Does Dean have a chance in 2008 if Kerry fails in November?

[doubles]

Or is it Hillary's ticket?

I am getting worried about Kerry with him saying Bush or Kerry, terrorist lose. The man really is Bush-Lite. A man like Dean would be correcting the press saying the war in Iraq should never be called the "war on terror" because it isn't! Bush stopped fighting terrorist the minute he entered Iraq!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. You won't have to worry if Kerry looses

there goes the Constitution, and forget about elections.

Welcome to the one party system Norquist has been working so hard for the last 30 years

[loftycity]

3. Really true, this election is the big one.

:scared:

[Faygo Kid]

15. You are absolutely right. And the Dems will muddle about.

Clearly, the national party has no real clue about what is at stake. There will be no election in 2008 if Bush is "re-elected" (or, as he will prefer to think of it, that he is chosen by God, through the voters.)

[tedzbear]

52. Thanks to Diebold Kerry will lose anyway.

:nuke:

[BlueEyedSon]

2. If Kerry fails there are only 2 outcomes

1. There will never be another fair election, and the country will be toast.

2. The republicans will not win another election for 100 years after the mess(es) they made.

[Faygo Kid]

16. Number 1 will happen. Wish I was younger; Canada for me.

The Republicans won't need to "win" another election. There will be no elections. But it won't last 100 years. Fascism never does. Give it 25, tops. America as we have known it for 230 years, warts and all, ends with Bush being declared the victor in November.

[JHBowden]

4. Will it matter with 3 more Scalias on the court?

I think not.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Hillary.

She's the DLC(Don't Lament Conservatism) candidate.

[JI7]

6. when is Dean going to release his records ?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. He's going to have a joint unveiling with Theresa.

[JI7]

11. so Teresa running for president in 08 ?

she wasn't born in america so unless things change it wont matter.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Dean lost the primaries, so unless things change

it won't matter.

[JI7]

13. yes, but this was in response to the original post

about dean and 08. and losing the primary in 04 does not exclude one from running in a primary in 08.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Yup. But I replied to your post that also had nothing to do with the

original post.

when is Dean going to release his records ?


Post #6. Look it up, it's still there.

[JI7]

17. didn't dean say he would rather lose than release the records ?

at least that's what i remember from that article by his pollster.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Sure he did.

And didn't Theresa say:


"If my husband's presidency relies upon me releasing my tax returns, he's going down. I'll never relese them. Never. Ever. Never. Not, nuh-nuh, never. Nope. Not going to happen." www.bullshit.com


At least that's what I remember from that article by that guy who kind of looks like that other dude.

[JI7]

19. the atlantic monthly and paul maslin i believe is his name

you compare that to bullshit.com ?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. No. I compare Dean's records with Theresa's tax returns.

Meaningless.

I further compare Dean's release of his records with what will happen in 2008 with post #6. Even more meaningless.

[AP]

30. The only person with more delegates than Dean: Edwards

Of course, '08 would be a entirely different landscape. However, I think if you want to make an argument that Dean would be nominated in '08, you'd have to explain why he'd be able to do better than Edwards.

I can't think of any reason he would do better. Furthermore, I think Edwards proved to get better every day, whereas Dean sort of aged poorly, with the scream and spending so much money and getting nothing from it.

[pezcore64]

72. lol

im glad to see there are still active dean haters in the kerry supporters!
way to keep my vote!

[Classical_Liberal]

7. If Kerry keeps saying things like this

"No matter who wins the presidential election, the terrorists will lose."

He will lose and you bet Dean will be the next in line. No body will fall for a duplicitous dlcer ever again.

How the hell do you win an election against Bush by agreeing with Bush on the fucking war?

[JHBowden]

8. Kerry should say "the terrorists will win?"

That's almost as dumb as "yeeeargh!" my friend.

[Classical_Liberal]

9. Here's the link where he says it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-636907,curpg-1.cms

[napi21]

20. Get off the leftist attitude! All he was trying to do is strip Bush of

the "I'm the only one who can protect you" attitude.

What did you want him to say? If I'm elected, I'll immediately pull our troops out? You may like that, but Nationally, he would lose the election!

Remember, he HAS to appeal to MORE THAN 50% of the voters!!!

