Can we afford to lose the White House on the gamble of a dreamer spiritually married to a bigot prea

[rodeodance]

Lots of issues raised here.




http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977285439


by Sherwood M.
March 15, 2008 10:14 PM EDT

Why Obama is a LIAR-The Jeremiah Wright Connection

As much as it saddens me, it seems that those who support Obama do so at all costs, are willing to ignore truths placed right before their eyes. Much as groups like La Raza does against those that speak up against illegal aliens, Obama followers seem quick to jump into any thread that paints Obama in a negative light and play the race card, accusing us of some sinister agenda against a black man, accusing us of carrying out some evil agenda of either Hillary Clinton or John McCain and the Republican Right. Watching the news I am disturbed that black political pundits are suggesting Obama's disturbing connections to Jeremiah Wright should be allowed to die a natural death, even suggesting that we as "White People" are hearing things wrong, do not understand the "Black Perspective." Funny, do not remember the Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's of the world letting charges of white hate speech dying until after the offending party had lost their career.



Close your eyes, or pretend you do not know the ethnic origins of the parties involved in this brewing scandal that could take down Obama, potentially end not just his run for the Presidency, but his political career. If you heard Reverend Jeremiah Wright's words, read them on a printed page, are they hate speech? It is a simple yes or no question, and if you answer yes, then should Reverend Wright, Senator Obama be held to the same standards of accountability that we hold our white politicians to? Do a cursory search of the internet, and there are numerous examples of fallen politicians, run out of our nation's capital for far less offensive speech than we are hearing from the Reverend Wright's lips.



Senator George Allen (R)……..



Time out, lets examine some FACTS. Obama claims that he wants to be a Uniter, wants America and its citizens to come together as one to solve our problems. Why then does he attend a church that has a long standing reputation as being a boiling cauldron of devision falling along racial lines? Reverend Jeremiah Wright was a controversial man long before Obama credited him as being the man who showed him Jesus, credited him with being "my spiritual mentor", long before Barrack Obama wrote his book based on a Wright sermon, "The Audacity of Hope". These realities, known facts easy to find show that Obama lies when he claims he was unaware of the controversy, unaware of Jereimiah Wright's bigoted, racist hate filled speech.



As example, a regular part of the bread of life spewed forth from Wright's pulpit of hate are expressions like, "white arrogance" and "the United States of White America." Not exactly phrases that fit in with Barack Obama's message of consensus based upon a platform of shared faith combined with bipartisanship in government. More importantly, we know Obama has been in the pews when certain hate speech was delivered, such as on July 22, 2007 when both of the above phrases were peppered at the audience. Perhaps Obama should have taken a cue from Oprah, once a congregant, who distanced herself from both the church and the man.



Obama has been attending the "Trinity Church of Christ", building a strong personal relationship with Jeremiah Wright since the 80's when the skeptical Obama became a community organizer in the Chicago area, their friendship spanning decades. You can find numerous examples of Obama's praise of the man, and his message, many of them written or spoken by Obama himself. Obama credits Wright with converting him to Christianity, yet would have us believe he had no clue of the hateful bigoted racist remarks attributed to Jeremiah Wright? Does a Harvard graduate, the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review expects us to be so naοve? Consider this:

…………..These are inconvenient truths for Barack Obama, and perhaps for the black community. It lends validity to our call for a full rebuke of Jeremiah Wright, a complete severing of Obama's relationship with the man, and the church. That creates problems for Barack, because in his community Jeremiah Wright has done no wrong, is a well respected even revered man of god. Could potentially see a major segment of the Black Community abandon Barack, withdraw their support from his campaign.


Unfortunately, this scandal has exposed a very ugly truth...not all, but many blacks themselves are guilty of the same sin they accuse whites of...RACISM in all of its ugly truth. This tragic set of events, Jeremiah Wright's ugliness has exposed a horrendous double standard wherein it is the black community guilty of demanding equality while deny that same gift to others. It raises the question, how can we have racial equality and justice for all when hatred and separation are being preached from the pulpit of America's Black Churches? More important, how can we believe Barack Obama's message of oneness, of inclusion when he embraces a church and a minister that embraces and ministers hate of all things white? There is a simple truth in life, it takes two people to fight, but it also takes two people to heal.



Obama cannot serve two masters, cannot be America's President without facing this problem head on, and honestly...so far, he has done neither. To address any issue, to become a better person we must first be honest with ourself...Obama is lying when he claims no prior knowledge, there are too many examples of Wright's controversy that have caught the attention of the American Media:

…….

· Wright on 9/11: ,,,,,,"


· Wright on Israel: "…..


These are all examples of Jeremiah Wright's hate speech spoken before Obama had invited the man to give the opening remarks the day he announced his presidency...an invite rescinded on the advice of senior staffers. Eyebrow raising and controversy are Wright's calling card, have been since 1984 when he visited Muammar Gaddafi three years after Libyan fighter jets fired on US aircraft in International Waters, and four years before the Libyan bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. These facts, these examples of hate speech make Obama look stupid when he claims ignorance, bring into question his ability to be a Senator, let alone our next president.



