGDA56]

5. Kerry will not take your guns away...

...I don't believe he can do that on executive order. In addition, he will be dealing, st least initially, with a Republican House and Senate. Among the things he would want do in his first 100 days in office, I suspect none of them are even remotely concerned with guns. On the other hand, if Bush and friends are allowed another 4 years, the people who brought you the Patriot Act might just feel more comfortable if they limited the 2nd Ammendment along with the other 9.

[walldude]

6. Michael Moore can help

In his book Dude Wheres My Country Moore claims that most Americans are liberal at heart and devotes 2 chapters on how to talk someone who is Republican(and if your friend is voting for Bush they are Republican) because of the 2 main GOP Platforms Guns and Taxes. Pick up his book, or get it from the library, he can tell you better than I how to "convert" these people :D

[walldude]

10. One other thing..

Your friends priorities are all screwed up if taxes and gun laws are all she's worried about in the coming election. Please, taxes and gun ownership are at the bottom of my list of worries these days...

[King of New Orleans]

7. Why would Kerry take your guns away?

He's already got his own guns. Why would he need yours?

[can_of_sprite]

8. Why do you have to put a subject in a post?

You can tell her that Bush is now a crook.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&e=4&u=/ap/medicare_cost

In a report made public Monday, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service said efforts to keep Richard Foster, the chief Medicare actuary, from giving Democratic lawmakers his projections of the bill's cost — $100 billion more than the president and other officials were acknowledging — probably violated federal law.

[jimshoes]

20. I heard that too...

Hope they throw the book at these liars. BTW welcome to DU! :bounce:

[Aunt Anti-bush]

22. I will.

I have to get her to open up her eyes, first, though. :) Welcome to DU!

[newyawker99]

31. Hi can_of_sprite!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Tina H]

9. my attempt

Clinton didn't reallyraise taxes or take anybody's guns (except for those of the Branch Davidians and their ilk).

Kerry is basically the same as Clinton (minus the sex harrassment). Therefore, there is good reason to believe he won't raise taxes on the middle class or advocate to legislate away the guns.

[AlCzervik]

12. the fact that her crowd "Decides" as a group how

to vote is just disturbing. Your friend needs to think own her own a little more and she should start reading.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

21. Yes, I agree.

She (and the family and friends she has) are really idiotic when it comes to this election. Unfortunately, the gun rights people here are concerned about nothing more than being able to have their guns and since beginning this conversation with her about a week ago, I've begun to question if any of them have the brains necessary to be gun owners. But, still I am going to get it through their thick skulls one way or another!

[Tina H]

25. You may want to check out reply #162 . . .

in the following DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1513220

[Liberal Gramma]

13. Didn't I hear somewhere that Kerry is a card-carrying

member of the NRA? I know he is a hunter, so he's unlikely to confiscate all of America's guns. (Maybe just the AK47s)

[NMDemDist2]

14. Here is from his website

Increased Gun Safety
John Kerry is a gun owner and hunter, and he believes that law-abiding American adults have the right to own guns. But like all of our rights, gun rights come with responsibilities, and those rights allow for reasonable restrictions to keep guns out of the wrong hands. John Kerry strongly supports all of the federal gun laws on the books, and he would take steps to ensure that they are vigorously enforced, cracking down hard on the gun runners, corrupt dealers, straw buyers, and thieves that are putting guns into the hands of criminals in the first place. He will also close the gun show loophole, which is allowing criminals to get access to guns at gun shows without background checks, fix the background check system, which is in a serious state of disrepair, and require that all handguns be sold with a child safety lock.

On Taxes
Provide Tax Relief to Middle Class Families
John Kerry has the courage to take on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. However, he believes that we should keep the middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for in 2001 and 2003. Specifically, he wants to protect the increases in the child tax credit, the reduced marriage penalty and the new tax bracket that helps people save $350 on their first level of income. He strongly disagrees with Democrats who want to repeal these tax cuts because it would cost a typical middle-class family with two children an additional $2,000. These families are often already struggling with higher health care costs and higher state and local taxes. In fact, John Kerry wants to give more tax breaks to the middle class with new tax credits on health care and college tuition. These tax cuts are part of his plan to restore the economy and cut the budget deficit in half in four years.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/crime/

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

[Warpy]

15. First, ask her how many millions of dollars she has

Ask her if she makes over $200K a year. Tell her only people with that income will see any rise in taxes. HER cuts will stay (that is, if she actually got any, which she probably didn't).

Kerry is a hunter. The NRA is lying again.

Don't expect her to read your pamphlets. People are like that because they don't read.

Finally, let her know that bush is an Ivy Leage pantywaist who pretends to be a cowboy but who laughs at people who buy it.

[billybob537]

16. sportsmen for kerry

go to johnkerry.com , Kerry is a hunter too.

