Hillary Donors THREATENING the DNC...who wudda thunk?

[gaiilonfong]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/15/us/politics/15donate.html?ei=5065&en=68bdcd72f717cb5f&ex=1206158400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print


They are threatening to stop giving money to our party unless Hillary gets her way. Any questions that the Clintons will drag the dems over the cliff are now fiunally moot!

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Why should Florida or Michigan donors

give money to an entity trying to disenfranchise them?

[bvar22]

39. UMMMM...I know..I know!

The Florida and Michigan Democrats should continue to support the Democratic Party because they will benefit under a Democratic administration.
Threatening to hurt the Democratic Party because their "girl" is losing IS worse than just plain STUPID. It IS helping the Republicans.....like endorsing McCain.


Their "girl" WILL lose the nomination....revote ot not.


SEE! I got it right!

[MonkeyFunk]

42. Even if they're disenfranchised?

That's nonsensical.

Let 'em give their money to individual candidates - not the DNC.

[roguevalley]

43. why didn't florida and michigan follow the rules like the other 48?

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Because they wanted

to break the stranglehold that Iowa and New Hampshire have in the primaries. A year ago, 99% of DUers would've supported breaking that stranglehold, too.

But the fact is, nobody was harmed by them moving the date. Iowa, New Hampshire, SC and NE got their way. Disenfranchising two big states over this is just a pissing contest between the DNC and the state parties.

It will have to be resolved. The current situation cannot continue into the convention - it would be electoral suicide.

[krkaufman]

52. Actually, it's a pissing match between Florida & Michigan ...

... and the DNC and the other 48 states plus Guam, Puerto Rico, Dems Abroad, etc... who stuck with the agreed-upon primary schedule. And most of the pissing seems to be coming from just a few Florida politicians.

Florida's and Michigan's motives for moving their primaries are not altogether altruistic, certainly not to the degree that many proclaim. You can literally bank on the fact that moving their primaries forward had as much to do with wanting a chunk of the political advertising cash as anything else.

[MagickMuffin]

56. They should have followed the rules, and ask to change them at the 08 convention

That's how it's suppose to work. Once at the convention they could have used their concerns about moving up their primaries.
They shouldn't have broken the rules to break the stranglehold.

The fact is they harmed themselves by breaking the rules, they harmed the party, they harmed the voters, they harmed the candidates. The harm has been done because they could not wait until the convention to get the rules changed.

Here are some questions for you:

What if every state decided "Hey let's move our primary to whenever we want, let's ignore the party rules, who needs them."

How would that work out for the party?.?.?

Don't you think that would send the wrong message, that it doesn't matter that there are rules put in place for a reason?.?.?

Wouldn't it make the party irrelevant if no one followed party rules?.?.?

Isn't that part of the reason we have a convention to put forth resolutions to make the changes within the party that people think need changing?.?.?

To change the stranglehold one must not strike out alone, when one does more people will suffer the consequences.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. Then it's the DNCs job to negotiate

a primary system that accommodates the needs of all the states, not just Iowa and New Hampshire.

A blind adherence to arbitrary and draconian rules at the expense of the general election is mind-numbingly stupid.

[MagickMuffin]

63. The DNC has stated that those states that VIOLATED party rules can address the convention

He has also stated if the states and the campaigns can work out a solution before the convention then he is willing to work with them.

I really don't think those two states would just sit it out in November. Their vote is their voice. If they choose to sit it out, then they are incredibly stupid.

As I stated in another post if Texas had moved up our primary and our votes were not counted, I would still show up to vote come November. That's how much I believe in the voting process.

Perhaps at the convention we can put forth a resolution to do primaries differently. I'm all for finding a better solution. But to try and change the rules after the game has started is out of bounds.

Consider for a moment if sports teams agreed to a set of rules and then decided after the game started that they didn't want to play by the agreed upon rules.

Don't you think that that would create chaos and not be an effective way to score points, if anyone could just play by whatever set of rules they determine as being fair?.?.?

Wouldn't the other team and their fans think that the system was being rigged in favor of the new rules not agreed upon?.?.?

Let the politicians who wanted to game and or rig the system pay for it. Since they are the ones who decided to game and or rig the system to begin with, they knew the RULES, before they CHANGED THE RULES.

They are to blame after all.