Instead of being honest, instead of rebuking both the man and the words, Obama has tried instead to excuse his behaviors, give him a free pass with comments such as:



* New York Times-"We don't agree on everything. I've never had a thorough conversation with him about all aspects of politics."

…….

* Justifying Wrights Hate Speech-Obama attributed views to Wright being "a child of the 60s"..."expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism, and the struggles the African-American community has gone through."

When Wright's minions expressed disappointment at Jeremiah Wright not giving the invocation the day Obama announced his run for the Presidency, Obama's campaign issued a quick statement to the press wherein Senator Obama claims to be PROUD OF HIS PASTOR, and his church. Sorry, but the two positions do not jive...the invite was revoked because senior staff knew Wright could kill Obama's Campaign before it ever got off the launching pad, and this fact again makes Obama's claimed ignorance a lie. Despite apparent staff warnings, Obama if anything has been reluctant to put distance between himself and Jeremiah Wright.

………
One of Obama's campaign themes alleges conservative evangelicals have "hijacked" Christianity, ignoring poverty, AIDS, and racism...a core pillar of Jeremiah's hate speeches.

In an effort to build consensus between his new politics and faith, Obama's campaign launched a new Web page, http://www.faith.barackobama.com/ that prominently featured a testimonial from Jeremiah Wright………..

……….
Both Wright and Barack know this, are willing to roll the dice. Wright stated in a quote to the New York Times, "If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," and "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'" A calculated gamble...that does not sound like new politics, does not sound like change, but instead politics as usual. Obama refusing to call bigoted racist hate speech what it is, rebuke his friend and mentor because politically, right now during this contentious primary, he needs his help, even if he is a prejudiced bigot. Americans need to ask themselves a serious question, "Can we afford to lose the White House on the gamble of a dreamer spiritually married to a bigot preacher?

[JimGinPA]

1. Still Flogging That Expired Equine?

Tick, Tick, Tick... The clock is running out on your girl, wrap your head around it.

[rodeodance]

5. DO you think this issue is over?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. Code speak: If you don't support Obama, get the F*** of this forum.

We get it, you hate Hillary. We don't, and the party has a huge problem.

[Fredda Weinberg]

18. I belong on DU and Jeremiah Wright is dangerous. I know bigotry too well

and this is playing w/fire. I'm no fool ... but have lived through a race riot. Have you?

[JoFerret]

50. Wright is dangerous

This is not going away
Obama knew
If he is the nominee we will lose in November.


No need to say more really.

(Interesting about Oprah...)

[goldcanyonaz]

54. Might get swept under the run for a moment, but the soundbites will sink us in the GE.

[rodeodance]

60. oh yeah!!

[barb162]

58. Rodeodance , absolutely brilliant post!! k & r

[rodeodance]

64. another member directed me to it--said it was powerful. --yes it is. --This

issue-has stirred up a hornets nest.

[barb162]

73. Kudos to you for posting it.

I think his campaign financing is going to dry up fairly quickly and he'll have to drop out in a few weeks. He didn't put on a convincing show yesterday with all those interviews.

[rodeodance]

59. I know this must be hard for BO--but he really has to sever his ties to Wright completely.

[JoFerret]

68. Oprah sems to been smarter

Her message boards - btw - are alive with this controversy.

[rodeodance]

71. really--I have not looked--maybe later.-thanks

[barb162]

79. Yes he does and he resisted that mightily yesterday.

I think he came off poorly as no one can reasonably believe he never heard Wright talking like that in 20 years of attending that church.

[rodeodance]

111. This is the 'issue'

[Voice for Peace]

55. The RW Christians know all about Hell, too

but oddly don't seem to know much about Heaven.
Don't be a slave of irrational fear!

If you really WANT to be scared, watch the video of the
white lady who goes to Wright's church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioaChVw_pUw

[rodeodance]

87. that posted has been deleted. But, in response, I do think BO is playing

with fire, as you say.

[rodeodance]

24. And if you support Obama --shall I ask you to get off DU?

[Skip Intro]

20. Even if they stamp this out now, it will flare up bigger than ever in Nov. It ain't over.

[eileen_d]

26. Try to hide your glee.

[Skip Intro]

37. ?

[rodeodance]

76. you ASSume the poster is gleeful?---tsk tsk.

[barb162]

84. Are you a mindreader?

I think the issue is for the Democrats to win in the GE and if a candidate is so battered as Obama is now, maybe that candidate should leave the race voluntarily.

[eileen_d]

86. Ooh

like flies on shit, you're all on to me

[barb162]

102. Well, if that's what you're intuiting....

[rodeodance]

99. It may or may not be stomped. I really do not know--abc even news did

a good piece on it tonight.