[doubles]

21. No, he should say the terrorists are winning on Bush, look at Spain

and continue to say what he will do to really take the fight to terrorists. Iraq was too costly in lives and money and a diversion from the real war on terror.

[Guaranteed]

23. HE CONCEDED FOREIGN POLICY LEGITIMACY TO BUSH.

WRONG.

[CTLawGuy]

42. exactly my feelings

George Bush's foreign policy is terrible. kerry needs to make the case that his foreign policy is different and better. By saying that terrorists will lose either way, he's inviting people to say, "well, why not just stay with the guy we have in office then?"


Kerry needs to differentiate himself from Bush on this issue.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

28. bwahahahahahaha... "Let's be honest here"

You crack me up. I could take your entire post apart point by point and embarass the hell out of you...

Typical "ditto head" rhetoric.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

39. ok... provided you're still around...

1) He needs to stop flip flopping on issues IF he is to be taken seriously.

Show us where he has flip flopped other than positions changed from 30 or more years ago. Bush, on the other hand, is the waffle king.

And, the fact that Kerry is pretty much even with Bush in the polls either shows he is taken seriously or that Bush isn't.

2) He can't talk about fuel economy on a public platform then it's found out he has an SUV, then he says, it's his family's not his, then admits its his wife's. He and the wife should have gotten on the same page BEFORE the election. This whole issue makes him appear weak. If he can't even run his own family, how is he going to run the country?

Why not? One can talk fuel economy and drive an SUV. Fact is, SUV's could be more fuel efficient.

3) His wife wasn't born in America.

So? Bush's wife killed someone while DUI.

4) He has the integrity of Ted Kennedy.

Which is more than GW Bush

5) He is trying to act like he is one of the 'common folk' yet he is married to one of the richest people in the world.

The Bushies made their forune trading with the Nazis.

6) His Vietnam history with veterans and Hanoi Jane, protests, senate hearings, throwing medals over fence which weren't his that he lied about, etc.

None of which the voting public seems to care about.

7) Let's be honest here, he doesn't stand a chance to beat President Bush.

Oh, don't forget, it takes the electoral college to win, not 50% of the votes. No sore losers this election, k?!!!!

UPI is reporting that an analysis of statewide presidential polls published Friday by The Hotline shows Sen. John F. Kerry, D-Mass., ahead in the electoral college.

The Hotline's study of reputable statewide polls conducted since January 1, 2004, has Kerry holding an overall lead in 13 states containing 204 electoral votes. President George W. Bush is currently leading in 16 states and has a total of 174 electoral votes out of the 270 necessary for election.

In states where either candidate leads by more than the poll's margin of error, Kerry is ahead in seven states with a total of 123 electoral votes while Bush leads in eight states with a total of 86 electoral votes.

The Hotline is a daily digest of important political news and polling data published by the National Journal.

See ya!

[rfkrocks]

31. couple of bush's weak areas

1. he's a moron
2. he is a tax and cut republican
3.he energy policy is tied to his personal financial interest see eg woodward book on Saudi connection
4. OSAMA BIN LADEN
5. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
6. Preemptive war for nothing
7. attacking Kerry as a rich man when he owned a friggin baseball team
and is incredibly wealthy himself
8. Ducked combat also see DIck the Deferrment Cheney
9. he lost in 2000 so 2004 will be the same
10. he lost iraq no sore losers on this point, k?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rfkrocks]

41. unfortunately life does not go on for 700 american soldiers

but what the hell you don't care anyway

[tedzbear]

53. Troll alert!!!!!!!!!!!!

RustlinOak is soooooooooo Repug. It's a dead giveaway.

:puke:

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Hrmmm could you be a TROLL?

A Republican type attack on Kerry on your first post. Yep, you look like a troll to me.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tedzbear]

54. No, trolls like to live near Oak trees...

...dripping with Spanish moss.

[rasputin1952]

40. Fools rush in, where angels fear to tread...

:)

[SidDithers]

51. buh bye...nt.

Sid

[Zorra]

58. You mean RESIDENT Bu$h.

He's not our President. He's just another unelected fascist. Like Hitler.

But we know an easy way to get rid of him.


Bu$h is just another former cheerleader that went AWOL from the National Guard.