[MonkeyFunk]

64. The penalty for breaking the "rule"

was disproportionate to the offense. Nobody was harmed by this - Iowa and New Hampshire changed their dates. Once they did that, the penalty should've been eliminated, and a real effort made to come up with a reasonable primary schedule for 2012 that everyone can accept.

But again, it doesn't matter who's responsible or who's at fault - it HAS to be addressed. If enforcing the rule guarantees a loss in the general election, then fuck the rule.

[RazBerryBeret]

48. the Democratic party isn't to blame

for the disenfranchisement...

the rules were clearly laid out, if you move up your primary, your vote won't count.
the states chose to move up the primary....they have to accept the outcome.
I know in FL the vote included paper ballots, which was desired by most, and to get them they had to vote for the early primary.
but this isn't the fault of the party.

[Nedsdag]

49. "Disenfranchising" rich people.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[AZ Criminal JD]

65. Are you saying that people above a certain income level shouldn't be allowed to vote?

What is the that level? If they are not entitled to vote then quit complaining if they don't send money your way.

[spotbird]

53. Good point

There shouldn't be rules in the primary. Every state should be able to vote whenever it wants. If they don't like the results, they should be allowed to vote as many times as they want.

Otherwise, they have no reason to support the Party.

[tomreedtoon]

66. There IS no Florida Democratic Party...you IDIOTS!

There is an organization run by the Republicans that CLAIMS to be the Florida Party, but has been doing the will of the Bushies for the last ten years. That is why they betrayed the party rules they agreed to, and thus lost their delegates.

How many times do I have to tell you idiots! There is no Florida Democratic Party. THERE IS NO FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY! Do I have to tattoo this to your foreheads backwards, so you can read it when you look in the mirror?

Next lesson: There is no liberal newspaper that is published in Florida.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Why should Florida or Michigan donors

give money to an entity trying to disenfranchise them?

[gaiilonfong]

4. 2 different subjects

They knew damn well about the rules...this is ALL about that megalomaniac Hillary and the DLC......

NO SALE

they are doing this as a threat....just like the ReTHUGlicans and karl Rove do to thweir party....
Progressives should be different...Oh my bad...Hillary is not a progressive, she is rready on day one like John McBush...so I guess the threats make sense

[MonkeyFunk]

5. How is it thuggish to not donate to something?

And if Hillary's not progressive, neither is Obama - there's hardly a dime's worth of policy difference between them.

[Seeker30]

10. 2 different subjects?

That IS the subject...

“If you’re not going to count my vote, I’m not going to give you my money,” said Mr. Cejas, who was the United States ambassador to Belgium from 1998 to 2001.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. How is it thuggish?

If they feel disenfranchised, of course they'll withhold money.

You think that's bad? Wait until the voters without their votes in November. Then we'll see how useful Howard Dean's stubborn intransigence is.

[loudsue]

32. Howard Dean is NOT the stubborn one. It's the Michigan & Florida

Dem party officials who CHOSE NOT TO ABIDE BY THE RULES (LAW) OF THEIR OWN PARTY.

The courts have already said that the Dem party (Dean) is NOT to blame. It's the ones who chose to BREAK THE RULES that are to blame.

If you break the law, you're a felon, and don't get to vote.

If you break the RULES, you don't get to vote.

They should look to their own STATE party leadership, NOT the NATIONAL (DNC) party leadership, for the guilty ones.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. The rule was draconian

and arbitrary. Nobody was hurt - Iowa and New Hampshire got their precious first shot at voting.

It was Republicans in 2000 that insisted on a blind adherence to arbitrary and petty rules - and I thought they were wrong, too.

Counting the votes and having the votes count is more important than arbitrary, petty rules.

[loudsue]

40. Then they should be changed sometime that is NOT in the middle

of a primary season. North Carolina doesn't vote until May. We are waiting. Why in the hell can't Michigan & Florida?

You're acting like it's ok for people to break in line whenever & where ever they so please. It's just not ok.

:kick:

[MonkeyFunk]

41. Who was hurt by them changing their date?

New Hampshire and Iowa, along with SC and NE got their special position.

The "rule" isn't based on fairness - it's based on the DNC trying to throw their weight around to protect two tiny states that want to maintain their dominant position.

But it doesn't matter how it came about - NOT resolving it is unthinkable. We can't throw away two large states in the general election.