[Voice for Peace]

40. yes, I think it's over.

[barb162]

67. It clearly isn't. It'll be talked up big on the shows tomorrow morning

and well after that. It's an issue that won't go away. Even if it fades over the next few weeks, the GOP will bring it up with ads over and over if Obama somehow gets the nomination. I don't see him getting the nomination, though, after this.

[rodeodance]

80. I heard it is all over the tabloids. I have not seen them--

[barb162]

100. I have. It's not looking good.

I also took a few peaks at FR and CU today a few times. Oh they're in a really good mood. The only thing they seem to be upset about is they wished this to come out after the convention with Obama as the winner. Then they could slam him right down if he were the nominee. But if it does turn out he is the nominee, they will use this against him anyway. It fell right into their laps like manna from heaven and they'll use it.

[thunder rising]

15. The thrill of running over a dead cat ... the 50th time.

[rodeodance]

27. I get no thrill out of this serious discussion.

[Voice for Peace]

49. You are just so rong about Wright.

[rodeodance]

57. here is one issure he brings up:--imho he is right:

Time out, lets examine some FACTS. Obama claims that he wants to be a Uniter, wants America and its citizens to come together as one to solve our problems. Why then does he attend a church that has a long standing reputation as being a boiling cauldron of devision falling along racial lines? Reverend Jeremiah Wright was a controversial man long before Obama credited him as being the man who showed him Jesus, credited him with being "my spiritual mentor", long before Barrack Obama wrote his book based on a Wright sermon, "The Audacity of Hope". These realities, known facts easy to find show that Obama lies when he claims he was unaware of the controversy, unaware of Jereimiah Wright's bigoted, racist hate filled speech.

[Voice for Peace]

63. This may help you prove your point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioaChVw_pUw

[rodeodance]

103. ah yes--sawe that earlier. good reminer. thank you.

[barb162]

93. And them's the facts.

His actions and words don't come together. He had 20 years to get out of that church and away from Wright and he didn't.

[rocktivity]

31. ..

rocknation

[rodeodance]

82. I never beat animals, alive or dead.

[barb162]

62. Hmmmm... Who dropped in the polls overnight?

Your boy? Check Rasmussen

[JoFerret]

101. If I called your candidate a male child

would you be upset and call me a racist?

[hueyshort]

135. troll, troll, troll

silence the truth at all costs.,

[wileedog]

2. Yup

I think they are going to take the vote away from white people if Obama is elected.

For sure there will be separate water fountains again. We'll see where us white folk get to sit on the bus.

[marmar]

3. What a load of bollocks.....

Sherwood M. is a real dumbass.....

[angie_love]

4. Yes we can

[eileen_d]

6. More quotes taken out of context

More guilt by association
I see no proof that Obama is a "LIAR"

And I haven't even drunk the damn Koolaid.

[rodeodance]

9. which ones are you concerned about?--what about his broader issues?

[eileen_d]

16. which whats am i concerned about?

I am personally am not concerned about Obama's ties to Pastor Wright. I am somewhat concerned about it in terms of how it affects his chances in the general election, how Wright's quotes could be taken out of context as they are in this article and used to demonize Obama. I am a bit tired of the issue being beaten like a dead horse on this board. I should probably just call it a night.

[rodeodance]

30. did you read the whole article ?

[eileen_d]

33. I did.

I didn't understand what you were asking me.

[rodeodance]

43. you asked me a question--I thought you could find the argument of the article.

[eileen_d]

66. Well, the initial argument is a stretch

Sherwood M. tries to compare this to Allen's "Macaca" moment and other racist gaffes, when obviously the words in question were Wright's and not Obama's. Then he says well, "Obama has embraced both the comments and the man, then turned around and lied about it, hoping it will all just go away" -- where is the evidence Obama "lied"? Aha, that does come later, now that I re-read the article.

Seriously, what would you have the man do? Drop out of the race, I suppose, because of his background. Fuck this, I'm going to bed.

[rodeodance]

69. How about severing his ties to the paster/or the church?

[eileen_d]

77. You say that like it's throwing out a kleenex

I'm not a churchgoer myself, but I would imagine leaving a church and the close-knit community with it after 20-odd years just to appease voters who are scared of "angry black preachers" would not be a fun and easy decision to make.

And I'm not even one of those voters.

[rodeodance]

85. I can well imagine that blacks- for the most part would be upset with him. catch 22??

[eileen_d]

88. I'm talking about him personally

and his family. Although I suppose I agree with you too.

[rodeodance]

92. oh, for sure--yes, i think i posted that previously. Of course it would be-and

politically--if this goes on, he will have to make a choice.

[barb162]

96. He had every day of 20 years to get out of that church and he didn't

I can only conclude he liked the radical racist message he was hearing there. He was and REMAINS close to Wright. WHY?

[eileen_d]

98. You know it was a radical racist message because

you saw a few clips on YouTube?

