Democrats risk losing a generation

[bunnies]

Democrats risk losing a generation

BY RON DZWONKOWSKI • FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • March 16, 2008

If -- and it's still an if -- the numbers just don't add up for U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic presidential nominee, but the party, through its arcane rules and superdelegates process, gives it to her anyway, Democrats will pay dearly, for a generation or more.
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Instead of re-establishing themselves as the party in power for perhaps the next 20 years, Democrats could be effectively handing the White House to Republican John McCain and alienating up to 30 million young voters who have gotten engaged in politics this year for the first time because of Barack Obama. If these voters feel that Obama has been cheated out of a chance to run for president, they and the hordes more of them becoming eligible to vote in the years ahead, will not easily return to the Democratic fold. Even if they like the party's principles, they will distrust its processes.

In this scenario, Clinton mitigates the damage only somewhat by choosing Obama as her vice presidential candidate -- a role he has said he doesn't want anyway.

More likely, young voters sit out the election (as they have in the past) and McCain wins and Democrats dissolve again into their bickering, finger-pointing ways while an emerging generation that desperately wants to see a stronger, safer and better America backs out of the political system.

much more at link: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080316/COL32/803160501/1081

[FrenchieCat]

1. That is the correct reading......

and there is more than this fall out to come.

[splat]

2. Americans of all ages want the GOP out; young voters aren't more essential than any others

[FrenchieCat]

4. Wrong call......

but I am not surprised at the lack of insight displayed by your cavaliere remarks.

[Doctor_J]

7. Whoa, you are way out of touch.

Obama will bring 5-10 million young people to the polls to VOTE DEMOCRATIC. And when the country turns around, they will feel like they had a significant hand in the recovery. Nominating Hillary negate that possibility.

[splat]

10. The echo chamber is isolating, guys; reinforcing each other does not make it true

[Drachasor]

17. Exit polls and survey show record numbers of young people voting for Obama

How do you dismiss that?

[splat]

23. It just may not matter when GOP is reviled, and McCain (no economist) can't feed country

[Drachasor]

33. Young people matter for the future of the party and the country

[FrenchieCat]

36. These young people have been voting for change.....

and especially not for Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton.

The fact that you don't get this is one of the reason that we are where we are today; regressing.

[Why Syzygy]

50. This is just common sense and average observational skills.

Any thinking person can figure this one.

[greyghost]

58. Damn straight. They've been told that repeatedly, but they are

VERY SLOW on the uptake.

[populistdriven]

63. And Hillary is spending all her money to get McCain elected - she endorsed him afterall

[Kolesar]

Obama still seems like "the best of two choices" to me and not so much a movement builder

Long before Obama had name recognition, political involvement was up HUGELY. The turnout in the November 2006 election was quite high, for one... :)

[leftofcool]

34. The largest voting bock in the country is women over 40

[Kittycat]

38. And I'm sure they're going to want those new voters upholding their rights

down the road.

[splat]

46. No, they want the first woman president upholding their rights; is this a blindspot for you?

[Kittycat]

78. Why do you insult me? I AM a woman.

:eyes:

I have nothing wrong with the right woman being elected president. But HRC is NOT the right woman, IMO. I'd rather a leader than a victim that offers us no transparency.

[Skidmore]

87. I'm a woman and I want my children included in the process.

I'm also an old lady and I know I won't live forever. I want to that they have a good start in their adult lives before I die. I'd vote for Hillary if I thought she'd really include more than the cronies and hangers on she and Bill have dragged around with them for the past 30 years. I think that she (and Bill because they are a set) will take care of themselves first and will cover for the Bushes. I don't trust her, or him. They are corrupt. I think Obama address the right kind of change and will protect everyone's rights, including and most importantly, restoring habeus corpus.

I want the right person, and sometimes the right person isn't a woman.

[roguevalley]

108. we are women and we don't want her. How big a blindspot is that

for you? You do not speak for us. We speak for ourselves, unless you find it difficult with the concept that women can do that nowadays.