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. Get off the rightist attitude. We will NOT tolerate another PNAC President

If Kerry was running on a progressive platform he WOULD appeal to more than 50% of the voters. Including those who will probably stay home because they can't justify voting for another fucking warmonger.

[wyldwolf]

29. WE? PROOF Kerry is PNAC?

Of course not. How silly of me to ask. Again.

[AntiCoup2K4]

37. As long is Will Marshall is involved in his campaign

he might as well be.

[wyldwolf]

38. might as well be?

s...t...r...e...t...c..h

[AntiCoup2K4]

48. Not a stretch at all when you consider the following....

George Bush Jr is NOT actually a member of PNAC. But those who write his foreign policy are. And we have seen the results of their sickening plans. What sane person would want any more of those policies, regardless of who was occupying the Oval Office?

[wyldwolf]

59. still a stretch

Marshall isn't in a Kerry administration and, thus, isn't developing a president's foreign policy. But if he was, this is what I would assume Kerry would map out for post-war Iraq:

1. America and Europe should again work together as partners and not as rivals.

2. The Iraqi people should establish a peaceful, stable, united, prosperous, and democratic country governed by a pluralistic system representative of all Iraqis and fully committed to the rule of law, the rights of all its citizens, and the betterment of all its people.

3. Our goal should be to progressively transfer authority to enable Iraqis to control their own destiny - not Americans, Europeans or international bureaucrats.

4. To rebuild a peaceful Iraq, The United States should seek passage of a Security Council resolution that endorses the establishment of a civilian administration in Iraq, authorizes the participation of UN relief and reconstruction agencies, welcomes the deployment of a security and stabilization force by NATO allies, and lifts all economic sanctions imposed following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait a decade ago.

If this is from Will Marshall, I have very little problem with it.

[tedzbear]

55. Right on AntiCoup2k!

Re: Iraq

The only difference is Kerry will work harder to get the UN to be the fig leaf for our occupation.

Meanwhile, we will still be controlling the oil, we will still be privatizing the infrastructure to benefit Halliburton and Bechtel, and we will still be pulling the strings on a puppet government.

If you think THAT will result in peace in Iraq, then go ahead and vote Kerry. Just don't be surprised when the coffins start coming back faster and faster...


Remember Viet-nam. :nuke:

[Tinoire]

47. 50% of which voters? The Flag-waving, war-loving

Republicans who are comfy with the environment and abortion? Reagan Democrats? Elusive swing voters?

[salonghorn70]

24. OK, I'll Play

So the original question is, "if Kerry loses in 2004, will Dean have a chance in 2008?" I'm not so sure that Clinton really wants to run for President. If she does, then certainly 2008 will be the year. She would be the front runner. Edwards will also run. Richardson will run. Dean? I think he will probably run. He will have small but noisy support mostly from those who supported him in 2004 and who will not like Clinton's middle of the road DLC- type campaign. Most Democratic voters will remember 2004 and he will have trouble moving beyond that group. Who will I support? I will like Clinton's DLC message and believe that it will do well in the general election. BUT, I'm not convinced that most American voters want the Clintons in the White House again. Not because of their politics. But they will remember what Bill did.

[saracat]

62. By most intrepetations on this thread

Clinton and I mean both of them , would also classify as Bush lite.I agree with Kerry.Stop with the labels.Forget 2008. Either Kerry wins or there is no USA. One Scotus apointment away from obliviation.

[wyldwolf]

26. Bush lite?

Kerry? How so?


doubles, show us how that statement qualifies one as "bush lite."

And Dean? He is Bush lite as well if we're allowed to use a liberal measuring stick.

[MoonRiver]

36. No Dem has a chance if that happens.

Paperless voting machines run by rightwing thugs will make sure the fascist theocracy is protected forevermore. At that point the only thing that might bring this country back into civilization will be an international action against US.

Ergo: VOTE KERRY!

[LandOLincoln]

43. No.

[TreasonousBastard]

44. Only if anyone...

remembers who he is. Which is doubtful.

Why worry about '08 when we have this fight on our hands this year?

Or is it, once again, all about Dean and not about winning the Presidency?

[Endangered Specie]

45. WHAT 2008 election? If 2004 goes to Bush... best you can hope for...

is an election by 3004.