[barb162]

116. Do I have to see 100 clips? What I saw was plenty.

Plus it's not unknown for a long time that he has ties to Farrakhan, etc.

[The Doctor.]

29. You said there was a "Lie"... where is it? You said there was "hate speech"...

Where's that?

Reality too difficult to manage for you?

[rodeodance]

32. Can you read?

[The Doctor.]

46. Can you write?

Look, it's simple; If there's a 'lie', what you do is you quote the 'lie' and then quote the source or sources that prove it's a 'lie'.

Here, let me help you with an example;

Rush Limbaugh; "The New York Times reported that WMDs were stolen in Iraq!"

The truth; "The New York Times has reported that dual use equipment that could be used to make WMDs was stolen in Iraq."

You see? It's really that simple. Now, posting an article which spends so much time not quoting the supposed 'liar' or sources to, uhhh... 'disprove' the 'lie' that isn't there, really doesn't do much to make the case that anyone lied.

Now, Tell us using quoted material; 'What was the 'lie', and how was it a 'lie'.

Can you do that?

[rodeodance]

53. talk nice and we can have a discussion

[The Doctor.]

70. I am. Perhaps you've noticed that I was reflecting you in my responses.

Now, I've asked the same question repeatedly, and instead of answering it you insulted me by insinuating that I could not read. Your credibility here is sliding downhill quickly.

Now, I'll ask again... nicely; "Can you please tell me just what 'lie' Obama committed and the facts that prove it's a lie? Can you give me some quotes demonstrating the 'hate speech' that you've mentioned as well?"

I asked nicely. Will you come up with another excuse not to answer, or will you enlighten me?

[rodeodance]

90. I think i got my responsed mixed up. sorry. anyway--The fact that BO

said he knew nothing about these inflammatory speeches/sermons

[The Doctor.]

112. How is that a lie?

Granted, I'm sure that Obama knew he was a baptist preacher, and therefore a firebrand, but does that mean he's heard every sermon?

We're talking about two very specific sermons I believe. One would have to believe that Obama has attended all of his sermons to be lying, one would also have to believe that he remembered all of them.

Is it possible he's lying? Sure, but he has some honest-to-goodness plausible deniability.

[rocktivity]

8. I'm a lot more worried about Hillary's spiritual marraige to the DLC.

:headbang:
rocknation

[KittyWampus]

10. and her membership in "The Fellowship" headed by Doug Coe her spiritual mentor

[blue neen]

11. Lee Atwater, is that you?

hmm...

[rodeodance]

44. RIP

[PerfectSage]

12. Would you rather lose the WH on the gamble on a political lesbian married to a serial adulterer?

lol

[rodeodance]

21. anyone in particular you are speaking of?

……….
Both Wright and Barack know this, are willing to roll the dice. Wright stated in a quote to the New York Times, "If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," and "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'" A calculated gamble...that does not sound like new politics, does not sound like change, but instead politics as usual. Obama refusing to call bigoted racist hate speech what it is, rebuke his friend and mentor because politically, right now during this contentious primary, he needs his help, even if he is a prejudiced bigot. Americans need to ask themselves a serious question, "Can we afford to lose the White House on the gamble of a dreamer spiritually married to a bigot preacher?

[Voice for Peace]

47. Yah... I think they have been secretly plotting with the Muslims for a while now

and all the white folks are going to be rounded up and put in those new Halliburton camps... probably waterboarded.

[PerfectSage]

56. You say biggoted racist hate speach. I say the truth

I'm speaking of Hillary and Bill. Just started reading Klein's: The Truth about Hillary; How hard will it be for Rove to rip Hillary to shreds as a "political lesbian"? I agree with Hillary's political lesbian stance and I agree with Wright's stance. I get it.

White racist kettle calls Wright black kettle: "Racist Kettle"?

From an ethical standpoint, I'd rather vote for Wright than a triangulting pos like Hillary.

[goldcanyonaz]

61. n/m not worth it.

[PerfectSage]

72. Whadda mean not worth it?

Reading Klein's: The truth about Hillary is like watching, Green Acres or News Radio. Absurdist commedy at it's best.

[JoFerret]

78. It it's truth why did Obama condemn it?

Can he be trusted?

[PerfectSage]

104. Isn't it obvious; To pander to self absorbed navel gazin' idiots like you.

Hillary represents change you can xerox; when you photocopy your Husband's corrupt butt for 8 years and 8 years latter try to pass it off as new and improved. Of course he can be trusted to be better. In 92 my instincts on Clinton: Run of the mill shitscum politician. In 2000 on Bush: Fucking idiot.

My instincts on Obama: Head and shoulders above Clinton or McCain. My dad taught me politicians are never to be trusted.

[dailykoff]

42. bwahaha

[PerfectSage]

65. bwahaha back atcha

When I think about it, I really, really want to vote for an egotistical babyboomer creep, married to an "alpha male" babyboomer creep.