[Hawkeye-X]

50. Nebraska voted early?

Last i checked, they voted outside the Feb 5th schedule. Nevada was the inside of the Feb 5th schedule.

Hawkeye-X

[MonkeyFunk]

59. Sorry, NV

My mistake.

[MagickMuffin]

57. You keep implying no one was hurt, yet a lot of people were hurt by this tactic

of moving up their primaries. They are the ones to blame for disenfranchising the voters in their states.

Texas considered moving up their primary, but we didn't because it WAS against the rules. They knew that OUR votes would not have counted.

So, the outrage should be directed at the state parties for BREAKING THE RULES.

[MonkeyFunk]

60. I don't care whose fault it was

that was last summer. Now we're faced with a serious problem that needs to be resolved ASAP.

[foxer]

46. Don't you know, it's all about them!

[krkaufman]

54. What about those voters who didn't vote in Florida and Michigan ...

... because they were told that their primaries wouldn't count. Would they be disenfranchised by including results that weren't supposed to count?

The only process that wouldn't disenfranchise voters would be conducting new primaries or caucuses, as the DNC has always stated as a solution.

[dkf]

3. Thuggish behavior. Very Hillary.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. Not donating is thuggish?

Then I must be a huge thug - there are tons of organizations I don't donate to.

[dkf]

11. They think they can buy the vote.

Give Hillary the nomination or they want their money back.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. I don't see how it's thuggish

to not contribute to an entity you feel is doing you harm.

[dkf]

17. They already contributed. They know the DNC doesn't have money.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. So they should be forced to donate?

[dkf]

29. Halloo they already donated.

[NDambi]

33. No surprise there..Hilda will do anything to win...

scummy rummy as they say..

[Catherina]

6. Oh Gawd. Please return their money to them

Drop Hillary like the burnt toast she is and there'll be plenty more money rolling in from new people who can't stand the Old Guard. It's not like she was bringing in astounding sums anyway.

How vile and thuggish but not surprising.

[rug]

7. Balances out the Obama supporters threatening the DNC.

[mattclearing]

9. The DNC will do better with Obama backers anyway.

Dean and Obama have proven that the netroots are where the real money is at. The Clinton bundlers can go fuck themselves.

[JTFrog]

12. If Obama wins, who is he endebted to for putting him there? Me?

And over a million others who donated to him?

I can live with that.

Hillary... Not so much.

[jefferson_dem]

13. Fine.

Go away Hillary and take your thuggish crybabies with you. The Party will be better without you.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. That must be the Obama-created talking point for the day-

that it's somehow "thuggish" to not donate to a group that is doing you harm.

Am I a thug for not donating to Focus on the Family? What a ridiculous word to use.

[jefferson_dem]

22. They are thugs.

Political leaders in FL and MI broke the rules. They knew the consequences but did it anyway. Now the DNC wants to enforce those rules, which is only fair to the states that didn't cut in line and the national Party itself. So Hillary calls on her henchmen to pay the DNC a little "seat them or else" visit. This is a disgusting thuggish tactic indeed.

I propose everyone withhold contributions to the Party if they seat the FL and MI delegations as is.

[MonkeyFunk]

23. Please explain carefully

how it's thuggish to not donate to something.

Do you think they should be forced to donate?

[jefferson_dem]

30. Silly straw man.

Of course, people may or may not contribute dollars to whatever and whomever they choose.

When supporters of a particular cause or organization threaten to withhold contributions in order to leverage non-enforcement of the rules - rules that benefit the cause or organization as a whole - we call them thugs. The label fits.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. I can't believe it's come to this.

[From The Left]

19. Hillary Clinton is like a Child Throwing a Temper Tantrum. She's Pathetic

[MonkeyFunk]

25. This isn't about Clinton

it's about donors to the DNC. If they feel disenfranchised, why should they donate?

I've heard countless people here say they wouldn't donate to the DNC, the DSCC and the DCCC because they were displeased with democratic leaders in congress. Are they "thugs" for not donating?

[susankh4]

20. I stopped donating a while ago.

Waiting for them to get their act together and stop the discrimination.

The deliberate handicapping of one candidate in this race is something I may never forgive them for. Either they attempt to right it or they will never see another cent from me.

[davidpdx]

21. Ferraro said as well she won't raise money for Obama

if he is the nominee because of the accusations against her about her statements.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. Nope

she said the opposite. But never let the truth get in the way of a good lie.