[bunnies]

52. and yet

"... Millennial Generation, born from 1983-2003, and at 80 million strong, the largest generation in American history."

So who is more important to the future of the party?

[Bake]

133. That's funny ... I was born in 1955 and I plan to vote for another 30 years.

Of course, I guess us boomers should just get the fuck over it, huh. Oh, and PAY FOR EVERYTHING on our way out.

Who is making the house payments, the car payments, holding down the career jobs, paying off their kids' college loans? Is it the 20 somethings? No, I think it's us boomers. And we do still vote, by the way.

Bake

[Doctor_J]

106. That is part of the problem.

If Obama can get another 10 million young people to the polls, we can make sure they stay involved.

[roguevalley]

107. I belong to that block and I am voting for change, not the same old,

same old in a dress

[roguevalley]

105. people voting young tend to stay their lifetimes with that party. we

will pay through the butt if this elitist bullshit plays out.

[bunnies]

39. Young voters are Democrats of the future.

Long term Dem rule would be nice. Dont you think?

[splat]

44. We're the Dems of the present, and we actually vote

[bunnies]

55. And so are they.

They're voting for Obama.

[Skidmore]

84. Dinosaurs thought that way, and you know what happened to them.

Stay away from tar pits and bogs.

[okasha]

118. Yep.

The smart, fast little buggers grew feathers and became birds.

[Exilednight]

75. Americans of all ages may want the GOP out, but that doesn't mean they want Hillary in. n/t

[Harry Monroe]

89. Whoa, have you been looking around lately??

I live in Starkville Mississippi, a pretty conservative college town. Here at Mississippi State, I see HUGE support from the students for Obama. This in a blood red state. If Hillary gets the nomination by hook or crook I'm sure these normally apathetic Republican voters will become disillusioned and rightfully so. They will probably become disgusted and once again become apathetic, believing that it is politics as usual and refuse to come out to vote or will go with McCain. I believe this is indicative of college students nationwide.

[Doctor_J]

112. The Hilbots don't seem to get that

The 18-25 crowd is not excited about the party per se. They would like an anti-Bush as president, but not because of party afiliation, They want someone who is young, energetic, positive, enthusiastic, forward-looking, engaged, and engaging, instead of the stupid, lazy, mean, lying old drunk we have now. I don't think they will flock to McCain, but they will definitely stay home on election day, and that will be enough to cost us the White House and probably 20-odd seats in the House and 3-4 in the Senate.

[tabasco]

3. Hell, I've been a Democrat for decades and if they pull that crap

I'm outta here too!

[WillyT]

6. Right There With Ya Tabasco !!!

:hi:

[searchingforlight]

5. You have a good point.

The young voter turnout this year has been the big story, bigger than the fact that we have a chance to make history with either of our candidates.

The majority of democrats will vote for the ticket no matter what but younger voters might well be so disillusioned that they stay home. The passion is for the man. It is in him that they see themselves represented.

[splat]

15. If the passion is for the man, join a fan club; the parties represent different Americas

[searchingforlight]

24. You assume I am making a sexual reference?

[splat]

25. Of course not; it's not about the man, it's about corporate party vs. people's party

[GarbagemanLB]

31. And Hillary is the corporate candidate.

[splat]

40. No: GOP is the corporate party; Nader split us before with 'there's no difference'

There is a huge difference between the parties; the differences between Hillary and Obama are trifling.

[GarbagemanLB]

8. Agreed.

[texas_indy]

9. I've voted democratic president al candidate since '92. If Obama has the nomination stolen from

him by a DNC "coup d’état" then the democratic party can kiss off a lot of people for any support this fall.

If the democratic party supports a DNC "coup d’état", then why even pretend that the "will of the people" matters.
They should just instead be honest about it and have ONLY the party elite select the nominee.

[splat]

12. Obama hasn't won the nomination; that only happens at the convention

[texas_indy]

35. If Obama has the majority of popular votes and delegates when he arrives at the

convention and the "super" delegates steal the nomination from him, then they will have committed a "coup d’état" against the will of the people.