[JoFerret]

75. Crikey!

We can get a lesbian in the WH? Hurray! At last. I hope she's an atheist.Is it Oprah? Cos she had the good sense to steer clear of the good reverend .

[PerfectSage]

106. 2 thumbs up for a good sense of humour.

[emilyg]

89. What???

[Frances]

14. The far right will use Wright

against Obama. But it's good that this has come out now rather than later. I think Obama will be able to convince people that he is not an angry black man, which is what the Wright thing is all about.

No candidate is perfect. Every candidate has flaws. We all need to admit that up front.

As for me, I think both Obama and Hillary are infinitely better than McCain.

[rodeodance]

36. so do I. I happen to think HRC policies are stronger-

[JoFerret]

83. And her ability to execute them.

Her grasp of policy is phenomenal and she has the work ethic and determination to get the job done. And boy - it there work to be done after this Bushcrew leaves.

[rodeodance]

94. oh my--i was thinking of a quick response--and here you have the perfect answer. thanks. yes.

[wileedog]

17. No, lets lose on the same old shit... nt

[enki23]

19. here's another article by that motherfucker:

Congressman King-Obama Elected As President Will Have Terrorists Dancing in the Streets?

"Barrack Hussein Obama claims Christianity as his religion, his choice in a nation that allows one the freedom of choosing their faith. His family heritage though has blood ties to the Muslim Faith, both his father and stepfather followers of Islam. That truth has a lot of Muslims following his political rise, rooting for him in this election season, to some degree see him as and claim him as one of their own. As the old adage goes, you are your father's son.


In our often too Politically Correct American society Congressman King's statements seem out of place, labeled and condemned as racist upon their delivery to our ears. However, he may have a real point, even if poorly presented. There may be dancing in the streets in far off places at the news of Barrack Obama's election as Muslims around the world celebrate his win, claim his victory as their own. That reality, the dancing in the streets is neither good nor bad, the intent behind it mattering far more, yet unknown at the time the dancing might occur."

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977279311&nav=Namespace

Christ, the asshole isn't even worth a piss as a writer, much less a pundit. Is he serious with this "...upon their delivery to our ears" line? Really? Dear lord, someone actually reads that dreck, much less finds it noteworthy? Next time you feel the need to find some inconsequential asshole with a blog to quote as a surrogate for your own opinion, you might want to find one who can write better than a mildly-retarded business major trying really hard to brown nose his freshman comp instructor. Oh, and one who doesn't find the racist musings of Congressman King to be fucking inspirational while you're at it.

[bhikkhu]

22. I'd say if we want to start a witch-hunt against outspoken preachers,

and then a round-up of their parishioners, it will be a cold and empty country that is left.

That is not the way things are here, when it comes down to it, and not the way anyone would wish it to be.

[thevoiceofreason]

23. Give it up, rodeo

Your candidate is dead meat. Please come help us kick McCain's ass. You are smart as hell. We need you and want you aiming at the true enemy.

[The Doctor.]

25. Ummm... I came into this thread with an Open Mind expecting to see an actual case...

So where is it?

There's no lie outlined anywhere in your post... nothing. Just a whole bunch of allegations of hate speech without ONE quote to back it up.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Actually, I know the answer; It's desperation playing itself out.

Where's the 'hate speech'?
Where's the 'Lie'?

Traditionally one has to be able to cite a 'quote' that would indicate something of the sort. At least that's how it's done in reality.

[Umbram]

131. After a while

you recognize the users and learn to set your expectations accordingly.

For this poster, this was actually a pretty substantive OP, not that it's saying much.

[BringEmOn]

28. Just words!

[MethuenProgressive]

34. Which of these quotes best describe Pastor Wright's influence on Obama?

Chicago Tribune: "In Wright he had found both a spiritual mentor and a role model."
"Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated."
Vote for your pick: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5060038

[rodeodance]

51. Bingo--all of the above.

[Hissyspit]

35. Sigh...

"As much as it saddens me, it seems that those who support Hillary do so at all costs, are willing to ignore truths placed right before their eyes. Much as groups like La Raza does against those that speak up against illegal aliens, Hillary followers seem quick to jump into any thread that paints Hillary in a negative light and play the sexism card, accusing us of some sinister agenda against a woman..."

See how that works? All of this stuff is so useless.

[bobthedrummer]

38. "Truth Time: Wright Is Right" DF 3-15-2208 post at TPM Cafe

reposted at Common Dreams
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/15/7702/

[Johnny__Motown]

39. The preacher thing will blow over in a couple of weeks. Clinton's issues are more enduring

[rodeodance]

74. And you know that how?

[Major Hogwash]

41. Hillary already had her "macaca" moment, don't you think.

I mean, really, Hillary is a Democrat, as far as I know.

[rodeodance]

45. which moment would that be??

[NoodleyAppendage]

48. Keep plugging away at your delusional fears. I hear there's a corporate shill who wants your vote.

I've got news for you. A SIZABLE GROUP OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HATE HILLARY. These individuals will turn out just to vote AGAINST HER. Get a clue.