[intaglio]

26. So now they try blackmail

but curiously I doubt whether these same donors will withold money from the Florida Dems because they were the ones who cocked it up first.

Cejas owns a healthcare company, is a "multi-millionaire" and there seems to be some doubt about his qualifications to be Ambassador to Belgium. He seems to be active in the "anti-Castro" community and, according to a report from Time http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,985376,00.html?promoid=googlep

Four years ago, senior State Department diplomats hoped Clinton would breathe fresh air into U.S.-Cuban relations. Miami's fiercely anti-Castro Cuban-American community had long blocked any thaw, though the Pentagon had concluded that Havana posed no threat to the region, and Washington had made peace with almost all its cold war enemies. But half a dozen Cuban-American Democrats who raised huge sums for Clinton in 1992 convinced the new President he could win Florida in '96 if he became even more anti-Castro than Ronald Reagan or George Bush had been.

Senior Clinton aides call the cabal the "core group." It includes Maria Victoria Arias, a Miami lawyer married to Hugh Rodham, the First Lady's brother; and wealthy businessman Paul Cejas, who occasionally stays overnight at the White House. Arias telephones Hillary frequently and often sends Clinton clippings from Florida newspapers. In regular meetings at the Colonnade Hotel in Coral Gables or at Little Havana's Versailles Restaurant, the core group plans strategy and prepares appeals, which are sent by way of private notes to Clinton's top political aides. "When an issue comes up, we try to get a consensus and present a united front," says core-group member Simon Ferro, a Miami Democratic activist.

Christopher Korge is a lawyer and "Property Developer" He has been mired in scandal about Miami International Airport from a report by Granma

/snip
the company privately agreed to give Korge 10 percent of its profits at MIA -- a laughably obscene fee for ''political consulting.'' But that wasn't all. To help Host win the concessions ontract, a bunch of Korge's buddies formed a ''disadvantaged business enterprise'' called World Wide /Concessions, ostensibly to be minority participants.

The group was supposed to open and manage eight restaurants, and during the first year MIA reported an impressive $12.3 million in sales. As it turned out, the reports were bogus. Not a single restaurant had yet opened.

Later, it was revealed that Host quietly agreed to pay $33,225 a month to the so-called minority group, so that Host itself could keep running the food concessions.

There is a lot more at http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/marzo/mar9/heaasen.html

[Texas Hill Country]

27. I dont blame the FL peeps for wanting their money back... if you dont count my vote...

why should i give you money?

[From The Left]

31. I Think Hillary Should Go Jump Off a Cliff

[NDambi]

34. with or without a parachute...???? lol

[blogslut]

35. Time for another donation to the DNC for me

:)

[Eurobabe]

37. Bunch of fucking babies

just like their candidate. Call a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHBULANCE.

[Scurrilous]

38. Kick

:kick:

[IndianaGreen]

44. This is how Hillary will run the government if she becomes President

by using storm trooper tactics to silence her critics on the Left and Right, and smash all opposition to her agenda of personal aggrandizement.

[mod mom]

47. We should stand up to all bullies (not just *) and take our country back!

[Cha]

51. Fuck 'em and Fuck their

extortionist $$$$$$.

[Yurovsky]

61. Damn straight ...

I'm sick and tired of the monied corporate bastards running the GOP and the Clinton's party. It's time to take the Democratic party back, and this year we can do it. You don't need one smug land-developer (Korge the eco-rapist) threatening to take his toys and go home... we have strength in numbers and can do without the corporate bullshit.

[AZBlue]

55. She and her supporters should just come clean and join the GOP once and for all!!!

[Cha]

68. Then they wouldn't have the cloak of

the Democratic Party as their cover and they'd have to grapple with the bushites for power. As it is, they have all these people fooled into thinking they actually want to do some good instead of stuffing their own coffers.

[kwenu]

62. Hillary!! Release Your TAX RETURNS!!!!!

[anigbrowl]

67. Fuck 'em. Grassroots fundraising and public financing

By taking his message straight to the Internet, Obama has won the fundraising race so far this year, and crushed McCain - you should se the GOP emails begging for funds, they're laughably pathetic. I think if we nominate Obama the Dems can easily win the White House and increase our congressional majority with out these fairweather friends.