Which is more damaging to electability: "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" or PastorGate?

[BzaDem]

[leftofcool]

1. I think Pastorgate

Kerry had evidence to refute SBVT he just didn't use it loud enough. Obama has already said "words matter." This one isn't going to be easy to overcome

[scheming daemons]

3. "words matter".... true.... but these weren't OBAMA's words.....

[leftofcool]

5. I realize that

the problem is since words matter to Obama, he will not be able to come back and say, "these are just words and dont mean anything."

[Iceburg]

65. Why did Obama lap it up for 20 years with Wright, 17 years with REzko?

Severely impaired judgment.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. Pastor-Gate because it's true and not manufactured lies

[scheming daemons]

4. If Jeremiah Wright were the nominee, you'd have a point....

...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. do you care wether we win the WH or not?

[anigbrowl]

20. Yes. That doesn't mean you're right.

You think that because you care a lot it means your opinion is valid. I don't care for your bully tactics.

[scheming daemons]

29. Yes... that's why I want Obama to be the nominee... so we CAN win....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

56. what we want and what the reality is are two very different things

[Kittycat]

6. Tax Returns & Library Donor Lists?

[EFerrari]

27. Maybe someone can come up with an old CostCo card or

a cable installation invoice.

[oasis]

40. Here we go with the "tax' business.

:boring: Wake me and the voters of Pennsylvania when you have something.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Neither.

It's "I have the experience, and Senator McCain has the experience". And possibly the "present votes".

Back in '04 the Republicans spent millions on those Swift Boat ads but in all the people I spoke with about the election (probably thousands between canvassing and everyday conversation) the Swift Boat crap came up exactly twice. Both times from wingnut dumbfucks who were never going to vote for John Kerry anyway. The issue that came up over and over, particularly from undecided voters, was the "flip flop". They couldn't be sure that John Kerry would be decisive enough.

Guess where that flip-flop meme came from? Kerry's Democratic primary rival. This is why the GOP has their famous 11th Commandment and we would do well to adopt it. I'm sure the Swifties did some harm but at least they had to come up with it on their own and pay through the nose for it. We handed them the flip-flop thing for free.

[ContinentalOp]

19. Great post!

[EFerrari]

36. Yep. Thanks, Hillary, for pretanking our nominee.

[oasis]

43. Nobody forced Obama to jump into the race unqualified and unprepared. He

thought he could conjure up a history of experience as he went along. A serious blunder on his part.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. So sayeth a supporter of the candidate who is losing the primary to him.

Talk about being "unprepared"!

[oasis]

48. Hill didn't prepare well for the primaries. Who knew what backstabbers lurked in her own party?

Obama is unprepared for the GOP onslaught in the general. But that's his problem.

[EFerrari]

50. Where backstabbers = other candidates?

And Obama, of long habit, is well prepared for the GOP. We all are.

[oasis]

51. Kerry, Geffen, Rep. George Lewis.....to name a few.(eom)

[blm]

61. HOW? How is that you DARE accuse THEM of backstabbingh when Clintons ESPECIALLY stabbed Kerry

repeatedly in the back and have been since they came into office on the coattails of HIS INVESTIGATIONS that were proving fatal to GHWBush's presidency.

Clintons stabbed Kerry in the back on his years of investigation and throughout his campaign.

YOU KNOW IT - you just decided to devote yourself to the BIGGEST BACKSTABBERS the DEm party has ever had. No wonder they side with Lieberman. Lee Hamilton and John Breaux and Joe Lieberman are PIKERS in protecting BushInc when compared to the Clinto0ns.

[dchill]

53. Hill's plan, such as it was, ended on Feb 5th...

when she was to have been swept into the nomination. Since then, it's been lie & smear off the cuff. She is a contortionist stabbing herself in the back. As far as I know.

[oasis]

55. "lie and smear"?? Like you said "as far as you know".

:eyes:

[blm]

57. WHO backstabbed Hillary, oasis? Name them.

Did ANY Dem backstab Clintons like this?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Or like this?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Or like this?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Or like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

And who backstabbed the American people and our historic record and the honest Democrats who worked for years to uncover corruption of BushInc and when BushInc was at its weakest and most exposed by Jan 1993?

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[dchill]

64. Yeah! Who...?

Right on!

[EFerrari]

49. We disagree, my friend. He's handily waged the better campaign.

Looks like he's something of a leader.

[oasis]

54. Nobody disputing that he's a leader. Question is: Is he the best to lead America back to

economic stability?

[blm]

62. Will he coverup crimes of the biggest financial institutions and PRETEND the economy needed

it the way Bill did on BCCI?

Gee - you think BCCI didn't come back and hurt this country A MILLION TIMES WORSE than a temporary slowdown in the early 90s?

[oasis]

67. Hi BLM, still beating that dead horse. I gotta give you credit for persistence.

:hi:

[blm]

69. That dead horse just happened to rear up when those jets flew into the WTC, didn't it?

.

[Alhena]

8. Pastorgate by far. I dislike Hillary but it's going to be up to her to beat McCain

It will be good to see her using her ruthless techniques on Republicans for a change.

[ProSense]

13. Why do you have an Obama avatar? This is a faux scandal.

Saying Wright's comment (an opinion by one man) is greater that SVBT lies (an orchestrated smear by a well-funded group) is completely delusional!

[Alhena]

22. Because I've been supporting him for the last year. I'm not stupid though. Middle America

is going to absolutely freak over this. Wake up.