J

[rodeodance]

97. You are not discussing the OP, so I will not have anything further to say to you.

[creeksneakers2]

133. Last measure I saw

Hillary was at 51% negative and Obama was at 49%. I've given up on Hillary and its not about saying we told you so. The right wing will convince the same people who hate Hillary to hate Obama too. But we have to quit thinking that we have to duck when the right wing infects the masses with hatred. We are going to have to stick with Obama no matter how many people on the right hate him and no matter how many will show up to vote against him. This is what the Hillary supporters were trying to say. If you don't stand up to the right wing crusades they'll control everything, like they have for all but two years since 1981.

[bigbrother05]

52. Senator George Allen

really, talking points from George Allen, how soon we forget when we are blind

[noamnety]

81. I'm white. I'm not voting for Obama. Even I can tell this post is crap.

Any time you start trying to equate a critique of how white people have run this country into the ground through oppression and arrogance with a critique of how black people have run this country into the ground (with oppression and arrogance?), you need to stop and ask yourself, hold on here, have I lost all sense of history?

So, yes. "Lots of issues raised here." All of them ignorant.

(not voting for Clinton either, I signed a pledge not to vote for anyone who's been funding the war.)

[barb162]

105. This post is terrific and it goes to the heart of the problems

Obama has right now. It's very possible he's mortally wounded. His campaign is running very scared or else they wouldn't have had him running around yesterday to every damned media outlet and finally sitting down and answering questions for a change.

[rodeodance]

110. yes, they were running scared. It was amazing how quick this all happened.

[rodeodance]

115. who you

vote for is not my concern.

I listened to several of his tapes. America had not been good to all its peoples, esp. its minorites. yes, he seems so often to pit one group again another repeatedly.

And the issue which the author brings up has been brought up many times before--how it possible BO did not these inflamatory remarks. He says now he knew about a year ago--when he decided to run for president.
He choose then to stick by his pastor even though his pastor said there migh t come a time when a break would have to be.
It seems to me--BO and the party will bear the brute of this decision.
On the other hand, based on what i have read, if he does break--BO risks alienation from many blacks.

[noamnety]

121. lol

"he seems so often to pit one group again another repeatedly."

It isn't the black pastors who pitted whites against blacks in this country. It'd be good to remember that. All they're doing is truth telling. Not everyone wants to hear that truth, but keeping quiet about it is killing our black communities.

[blogslut]

91. And who says words don't matter?

One word is getting thrown around in such a callous fashion it makes me sick.

[kwassa]

95. This Hillary supporter says you are telling lies about Wright and Obama

here is the real story about Wright and his church.


http://www.ucc.org/news/chicagos-trinity-ucc-is.html

Chicago's Trinity UCC is 'great gift to wider church family'

Written by J. Bennett Guess
March 14, 2008

In the wake of misleading attacks on its mission and ministry, Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ is being lauded by United Church of Christ leaders across the nation for the integrity of its worship, the breadth of its community involvement and the depth of its commitment to social justice.

"Trinity United Church of Christ is a great gift to our wider church family and to its own community in Chicago," says UCC General Minister and President John H. Thomas. "At a time when it is being subjected to caricature and attack in the media, it is critical that all of us express our gratitude and support to this remarkable congregation, to Jeremiah A. Wright for his leadership over 36 years, and to Pastor Otis Moss III, as he assumes leadership at Trinity."

Thomas says he has been saddened by news reports that "present such a caricature of a congregation that been such a great blessing."

"These attacks, many of them motivated by their own partisan agenda, cannot go unchallenged," Thomas emphasizes. "It's time for all of us to say 'No' to these attacks and to declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends."

Located in the heart of Chicago's impoverished Southside, Trinity UCC's vast array of ministries include career development and college placement, tutorial and computer services, health care and support groups, domestic violence programs, pastoral care and counseling, bereavement services, drug and alcohol recovery, prison ministry, financial counseling and credit union, housing and economic development, dozens of choral, instrumental and dance groups, and diverse programming for all ages, including youth and senior citizens.

Thomas, a member of Pilgrim Congregational UCC in Cleveland, has attended worship at Trinity UCC on a few occasions -- most recently on March 2 -- and sys he is "profoundly impressed" with the 6,000-member congregation.

Among Trinity UCC's crowning achievements, Thomas says, is its work with young people.

"While the worship is always inspiring, the welcome extravagant, and the preaching biblically based and prophetically challenging, I have been especially moved by the way Trinity ministers to its young people, nurturing them to claim their Christian faith, to celebrate their African-American heritage, and to pursue higher education to prepare themselves for leadership in church and society," Thomas says.

'Exceedingly gracious'

The Rev. Steve Gray, the UCC's Indiana-Kentucky Conference Minister, describes Trinity UCC as a "jewel."