They will have proved before the entire world that the elite can steal an election from the common people in broad daylight and call it just, even in the USA.

And this would be done by the so called "party of the people".

[splat]

49. The superdelegates' role is to keep the party on course, however they interpret that

It is not to ratify the plunge off a cliff by an angry mob, for example.

If you think this is "stealing," you don't understand the checks and balances built into our system of govt.

[texas_indy]

54. " checks and balances built into our system of govt."?????

This is a "political party" and NOT our govt!

And what example can you gives us where the party choice elite has overturned the choice of the majority of the people in that party in the US?

Even the repukes don't use this crap of super delegates who can overturn the choice of the party people.

If you think this isn't stealing, then you should have no issue at all with dictatorships anywhere in the world.

After all, "they" did the same thing to "not to ratify the plunge off a cliff by an angry mob". Viva la Revolucion!

[splat]

67. Think about it in the context of history of both parties

Internet rules don't apply.

("Up the Revolution" was the American version, National Mobe and all that.)

[texas_indy]

95. What you are trying to say ??

"Think about it in the context of history of both parties"
- what does this have to do with theft by the party elite? I only see one party having the super delegates.
- Are you saying that if something that is wrong has been done before, then it is alright to do it again?


"Internet rules don't apply." - what on Earth does this mean?


"("Up the Revolution" was the American version, National Mob and all that.)"
- So does this mean you support all dictatorships since they use the same excuse for over throwing the "rule of the mob"?

[roguevalley]

110. don't bother, texas. its as incoherent as it sounds.

[roguevalley]

109. hey splat. the majority choosing obama is not a plunge off a cliff

we are the 'demo-cra-tic' party. we get to have our say.

[bunnies]

56. Since '92? Me too!

:toast: I proudly voted for Bill Clinton for the first 5 years of my voting life.

But if my party wants to tell me that my vote doesnt count, then it doesnt get to count on my vote.

[Why Syzygy]

96. It won't be the DNC. Look out for the DLC, the Clinton's gang. nt

[izzybeans]

11. It will prove their suspicions of Clinton being just another member of the power elite

and they don't have the blind loyalty to the brand name Clinton. It is meaningless to them. So you can't just say something and have them wish it was true. They won't defend her blindly in the GE like her older supporters are doing now.

[lapfog_1]

13. Given that Hillary is no longer a Democrat...

if the Democratic party, to which I have supported and donated to for 7 years now, and voted for since I have been able to vote, gives the nomination to Hillary, I will leave the party.

If it was any other Democrat still in against Obama, this would likely not be the case... if it had been Obama and Edwards here at the end, I probably wouldn't care which one was nominated. But Hillary's betrayal of the Party with the endorsement of McCain over Obama is the straw that broke this camel's back. I will never forget that nor will I forgive it. Not much is made of that outrage now, what with Ferraro's racist remarks and the dust up over Rev. Wright, but for me, this video says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

and it's the same thing that Joe Lieberman did and the same that Zell Miller did.

And I still won't be surprised to find Hillary as the VP nominee on McCain's ticket (with a promise that she can run for President at the end of his term).

[splat]

16. Hillary's a Democrat, you're an Obamacrat

[Nostradammit]

And you are aptly named

[Drachasor]

19. Don't be a lamer

[roguevalley]

111. hey splat, explain post 67 before you call people names.

[Nia Zuri]

14. I've voted since '78 and I would be out too. The alternative would be to form a third party...

[boston bean]

18. you don't think O might have turned them off already. All that unity he talks about

and he attends a divisive church for twenty years.

Talk about being let down and turned off to a political process.

[Drachasor]

20. How is the church he attends divisive?

[anonymous171]

26. HRC supporters blindly accept the spin, or perpetuate it themselves.

Go here and look at this so called "hate church":
http://www.tucc.org/

[Drachasor]

32. I ask him so that he can make clear that his claim lacks substance

That's the way I roll.

[JVS]

42. too much gyrating

[sunnystarr]

28. It's not a divisive church

why don't you take the time to research it before you make statements.