[w4rma]

46. I don't care one whit about 2008, at this point. (nt)

[tritsofme]

49. If Mondale looses '84 will Hart have a chance in '88?

[DFLforever]

50. Yes, Dean may be the only one with a chance

because he'll have a well-supported organization, DFA 2.0 , which will oppose Bush and fight his policies while the Democratic party and its leadership will roll over and play dead, and the DLC will re-start the program we've gotten so used to - Bush Enablement, Term 2.

[DaveSZ]

56. If Kerry fails

America won't have another chance.

The Fundies will take over the US Supreme Court, and freedom and liberty will be lost.

[DaveSZ]

57. Ban this prick

(Oakey)

[wyldwolf]

60. the next time you peer into your crystal ball...

... check this week's lottery numbers for me, ok?

[Finch]

61. If Dean got nominated I'd vote third party...

...well I'd consider it... the guy is a god dame liability... he wont ever win anything nationally... he could have stuck with his moderate views and beliefs, but he saw that he could make quick head way by pandering to the base, he didn't have the courage of liberals like Wellstone or Feingold or moderates like Bayh or Lieberman to stand by his beliefs no matter what the country of the base thought... he thought that he could just pander to the base and then win and then pander to the electorate and win... the guy has no ideological scruples, in the end he was getting to be so left-wing and removed from his solid record in VT is was laughable...

You want a progressive candidate in 2008... Russ Feingold is your man!... he has something Dean never did strength of conviction... if Feingold ran I have to say I'd be tempted simply because i respect him so much, but in the end I would probably go for a more moderate candidate like Bayh or Rendell...

But not Dean... unless you really want to lose... which some here seem to... especially when they come up with there "election winning" policy proposals.... LOL

No if any progressive candidate should run as the Dem's nominee in 2008 it should be Feingold... Run Russ, Run!

[seaglass]

63. I don't see that the path that he's taking now would bring

him any closer to the skills and experience he would need to be qualified for the job. The farther away he gets from elected office, the less likely he is to get back in the running.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snivi Yllom]

65. is it too late for Dean to replace Kerry?

I could be soooooo much more excited about the election.

[mdguss]

66. What do you want him

If the he wins, the terrorists will too? Come on people, give me a break. It's fucking April, and the real show doesn't begin to Labor Day. Get a clue. Kerry is right to make the continue the fight on the terrorists.

Like it or not, there are terrorists (Al Qaeda, Hammas, and various other groups among them) that murder thousands of innocent people. They will be captured (or killed) and brought to justice under a Bush or Kerry administration. The difference: Kerry will do it in a way that doesn't offend the international community. Because Kerry's plan will enable more countries to participate in our shared mission of capturing terrorists, my guess is it'll take less time for Kerry to dismantle networks of murderers otherwise known as terrorists.

As for Dean, he's finished. He had it this year, and he blew it. The major meltdown will prevent him from ever having a serious shot at the nomination in the future. There won't be a 2008 because Kerry is going to win. But if Kerry were to lose, 2008 is a race between Hillary Clinton, Al Gore and whoever Kerry's VP pick is.

[Cocoa]

67. Deaniacs, don't work for Kerry!

so your beloved Dean gets a chance in 2008!

Dean supporters aren't that stupid. They want Kerry to win.

[mzmolly]

68. Indeed. I don't know that Dean would run in 08 if Kerry loses...

And there is no way I would contribute to a Bush win PERIOD.

Dean himself will be voting for Kerry... so will I.

[BinkieGirl]

70. Stupid, but not *that* stupid?

I would suspect you could find Clark, Edwards, Sharpton, etc....supporters who are die hard and want only their first choice candidate to win.

I don't want B*sh. I'm not *that* stupid either.

[Cocoa]

71. very very few

I guess the people that want Bush to win have to exploit every possibility, right? They think the Deaniacs are the best bet, but I think they're wasting their time.

[mzmolly]

69. I miss Dean too doubles. But I will be doing as he suggests - voting

for John Kerry.

[mndemocrat_29]

73. Kerry will be running for reelection in 2008

So Dean will either be running for the Senate in 2006 (if Jim Jeffords retires), be in Kerry's Cabinet, or be a retired politician.