[scheming daemons]

31. Hannity has been feeding this to 'middle america' for months.... they haven't freaked yet....

...the only 'freaking' going on is the faux outrage by about 20 people on DU.

[BadgerLaw2010]

35. You assume that people who aren't already hardcore Republicans listen to Hannity.

[BadgerLaw2010]

25. "Faux" scandal that loses you at least five states you kinda have to win.

WI, IA, MI, OH, PA. You can kiss all of them goodbye with stuff like this. If you think you won't, you are smoking dope.

[scheming daemons]

33. Get a perspective.... election in 8 months out....

this won't change the dynamic in those states at all.

[BadgerLaw2010]

39. Oh really.You're going to win those states with this racial crap out there?

You might want to look at the demographics of those states, and how much you normally win (or lose) them by.

[ProSense]

34. "If you think you won't, you are smoking dope." No smoking dope is anyone who thinks

this faux scandal comes anywhere near the damage Ferraro has done to Hillary's campaign.

Wingnuts will use anything, even if they have to make it up, to attack the Dem nominee. Dems aren't going after the wingnut vote, and voters aren't going to make their decision based on Wright's comment.

[EFerrari]

41. "If you loved the kindergarten essay and you caught the young dope dealer,

you'll go NUTZ over the crazy uncle! Coming soon from the Clinton Campaign office near you!"

Pathetic. People want to know how to keep their homes and how to tend to their sick and how to grow their businesses. They don't care about this crap.

But, I guess if Clinton manages to suppress the vote from sheer disgust, her losses won't be so screamingly embarrassing.

[TexasLady]

63. well said.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

9. Uh-oh. Cue the posters complaining about overusing "-gate". nt

[skipos]

11. The fact that Obama

has won more primaries, more caucuses, more red states, more blue states, more swings states, more pledged delegates and more votes than Clinton has got her supporters a bit down, eh? Don't worry, Hillary will do everything she can to make sure that if she is not the nominee, McCain will be President. You and Hillary should just think happy thoughts about what you hope "pastorgate" accomplishes.

[BzaDem]

16. I'm sorry that being an Obamabot completely blinds you to the issue of electability.

[EFerrari]

28. This coming from someone who believes Hillary is electable.

lol

[BzaDem]

30. If you want to just "lol", then I have nothing to say to you.

[EFerrari]

32. You had nothing in the first place.

Knock yourself out. This isn't going anywhere.

[Occam Bandage]

12. Too early to tell at this point, but both are bad.

[Iceburg]

66. It will be hard to spin this /nt

[golddigger]

14. PastorGate!

[BadgerLaw2010]

15. Pastorgate, easily. It's true and its nasty. Kerry just didn't bother going after SBVT.

Might have been a good idea to sue them before you lost, as opposed to after, yes?

This is factually correct, so there's not much you can do with it. And if you think it won't cause Obama to lose white votes, you are kidding yourself.

[EFerrari]

17. You people are hilarious. Americans don't know and don't care

about the last smear from the Clinton campaign of horror.

[BadgerLaw2010]

23. How is it a smear when it is raw statements from the guy in question?

If you think he didn't say that stuff, you are smoking more dope than is normally passed around in the Twoofer Dungeon.

[EFerrari]

24. Smear , like racism, is context and the Clinton campaign knows that.

The man is retired. Who are you going to drag out next, you've already burned through the kindergarten teacher. Maybe there's an outlying old dentist or paper boy still available.

[scheming daemons]

37. Because the "guy in question" is A) not the candidate and B) not working on the campaign

This would be poison if Obama said it.

[JCMach1]

18. Pastorgate- He will lose the GE in a landslide if he is the nominee now

[scheming daemons]

38. LOL.... ok.... Hannity and Co. have been talking about this for weeks, and it hasn't affected a...

...damn thing.

You people are acting like this just broke today.

[anigbrowl]

21. This whole thread is a masochistic masturbation fantasy

You don't want to hear what I think of most of the people posting in it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. Pastorgate by far

[Iceburg]

42. PastorGate by orders of magnitude. Anyone seeing these films will be rightfully appalled./nt

[wileedog]

44. Can I answer "The Clinton Campaign?" nt

[dchill]

45. So far, it's SBVFT...

PastorGate has bigger legs (and ankles) here than anywhere else.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

58. ABC News and MSNBC are of two legs so far today and this is NOT......

a SBVFT manufactured lies Rev Wright's words are true

[Lucinda]

59. I didn't know MSNBC had picked it up. Online or on air?

[Cha]

46. What's more obvious..

you or hilary?

[earthlover]

52. I thought the hillary folks were saying Obama was a Muslim...do Muslims have pastors?

Hillary is respectful towards the religious beliefs of others. As far as i know.

[Scurrilous]

60. I vote for FakeOutrageGate.

:thumbsup:

[IndianaJones]

68. white people hate to hear how much they suck from minorities. nt.

[GoldieAZ49]

70. especially when they didn't do anything but try to raise their family and survive

economically themselves.

They don't hate others, or blame others for their struggles, and love this country enough to proudly sing God Bless America


No, they will not be interested in this follower of Wright being anywhere near the White House

[IndianaJones]

71. yeah...it sucks to be white. nt.

[zulchzulu]

72. OK, first they will say he's a Muslim...then they will say he's a Christian...

Just buy one and go hide your head in the sand, ferchrissakes...

[Vinca]

73. Neither. It's idiots who post stupid things that will eventually

cause the election of John McCain as POTUS.