[bunnies]

45. No. I dont think young people really give a crap about this church thing.

Ive not encountered a single Obama supporter who's mind has been changed by it.

[Drachasor]

80. My 89 year-old grandmother doesn't give a crap about it either

Nor does my mother.

Guess who they're voting for.

[ananda]

21. What we have really lost from Dems and all politicos.

The great loss is the ability of the American
people to influence public policy and the
dissemination of information in a fair and
truthful manner.. resulting in the loss of
our constitutional protections and the rule of
law.

Neither party actually deserves any support
whatsoever.. but the system is manipulated to
keep both parties afloat as the two wings of
the rightwing business party.

Sue

[apocalypsehow]

22. Ah, but you don't get it! The coronation is more important than the Democratic Party or the country!

Get with the program!

:sarcasm:

[splat]

29. The coronation of Obama seems the goal here

[wileedog]

37. That pesky winning the election thing

tends to lead to that.

[WillyT]

30. Ready On Day One !!!

:evilgrin:

[Tarheel_Dem]

43. omg WillyT...you shoulda warned me

:spray: Now you owe me a keyboard :rofl:

[bilgewaterbill]

48. That's the funniest damn thing I've seen all weekend!!

[bunnies]

41. How silly of me! lol.

Whats good for the Clintons is good for the world! :rofl:

[roguevalley]

113. what the fuck don't people understand that if he wins the most votes

he's the winner?! And it looks like that's going to happen. if the sd have a brain, they will support their states and districts. He wins. Legally. Get over it.

[Window]

27. K/R.

:kick:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Well Maybe The Young Voters Need A Good Breaking In On The World Of Politics.

If they think it's all bubblegum and lollipops, well then they probably ain't ready to enter the arena anyway. If they're interested in politics, then they're gonna have to get a thick skin like the rest of us and learn how to fuckin suck it up. Politics ain't for the weak.

[splat]

51. Tough love, old timer; politics will always break your heart eventually

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. They Need To Start Learning That Soon.

Way I see it, I'm proud of them for finally getting involved, but based on some of the tantrums I've seen and some of the comments from them, many of them don't even truly understand politics and instead are energized because of this perception that Obama is some gift from god and that the landscape of politics can be forever altered by a click of their heels and wave of their wand. Bubblegum and lollipops. Thing is, Obama's good, but he ain't that good. At the end of the day he's far more like Hillary than they'd ever be able to admit, and he's not anywhere near being this political messiah they've propped him up as being. That doesn't mean Obama doesn't deserve their support, since he does. What it means, is that based on their fragile political mindset and almost naively politically idealistic point of view, that there's a huge risk that come 2012, when they realize that he didn't turn out to be the forever changing the world and way politics works type leader they thought he was, that they're just gonna take their ball and go home anyway.

I'm proud of them for getting involved and we need them to be the next generation of Democrats that help us keep momentum in our favor for quite some time. But to do that affectively, they need to understand far better what politics is and that it isn't this idealistic bubble gum and lollipops arena that they're hoping it's going to be. Once they get the proper perspective and once they can see that even Hillary is far better for us than McCain, then they can truly ultimately help us change the landscape of politics for the better; but over time, not with a click of their heels.

[greyghost]

60. You should use this as an OP.

[populistdriven]

66. Hillary is worse than McCain and will lose both houses of Congress for us again

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. Wow. I'm Impressed. You Spelled 'Lose' Right. Yay For You.

[populistdriven]

72. I made no personal insults to you. Yet you insist on insulting me personally. PLONK

welcome to my ignore list

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. OMC: The Intellectually Challenged's Worst Nightmare.

Thank you, thank you. Woooohooo!!!!

God I love when the ignoramuses put me on ignore! It just, just, just, I dunno, brings a sparkle to my spirit.