[DjTj]

17. Here's what I've got:

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Gun_Control.htm

John Kerry is a gun owner and hunter, and he believes that law-abiding American adults have the right to own guns. But like all of our rights, gun rights come with responsibilities, and those rights allow for reasonable restrictions to keep guns out of the wrong hands. John Kerry strongly supports all of the federal gun laws on the books, and he would take steps to ensure that they are vigorously enforced, cracking down hard on the gun runners, corrupt dealers, straw buyers, and thieves that are putting guns into the hands of criminals in the first place. He will also close the gun show loophole, which is allowing criminals to get access to guns at gun shows without background checks, fix the background check system, which is in a serious state of disrepair, and require that all handguns be sold with a child safety lock.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

18. from a fundie site

"During his 2000 campaign, candidate Bush voiced his support of the assault weapons ban that was passed during the Clinton administration. The federal law is scheduled to expire on Sept. 13, 2004, and Bush, speaking as president, has already stated that he supports its reauthorization."

http://www.evervigilant.net/shelton/shelton111303.html

So, tell her, Bush is coming for her guns too. Everybody wants her guns, the Russians are coming! Wolverines!

[Merlin]

23. I can't help but feel we're being asked to do opposition research here.

Sorry, but that's my take on this description of, imo, a highly improbable situation.

[Tina H]

27. Disagree

as the opposition party, opposition research is fairly considered our task. As the responses on this thread show, we are up to the challenge.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

37. And I appreciate the responses, too.

It seems to be working. I only had about 10 minutes to speak to her today, but with everyone's help here, she's agreed to speak to me about it more tomorrow. I explained to her that no one is going to "take their guns away" and that Bush has supported some of the same legislation that Kerry has in the past. I read to her the views expressed on Kerry's site and told her that there are much bigger issues at hand right now and for the FIRST time, she agreed with me! Any further help or advice on turning her around (and in turn having her turn around all these other people she says are supporting Bush) is appreciated, greatly.

[JHBowden]

24. 98% of Americans get a tax cut under President Kerry.

In addition, Kerry, a veteran, owns weapons, so I don't understand why he would seize the weapons of others. Kerry supports the assault weapons ban and closing the gunshow loophole, but that is a far leap from being a gun grabber.

[lojasmo]

26. Your friend may be a libertarian

And just too ignorant to know it. She's no democrat.

[mitchum]

28. THis sounds like utter bullshit...

since the "Democrats will raise taxes and take your guns away" canard is quite an old one now. Seems like that "long time democrat" would have been duped by those lies already (because she certainly would have heard them before this year) Sorry, I'm not buying it :)

[balanced]

34. Hear, hear.

[flaminbats]

29. Does she only care about guns?

I find this somewhat ironic because I couldn't get my uncle, a longtime Rockefeller Republican, to consider Kerry after discovering that he was a member of the N.R.A.! :grr:

[Gore1FL]

30. Bush will raise your taxes too --

but not until a responsible admin takes over.

Kerry tax hikes are necessary because of Bush irresponsibilities.

[sofa king]

32. Kerry on Gun Control

From www.issues2000.org :

Gun owner & hunter, but rights come with responsibility. (Mar 21)
Democratic Party shouldn't be for the NRA. (Nov 2003)
Supports assault weapons ban & Brady Bill. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology. (Aug 2000)

Much more detail can be found here:

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Gun_Control.htm

[sofa king]

33. Oh, and Bush already did raise taxes on your friend, indirectly.

Bushco cut taxes to the wealthiest Americans, reducing federal services to states at the same time that states were realizing record shortfalls in revenue.

Did your friend get one of those pissant advance refund checks in the mail? I hope she saved it, because Pennsylvania raised her state taxes, in part to cover the shortfall in federal funds created by the Bush Administration. Almost six percent of her income now goes to state taxes.

If she's a wealthy Pennsylvanian, she should be jumping for joy. Because while Bush gave rich folk a larger income tax cut both percentage-wise and in real dollars, Pennsylvania raised taxes by a combination of income and flat taxes. That means that middle-income Pennsylvanians enjoyed the largest tax increase, percentage-wise.

In other words, she got fucked without a kiss, just like the rest of us.

[blm]

35. Ask her if Clinton took her guns away.

No Democrat is going to take her guns away - that is just a GOP fabrication to scare people.

btw....Kerry has hunted his entire life. He also happens to be a crack shot. He just doesn't happen to believe that assault weapons are legitimate weapons for hunters.

[Mz Pip]

36. She should be more concerned about

the Republicans taking away her guns.

Seriously, if we have another terrorist attack all bets are off on civil liberties, and I would include in that the right bear arms.

MzPip
:dem:

[cosmik debris]

39. Try reverse psychology

You know, you might be needing that gun soon. Bush has already taken away you right of Lawyer-Client privilege, But that's OK because he took away your right to see a lawyer in the first place. But that is not a problem because he also took away your right to go to court (Habeas Corpus) so what do you need a lawyer for. And even if you could get into court, he's taken away your right to a fair trial by jury, so there is really no need to go to court. Yea, maybe you will need that gun sooner than you think. Or you could just vote Kerry!

Use a gun or use a vote. It is your choice.