"It's everything a Christian community is supposed to be," says Gray, who has been working with Trinity UCC for the past three years to develop a new UCC congregation in Gary, Ind. "Trinity has given well over $100,000 in support of its partnership with us, and in 15 months of regular meetings with Jeremiah Wright, we always found him to be a man of gracious hospitality, humor, generosity, who paid attention to detail but also a man who does not call attention to himself."

Trinity UCC has been involved in planting more than 15 new congregations, according to the UCC's Evangelism Ministry in Cleveland.

Gray, a member of First Congregational UCC in Indianapolis, has worshiped several times at Trinity UCC and is most impressed by the overflowing sense of welcome it extends to visitors.

"When you're Euro-American, the people are so exceedingly gracious, warm and welcoming. They hug you and say, 'Welcome to our church!'"

Many, including Gray, point with appreciation to Trinity UCC's generous support of denominational and ecumenical ministries. From 2003 to 2007, Trinity UCC gave more than $3.7 million to Our Church's Wider Mission, the UCC's shared fund for connectional mission and ministry.

'Extraordinary outreach'

The Rev. Bennie Whiten, retired Massachusetts Conference Minister who prior served for 15 years as associate director of Chicago's Community Renewal Society, says, "Trinity was one church that we could always rely on to respond almost immediately. They have been very, very involved in the community in so many meaningful ways."

Noting the church's work in health care, early childhood education and economic development, Whiten says, "The scope of their concern and outreach is extraordinary. It's really just an outstanding congregation."

Whiten, a member of Pilgrim UCC in Oak Park, Ill., is especially taken with Trinity UCC's commitment to the need and importance of quality theological education. More than 60 members of Trinity UCC are currently enrolled in seminary and pursuing masters-level degrees. Moreover, the congregation pays for students' tuition costs.

"They firmly believe in the UCC's commitment to an educated, seminary-trained clergy," Whiten said, "and they have probably had more people feeling the call to ministry than any other church in the denomination."

The Rev. Susan Thistlethwaite, president and professor of theology at UCC-related Chicago Theological Seminary, says Trinity UCC is a model church in the way it supports its people in discerning and cultivating their gifts for ministry, both lay and ordained.

"Another thing I really appreciate about Trinity is that its ministries are always directed both inward, toward the congregation itself, and also outward in supporting other congregations ecumenically and supporting community organizations that are dedicated to lifting up the wider society," Thistlethwaite says. "We have had so many fine students come through Chicago Theological Seminary who were helped to discern their call to ministry through this church's dedication to serving the wider church."

'Jesus and justice'

The Rev. Kenneth L. Samuel, pastor of Victory UCC in Stone Mountain, Ga., says he is impressed that Trinity UCC "promotes spirituality and piety while also being emphatic about social justice."

While Trinity UCC is the denomination's largest congregation, Samuel's 5,300-member church is the UCC's second largest. Founded in 1987, it joined the UCC in 2004.

"Trinity was really one of the churches that inspired me to want to affiliate with the United Church of Christ," Samuel said. "My church was originally National Baptist and Southern Baptist, but it was the critical-thinking that brought to this work, the justice work, that helped me to want to become a part of the denomination. I have no regrets about that."

Samuel says that, during Wright's 36-year ministry at Trinity, Wright has not been afraid to tackle difficult topics, while staying equally committed to preaching "Jesus and justice."

"There have been two major sins in the Black church that many Black churches will not address – homophobia is one and sexism is another," Samuel says, "and Jeremiah Wright has been one of the articulate, courageous voices that has not been afraid to address these critical issues. If he can do that and still maintain his close connectivity to the Black community, and stay grounded in the Black ethos, that's what has inspired me."

'Speaks well for us'

Carol Brown, national president of United Black Christians and a member of Cleveland's Mt. Zion UCC for more than 50 years, describes Trinity UCC as "the flagship church of the United Church of Christ."

"I think it's very interesting that a minority group within a denomination can have the largest church, support the most ministries and give the largest number of OCWM dollars," Brown says. "That speaks well for us as an accepting, open and affirming denomination. Especially, as a justice-oriented church, sets a standard for all the denomination that all are welcome."

Brown, who worships at Trinity UCC when in Chicago for meetings, says she is most taken by its exuberant spirit.

"It's certainly a very welcoming church, and it's certainly very reaffirming of the faith when people join in such large numbers when there's an altar call," Brown says. "It's something that you don't see in the average church. God is certainly at work there, and it's exciting when you see that many people stand up to witness to their faith and step forward."

[rodeodance]

107. Thank you, i had not seen this. It speaks highly of him and his church.

[barb162]

108. I notice none of this deals with Wright's racist , anti-American rants

that have been on TV the last few days. Do you find it odd that this long defense talks around everything but that?

[eileen_d]

109. Do you think maybe it's because there's more to the church

than the racist, anti-American rants you keep dwelling on?