[roguevalley]

116. I have read your posts, OMG for a long time. You enjoy making

people feel stupid. I pity that. But then, you know you are making people feel stupid. Yet you do it anyway. Too bad. Go ahead. Slag me too. I don't mind.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

120. You Just Go On Defending People Who Declare On DU That John McCain's Better Than Hillary.

I'll just keep on sittin here laughing at your feeling pity for me. :hi:

(oh, and there's no G anywhere in operation mindcrime. Just wanted you to know that)

[roguevalley]

123. no. I don't defend them. And I know you like to mock people because

it makes you feel good. Whatever.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

126. Youuuuuuu Just Go On Defending People Who Come Here And Declare McCain As Better Than Hillary.

You keep on doin that pal ok? Why, it just makes you the most honorable DU'er ever!!!! Yay for you!!! Yay!!!!! DU's hero!!!!

Don't mind me if I just sit back and continue to laugh my ass off, k? :hi:

[bunnies]

132. Wait a second.

Hillary declared that McCain was better than Obama. How soon we forget.

[splat]

69. 'Over time' - we had to learn that; now that it's here, they say we're dinos and it's their time!

I also think you should start a new post with this insight.

[Arkansas Granny]

100. Very well said OMC.

[Mooney]

122. Almost everyone who initially gets into politics has some degree of naivete.

It takes many years of voting and, yes, getting your heart broken by politicians and politics before losing that.

I first became eligible to vote in 1987, and Bill Clinton was the first vote I ever cast for someone who actually won. When he did, I thought the country was going to change on some fundamental level as a result, or that his election was reflective of some huge change in the American people. It took some years of taking my lumps before I realized that this wasn't the case at all. But I still had to have those experiences of voting idealistically and voting under the mistaken assumption that I was part of a movement to permanently turn the United States into a liberal utopia.

If young people are voting, it's a good bet that it's for reasons that are not entirely realistic, since they're new to the whole process. But that's how we get clear-eyed voters down the road. So the catch-22 is that if we want the Democratic party to be a majority party we have to do it with an infusion of young voters, all of whom cast their votes for the "wrong" reasons, and who will become disillusioned in 2012, as you said, when they figure out that President Obama was nothing but a mere politician and an agent of compromise.

I was very disappointed in Bill Clinton's presidency, but a lot of that was a result of my own naive bubble getting burst. Still, I didn't stop voting. And I think the majority don't no matter how disappointed they get initially. Hopefully, these kids voting for Obama for all the wrong reasons will stay with the party and stay with the process when the liberal utopia does not come to pass.

[racaulk]

134. .

:applause:

[citizen snips]

73. I am a young and I have to agree with that statement.

Too many young people are buying into this hope and change theme. If Obama wins the nomination and gets a beating in the debate then reality will set in. If Obama can't deliver on his proposals than young voters will abandon him.

[Duke Newcombe]

79. Yeah...they need to understand...

...that "the program" = "Whatever the power elite of the party wants". Yeah, how dare they actually, you know, believe that the people actually are allowed to determining crap. Just sit down, send in your donations, vote how we tell you, and shut the fuck up.

I'm glad you're here to set them straight.

Duke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. Nice To See Points Go Over Your Head So Easily.

Hey, at least they didn't mess up your hair while on their way...

[Duke Newcombe]

85. Your "point" (as it were) was perfectly "gotten"...

The young whipper-snappers are idealistic and foolish by not accepting your candidate, and should just lower their expectations, and go for the conventional choice. I get it. I just think it's a shitty way to vote, or go as a party. Clear enough?

Queensryche is getting more embarrassed with each post.

Duke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. ZZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!! Watch Your Hair!!!!!!!!

[Duke Newcombe]

90. I'm unclear...

...as to what allusions to things whizzing over hair does to bolster your tenuous grasp on a point. If you don't believe that people should be free to support the candidate they choose, perhaps the Democratic Party isn't the party for you.

Duke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

91. Unclear Indeed...

[Duke Newcombe]

93. OMC...why do you hate Democracy?

Duke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

94. Because I'm Hitler. Didn'tcha Know?

Someday, may god grant you the wisdom to actually understand the point.

Until then, peace be with you.

[Duke Newcombe]

97. Then I leave you with this...

Got no love for politicians
Or that crazy scene in D.C.
It's just a power mad town
But the time is ripe for changes
There's a growing feeling
That taking a chance on a new kind of vision is due

Brush up some, and get back to me.

Duke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

98. Tell Me,

Can you show me where it says to take your ball, go home, and cry when it all doesn't end up perfect with shining rainbows after the first try?

Thanks. :hi:

(Again... zzzzzzooooooooommmmmm, over your head)

[roguevalley]

117. he likes to do this with people. he enjoys it. don't take the bait.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

121. Awwwww That's So Cute.

C'mere... Let me rub your head my little pet.

God I love my fan club!!!

[Duke Newcombe]

127. Yes, I really do like to...

...get straight answers from people instead of posturing. I do in fact enjoy intelligent conversation. Your friend that you are so quick to defend gave none of those--just dismissiveness.

If I get arrested, can you be my attorney, too? :shrug:

Duke

[mudesi]

102. I agree

Give it to Clinton. Let's have McCain win. It'll teach those youngsters a lesson or two.

:eyes:

[roguevalley]

114. and maybe, OMG, that's a crock of crap. the world is really focusing

now and if you think the SD are going to undo what their constituents did, then I think they would not risk the hell kicking they would get back home. no one has to accept squat.

[Juche]

57. true

http://www.yda.org/tools/19/youth-statistics

"The 2008 election cycle is crucial to the consolidation of a Democratic youth base. Studies have shown that if a voter casts a ballot for one political party three elections in a row, they are likely to remain a loyal party voter for the rest of their lives. If young voters are mobilized to vote for Democrats in the 2008 election cycle, as they were in 2004 and 2006, we will successfully create a bloc of young voters who make voting – and voting for Democratic candidates – part of their civic identity. But, young people will only turn out when targeted, communicated with, and made to feel included in the process......By 2015, this generation will make up one-third of the electorate"


Obama pulls my generation alot better. However, I think the big risk to the dems is being to pussified. If the dems win huge majorities in the senate, congress and the executive branch and don't do anything (no trials, no investigations, no alt. energy) then the enthusiasm will die.

[bunnies]

59. Excellent post. You make some great points.

And thanks for sharing that stat. 1/3 of the electorate by 2015. Wow. Thats mindblowing.

Its true that Obama, by being the candidate he is, has taken on a lot of responsibility. If he wins this nomination and the Presidency, the future of the party is on his shoulders.

[Slagathor]

61. If Hillary gets the nod, the Democrats lose the future

Hillary is the voice of a failed past, and it's time for these dinosaurs to slump off into the sunset.

[splat]

62. Sorry, this dino is just peaking

[bunnies]

65. creepy.

And also: Dino = Democrat In Name Only. Heads up. Im sure thats not what you meant.

[Skidmore]

88. Demosaurs.

[Slagathor]

115. DINO-sours (nt)

[WolverineDG]

64. For the Hillary crowd that doesn't believe this

here's some similarly-worded drivel from a Hillary supporter in the Texas Democratic Party, Chris Bell:

"The last lesson for now has to do with the thousands of young voters who have been drawn into the process because of Barack Obama. I hope it's not a lesson that will drive them away.

Politics is a rough business and things don't always turn out the way we think they should. I don't offer that to be condescending. My greatest fear is that Barack's thousands of young Texas followers will be disenchanted and no longer wish to participate. That would be a real tragedy."

This after he states he made his decision to back Hillary because of her appearance in El Paso. :eyes: So, the Clinton crowd is already aware that this can happen; they just don't give a damn if it does.

dg

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

68. I accept that possibility.

I think Obama is a certain loser, but that nominating him might still be best for the Party long term. It's a damn complicated question.

[splat]

71. Party's over if women are dissed and Obama loses; kids think he can't lose, but he will

[polichick]

76. Democrats risk losing four generations...

If insiders are foolish enough to go against the will of the people, many of us will still vote Dem this Nov. in order to keep the Republicans out ~ but then we'll organize a true progressive party.

[splat]

82. You're going to found the Obama party?

[Duke Newcombe]

92. Or conduct an "insurgency" in the Democratic Party...

...and purge the deadweight.