[barb162]

113. You're avoiding the point of what's been all over TV the last three days

And it isn't the value of that church to the communities. It's the racist, anti-American ranting of Wright. That's the issue here and Obama's response to it. Hey, he wouldn't have been scurrying around to every damned major TV station and newespaper Friday if his campaign wasn't scared shitless. Why is Obama dwelling on precisely the same thing you tell me I'm dwelling on if it isn't the primary issue? BTW, I am sure most of the ministers of that church are preaching a message of Christian peace, good works, etc. But that is not the issue at hand.

[eileen_d]

114. And you're harping on the point

I know it's the topic of the thread, so perhaps saying "For fuck's sake, give it a rest" isn't appropriate. Therefore I won't say it. I really will go to bed this time, honest!

[barb162]

118. Who is harping? I'm glad you finally noticed the subject matter.

Have a nice evening.

[kwassa]

144. Wright is neither racist nor anti-American

but apparently you have decided that he is based on a big fat misunderstanding of what he is talking about.

like many others here.

[Kool Kitty]

117. Most of what's been all over the TV in the past

few days in this area is non-stop Eliot Spitzer. And then the obligatory "Politicians with Sex Scandal Problems" items and guess who has been featured in all of them? Bill & Hill & Monica. Who gives a shit what has been on TV the past few days. Obama came out and explained, I consider it done. The Bill-Monica thing? Done and done to death. (That really was nobody's else's business anyway.) I want to hear about the issues, not the gotcha shit.

[barb162]

119. In my area, it was Spitzer until the Wright story broke.

And then the Obama /Wright story has been the main story on all the local and national news. I think this is a valid and important issue and Obama hasn't fully straightened it out yet. He may not be able to do so. Many people happen to give a shit about this story or else it wouldn't be all over this forum the last two-three days. It's unavoidable unless you tune out all news.

[Kool Kitty]

120. There is a lot to be straightened out in both campaigns,

I think. I'm sure people do give a shit about it. (Living in NJ, I guess that it's a given that Spitzer would take precedence. Not much else happening around here. Tonight it's been all about the crane collapse.)

[judaspriestess]

122. Excellent article

Thank you for posting. It raises concerns that should be addressed. Not just ignored.

[HuffleClaw]

123. well put indeed

and no, i don't think this one is over, not by a long shot.

[Egnever]

124. LOL

um ok

[Pushed To The Left]

125. Don't let the right wing "Hannitize" you! n/t

[rodeodance]

143. What I will not do is allow BO to fool me like he has so many.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

126. Rodeo...I think you might want to think a bit about the course your going down, seriously.

No one who considers themselves a progressive quotes George Allen. I think that your desire to see Hillary as president is making you blind to the lengths you're going to. In the end I suspect that you'll have not only have a broken heart, but a broken soul...

[rodeodance]

130. The point is that BO wants it both ways--both a transender and a divisive character--it

is problem not mine.

[Forkboy]

132. I'm afraid to ask, but what's a "transender"?

[rodeodance]

134. supposedly BO is the tanssender -At least that is what his campaign says. But, no more.

[Forkboy]

138. I guessing you mean "transcender" then.

I don't really think he is, but that's why he isn't my pick.

[rodeodance]

142. yes, that is hat i mean--My attempt to coin a new word--and really I did

cause i thought it would stand out more. is not working.
Trans-send

you are right. i will drop it.
best

[Martin Eden]

145. You're saying Obama WANTS to be a divisive character?

On what do you base such an assertion?

[cooolandrew]

127. The only bigotry I see is this post Barack's half-sister is white so she hates her yes...

This is not what you expect from Democrats is shocking me big time here. Offending the base of the party is not smart. This is the party that enacted civil rights or is it the party of Reagan who was against that. Barack is half white entitled to disapporve at wrights statements as much as anyone.

[Leopolds Ghost]

128. NOT A SINGLE REPLY has noted the reference to "us" "us" "and WE AS WHITE PEOPLE"

God, DUers are easy to demagogue.

[robbedvoter]

129. And 911 being deserved for it...

[NDambi]

136. In another thread you injected and propped up Juan Williams' ..yeah you're useful GTFOH!

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

139. i am not a troll

[anonymeme]

141. And You, guidod, Are Violating DU Rules, See Inside Post for Specific Rule:

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or *troll*, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground. If you think someone is a disruptor, click the "Alert" link below their post to let the moderators know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai..

[dailykoff]

140. I seriously can't believe you're allowed to post RW crap like this.

Considering how ultra-sensitive this place is on the really grotesque and obvious issues, like the war and 911, it's kind of disheartening.

[Martin Eden]

146. "Reverend Jeremiah Wright's words ... are they hate speech?"

In a word, NO. There's anger in Wright's words, but more truth than hate in them.

It is true that Obama's connection to Wright could hurt him in the general election against McCain, but most of the OP is based on the false premise that Wright's sermons are racist & anti-American and that Obama endorses the controversial comments.