Duke

[polichick]

104. I think the powers-that-be know better than to mess with the people's choice this time...

Some heavyweight players have thrown their support behind Obama, Pelosi has spoken out about the supers voting the way of the people ~ and Al Gore & others are waiting in the wings to make sure that the Democratic party behaves in a democratic way.

[LuvMyPorsche]

77. hey

bottom line... Obama will NOT win enough delegates to send him to the big dance.

It will come down to the convention and that's like Overtime in football. The first four quarters mean nothing. It's all about the convention.

[texas_indy]

103. Wrong analogy. It would be a "coup d’état" by the party elite if the super delegates

don't support the person with the majority of delegates.

Lets see, you state: "It will come down to the convention and that's like Overtime in football. The first four quarters mean nothing."

Every game I've every attended or seen never had the spectators voting and deciding which team gets how many points and when.

I've only seen games where the teams WON points based on the play of the actual TEAM MEMBERS.

[Raine]

83. On target

and sadly this is most likely what will happen. :-(

[Arkansas Granny]

99. Nobody wants to alienate young voters, but we have to be realistic about something.

Historically, they are the least likely group to turn up at the polls to vote in the GE. I know they are excited right now about Obama and they are turning out in record numbers to vote for him in the primaries, but will that excitement last until November? Will they turn out in sufficient numbers to have a real impact on the GE? I have to give my support on the person I believe is best suited for the position, not on the candidate who may or may not be able to draw a certain group of voters to the polls.

[GarbagemanLB]

124. So they are more motivated to turn out in the PRIMARIES than the general? I don't get that logic.

[Arkansas Granny]

125. I haven't seen any figures one way or another to show me that their involvement

in the primaries leads to involvement in the GE. Maybe they'll turn out and maybe they won't. Historically, however, young voters consistently have had the lowest percentages of voting turnout in the GE in comparison to other age groups.

[RiverStone]

101. I agree 200%

As in I really, REALLY think this message must be taken to heart.

If the worst happens, many young and (older) Dems would walk away from the party in utter disgust!

I'll support either nominee (tho prefer BHO) provided that candidate represents the will of the pledged delegates - it would be a disaster if the SD's turned that over - it would fuck with a generation of support if that includes giving the finger to the popular vote on top of that.

We already had one election stolen - I can't fathom our own stealing the next one.

[Barack_America]

119. FYI. The Free Press is one of the largest papers in the Detroit Metro area.

Really, the most widely regarded paper for Democrats in the region.

[metalluk]

128. Nonsense.

Most Americans have trouble remembering who was the losing candidate in the last General Election, much less those defeated in the primaries. Most Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. Fifteen percent of Americans think Obama is Muslim. Most Americans can't even hold onto a thought for a week much less a grudge for a generation. You will never go broke underestimating the attention span of the public. Each election has its new issues and new personalities and nobody thinks about what happened four years ago.

Nice try with the transparent scare tactics, however.

[Scurrilous]

129. K & R

:kick:

[better tomorrow]

130. they could all march in protests like us boomers did back

in the 60's. Don't give up, kids, if it doesn't go your way. There is strength in numbers...

[autorank]

131. K*R They young voters WILL NOT sit out the eletion if HRC gets it.

They will say a big farewell to the Democratic Party for a while because they will feel betrayed.

They've already been betrayed by the Republicans, who bequeath a world of garbage and few opportunities.

They will join with a guaranteed national third party movement, probably not lead by Obama since
factions in the corporate media is going to continue it's attack of 1000 slashes.

Remember 1992. Perot would have won if he hadn't blown it on a couple of high profile appearances
and statements. He was leading.

You've got those folks, the Perot supporters - essentially populist - and the under 30's and one
lousy situation and voila - 3rd party movement time.

But what can you expect us to do after we get the House and Senate in 2006 and don't do a damn thing
about getting out of Iraq or any of the other atrocities of these monsters in the WH?

[Texas Hill Country]

135. so you support freeper rhetoric when it suits you obama supporters?

such BS... god, i hate the hypocracy!